"To dismiss religion without being aware of the evidence is to do the same thing so many religious ...

KKGator comments on Jun 7, 2022:

Nice reply. My only difference with you is that I have no respect for religion. None. I only tolerate its existence because that's the law. I think all religion is evil and inherently dangerous.

Fernapple replies on Jun 7, 2022:

@Gwendolyn2018 I would find a middle way between you two, and say that religion did once do good and may even still do so, but its destiny is to fall ever deeper into darkness in the future, and there is no way back. Because religion was always at its strongest when it gave people an alternate voice, to the nation state and the mainstream oppinon. But when most modern states embrace welfare and democracy as their main purposes, ( The US maybe exceptional.) and science is seen as the best source of truth, then what sort of people want an alternate voice to that ?

Yin Yang

LucyLoohoo comments on Jun 5, 2022:

Interesting...did you do this?

Fernapple replies on Jun 6, 2022:

That was my question too.

Right now, I cannot express how much I loathe string trimmers and how I resent my dependence on ...

Fernapple comments on Jun 5, 2022:

Here you go. I don't know if he works for hire, but worth a try. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsfIHiBB6xE

Fernapple replies on Jun 6, 2022:

@Gwendolyn2018 Yes but not nearly as much fun.

Do not respond to a post by FrayedBear.

AnneWimsey comments on Jun 5, 2022:

@Frayed Bear shares a room in a nursing home. Yes he can be dfficult BUT we may all be there one day.......

Fernapple replies on Jun 5, 2022:

That's why I never block anyone, its easy enough to ignore things if you don't like what they post.

Link between religious fundamentalism and brain damage established by scientists [rawstory.com]

xenoview comments on Jun 5, 2022:

Needs more peer review work done on it.

Fernapple replies on Jun 5, 2022:

Any definition of fundamentalism is bound to be subjective, though it uses the Altemeyer & Hunsberger, 1992 test to determine it, which is widely used, though I have no doubt that many on here would take a different view. And of fundamentalism which they define as, rigid fixed thinking, could extend to other areas besides religion, but that is not covered by the questions in the test.

Every day 321 people in the USA are shot.

Fernapple comments on Jun 5, 2022:

Here in the UK it takes about three years to reach your daily number. Just saying.

Fernapple replies on Jun 5, 2022:

@Flyingsaucesir Yep. It seems we average about one person shot, by accident or intent, every five days. You may find this interesting, it is only Wiki but I have no reason to doubt it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Wife: Are you having another sleepless night?

Fernapple comments on Jun 4, 2022:

That sadly can be the cycle of insomnia. Being sleep deprived means you can not cope with small problems so easily, and that you get annoyed more easily by small failings, then you are wound up and that means can't sleep, and so on. Been there bought the tee-shirt.

Fernapple replies on Jun 5, 2022:

@Lilac-JadeCanada Fortunately I was in the pre medication age. Though at two years of age the doctor did prescribe a small glass of Sherry before bed. Since he said that at that age I was ready for alchohol. It may seem a wild idea now, but it was the late fifties, and the parents said that it did help, it was certainly probably less dangerous than strong medication. While it seems I developed a slighly better sleep at the age of about five, so they stopped. But I always wonder about the western habit of putting children to bed in the early evening, and then being surprised that they wake you up in the early morning ?

Wife: Are you having another sleepless night?

Fernapple comments on Jun 4, 2022:

That sadly can be the cycle of insomnia. Being sleep deprived means you can not cope with small problems so easily, and that you get annoyed more easily by small failings, then you are wound up and that means can't sleep, and so on. Been there bought the tee-shirt.

Fernapple replies on Jun 4, 2022:

@Lilac-JadeCanada Yes I never was a good sleeper either. In fact I was so bad as a baby , it almost cost me my life, since my mother, I am told, got so frustrated with me only sleeping two hours a nights, that she, being sleepless herself, tried to throw me out of the upstairs window. Fortunately I was rescued by my grandmother.

Wife: Are you having another sleepless night?

Fernapple comments on Jun 4, 2022:

That sadly can be the cycle of insomnia. Being sleep deprived means you can not cope with small problems so easily, and that you get annoyed more easily by small failings, then you are wound up and that means can't sleep, and so on. Been there bought the tee-shirt.

Fernapple replies on Jun 4, 2022:

@Lilac-JadeCanada I find that growing older helps, you get a better perspective on how unimpotant many of those things are. But for now, a digital hug is sent.

Some prize idiot is trying to convince me that the existence of God is a fact that is self-evidently...

skado comments on Jun 3, 2022:

From a number of perspectives, that would be true. For the pantheists, who regard God to be another word for nature, nature is as self-evidently existing as anything can be, I suppose. For the Christians who believe, as the Bible clearly states, that God is love - if you will acknowledge that love ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 4, 2022:

@xenoview Several beliefs such as religious naturalism make the claim that. If there is no god, then nature fills any gaps left by the absence of god. Such as for example, the need to have something abstract to love and worship, and that in those cases nature then becomes the equivalent of god. Where it goes wrongs is in the failing to appreciate the difference between the word, "equivalent" and the word "is". Since "equivalent" does not mean, "the same as", which the word "is" does. As in. "When my car breaks down, I use my bicycle to go to work." Therefore my bicycle serves the equivalent purpose of a car for that journey, does not mean however, that a bicycle is car. A car comes with a lot more things, such as an engine, windscreen wipers and two extra wheels. God, as a word, by definition comes with a lot of baggage which nature does not, most especially intentions, a hypothesis of mind, and a lot of historical associations with religion. When Spinoza used the idea in the first place, he was probably using the idea of a grand poetic metaphor, not to be taken too literally, to punch a hole in the theist bubble, which was fair enough. However to use it the other way round against Spinoza's intent, trying to create a metaphorical justification for religious apologetics, is just dishonest label switching.

"If you pray for rain long enough, it eventually does fall.

Robecology comments on Jun 3, 2022:

Steve was so subtle...I watched him as a child...one of the first late night talk show hosts.

Fernapple replies on Jun 4, 2022:

Great memes.

Some prize idiot is trying to convince me that the existence of God is a fact that is self-evidently...

skado comments on Jun 3, 2022:

From a number of perspectives, that would be true. For the pantheists, who regard God to be another word for nature, nature is as self-evidently existing as anything can be, I suppose. For the Christians who believe, as the Bible clearly states, that God is love - if you will acknowledge that love ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 3, 2022:

But I have a lot of respect for an honest idiot. A dishonest one who things that you can bring things into being by switching labels, and then claim a discovery, less so.

Why the Golden Rule is overrated.

Fernapple comments on Jun 1, 2022:

Yes, but get this, religion can not solve those problems either. Every single one of those problems is unresolved by religion too, nearly every one of those problems gets different answers from different religions. To solve those problems you need to think, and while the golden rule can not find...

