Fernapple's Profile

The cutting edge of Human Evolution is the integration of science and religion.

IamNobody comments on Dec 5, 2019:

Whoever wrote the article ( I didn't read it, just the idea rattles me a bit)....How does he plan to merge or justify the coexistence of faith versus repeatable and verifiable data?

Fernapple replies on Dec 5, 2019:

@Observer-Effect Yes I left it three times because I though that several people may be interested in seeing it. Not a thing I usually do but since they are people I respect, and they said quite rightly that they could not be bothered to read it themselves I did the synopsis for them. They may not thank me, but you do your best. Using spiritual was a deliberate irony, because I think of it the same way you do.

The cutting edge of Human Evolution is the integration of science and religion.

IamNobody comments on Dec 5, 2019:

Whoever wrote the article ( I didn't read it, just the idea rattles me a bit)....How does he plan to merge or justify the coexistence of faith versus repeatable and verifiable data?

Fernapple replies on Dec 5, 2019:

For those who do not want to bother, I just listened to it all the way through. There is actually no mention of integrating science and religion. Except to say that some religious 'spiritual' practices are being studied by his science. There is a lot of self promotion to his sycophant interviewer. There is a lot of, word spaghetti, thrown at the wall, presumably hoping that the listener will find meaning where none was included to start with. He lists some modern world problems, which he then lumps together under the title of, "meaning crisis" and then says that he is trying to find a way to resolve it, while listing no particular direction; presumably because he has none. In the end he uses the early history of literacy and its effects on human progress, as a metaphor for for what he and his friends intend to achieve, saying that it will move the world forward in the same way, without giving any plain outline of his intentions, or any reason why anyone should believe the metaphor of literacy is justified. I pass no judgment, since without enlargement on his ideas there is nothing there to judge, it may be that he will come up with something so profound he will become the new Buddha, or maybe he is just a self delusionist lying twerp.

The cutting edge of Human Evolution is the integration of science and religion.

Donotbelieve comments on Dec 5, 2019:

Pass

Fernapple replies on Dec 5, 2019:

Don't want to waste your time but. For those who do not want to bother, I just listened to it all the way through. There is actually no mention of integrating science and religion. Except to say that some religious 'spiritual' practices are being studied by his science. There is a lot of self promotion to his sycophant interviewer. There is a lot of, word spaghetti, thrown at the wall, presumably hoping that the listener will find meaning where none was included to start with. He lists some modern world problems, which he then lumps together under the title of, "meaning crisis" and then says that he is trying to find a way to resolve it, while listing no particular direction; presumably because he has none. In the end he uses the early history of literacy and its effects on human progress, as a metaphor for for what he and his friends intend to achieve, saying that it will move the world forward in the same way, without giving any plain outline of his intentions, or any reason why anyone should believe the metaphor of literacy is justified. I pass no judgment, since without enlargement on his ideas there is nothing there to judge, it may be that he will come up with something so profound he will become the new Buddha, or maybe he is just a self delusionist lying twerp.

Cork Oak, Quercus suber, grows in semi open habitats under the hot dry Mediterranean sun, its bark ...

JackPedigo comments on Dec 4, 2019:

Cork is a wonderful material and a renewable resource (as long as it's allowed to regrow when harvested). When remodeling the house I did not want tile for the kitchen floor nor stone for the countertops. Stone is not renewable and tile is impractical for a kitchen floor. A friend mentioned Bamboo ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 5, 2019:

@JackPedigo Perhaps I don't know, but it is the forest which matters and not the individual tree.

Cork Oak, Quercus suber, grows in semi open habitats under the hot dry Mediterranean sun, its bark ...

JackPedigo comments on Dec 4, 2019:

Cork is a wonderful material and a renewable resource (as long as it's allowed to regrow when harvested). When remodeling the house I did not want tile for the kitchen floor nor stone for the countertops. Stone is not renewable and tile is impractical for a kitchen floor. A friend mentioned Bamboo ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 5, 2019:

It is always sustainable, the trees are perminant plantings, since it takes twenty years at least to get the first crop, and the trees are not harmed by harvesting.

Heres a little mystery to excite the brain cells.

AnneWimsey comments on Dec 4, 2019:

These things are all over India, where they are adorned daily, sometimes anointed with various liquids/oils, and venerated, prayed to, and adored...some are Huge!

