Ah, yes. The talk went very well, lots of interest and discussion.
As for AA and the twelve steps, it is certainly true that many people can make it work for them. But that obscures a deeper reality, which is that the anonymity policy and headless structure of AA combine to make it quite resistant to any substantive research to measure its effectiveness, that there has actually been a ton of addiction research in the ensuing decades, virtually none of which AA has incorporated to improve outcomes for participants, and there is longitudinal addiction research showing that most people with chemical addictions move through it and emerge to find eventual sobriety or, even, occasionally, return to limited controlled use; there is NO quantitative research showing AA improves outcomes long-term for people overall. Some die before they get that far. Some keep abusing alcohol or drugs the rest of their lives. But most survive to eventually tire of the destructive dependence and choose instead to eliminate substance us from their lives, regardless of whether or not they subscribed to AA teachings. Great, right? Naturally, no AA alum who has personally enjoyed support from an AA community will accept that observation, because it feels anathema to personal anectdotal experience.
Meanwhile, AA proponents treat AA teachings like gospel, like a precious inviolate recipe for being saved. For some that is sufficient. For others the flavor feels like missionary zeal for converting heathens. It is fine for those who find it helpful to embrace it. The frustration comes in the fact that AA's utter dominance of public discourse....treatment centers and courthouses, for example, requiring their charges to submit to AA participation as the price of being either a patient or court defendant, ....that dominance has blocked out most chance of any other sobriety support resources from ever getting any publicity or accessability to people who could benefit.
Some freethinkers in recovery will simply translate AA teachings into less offensive forms, but its deeply entrenched patterns of vaguely religious faith structure remain, whether in the Huge foundational teaching to "turn to your 'higher power,'" the word "God" appearing 5 times in the 12 steps, the prayer at the end of meetings, or the biblical number 12 defining and labeling the steps themselves. These "little" issues have resulted in many people feeling so uncomfortable that they don't feel welcome and end up discouraged from joining. Now if they could just learn somehow that there are alternative options to support sobriety.

Telling people to "Fuck off" for having a criticism of AA is its own kind of disparagement and bullying, and you don't get to say that and go unchecked. AA is important and helpful for many people, but not for everyone, and just dismissing those people as some kind of troublemakers is invalid.

@MikeInBatonRouge I totally agree with you. There should be more than the one AA method, all the more since faith is sort of required to do the AA stuff.

Thanks, Jack! Terrific article. It encapsulates nicely my whole point of giving the planned talk. I will add this article to my list of references. A little later when I have a small chunk of time, I'll reply a little more in detail about my experience as a treatment professional working with the addict population through a medical/cognitive-behavioral program that was(still is) led by not one, but two practicing Catholics. Can you see a slight problem scenario? I sure can.

@AMGT It's true most of NA's writings come from AA. NA's format is the same as it was when founded in 1953. NA does not suggest you believe in God, only something more powerful than yourself and that it's loving and caring, blah, blah blah. A lot of members are christian and don't understand atheism. I would just tell them that I believe in the universe. Although many are still confused, it gives them something to focus on. There are a lot of zealots in the program and they tend to buy that answer. Congrats on 34 years. I had a slip recently and go to one or two meetings a week just to remind me of what happens if I use. I don't ascribe to most of it, but it helps me stay focused.

Loving and Caring? NO, but there are many things more powerful than me. I believe in spirituality and that it's an inside job. It all depends on how I look at things. I work hard to stay positive and accept that I can only control my actions. Everything is out of my control. In college I minored in philosophy. I learned a lot about the human condition. My favorite branch is stoicism.

Im sorry for misunderstanding the question. .
@AMGT I apologise.

That's why you get a sponsor to work things out for you. You can attach a G to anything you want. There's others out there in AA that can be found to help you deal with your alcoholism. I used the group as my higher power. I went in there pissed off at god and they knew it. This man needs some help and hes found AA to help him. I encourage him to seek out this help and a sponsor. It works when people go in there and not try to be in charge. They go in there and listen. It's said to take what you need and leave the rest. Get a sponsor to work with you. Where else are you suggesting he go. This man needs unity and meetings and people with a drinking problem. This man is looking for hope. I pointed out the agnostic to show him theres something in there pluss I told him to Get a sponsor... so what now?

@AMGT. I apologise for misunderstanding the question.

What I am saying that I went for my husband AA, for myself ALANON and ACOA. It didn't work for me because I couldn't grasp higher power.

Actually, there is a research abstract I came upon a few years ago that points to atheism/agnosticism correlating highly with people dropping out of AA; however, it also shows that for those who stay in it, they report equivalent levels of sobriety maintenance as self-identified religious members.
The talk I am planning I am absolutely not intending to be simply an AA-bashing session. There is absolutely reason for AA to remain an important part of the available addiction recovery support landscape. The issue is only tangentially a question of effectiveness. The most extensive longitudinal study in existence concludes that NO ONE SINGLE APPROACH to addiction recovery is effective for everyone. The problem today is that AA has been for many decades virtually the ONLY approach that anyone hears about. That has to change. BTW, it isn't treatment, technically; it is support, and AA can be an important adjunct or component of a cognitive-behavioral approach to treatment.

Cognitive-behavioral addiction treatment, in simplified terms, basically means that addiction is too complex an issue to be very responsive to simply one treatment approach. Cognitive-behavioral treatment is two-pronged. It means addressing the target behavior--which is problem using--by means of identifying triggers, changing routines & nurturing new habits to replace old destructive ones, and, when possible, changing environment, and strengthening sober support elements in a persons life. That is, in a nutshell, is the behavioral component. AA helps potentially to reinforce much of that component. The second treatment aspect, Cognitive, recognizes that addictive behavior did not come out of nowhere. It developed in response to something, and that something generally is some kind of emotional need that the person finds difficult to assuage and that the addictive behavior provides a feeling of relief from, albeit only temporarily. In short, people's emotional health must be addressed if they are to avoid relapse. What good is being clean if one is still miserable? Again, AA can provide some comfort in community, can help erase a sense of isolation the person feels because one is with others who "get it." Also the 12-steps is a personal examination practice that also helps one become more confident and effective at managing personal emotional life.

All that is potentially quite good. And yet, AA has countless times been undermined by religiosity and participants too eager to push their own faith paradigms on others who are seeking community support and relief from addiction. Agnostic AA groups are a badly needed and much welcome alternative to many of the other AA groups, but because every AA group is essentially independent, there is also wide variation in tone and level of supportiveness one will experience from different groups. I've spent years trying to help individual non-religious people be able to mold the 12-step/AA model into something that they can stomach so that they CAN get benefit from it. It's important. Too bad those who are not religious have to do such mental and semantic gymnastics in order to be beneficiaries of a resource that much of the society sees no problem with pushing as THE only answer to addiction. It is not the only answer, btw. There is also SMART RECOVERY, which is actually more solidly research-based and effective, but almost no one hears about it. Why? Because popular culture, the media, and hospitals and even courts unquestioningly push AA as some sort of gold standard.

Yes, AA has helped many. But how many and how well we will never know, because what passes as "research" is not. It is anecdotal, testimonial, not factual. Those who have obtained and maintained sobriety naturally feel quite protective of the experiences they found helpful. But to attack anyone who questions or criticizes AA as not helpful to them is its own kind of bullying and disparagement. To tell anyone to "fuck off" for critical assessment of AA is just plain beyond the pale. There is a vast population for whom AA has not been helpful. They deserve respect and consideration as much as any of "the faithful" do.