Fernapple replies on Jun 2, 2022:

@Matias The golden rule is of course just a starting point, and perhaps not the best one. I think there are far better ones, but as I said the point about the golden rule is that it is a justification for thinking, and that leads to the other rules. Other rules are extentions of the golden rule, and refinements of it, not contraditions if they are well designed. I think that it would be a silly strawman argument to say that people who believe in the golden rule, do not want any others. But it should not also be forgot, that a lot of societies rules are not made for good moral purposes, because there are also bad moral purposes as well, and they perhaps generate more rules, because from the point of view of those wanting to perpetrate bad morals, then complicating things to muddy the waters and hide the true intent is a good thing in itself. Which is why it is always good to look back at first axioms like the golden rule, when judging other rules. Though as I say the golden rule is not my favourite, and I don't think that it is even a true moral axiom. I think that. "It is preferable to live in a happier world." or "It is better to have social justice at all levels, because I can never know at what level I will be later in my life. " For a couple of examples, and several others are much better starting axioms than the golden rule.

Well 2 things have come to light since yesterday.

Fernapple comments on Jun 2, 2022:

Whats to bet, he comes knocking on your door wanting to borrow stuff ?

Fernapple replies on Jun 2, 2022:

@anglophone Now that would be a good bet, somewhere arround ninety to one in favour of before, I would say.

Why the Golden Rule is overrated.

Julie808 comments on Jun 1, 2022:

I believe the golden rule is just a simple rule of thumb, not the rule that will solve all life's challenges, but a good start. I believe the "glue" you mention is whatever mythos is guiding the thoughts of a culture. If we think of a mythos as something that is believed to be true at the time...

Fernapple replies on Jun 2, 2022:

@Matias No I think that you are getting confused over terms, the mythos would include all the social glue including beliefs, attitudes, values and norms etc, in so far as they are irrational and not supported by empirical evidence. There is no reason why things like human rights, can not be regarded as exactly same as religions from a social glue point of view. You have to think outside of the conventional view that religion, to be religion, ( Though I would prefer to call it belief, because of exactly this confusion.) and social glue, must include the supernatural or be something that once included the supernatural. Ideals like human rights and environmentalism, even more the rule of law, are now more than mature enough to be hallowed by tradition, convention, the arts and ritual. You have to remember that it was exactly those things, tradition, convention, the arts and ritual, etc which created the supernatural gods and the religions based on them, in the first place. So that they are more than able to make gods, even gods worthy of worship, out of things like human rights and environmentalism, and it is observable that they are doing so. To take just environmentalism as one example, it is filled with rituals customs and arts, everything from citizen science, to bird watching, litter picking, collective tree planting, recycling and many more, all of which form rituals and social glue. While it almost certainly now attracts more attention from the arts than all the worlds old religions, and is a major movement within the arts.

Why the Golden Rule is overrated.

Fernapple comments on Jun 1, 2022:

Yes, but get this, religion can not solve those problems either. Every single one of those problems is unresolved by religion too, nearly every one of those problems gets different answers from different religions. To solve those problems you need to think, and while the golden rule can not find...

Fernapple replies on Jun 2, 2022:

@Matias No the golden rule is perfectly usable at a societal level. See my reply to Julie808 above.

Why the Golden Rule is overrated.

Julie808 comments on Jun 1, 2022:

I believe the golden rule is just a simple rule of thumb, not the rule that will solve all life's challenges, but a good start. I believe the "glue" you mention is whatever mythos is guiding the thoughts of a culture. If we think of a mythos as something that is believed to be true at the time...

Fernapple replies on Jun 2, 2022:

I think that people tend to overlook the fact that a new mythos in many ways already exists, in part simply because they assume that it will look like the old mythos, and they fail therefore to see that certain things are in fact a mythos, because they do not look like the old ones. A mythos has to provide the axioms from which we derive our world view. The bare number of basic unsupported assumptions, based in belief, which we need to start with, to develop a logos. And I would hold that we have at least six modern ones already existing in the world, which are, human rights, the democratic mandate, the rule of law, science and belief in empirical truth, universal welfare, and environmentalism. They may deviate slightly from the old mythos pattern in that they are not all of them completely unsupported by empirical evidence, and they do not seem to be supernatural. These are the modern beliefs. (You may even call them religions if you wish, but I think that muddies the waters. ) And I think them more than enough for the purpose of constructing a logos. They also have the advantage that they do not conflict with the modern existing logos, and that they are plain and simple without the over complex inherent and often conflicting baggage of the old religions.

Both are just fairy tales

Fernapple comments on Jun 1, 2022:

Yes but LOTR is a much better read and it makes sense.

Fernapple replies on Jun 1, 2022:

@Garban No Ragast the brown, loves nature and all creatures, but is very hyper active and a bit dim.

Religion without belief — Most Japanese reject religious belief while embracing multiple forms ...

TheMiddleWay comments on Jun 1, 2022:

No god, no religion. Know god, know religion. Calling any practice devoid of gods a religion makes the word religion more widely applicable but proportionally less descriptive. This is why the cultural Jews or the cultural Christians in the USA are not practitioners of a religion since ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 1, 2022:

I usually like to make the distinctions, theist, non theist (Which incudes all forms of supernaturalism.) and cultural religions.

Can you believe it?

ChestRockfield comments on May 31, 2022:

How can they both perpetually drink the booze left by the other? So, I guess I *can't* believe it...

Fernapple replies on Jun 1, 2022:

@ChestRockfield Yep, that is the story I heard. I also heard that they sometimes leave other presents as well, such as badges, small flags and pieces of cake. Sorry though, I can not read the NYT, since there is a bad paywall in my country.

Can you believe it?

ChestRockfield comments on May 31, 2022:

How can they both perpetually drink the booze left by the other? So, I guess I *can't* believe it...

Fernapple replies on Jun 1, 2022:

They leave some for the others every time they visit.

Reading so much on this site, I have become interested in why a culture of fear and hate seems to be...

Mb_Man comments on May 31, 2022:

I think part of the problem with religion (really, any flavor of the such) is the ambiguous roots. This game of telephone has been going on for so long that at this point literally no one can know the intentions as stated. Not that it matters (its always been the work of mortal humans with ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 1, 2022:

Part of the problem is, that religion is effectively in many ways merely the same thing as the. "Proof from authority fallacy." In that it is actually an advantage to it, that the original texts or books have been downgraded to meaningless by the game of telephone, and probably were not very rational to start with. Because that means that everyone can find any interpretation they want in them, and easily find something which matches their preformed prejudices. But then, having found something to match their prejudices, by interpretation, they can then claim the text's or religions authority to support them. In other words. "Because my: holy book, our cultual tradition, the church, the priest, or the word of god, etc. says so. Which is very useful if you want to promote ideas which it is hard to find rational proofs for, or even things which could never gain popular support because most people would find them vile. Is it any wonder that religion is often the main go to for the anti social.