Fernapple replies on Dec 4, 2019:

Interesting, I have never heard that similar things are still in use.

This may not be the last eating babies joke, but it may not be a joke any longer just delicious.

St-Sinner comments on Dec 4, 2019:

It looks really good. We can adjust the ingredients to what we went too. Eggs, flour, milk, maybe light sugar, nutmeg is great, little butter... all sound good. But what is the deal here? .... syrup, preserves, confectioners' sugar or cinnamon sugar?

Fernapple replies on Dec 4, 2019:

It is very like a yorkshire puddinng but with more egg, and treated as a sweet. I guess you could vary the ingredients to your own taste.

Heres a little mystery to excite the brain cells.

Cast1es comments on Dec 4, 2019:

Many of men's objects of worship , sculpture , towers seem to be pride of penis .

Fernapple replies on Dec 4, 2019:

You are the second person to go down the phalic route, but I think there could be a lot more to these than that, if that is the main thing then why don't they look more like penises.

So I am attempting to start a new group, ( it was bound to happen one day ).

Storm1752 comments on Dec 4, 2019:

What's the name of it?

Fernapple replies on Dec 4, 2019:

Natural History. Just follow the link if you like.

So I am attempting to start a new group, ( it was bound to happen one day ).

Pralina1 comments on Dec 3, 2019:

Very nice . I am in 🙌

Fernapple replies on Dec 4, 2019:

Natural history. Just follow the link if you like.

The Only Human To Be Buried On The Moon [youtube.com]

MojoDave comments on Dec 3, 2019:

He was a legend to us science nerds!

Fernapple replies on Dec 4, 2019:

Yes the father and son discovery of the iridium spike in the fossil record, alone, has to be one of the classic science stories.

Cork Oak, Quercus suber, grows in semi open habitats under the hot dry Mediterranean sun, its bark ...

Allamanda comments on Dec 3, 2019:

after my trip to Portugal and Spain this year, I had two impressions on this - please correct me if I got it wrong, my Spanish is not good. Firstly the cork oaks were/are badly affected by a disease, and plastic corks had to be used instead, there was a shortage (or screw-tops etc.). Secondly I saw ...

Fernapple replies on Dec 4, 2019:

If there is a disease problem then that will be a double blow to the cork forests, but certainly they were being felled a couple of decades ago due to falling demand, and only economic demand will reliably protect them. There may be a lot of shabby products available, I am sorry to say that you do have to seek out the good stuff, I found several artisan producers while traveling in Portugal who were producing really good things, sadly though the seat in the photo is not one, that was a down load because I needed a fourth photo to make the square up.

There may be a few Corvids here since they are a personal favorite. Enjoy. [youtube.com]

FearlessFly comments on Dec 3, 2019:

Corvidae is a cosmopolitan family of oscine passerine birds that contains the crows, ravens, rooks, jackdaws, jays, magpies, treepies, choughs, and nutcrackers.

Fernapple replies on Dec 4, 2019:

Its a big family and almost all of them are very smart, there are dozens of smart Corvid videos on Youtube it was hard to select one, but I thought this one was short and snappy.

So I am attempting to start a new group, ( it was bound to happen one day ).

St-Sinner comments on Dec 3, 2019:

Is there anything about people or just nature?

Fernapple replies on Dec 4, 2019:

No this is just nature, exactly because we are too self absorbed and need to get over ourselves more than anything.

So I am attempting to start a new group, ( it was bound to happen one day ).

CallMeDave comments on Dec 3, 2019:

We need another new group like we need another

Fernapple replies on Dec 4, 2019:

I know tell me about it, but it is my first and only one, and there did seem to be a gap.

So I am attempting to start a new group, ( it was bound to happen one day ).

Grahame comments on Dec 3, 2019:

I’d love a group about nature and plants and animals. Where do I join?

Fernapple replies on Dec 4, 2019:

Follow the link.

Uhhhm, yup.

Fernapple comments on Dec 3, 2019:

The information collecting bots. and algorithms etc. of the on-line media, are adjusted to collect negative information about the things people hate. Because that tells you more about them. ( As in. What sort of weather do you like ? Answer. Sunshine. Is not very useful because nearly everyone likes...

