I run into so many people who are confident that they have risen above the belief in a god or the need to participate in organized religion, but who are quite happy to attribute intentionality to the "Universe", and perform all kinds of superstitious rituals. Instead of referring to "God's will" they will say things like "The universe must not have wanted me to do this, because it just isn't happening in spite of my efforts". How is this not just a different name for god?
I have no problem with using 'god' or 'the universe' as metaphor for the collective forces beyond my control, but when we cross that line into believing that they literally have conscious intentions for us we are right smack center in supernatural territory, regardless of which name we use.
(seems to me - what think ye?)
I understand that humans have a strong propensity to assign agency to things that happen. I strive to be as logical as possible; but, I admit, there are times when it almost seems that something was "meant to be" on some cosmic level. However, when I have these brief moments, I always walk away from that ledge; and, in the end, I find more comfort in knowing things happen as a result of random chance, or natural cause and effect, rather than the idea of some sort of predetermination--whether it be by a god or the universe (which, if given this ability, seems indistinguishable from a god) This understanding makes the good things that happen seem more special--and the bad things more bearable.
Beautifully stated. Thanks.
I have no problem with metaphor — a poetic use of words like "God" and "soul" and so forth — but I don't see evidence for intentionality or conscious agency. I sometimes hear people (always non-physicists) talk about quantum mechanics as though that proves something about a cosmic consciousness or persistence of self beyond death. Even when people have cast off the religion they knew, so often they turn to an energy-based faith to fill the hole left behind. I've never understood that impulse, though, because once I was done with religion it was a huge relief. Things made so much more sense to me when I decoupled my understanding of reality from some sense of mysticism.
I think the universe is utterly indifferent. As others have mentioned, it's only real intention is to follow laws such as those of physics. For example, gravity, magnetism, and the ever continuing expansion of the cosmos. Even then I don't think you can consider that intentional.
Albert Camus stated it best in The Stranger, that the universe is indifferent and you can only hope that in its indifference, it is benign
You have hit the nail square on the head again. Right back into superstition and superstition is superstition, no matter what name you call it by.
How would it be even remotely possible for the Universe to have intention? I'm aware that there are people who do this, but it boggles my mind that they do.
It often seems to me that, given the extraordinary combination of circumstances that are required for live to evolve, it is entirely likely that we are the only intelligent (well, sort of) species in the galaxy. But there are billions upon billions of galaxies. Suppose there is one intelligent species in each? They would evolve independently, with no possibility of ever communicating with each other. Now that seems to me suspiciously like a Plan. Is this the 'intention of the universe'? Oh dear! As an atheist, I don't like that idea much.
The superstitious rituals that are a part of my own tradition, are of the type that have led to scientific breakthroughs.
Call it a potion, or a call it a formula, "potion making" has led to medical breakthroughs and scientific discoveries for the real cures eradicated plagues, and came to be in use later.
It is the religious community today that comes to my doors under the cover of night when they cannot afford their pharmaceutical cures...seeking help for ointments for ringworms or staph infections, or other minor ailments.
An example is toothaches:
There is a "potion" that I use for them that is made up of
1 tbsp coconut oil, 1 tsp salt, 1 tsp turmeric
Brush if you can, swish for 10 minutes if you cant. Rinse with hydrogen peroxide.
The coconut oil - science has discovered that it attacks the harmful bacteria in your mouth.
The salt - science has discovered that it helps to reduce inflammation and swelling in the gums
The turmeric - science has discovered that it is anti-inflammatory and antibacterial, so it kills germs and other micro-organisms that cause gum and tooth problems.
The hydrogen peroxide - science has discovered that it is a disinfecting agent
Repeat every few hours for as long as needed.
With sleep, most folks find relief by morning.
Many times when I create a "potion, I look up the scientific properties of my ingredients before I mix them. (Ask me about my 'cold cure chili-dip' recipe, and the ages known chicken soups)
Before science discovered that these things did all this, it was this knowledge that was held by witches and wizards with no idea as to how it worked, and they ascribed it to deities but they knew that it did.