The final last ditch defense of the religious apologist, when all else fails, is often the ...

Matias comments on May 31, 2022:

Every community or society needs some sort of social glue: shared values, myths, stories... A group of individuals who are nothing but selfish *homines oeconomici* will never be able to form a society. I think there are good arguments in favor of the idea that religions served quite well as social...

Fernapple replies on Jun 1, 2022:

Yes you do not need to choose socialism, that was only an example, you could choose any one of a vast number of things but you do need a belief, or a prerequisite as a basis for morality, but that can be something very simple, for example: the golden rule, I think that I would prefer to live in a happier world, it is best to frame society for those living at the bottom since an accident could place anyone there, or appreciation is the true source of happiness, etc.

The final last ditch defense of the religious apologist, when all else fails, is often the ...

Julie808 comments on May 31, 2022:

Well how about rather than a "useful lie" we were to use "useful reality" by using the scientific knowledge we have so far about our cosmos and what supports our existence? Then if people create stories, myths, art, symbols, ceremonies, rituals, philosophy of life, and so on based within our ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 1, 2022:

Yes it is like the old nonsense apologist arguments. " Atheists believe in nothing." And "You can not derive morality logically just from facts, you need religion for morality." But both those make the fundamental mistake of confusing belief with religion. Atheist have to believe some things, we all do, like I have to believe that my eyes do not lie to me, when I am out riding my bike and I see a truck coming towards me. Atheism is not about having no beliefs, just about replacing bad and outdated beliefs with better ones, specifically, or mainly to a degree, just theist beliefs, like the name says. And you do need a belief, or a prerequisite as a basis for morality, but that can be something very simple, like: the golden rule, I think that I would prefer to live in a happier world, it is best to frame society for those living at the bottom since an accident could place anyone there, or appreciation is the true source of happiness, etc. and it is much better to start with a simple one, than to start with one that brings a lot of hampering and often morally questionable extra baggage with it, as traditional religions do.

The final last ditch defense of the religious apologist, when all else fails, is often the ...

Matias comments on May 31, 2022:

Every community or society needs some sort of social glue: shared values, myths, stories... A group of individuals who are nothing but selfish *homines oeconomici* will never be able to form a society. I think there are good arguments in favor of the idea that religions served quite well as social...

Fernapple replies on Jun 1, 2022:

@MikeInBatonRouge Got them thank you. Yes, and in any case my choice of socialism, was only as an example, and there are many different forms of it anyway as you rightly point out. It is also true that to a degree we are all socialists, even in the most right wing parts of bible belt the states still provide the road building, the policing and the fire departments. What the right wing really mean is not, we don't want state welfare, but rather , we only want the bits that people like us need.

The final last ditch defense of the religious apologist, when all else fails, is often the ...

anglophone comments on May 31, 2022:

The issue that I see with the "useful lie" idea is that it first requires the elimination from society all those individuals who engage in the habit critical thought. Then, and only then, would any such "useful lie" be universally accepted.

Fernapple replies on May 31, 2022:

@Wallace Yes but the danger of that is that you risk normalizing half truth as an acceptable social and thinking tradition, which may become overlooked even by thinkers, because it is so taken for granted. And which, this being the main point of my post, sets a lower standard of critical thinking, through all of the society.

The final last ditch defense of the religious apologist, when all else fails, is often the ...

Matias comments on May 31, 2022:

Every community or society needs some sort of social glue: shared values, myths, stories... A group of individuals who are nothing but selfish *homines oeconomici* will never be able to form a society. I think there are good arguments in favor of the idea that religions served quite well as social...

Fernapple replies on May 31, 2022:

True but I think that ideas like socialism are firstly far better than religion at doing their job, if only because they are simple and direct without all the added baggage and complications that come with religion. And also because they are more honest, freely admitting that they are only extentions of the Golden Rule not supported by any fake evidence. While the main point of my post is that, you risk normalizing half truth as an acceptable social and thinking tradition, which may become overlooked even by thinkers, because it is so taken for granted. And which, sets a lower standard of critical thinking, through all of the society.

A member on here, recently asked. Does love exist ?

Pralina1 comments on May 30, 2022:

Hey Richard I was reading this last night in a 5 mnt break at work , and no time to write a word , plus , realized , had no words in any language to put my thoughts tghr . I saved the post to revisit . Reading it again this afternoon , but time still an issue , getting ready for work soon . ...

Fernapple replies on May 31, 2022:

You are a wonder.

This world of ours.

Robecology comments on May 30, 2022:

Dwight David Eisenhower was perhaps the best president of the 20th century. He did a lot for our nation; -Approved the start of NASA and NOAA. -brought the "Korean conflict" to a close. hired many of the returning veterans (then known as "General Issues" or G.I.'s) to create the ...

Fernapple replies on May 31, 2022:

The old wisdom of. Those who employ a bully, usually end up being employed by the bully.

Reading so much on this site, I have become interested in why a culture of fear and hate seems to be...

dalefvictor comments on May 30, 2022:

It just came to me that the teaching of religion tells one that if not for the fear of gods wrath all would do wrong. So we must fear, all the things you mention. Perhaps my problem is that I do not fear god, jesus, or whatever other deity I am supposed to fear. If they want me to fear them let ...

Fernapple replies on May 31, 2022:

The problem of course is, that a lot of believers do not truly fear, at least the good parts, of the god they secretly know in their hearts is not that threatening or maybe even real. Yet they still join and spend time in a subculture which teaches the fear of all other cultures, over and over again.

A member on here, recently asked. Does love exist ?

MizJ comments on May 30, 2022:

"Hugging and other forms of nonsexual touching cause your brain to release oxytocin, known as the "bonding hormone." This stimulates the release of other feel-good hormones, such as dopamine and serotonin, while reducing stress hormones, such as cortisol and norepinephrine. These neurochemical ...

Fernapple replies on May 30, 2022:

That adds much to the post, interesting thank you.

A member on here, recently asked. Does love exist ?

anglophone comments on May 30, 2022:

I simply could not be bothered to respond to such an inane and pointless question, hence my erstwhile silence in that regard.

Fernapple replies on May 30, 2022:

You probably have a great deal more sense than me.

A member on here, recently asked. Does love exist ?

Julie808 comments on May 30, 2022:

Yes, I think you have a point about love being an emotion or instinct that has evolved in humans and animals that care for their young. Perhaps going a bit further, that same kind of love and caring can extend to the larger community of alternate caregivers and those dependent on them, and life ...