Fernapple replies on Dec 3, 2019:

@1of5 That's a good if novel pairing. Throw in politicians and arts pseuds, for me as well.

“At the still point of the turning world.

brentan comments on Dec 3, 2019:

He's a tough nut to crack. I think he's talking along the lines of 'the power of now', as per Tolle, but I've no idea what he means by the dance.

Fernapple replies on Dec 3, 2019:

A. Perhaps he means that movement is relative to stillness, and that without stillness therefore, there would be no movement. B. He could just be tossing word spaghetti together, and hoping someone will read more out than he put in. C. Both of the above.

The Mahonia bealei ( It may be Mahonia x media, help with that would be appreciated.

Besalbub comments on Dec 3, 2019:

I don't believe I've ever saw one of those , interesting foliage .

Fernapple replies on Dec 3, 2019:

It is a close relative of what I think is called Oregon Grape in the US.

Trump's lies and cruelty fueled a real resistance. There's hope for progressivism.

RoyMillar comments on Dec 1, 2019:

Love all your signs ,looking good

Fernapple replies on Dec 2, 2019:

@LiterateHiker Just an idea, change the 'and' for 'not'.

Each year a Christmas tree goes to the village, for display in the square.

Cutiebeauty comments on Dec 1, 2019:

Cutting down trees for a holiday is so wrong

Fernapple replies on Dec 1, 2019:

The tree has to go anyway because it is crowding it neighbours. They were planted thickly as a crop, and the final stand needs to be thinned.

The funny thing about having a so called "baby face" is so many people being shocked when I tell ...

St-Sinner comments on Nov 30, 2019:

28 is still a baby

Fernapple replies on Dec 1, 2019:

You ageist old grump. I completely agree with you. LOL

I need to ask a question here, but have to remember it first.

Charlene comments on Nov 30, 2019:

Umm, the answer is, well...42.

Fernapple replies on Dec 1, 2019:

Yes but what good is the answer if you don't know the question?

Writers Beware: Global book marketing scams

UpsideDownAgain comments on Nov 30, 2019:

It's amazing to me that these scammers keep trying after you've found them out. It's like they think they can still somehow convince you they are legit.

Fernapple replies on Dec 1, 2019:

I think that many of them are just automaticly posted by the computers, no though involved.

This kind of reminds me a bit of Myspace and orkut I will give this a try I think that Facebook is ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 26, 2019:

Hello and welcome. Thanks, but we really need more of a challenge than Facebook.

Fernapple replies on Nov 30, 2019:

@Blackatheist1985 The Zuk is trying to build a alternative internet that only he controls, using a very naff product. And if he does then all the good things about the net especially its freedom and its inclusiveness will go up in smoke. Plus as you say his politics are yuk.

What is so special about human life anyway?

Fernapple comments on Nov 26, 2019:

You may like watching this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsXP8qeFF6A

Fernapple replies on Nov 26, 2019:

@AnonySchmoose And of course they had to learn the order of the numbers in the first place.

One thing that puzzles me about believers in any religion is the conviction that it’s their God ...

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Nov 25, 2019:

Because Satan is deceiving everyone else. People want to be right.

Fernapple replies on Nov 26, 2019:

@Gwendolyn2018 Nor the one about the people who never heard of his book.

Its cold and damp here today in the UK, was yesterday, will be tomorrow.

rogerbenham comments on Nov 26, 2019:

Clearly must have a very good double glazed window behind him. The echo supports that. Outside there would be wind noise and sound deadening. Personally my fingers would rapidly get too cold. Well the final shots suggest that he is outside so the whole thing is miming. I'd guess on a really warm ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 26, 2019:

Yes I thought it must be recorded in a studio and then mimed to outside.

Most common/ridicuous argumento pro religion?

LenHazell53 comments on Nov 26, 2019:

Here are a few of them You cannot be moral and atheist as morality is god given without god you are by definition immoral regardless of your actions Something can not come from nothing except god who simply is The bible is true because it is the word of god and we know this because god ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 26, 2019:

Good list.

Its cold and damp here today in the UK, was yesterday, will be tomorrow.

Marionville comments on Nov 26, 2019:

Beautiful...but the snow is hardly going to warm you up.....could you not have found one of him playing in an orange grove?.