(I'm not one to invoke deities, or have them stand on their heads while counting to 3 and then singing the star spangled banner, I believe those kinds of things had to have come about from the healers own personal amusements and sense of humor. Much of the chanting that goes on is to help remember a formula....)
Many rituals tend to take on superstitious nature, but, when taken symbolically, and NOT in a literal kind of way, they can create traditions that help us to remember valuable life lessons such as the best times to plant, and when to harvest, and other milestones in our lives. The more hoopla that follows a date, the more likely a person is to mark it into their memories, especially when feasts, gatherings, and merrymaking accompanies it.
I don't personally feel that it is possible for the Universe to have an intention beyond what manifests from the massive collective thought of what we see as creation.
@ Athiest.
That seemed a bit abrasive...
Right? It's just another trip around the sun anyway.
Cancel Memorial Day, and the 4th of July.
We can just mark off the days of history on the calendar, and let it pass.
Let us all keep working, we don't have to create days or times to look forward to.
Who cares if Aunt Martha has just been around the sun 100 times, no big deal, it's just another day...
My traditions don't have to match anyone else's, but I personally enjoy the tradition of having celebrations. For example:
The "Oh Yeay it's Friday," Ritual.
It's finally payday! School is out! Let's pay the bills and go catch a movie! (Or go bowling, or skating, or__ fill_in_the_blank__.)
This was one of my own family's time-honored and beloved childhood traditions that I grew up with and loved enough to try to carry it on into the next generation.
A few weeks of the year came in my own family unit when overtime came.
The tradition was broken.
To compensate, we came home and made homemade ice-cream the next day.
It became a "superstitious ritual," that my own children have passed on and taught their own kids today.
"If overtime happens homemade ice-cream will be required for the appeasement of the lost family time." A superstitious ritual has been born.
Celebration doesn't have to be associated with diety.
Gee... when referring to a god who made all this. I would rather leave the god part out. That's title of a deity that i put up there with one I should bow down to. No.....Thank you.
Well I think they're being fake in an attempt to either gather information on how we think by saying something so hypocritical or manipulate people by saying yea I don't believe in god so hows not god doing.
That’s exactly what it sounds like.
I'm a storyteller. In fact, all of us are. It's why we have the gods, the myths, the legends, hiSTORY, our "stories."
Whether the Universe has intention or not, we do. We may not understand that, or be aware of that, but it's inherent in all we do. Our movies, our T.V. shows, documentaries... As a writer I sit in coffee shops around NYC to write, and very often I will overhear others talking... not because I'm listening, but because they're talking in such a way that they're being heard throughout the room... and it's usually gossip. Something that happened between them and someone else... and guess what? It's a story. The gossiper is the protagonist, the hero, the victim of some offender... the antagonist, and it's a story.
The Universe has, at least in this little backwoods spot, made a way for life to life, and even for that life to express itself. It's very often brutal, but it's just as often beautiful. While we have no idea what the Universe thinks (or doesn't think) about all this, we do know that WE have thoughts.
It's difficult not to anthropomorphize the container that holds us and for now, we're like a puzzle inside of the box. We cannot see the picture from the outside, so all we can do is our best to get the pieces to fit in such a way that can make out the picture as best we can. The odds of some of the things happening to me that have are so astronomical that it "feels like fate." But fate is another story. A fascinating story according to the Greeks. So I tell the story, and I play with the story. As a storyteller, I don't have a lot of options.
I don’t think so. The Universe is chaotic, making life chaotic, without no particular aim of influence on anybody’s life.
The universe does not have 'intention'. We might try to project intention upon it but that's an attempt at anthropomorphism.
There is an intention and that is to evolve. It has been formulated and is observable that evolution has a direction. Over time it gets more complex. Everything is a product of evolution even humans (although right now that is questionable).
However, right now, it seems the universe will come to a period where the only evolution will be motion (outward).
it isn't supernatural if it exists, and we don't know that it doesn't exist. The universe is a system, as far as we can tell, as with any system, it works as a unit, possibly. So if you want to call 'the universe' god, that is viable. It did create us after all. So the question isn't if there is a universe, or god, but if the universe or god is sentient. And that is just a matter of subjectivity. Saying it is or isn't is just claiming your opinion for fact.