Fernapple replies on May 30, 2022:

Exactly.

A member on here, recently asked. Does love exist ?

Diaco comments on May 30, 2022:

IMO, Our relations with everything are based on our Interests. Love means the desire to Whom or What can secure, provide and answer our needs & Interests. then A Good relationship is when both sides care about the other one's needs & Interests as well. I think any other definition is just a big ...

Fernapple replies on May 30, 2022:

Yes that is why I made my definition very broard to include just about any form of affection.

A member on here, recently asked. Does love exist ?

K9Kohle789 comments on May 30, 2022:

I believe that people believe in love whether it truly exists or not. I had a reckless parent-hating boyfriend-he died at 19 in his car. I felt we were in love but on reflection i think it was more lust than love. We were young, at an age of 'mating' and hormones were rampant. I also had a boy ...

Fernapple replies on May 30, 2022:

Yes, that is very true. My definition was of course very broard to include just about any form of affection.

I'll take 2 please...

Garban comments on May 30, 2022:

Perfect gift for @Fernapple or any gardener!

Fernapple replies on May 30, 2022:

Yes, but I bet it only works if you have a fibre optic broard band water supply.

Spirituality is emotionality.

violetfree comments on May 30, 2022:

Its much simpler. Religion is a just a way to control masses.

Fernapple replies on May 30, 2022:

@skado Lots. Money, sexual benefits, political power, social status, social influence, military power, vanity, etc. Hello violetfree and welcome to the site.

Firearms were the leading cause of death in children in 2020, researchers say : NPR

Triphid comments on May 29, 2022:

Words are nowhere near enough to say how sad and upsetting this is, especially, since imo, almost ALL of them could have PREVENTED had the Untied States of Absurdity woken up, seen that it is suffering from a series of totally insane obsessions, the first being that of " we must be armed, ready and ...

Fernapple replies on May 30, 2022:

Well said.

Firearms were the leading cause of death in children in 2020, researchers say : NPR

Betty comments on May 29, 2022:

In my opinion... The biggest cause of division is racism, discrimination, and prejudice which is encouraged by religion, government, and big business. It protects and benefits them, everyone else is expendable. With such large groups in each demographic, the voice of reason is lost.

Fernapple replies on May 30, 2022:

Well said. There is more behind it than just gun rights.

So I have a friend, he is not on here but he is one of the most knowledgeable when it comes to ...

Fernapple comments on May 29, 2022:

Most of them have been done, but to be topical. Why not ask if religion is not in part responsible for the promotion of the fear and hate culture which seems to be afflicting the US today ? As in. Religion needs to fill pews, it does that by promoting fear, fear of chaos, fear of sin, fear of ...

Fernapple replies on May 29, 2022:

@misstuffy Yes I do think that the young offer a lot of hope.

Reading so much on this site, I have become interested in why a culture of fear and hate seems to be...

Charles1971 comments on May 29, 2022:

I agree with you Fernapple though I don't think this is something new. I think technology (media, internet) have simply made the spread of fear and hate both easier and more obvious. Just looking back through U.S. history and there's plenty of hate and fear prior to the 21st century... ...

Fernapple replies on May 29, 2022:

Hopefully it will bottom out, but the bottom of the pit may not be a pleasant place sadly.

Reading so much on this site, I have become interested in why a culture of fear and hate seems to be...

SpikeTalon comments on May 29, 2022:

Whilst I'd readily agree that organized religion breeds a culture of promoting fear and despair, I could also say the same for secular politics, in particular politicians with an interest in promoting their own self-righteous agendas (politicians from both political extremes that is). Unfortunately ...

Fernapple replies on May 29, 2022:

The two together get really frightening sadly.

Reading so much on this site, I have become interested in why a culture of fear and hate seems to be...

TedGresham997 comments on May 29, 2022:

I haven't read the other comments yet but here's my two-cents worth. Christianity has always been based on fear. From one end to the other preachers have preached and taught followers to fear god, be afraid they're not worthy, etc. These days, however, religious leaders can see the world changing...

Fernapple replies on May 29, 2022:

That is very true. The cornered beast may do a lot of damage in its death throws.

Reading so much on this site, I have become interested in why a culture of fear and hate seems to be...

MikeInBatonRouge comments on May 29, 2022:

I think you answered your own question, and I fully agree with your answer. I do think that the fact of our being founded, NOT on religious freedom as Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and a few of their compratriots hoped, but rather on belief in religious exceptionalism, the delusion that we ...

Fernapple replies on May 29, 2022:

That is one hell of a set of problems.

Reading so much on this site, I have become interested in why a culture of fear and hate seems to be...

anglophone comments on May 29, 2022:

I think it is perhaps more complex than just religion. My half-baked guess is that a country's leaders have an influence on society. Where leaders embrace pluralism the "fear of the other" becomes less pronounced. Contrapositively, where leaders embrace exceptionalism "fear of the other" becomes ...

Fernapple replies on May 29, 2022:

Yes you are certainly quite correct, I was just limiting my comments to the one aspect of it, religions share.

Reading so much on this site, I have become interested in why a culture of fear and hate seems to be...

Alienbeing comments on May 29, 2022:

What you suspect has a degree of truth. Religion promotes separation when each religion proclaims it is the only way. That promotes the concept of tribalism.

Fernapple replies on May 29, 2022:

Exactly.

Reading so much on this site, I have become interested in why a culture of fear and hate seems to be...

TomMcGiverin comments on May 29, 2022:

It's probably no accident that theocracy and capitalism go hand in hand. I think that in the US, religion is used and promoted by the capitalist ruling class to discourage the people from ever thinking of supporting socialism or revolting against the system here. It's a distraction against class ...

Fernapple replies on May 29, 2022:

Much of the rest of the developed world is not affraid of ideas, and so they move forward. The main fear they plant in theocracies is the fear of ideas.

Reading so much on this site, I have become interested in why a culture of fear and hate seems to be...

DenoPenno comments on May 29, 2022:

Also remember that religions center around their version of truth. It is knowing. If you have the right religion you know the truth. What about the other guy and his religion? He does not have the truth. This also puts those who know as much smarter than you.

Fernapple replies on May 29, 2022:

Very true.

Reading so much on this site, I have become interested in why a culture of fear and hate seems to be...

Matias comments on May 29, 2022:

I don't think that religion is the prime suspect of America's love affair with guns and violence. It's more the lingering frontier mentality: if you have to share the teritory you live on with other people you perceive as "hostile tribes", you learn to love your gun. And once this mentality has ...

Fernapple replies on May 29, 2022:

There is probably a lot of truth in that, though it does not perhaps explain all of the more generalized fear and hatred.