Fernapple replies on Nov 26, 2019:

Not yet.

One thing that puzzles me about believers in any religion is the conviction that it’s their God ...

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Nov 25, 2019:

Because Satan is deceiving everyone else. People want to be right.

Fernapple replies on Nov 26, 2019:

To which the next question is of course. Why does an all powerful all knowing god allow satan to decieve people ? And then. Surely if people are to be saved or punished for their sins, then they need to be fully informed about the nature of sin, or how can they be held responsible ?

With the recent death of my dog I've been thinking about death more than usual and something ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 23, 2019:

No one can prove it does not happen, or that we don't have another life, everything is complicated and very little known. Another idea some people had was that the universe as a whole reincarnates, goes back the big bang, and starts all over running the same stories. Lots of things possible.

Fernapple replies on Nov 24, 2019:

@JackPedigo Yes I wholly agree, all I am saying is that I can not disprove amny speculation, such as the post, and that I observe that there are, at this time and perhaps always, limits to knowledge.

With the recent death of my dog I've been thinking about death more than usual and something ...

Fernapple comments on Nov 23, 2019:

No one can prove it does not happen, or that we don't have another life, everything is complicated and very little known. Another idea some people had was that the universe as a whole reincarnates, goes back the big bang, and starts all over running the same stories. Lots of things possible.

Fernapple replies on Nov 24, 2019:

@JackPedigo My common sense tells me that you are right, and that is what I think. But my common sense also tells me that the universe is probably a lot more complex and difficult to understand than most people think, and that the underlying truth about it is probably something no one has even thought of yet.

Abusive Buddhist no better than any catholic clerical abuser

Jolanta comments on Nov 23, 2019:

Not only Catholic priests abuse children but Protestants and religious leaders from all other religions do it to.

Fernapple replies on Nov 23, 2019:

@girlwithsmiles Yes but religion does provide a very easy route for those who want to abuse power, to obtain that power, and one with, by its very nature, no filters to prevent them doing so.

I can no longer post pics from my Android phone to this site.

Fernapple comments on Nov 22, 2019:

A lot of people are finding it difficult now. There has for one thing been a size limit put on how big the photos put on this site may be, you could try making them smaller.

Fernapple replies on Nov 23, 2019:

@kjsgenie Yes I think that would be too big, I go for 1500 x1500, and they go up no problem, remember the size of the file has nothing to do with the size of the screen you view it on.

Guerrilla Gardening

glennlab comments on Nov 22, 2019:

What is guerrilla gardening?

Fernapple replies on Nov 23, 2019:

Gardening in public spaces, yes, but especially without permission.

"Race is the child of racism, not the father." Ta-Nehisi Coates

IamNobody comments on Nov 22, 2019:

Child, father, third cousin removed......does it really matter???

Fernapple replies on Nov 22, 2019:

@IamNobody I know that, that's why its fun fencing with you.

"Race is the child of racism, not the father." Ta-Nehisi Coates

IamNobody comments on Nov 22, 2019:

Child, father, third cousin removed......does it really matter???

Fernapple replies on Nov 22, 2019:

@IamNobody Here you go. https://www.ashg.org/education/pdf/geneticvariation.pdf and, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve , can supply more and less scholarly articles too. It is of course subjective what you don't call a race, but it is also subjective what you do call a race. But since we usually use terms like 'breed' instead of race for creatures like cattle, which are far more genetically diverse than us, and reserve 'race' for creatures which border on splitting into subspecies, the assumption seems to fit.

By Any Other Name Literalists, both theist and atheist, hold God to be a supreme creative ...

AnneWimsey comments on Nov 22, 2019:

Ignoring everything else posted, What would be the point of naming my chief interest, or desire (your post was very unclear about that!) "Stephanie" or whatever?? Why not just call it what it is, World Peace or Money or whatever its actual name is, and in My language, not Sanskrit, too........ I ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 22, 2019:

I think that the intention. (as I am sure you understand.) Is that the list is cut short at 'Clark... or Stephanie.' The intention being that it should read. "Clark... or Stephanie, or God." That God can and should be used as just a symbolic word for a nebulous unknown, this being one of Skado's things. But. It ignores the fact that God, is not a neutral name, with no other remembered meanings like Clark or Stephanie, and that by using it in the secular world, you at the very least appear, and appearances are everything here, to extend, the bounaries of religious empirialism. Which brings comfort even to the most extreme of religious funadamentalists and criminals, by giving those sharks a bigger pond to swim in, a bigger recruiting ground, and a greater illusion that they are respectable and mainstream, as well as helping to convince their victims of the same.

