Works for everyone. The best system does not mean everyone is happy. Im not saying capitalism (whatever you mean by capitalism) is the best system but if you suggest cpitalism is bad, what system would be better? Communism and socialism does not make everyone happy, it has caused the deaths of over 150 million people and countless of wars.

@Dark-blue I suggest capitalism has achieved the same without the justification of war.

Neoliberalism is capitalism out of control which certainly doesn’t have the good intentions toward individuals at its heart.

You seem to be propounding a right wing utilitarianism that I am sure Messers Bentham and Mill would be horrified by!

To me Communism is to its core the ideological faith based strife sold as the idea that fairness can be achieved by equalising everything between people.
It comes in many forms, feminism, veganism, cultural marxism, political correctness, socialism, intersectionality and a few more. So yes it exists all around us and its all based on lies of equality.

In regards to social healthcare I think a country has the responsibility to care for its citicens in order for the country to to have any right to enforce the rule of laws on its inhabitants. Hope that makes sense.

@Sticks48
You want me to say the same in regards to you? Tell us, where do that lead? Smh.

@Dark-blue l don't know. Where do it lead?

@Sticks48
If you are on this plattform to engage in character attacks and not respectful debate to find truth, then you are a waste of time.

@Dark-blue You claim to be a progressive and are aginst all of these things progressives stand for. When l hear stupid, l call it out. It is not name calling. It is an assessment based on your statement. If one doesn't wish to be called stupid, one should keep one's stupid ideas to themselves
It is that simple.

@Sticks48
This is a fact: Attacking person instead of argument is really stupid and if you can't stay away from debating person instead of ideas/argument you are really stupid.

@Dark-blue There are some arguments that are not worth my time and energy. There is no arguing something so ludicrous as your statement. Sorry.

I mean what I wrote above.

@Dark-blue Do what do you mean by progressive?

@Geoffrey51
Someone trying to make things better in a general sense. This includes not destroying what is already good. What does "progressive" mean to you?

@Dark-blue Okay thanks.

For me I’ve never used the word other than in the context of progressive rock in late 60s early 70s.

Perhaps the actual definition of the word does not correspond to the actual use if the word to you. Progressive for me means making things better in a general sense.

@Dark-blue

True. But to make things better, you have to make improvements, not just maintain status quo and protect it from ideologies that you view as harmful.

@RoboGraham
I don't see your logic here. If there is nothing to improve you can't make things better thus maintaining status quo is what you do in order to avoid having to rebuild the same thing again.

@Dark-blue

If you believe that there is nothing to improve, how can you be a progressive?

Progress is changing things for the better, if everything is perfect, progress cannot be made. If you see things as being perfect as they are, (there are billions of people who would disagree with you on that) you can only be a defender of the status quo, not a progressive.

@RoboGraham
I explained that above. Why would you stop being a progressive if there is nothing to improve?
In regards to your billions of people example, perfection does not mean everyone is happy if that is not possible.

@Dark-blue

Because if there is nothing to improve, progress cannot be made. If you view things as perfect, you are no progressive.

@RoboGraham
Why would you end being a progressive just bcs there is nothing to improve? Is a carpenter only a carpenter while doing carpenting stuff?

Why would someone not be a progressive if they 'view' things as perfect? Things might be perfect, thus their view.

@Dark-blue

A political ideology is not the same as an occupation. That's a false analogy.

If everything is perfect, there is no more progress to be made. If you think no more progress can be made, you are a defender of the status quo, a moderate. The socialists in your scenario would be the progressives because they are attempting to make improvements.

@Dark-blue So that would include the rise of Nazism in 1930’s Germany and McCarthyism in 1960’s USA?

@RoboGraham
What I say is in my comments not yours. It is not a false analogy. If you disagree, tell us how.

Things arent either or. There us no one that isnt a defender of different status quos. Socialists arent trying to make improvements, they are just trying to impose their ideology onto the world

@RoboGraham, @Geoffrey51
What;"that" are you talking about?

@Dark-blue

What you are saying makes no sense. Earlier you said "Progressive for me means making things better in a general sense. " Then you say that you wouldn't stop being progressive just because there is nothing to improve. How can you improve things if there is nothing to improve? How can you be progressive if you are not attempting to make progress?

Even if you think the changes that socialists are attempting to make aren't improvements, they see them as improvements, I see them as improvements, millions of people around the world see them as improvements. You could argue that any ideological system is not making improvements but rather just trying to impose their ideology on the the world. It's subjective whether or not what they are doing is improving anything. In fact, anyone who is trying to change anything can be called progressive because surely some people view those changes as improvements, as progress. The only people who cannot legitimately call themselves progressives are people like you who believe that everything is already perfect and therefore, no change is necessary.

How is it that you have come to the conclusion that everything is perfect anyway? Do you never look around yourself or see what's happening on the news and think about how there are flaws in the way that humanity is governed?

@RoboGraham
"What you are saying makes no sense. Earlier you said "Progressive for me means making things better in a general sense. " Then you say that you wouldn't stop being progressive just because there is nothing to improve. How can you improve things if there is nothing to improve? How can you be progressive if you are not attempting to make progress?"

It makes perfect sense. Just as you are still an engineer if you arent engineering stuff, you are still a progressive even though you arent improving something. Just bcs there is nothing to improve that does not mean you arent looking for improvements.

@RoboGraham
"Even if you think the changes that socialists are attempting to make aren't improvements, they see them as improvements, I see them as improvements, millions of people around the world see them as improvements. You could argue that any ideological system is not making improvements but rather just trying to impose their ideology on the the world. It's subjective whether or not what they are doing is improving anything. In fact, anyone who is trying to change anything can be called progressive because surely some people view those changes as improvements, as progress."

Objective reality/facts are not subjective. What you think/believe subjectively is irrellevant, only truth is relevant, thus you can't determine who is a progressive on belief.

Socialism has been tried historically and failed every time. Its a belief based on obvious lies and that is why it fails. So socialists are not progressives even if they think/believe what they do is to improve something.

@RoboGraham
"The only people who cannot legitimately call themselves progressives are people like you who believe that everything is already perfect and therefore, no change is necessary."

You don't know me and Ive never argued that everything is perfect and talking about person instead of the argument is always an ad hom attempt in a debate. Attacking a person with an ad hom is an admittance of defeat (amongst other unflattering things about the attacker..) so I urge you to reframe from it or I will just reframe from you.

@RoboGraham
"How is it that you have come to the conclusion that everything is perfect anyway?"

I have never argued that.

"Do you never look around yourself or see what's happening on the news and think about how there are flaws in the way that humanity is governed?"

Why do you think that what you see is imperfection? Are you sure you conclude things in the proper context?
Do you never use critical thinking in regards to your own thoughts??

See how pointless this is? If you wanna attack people instead of searching for truth Im not interested in debating you.

@Dark-blue

If everything is perfect, there can be no more improvements. So why would you still be looking for improvements? DO you actually believe that it is perfect or do you recognize that there is still room for improvement?

An occupation is not an ideology. You can be an engineer without currently engineering anything but if you believe that there is no more progress to be made, you are not a progressive, you are happy with the status quo which makes you a moderate.

DO you seriously think of yourself as progressive? It must be a difference in how the ideology is defined because according to anyone I have ever spoken to and everything I've ever read on this topic, you are far from progressive. You seem to be more of a conservative.

@RoboGraham
You had your chance, enjoy your prison.

No one is forcing you to answer, so if you are afriaid to engage with people, dont.

The kind of ad hom attacks you are engaging in here is also not allowed on this plattform.