Reading so much on this site, I have become interested in why a culture of fear and hate seems to be...

BD66 comments on May 29, 2022:

It's the US Media. They generate their profits by stoking anger and hatred.

Fernapple replies on May 29, 2022:

Are not the churches part of the media ?

Reading so much on this site, I have become interested in why a culture of fear and hate seems to be...

Sofabeast comments on May 29, 2022:

Functionalists would argue that macro societies require a stable rock of knowledge and power to believe in - in essence surrendering themselves to a higher authority, even if this authority fails the scientific method.

Fernapple replies on May 29, 2022:

Yes but there can be good forms of that, and bad forms.

The Honeysuckle which grows at the end of my drive, here in the photos against my neighbor's cottage...

Lorajay comments on May 28, 2022:

I killed some of the honeysuckle that volunteered my yard because it will choke out from the shrubs if you don't.

Fernapple replies on May 28, 2022:

Mine grows in a wild corner at the end of my drive, so it has nothing of value to choke. Fortunately.

Jordan Klepper Debunks The “Good Guy with a Gun” Argument

Fernapple comments on May 28, 2022:

Sadly it says. "Video unavailable in your country."

Fernapple replies on May 28, 2022:

@Lorajay Good idea, but I just tried it, and it is certainly not available in the UK.

The Honeysuckle which grows at the end of my drive, here in the photos against my neighbor's cottage...

OldGoat43 comments on May 28, 2022:

My brother and I would pick a few honeysuckle flowers in my grandmother's backyard to taste the sweet nectar that the hummingbirds loved.

Fernapple replies on May 28, 2022:

Never tried that. May have a go.

Does love exist?

Matias comments on May 26, 2022:

Is this a trap, a trick question? If somebody answers Yes, although love is nothing but a feeling, you could conclude that God exists too, even if he may be nothing but a shared feeling...

Fernapple replies on May 28, 2022:

@Matias That is very true. Though I would not perhaps use the word sophisticated, perhaps " educated beyond their understanding" would be a better term, since it seems to me that, it is really just a, school boy level, logic trick. Indeed most of theology seems to be just a school boy level logic trick perhaps.

Spirituality is emotionality.

AtheistInNC comments on May 26, 2022:

Another secret christian on the site.

Fernapple replies on May 28, 2022:

@AtheistInNC To be fair to skado, and I am often very critical of him. He has never made a secret of his christianity, but has always plainly stated that he is a believer in the christian cultural tradition but not in the literal existence of god.

Does love exist?

Matias comments on May 26, 2022:

Is this a trap, a trick question? If somebody answers Yes, although love is nothing but a feeling, you could conclude that God exists too, even if he may be nothing but a shared feeling...

Fernapple replies on May 28, 2022:

@Matias Note the fallacy of proof by definition, which is worth thinking about here. " I define god as a donkey, donkeys undoubtedly exist, therefore god exists."

Is an autistic kid more easily indoctrinated with religion?

Matias comments on May 27, 2022:

No, rather the opposite. To be religious, you need an intact Theory of Mind (which is exactly what autistic people lack), and it is also an advantage to have a very well developed associative cognition, i.e. to see connections very easily, even if objectively there are none.

Fernapple replies on May 27, 2022:

I just posted this comment on yvilletom's other copy of this post and thought you may like to read it. It really depends on the type of scam. Autistic and Aspergers people, ( I am borderline. ) can be very bad at reading certain social signals, so that we could be caught if the scam is one based on social trust issues, such as a lonely hearts scam. On the other hand there is often an obsessive passion for fact and perfect logic, indeed one way to describe the spectrum is as just obsessive honesty, and unwillingness to accept cognitive dissonance. Illogic makes you uncomfortable at an emotional level. ( Darwin's perfect logic in his natural history, which still stands up very well today, has been ascribed to possible borderline autism. ) So there could be a much reduced risk from gambling and religion related scams.

Would it be at all possible to persuade ALL or ANY of those who simply want PROTECTION to train to ...

Fernapple comments on May 26, 2022:

That could cause even more deaths. Tazers can be lethal, especially to children and people with heart problems, but the common delusion that they are harmless could get them used frequently in a casual irresponsible, and even joking, way. They are best left to well trained police officers ...

Fernapple replies on May 27, 2022:

@Mcflewster Now that is a sharp point, or three round soft ones.

Does love exist?

Matias comments on May 26, 2022:

Is this a trap, a trick question? If somebody answers Yes, although love is nothing but a feeling, you could conclude that God exists too, even if he may be nothing but a shared feeling...

Fernapple replies on May 27, 2022:

@Matias Yep, that is probably a better way to put what I was trying to say.

I guess changing things is not an option....priorities.......

p-nullifidian comments on May 27, 2022:

Such irony is lost on all too many. ☹️

Fernapple replies on May 27, 2022:

@Matias Yep. And it is of no use to point out to them, that their "constitutional right" was formulated in the days when "arms" meant single shot muzzel loading rifles at best. A fully automatic assualt rifle, or anything like it, was simply not what the word "arms" meant, in the eightenth century. Or that for most "real" uses, such as hunting, the sport of marksmanship, or even self protection, a single round gun is all you actually need.

I guess changing things is not an option....priorities.......

p-nullifidian comments on May 27, 2022:

Such irony is lost on all too many. ☹️

Fernapple replies on May 27, 2022:

Especially those who most need to hear it. If most gun owners understood irony, they would see how silly they look buying the thing in the first place.

Would it be at all possible to persuade ALL or ANY of those who simply want PROTECTION to train to ...

Fernapple comments on May 26, 2022:

That could cause even more deaths. Tazers can be lethal, especially to children and people with heart problems, but the common delusion that they are harmless could get them used frequently in a casual irresponsible, and even joking, way. They are best left to well trained police officers ...

Fernapple replies on May 27, 2022:

@HankSherman No, Mcflewster was talking about people who would carry tazzers to defend themselves, not getting criminals to use them. I said that that would probably just cause a lot of accidental deaths, since most gun deaths are actually accidental, and if people think that tazzers are less harmful than guns, which they are, they may be inclined to use them more, and the more frequent use will cancel out the less harmful effects. The big danger in tazzers is that they are wrongly perceived as not dangerous. A shop keeper for example who saw a kid steeling candy, would almost certainly not reach for a gun and shoot, but they would perhaps use a tazzer if they believed the myth that they do no real harm.

Does love exist?

Matias comments on May 26, 2022:

Is this a trap, a trick question? If somebody answers Yes, although love is nothing but a feeling, you could conclude that God exists too, even if he may be nothing but a shared feeling...

Fernapple replies on May 27, 2022:

@hankster, @skado None it is my conclusion. The word was confusion, not conclusion.

Does love exist?

Matias comments on May 26, 2022:

Is this a trap, a trick question? If somebody answers Yes, although love is nothing but a feeling, you could conclude that God exists too, even if he may be nothing but a shared feeling...

Fernapple replies on May 27, 2022:

@hankster I did not say around here.

Should you wonder what motivation a man can have who kills 20 little children, just like that (not ...

Fernapple comments on May 26, 2022:

And of course in the end they will fail even in their sick intent. Herostratus may be remembered because he was a "first" but who remembers the names of most murderers, even the really famous ones are forgot in a couple of centuries, because they are such a common dish, todays newspaper, tomorrows ...

Fernapple replies on May 26, 2022:

@Matias That is certainly true.

Does love exist?

Matias comments on May 26, 2022:

Is this a trap, a trick question? If somebody answers Yes, although love is nothing but a feeling, you could conclude that God exists too, even if he may be nothing but a shared feeling...

Fernapple replies on May 26, 2022:

@hankster No that is not likely to happen to me, but sadly there are many who are, and that is painful to observe.

Does love exist?

Matias comments on May 26, 2022:

Is this a trap, a trick question? If somebody answers Yes, although love is nothing but a feeling, you could conclude that God exists too, even if he may be nothing but a shared feeling...

Fernapple replies on May 26, 2022:

Probably. But of course that would be skado making a very stupid confusion, since religion/god are not the same thing as love or any so called spiritual emotions, but merely the cultural artifacts which are used to stimulate those emotions by fakery. If religion does stimulate love, then it has the same relationship to love that pornography does to sex. And it is potencially just as likely to misdirect and lead to the misunderstanding of love, as pornography is likely to misdirect and lead to a misunderstanding of sex.

Would it be at all possible to persuade ALL or ANY of those who simply want PROTECTION to train to ...

Fernapple comments on May 26, 2022:

That could cause even more deaths. Tazers can be lethal, especially to children and people with heart problems, but the common delusion that they are harmless could get them used frequently in a casual irresponsible, and even joking, way. They are best left to well trained police officers ...

Fernapple replies on May 26, 2022:

@Mcflewster They tried to make them weaker in Britain, but that just meant that they no longer worked on determined criminals. Because people are so variable, medical science long ago proved that no matter what the device, poison, radiation dose, infection, or impact, you need to make it at least strong enough to kill fifty percent of people, called the fatal dose technically, ( The fatal dose term medically means that which kills fifty percent, not a hundred. ) before the last person in the hundred will notice any effect at all. While if you make it so weak that it only kills one percent, then a large number will just brush it off. I am sorry to say that safe zappers, are likely to remain forever a sci-fi fantasy.

Spirituality is emotionality.

nogod4me comments on May 26, 2022:

Religion is a poor manager of emotions, emotions have, and will, throw religion "under the bus" whenever it "feels" like it. That is one of the reasons why religion is fickle and divergent. "Religion is not a matter of God, church, holy cause, etc. These are but accessories. The source of ...

Fernapple replies on May 26, 2022:

Yes true. Though it has to be said that the only reason people want to reject the self in the first place is because it was religion which taught them to dislike themselves. It first feeds narcissism by telling people they are special, because you are the chosen ones of, god, the great spirit, the cosmic life force, the prophets wisdom, or whatever. But then tells them that special people have to be prefect according to impossible standards, which noboby can actually attain. And once hooked on the narcissistic idea that they are special they feel guilt that can not meet those standards, so they keep coming back for more help, They are then fed more narcissistic promises, which makes them feel even more failed. And so on. The whole language of religions, especially theist religions like Christianity, is steeped in self absorption. “My revelation, My salvation, My relationship with My god, My soul, My immortality, My existential crisis,” etc. etc. The “my” and “our” words are splashed liberally through every text and speech. And that of course makes religion very useful to the charlatans who control it, for profit, prestige, political influence and sexual favours etc. Because nobody is so needy and hungry for reassurance against doubt than those who have been implanted with the vanities of narcissism. So that you will encounter, supposedly grown adults, who still confess to a childish fear of death, and have not yet achieved enough of the natural grown up nihilism, which comes to most just with age, to realize the total unimportance of their own lives, and therefore their deaths too. And who are often engaged in a endless search for so called spiritual enlightenment. Moving ever from one guru, to the next revelation and holy text, in search of the none existent, because their narcissism tells them that they so important, that they are entitled to have a special understanding of the universe not given to all others by work and education alone.

Should you wonder what motivation a man can have who kills 20 little children, just like that (not ...

Fernapple comments on May 26, 2022:

And of course in the end they will fail even in their sick intent. Herostratus may be remembered because he was a "first" but who remembers the names of most murderers, even the really famous ones are forgot in a couple of centuries, because they are such a common dish, todays newspaper, tomorrows ...

Fernapple replies on May 26, 2022:

@Matias Oh certqainly a delusion of lasting fame is the drive, But it is still a delusion. And in any case the greatest wish of the wise, is to be forgotten as quickly as possible.

Spirituality is emotionality.

KKGator comments on May 26, 2022:

Wow! I think that's all kinds of wrong.

Fernapple replies on May 26, 2022:

It is the common religious apologist misconception/lie of equating religion with morality and wisdom. It hits the absolute lowest bottom as an argument, simply switching the labels morality and religion arround and hoping no one will notice, but it is so commonplace and taken for granted among apologists, that it is usually used mindlessly without consideration.

Spirituality is emotionality.

ToakReon comments on May 26, 2022:

Ah - one of those statements that sounds so profound, but when you actually read it and think about it, it means damn all.

Fernapple replies on May 26, 2022:

It is the common religious apologist misconception/lie of equating religion with morality and wisdom. It hits the absolute lowest bottom as an argument, simply switching the labels morality and religion arround and hoping no one will notice, but it is so commonplace and taken for granted among apologists, that it is usually used mindlessly without consideration.

10 Reasons Why Christianity Is Declining—and Atheism Is Growing - Soapboxie

Flyingsaucesir comments on May 25, 2022:

Joseph Cambell wrote, "Myth basically serves four functions. The first is the mystical function,... realizing what a wonder the universe is, and what a wonder you are, and experiencing awe before this mystery.... The second is a cosmological dimension, the dimension with which science is ...

Fernapple replies on May 26, 2022:

The decline is not a decline in belief, just a replacemement of bad beliefs with better ones.

This won't work any better than outlawing abortions but it's fun to think about.

FearlessFly comments on May 25, 2022:

. . . I support Roe v Wade abortion rights. . . . in terms of Critical Thinking, this post falls into the false equivalence category : https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/False-Equivalence

Fernapple replies on May 26, 2022:

Yes, although you could say that, in this case, the false equivalence, is in one way actually understating the case, rather than exagerating the argument. Since though, buying a gun is not a statement of intent to kill a child, yet a child is so much more than a fetus.

I am not a Conservative (at least not in the American meaning of this word), but I have to ...

Fernapple comments on May 24, 2022:

That is very true to a degree, but the reverse also applies. Of what use is power if you have nothing to do with it ? ( Certainly not hedonism, since that is easy to obtain with only moderate power, and the effort required to obtain power and hold it, only wastes time if you only want hedonism, ...

Fernapple replies on May 25, 2022:

@Matias Yes that happens by default. The trick is to insure that the group people in power identify with, is the widest possible group, which is not that hard since logically we are all in the same boat aboard a very small planet.

Why do we have outbreaks of things like monkey pox?

Fernapple comments on May 24, 2022:

We did, and the putrid Putin seems to be the worst symptom so far.

Fernapple replies on May 24, 2022:

@MsKathleen The feeling is mutual.

It's not a perfect rule, but it's as close as we've gotten.

AtheistInNC comments on May 23, 2022:

SORRY ... the Satanic Temple nailed it better than all the rest: THERE ARE SEVEN FUNDAMENTAL TENETS I One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason. II The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over ...

Fernapple replies on May 24, 2022:

@tinkercreek No, because if you read carefully the, freedom to offend, refers to others freedom to offend you, while the other rules apply to what you do to others. So four is just an extention of one, but it certainly could be more plainly worded.

"Naturally being a migrant wanting to outdo American bullying & anarchic behaviour it follows that ...

Fernapple comments on May 19, 2022:

That is very insulting, and I am sure that any reasonable sites guidelines should preclude that level of misbehavior.

Fernapple replies on May 23, 2022:

@hankster You do not think it insulting to accuse someone of being a traitor to his country for personal gain ?

Nowadays it is fashionable to constantly pillory white people and to put Western culture in the ...

linxminx comments on May 22, 2022:

You could probably denigrate most countries and cultures of the world if you delve into their past, so I don't think we are particularly unique in throwing the west under the bus now and then.

Fernapple replies on May 22, 2022:

@linxminx It means thinking about pseudo profound things like. "Where did I come from ?" Why am I here ?" Ironically think about your navel and you will get the joke. I think it is quite a good joke , surprised you do not have it in the USA.

Shot down over Ukraine, Russian SU-34 fighter jet found with GPS taped to its dashboard ...

Druvius comments on May 21, 2022:

And some will believe this. It might even be true, but I doubt it.

Fernapple replies on May 22, 2022:

It could be true, and it could be complete fake. But another possibility is that it is something he carries with him for use on the ground, or in case he is forced down.

Is nihilism not just a natural part of growing up and maturing anyway ?

racocn8 comments on May 21, 2022:

Learning what we know about the universe is humbling. That universe is far removed from our day-to-day existence, so love, hope and sadness have no physical meaning, but become the basis for our behavior. We live in a culturally religious society, so our thinking and behaviors have become shaped ...

Fernapple replies on May 21, 2022:

God is the personal name that we give to our narcissism. We create an image of our vanity in our own likeness, and we call it religion. Without even a thought as to how that false idol would look, in the eyes of any real god, if one did exist.

Is nihilism not just a natural part of growing up and maturing anyway ?

puff comments on May 21, 2022:

Yes it is, but some just don't feel it

Fernapple replies on May 21, 2022:

Some just never grow up, I sometimes think that I am not very mature myself in many ways, but I think that I manage that one OK.

Not really gardening but related.

MikeInBatonRouge comments on May 20, 2022:

Beautiful country lane landscape. Interesting to ponder how various weeds respond to our human actions on the landscape. We seem to be the best thing ever to have happened to "weed-kind." Lol

Fernapple replies on May 20, 2022:

They were just waiting for us to come along. Many weeds were of course originally plants of disturbed ground. Who usually had to wait for a landslide earthquake or flood to give them the bare earth they needed, so they were probably quite rare, but then we came along and started ploughing and digging everywhere.

It is the hight now of the Cow Parsley season, Anthriscus sylvestris, here in the UK.

Boomtarat03 comments on May 20, 2022:

It is a wonderful spot to squat and think about life 😆🌱🍃 I love it, the leafy surrounding. 💚💚💚

Fernapple replies on May 20, 2022:

@Boomtarat03 It is a lovely place yes, but not me no, I do bike the lanes, but nothing like that fast.

It is the hight now of the Cow Parsley season, Anthriscus sylvestris, here in the UK.

Boomtarat03 comments on May 20, 2022:

It is a wonderful spot to squat and think about life 😆🌱🍃 I love it, the leafy surrounding. 💚💚💚

Fernapple replies on May 20, 2022:

@Boomtarat03 Just for fun, here is a tour of the area by bike. Which is anything but relaxing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFR1zKF_3Yk

It is the hight now of the Cow Parsley season, Anthriscus sylvestris, here in the UK.

Boomtarat03 comments on May 20, 2022:

It is a wonderful spot to squat and think about life 😆🌱🍃 I love it, the leafy surrounding. 💚💚💚

Fernapple replies on May 20, 2022:

Yes and I am lucky, it is only a mile from where I live.

It is the hight now of the Cow Parsley season, Anthriscus sylvestris, here in the UK.

FrayedBear comments on May 20, 2022:

What's the white bush?

Fernapple replies on May 20, 2022:

Hawthorne ( Crataegus) one of our common hedgerow bushes.

Not really gardening but related.

Lorajay comments on May 20, 2022:

British vegetation grows in such neat mounds even when it is growing in the wild. My weeds usually have intrusive other weeds.

Fernapple replies on May 20, 2022:

There are one or two clumps of Red Champion as well. Especially in the second photo near the left hand edge, bright pink.

That's why I'm proud to be a Wiccan

Fernapple comments on May 20, 2022:

Funny how, what glorifies god, always seems to be very like what they wanted to do anyway.

Fernapple replies on May 20, 2022:

@anglophone Only in the image of very limited men. Did you ever hear the playground chant. "My big brother will get you."

But we are now civilized

racocn8 comments on May 19, 2022:

Micro-dick.

Fernapple replies on May 20, 2022:

Very small whale, used to live in our village pond, and once sank a paper boat.

But we are now civilized

Flyingsaucesir comments on May 19, 2022:

Funny that he lumps two legitimate natural sciences and a natural biological function together with supernatural nonsense. What a gibbering idiot. Sigh.

Fernapple replies on May 20, 2022:

Oh I think that is only his short list. His full list would be, basically everything not found in the only book he thinks everyone else should read. (He never bothered because he pays the preacher to read it to him. You know, reading is hard. )

I'd like to explore stoicism more in depth. Any comments regarding stoicism?

Matias comments on May 16, 2022:

Stoicism is something other than a kind of self-help program to get your feelings under better control. if you want to be a Stoic, then you have to believe in something like a hidden, cosmic order: what the Stoics called the "logos". A Stoic must bring his own life into harmony with this Logos. This...

Fernapple replies on May 17, 2022:

@Matias The problem is confusing morality with ethics. Nature "the part of objective reality that is studied by physics, chemistry and biology" is not ethical, but it is often moral, as is proved by a lot of science, that many animals across many species, especially the social animal, exhibit moral behaviour. Such as taking measures to avoid incest, supporting and helping other family members and allies, exhibiting a basic instinctive understanding of fairness, and having social status based on contribution. Where ethics emerge, is from the problems created by the first and greatest mismatch in human history, when we first started to develop culture, and we moved from living in a natural environment to a cultural one. And the cultural environment was one to which we had no natural genetic adaptions. So that anomalies soon became apparent. As in for example, people have a natural moral instinct to protect, even violently, family and friends. If therefore you could, and it was very easy, create an artificial extended family, such as a nation or tribe, using cultural tools such as arts and religion, then you could manipulate that instinct and induce people to respond in violent defence, when that fake family was supposedly attacked. ( The attack can also be a cultural fake. ) In other words you could create war. But then you start to get problems and conflicts of interest, because for example, if someone dies fighting a war for their artificial family, then they can no longer defend their genetic family from an attack by lions or bandits when they come. It was needful therefore when the problems of mismatch became apparent, to try to create a framework of ethics, codified moral rules, to try to overcome the problems. But though ethics are logical constructs , they are still powered and motivated by genetic instincts and emotions. I do not know for example without looking it up, if the Stoics had an ethical ruling against incest, but I would expect they did, since many systems of ethics do. But why would any system of ethics rule against incest ? What harm does it do ? Well the short conventional answer would of course be that, inbreeding is more likely to produce weak sick and deformed children, who often die young. But that in turn only begs the question. So what, why should we not produce as many weak sick and deformed children who often die young, if we are enjoying the sex ? The answer of course is that we prefer strong healthy children, and that the sicknesses, pains and early death of children upsets us. In other words it causes an instinctive, emotional, negative response, born out of our natural genetic programming, which at the bottom of it is why we have an ethic against incest. But if we did not have those instincts and emotions, then ...

I'd like to explore stoicism more in depth. Any comments regarding stoicism?

Matias comments on May 16, 2022:

Stoicism is something other than a kind of self-help program to get your feelings under better control. if you want to be a Stoic, then you have to believe in something like a hidden, cosmic order: what the Stoics called the "logos". A Stoic must bring his own life into harmony with this Logos. This...

Fernapple replies on May 17, 2022:

@skado No that is incorrect, the Epicureans do not say. "Do as you please and everything will work out fine." Quite the contrary, the Epicureans said that success and happiness comes from learning to curb and regulate the pleasure impulse. Since they saw misfortune as coming from uncontrolled desire. As in. If I drink too much I will get a hangover, if I have too much sex, I will get more children than I can support, whereas if I drink very moderately, I will make social bonds more easily, and moderate sex will get you a supportable family, of well provided for children, to support you in old age. The big difference with the Stoics came about, because the Stoics believed that misfortune alone was the main cause of suffering, and that morale behaviour had little effect on that, so that nihilism was needful to face the inevitable unhappiness. The misassociation of the Epicureans with hedonism, comes from early Christian propaganda, and was at least philosophically quite untrue, though of course any large scale movement is bound to have some corruption. And is ironic in at least one way, because the early Christian monastic tradition probably got a lot of its inspiration from the Epicurean communities, where the followers of Epicurus lived lives of austerity and simplicity following the teachings of the philosopher. It is little doubted by historians that most of the portrayal of Epicureanism as mere hedonism is an invention of the propagandists. Perhaps in part, because, as well as being a rival cult, the Epicureans also treated men a women as equals, which made it easy in the misogynistic mindset of many then , to portray the Epicureans as sexually immoral. It is sad that such misunderstandings and strawmanings of the movement still persist to this day, when there is no good reason not to understand the truth, but the Christian sub-culture still passes on its own version of history untouched by mainstream history, and it is very pervasive.

A thought experiment: Let's imagine a utopian society that wants to abolish all differences ...

Fernapple comments on May 16, 2022:

Yes they would, for them not to there would have to be no genetic determinism at all, and we know without any but the most technical of scientific doubt that there is a lot.

Fernapple replies on May 17, 2022:

@Matias If we do not have intuitive access to it, then why would it exist ? Natural sellection does not create things which do not do anything.

I'd like to explore stoicism more in depth. Any comments regarding stoicism?

Matias comments on May 16, 2022:

Stoicism is something other than a kind of self-help program to get your feelings under better control. if you want to be a Stoic, then you have to believe in something like a hidden, cosmic order: what the Stoics called the "logos". A Stoic must bring his own life into harmony with this Logos. This...

Fernapple replies on May 16, 2022:

@Matias No that is completly wrong, ethics exist in nature, and our ethics emerge for nature, for the simple reason that there is nothing but nature for them to come from.

The happiest nations on Earth are strongly secular

Julie808 comments on May 15, 2022:

Perhaps that goes to show that people relying on their own ingenuity and sense of kindness and fairness get along just fine toward attaining happiness.

Fernapple replies on May 16, 2022:

They also perhaps, expect more of their government, employers and fellow citizens if the church is not there to tell them that the only good things come though us.

The happiest nations on Earth are strongly secular

skado comments on May 16, 2022:

Spinmeister Phil strikes again.

Fernapple replies on May 16, 2022:

I did not know that your real name was Phil, what have you been up to now ?

The happiest nations on Earth are strongly secular

NostraDumbass comments on May 15, 2022:

An interestingly different interpretation of the data goes like this: The more strife and inequity there is in a society, the more likely people are to be attracted to religion as a coping mechanism. Conversely, when social problems are reduced and freedoms,prosperity, equality and education ...

Fernapple replies on May 16, 2022:

Also compare with this. https://rsf.org/en/index?year some may be moving forward in all ways

As we move towards summer the spring garden certainly has hit some flower power this week.

MikeInBatonRouge comments on May 15, 2022:

Beautiful! The cornflower, in particular, is a nostalgia trigger for me. I never see quite the same kind here in southern Louisiana. Not sure, but I suspect the heat would be too much for them. However, in my early childhood, until we moved when I was 8, our nextdoor neighbor, "Cham," a retired ...

Fernapple replies on May 16, 2022:

Yes they do look very exotic don't they. Though with me they are almost too happy and invasive. I don't grow Stokesia asters though, perhaps I should give thaem a try, even upside down they look great.