“To a philosopher all news is gossip.” Henry David Thoreau

brentan comments on Nov 21, 2019:

I wonder what he meant.

Fernapple replies on Nov 22, 2019:

@Freedompath Yes I do think that he was slightly exagerating his case. But of course he was especially talking about the poplulist press, and the common fallacy of reading the general from the particular. Especially as he elsewhere put it, the popular idea that the gutter press absorbed without thought, counted as education. Or as Henthabox put it above. "I guess I had/have been assuming he meant the particular in relation to the general."

"Race is the child of racism, not the father." Ta-Nehisi Coates

IamNobody comments on Nov 22, 2019:

Child, father, third cousin removed......does it really matter???

Fernapple replies on Nov 22, 2019:

Yes it matters if the horse is in front of or behind the cart. To use another metaphor. Science tell us that there are no human races, in the same way as there are races of tigers or seagulls, since, as we nearly went extinct only a few thousand years ago, we are actually very inbred, one family really.

Hello.

skado comments on Nov 22, 2019:

Yes, apparently so. I see her name about in that context. You're ahead of me; I haven't read any books about it. I just now discovered it. What did you think of her book?

Fernapple replies on Nov 22, 2019:

Its a lovely book, quite short and an easy read. Plus I would always recommend it to anyone who did not get the basics of biology, bio-chemistry and evolutionary theory etc. at high school level. Since, she takes each of the science subjects, gives a very clear account of the basics, and then describes what for her is the 'spiritual' meaning of them.

There are no things could, so much enduring give, As fragile things, that swiftly die; and live.

skado comments on Nov 22, 2019:

Beautiful; thanks for posting. Your writing?

Fernapple replies on Nov 22, 2019:

Thank you. Yes mine.

Well, there are 100,000 members now according to the top level stats.

JimG comments on Nov 21, 2019:

100,000 members? Sounds good, but there are still only one or two who might not dislike me. :D

Fernapple replies on Nov 21, 2019:

Well work harder, it should not be difficult to annoy just a couple of people.

“To a philosopher all news is gossip.” Henry David Thoreau

brentan comments on Nov 21, 2019:

I wonder what he meant.

Fernapple replies on Nov 21, 2019:

He expanded on it, if I remember rightly, in this way. To the philosopher, by which he really meant student, it is useful to understand general laws, such as. More lives are lost at sea in shipwrecks than plane crashes. However details of any single plane crash, are of little value in formulating a philosophy. Likewise to the voter and the citizen, who has the job of electing government on issues, like air safety, only the stat's really matter. Therefore our lust for news about personal details, of say crash survivers, is only a voyeuristic lust for gossip of the lowest sort.

OK this is one for the record books.

Benjamin1 comments on Nov 20, 2019:

He may have done that on purpose.

Fernapple replies on Nov 21, 2019:

Don't you mean 'porpoise' .

Watch this young woman destroy the ark encounter: [youtube.com]

Varn comments on Nov 20, 2019:

Fabulous ...and hideous.. Would or do other civilized/ industrialized nations allow for such public brainwashing outside of ‘churches?’ Or is this another ‘only in America’ type situation..? Honestly, I couldn’t finish - but very much appreciate her efforts to educate & enlighten our ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 20, 2019:

@Happy_Killbot Wow, I feel so sorry for him. Never make a profit.

Some may think this a little sentimental but I like it.

Allamanda comments on Nov 20, 2019:

author? and I think the . at end of line 4 should be a ,?

Fernapple replies on Nov 20, 2019:

@Allamanda That's very kind thank you. But I am always wanting to learn.

Some may think this a little sentimental but I like it.

Allamanda comments on Nov 20, 2019:

author? and I think the . at end of line 4 should be a ,?

Fernapple replies on Nov 20, 2019:

The author is me. And yes, a full stop may work better, my language skills are not great. But it is the turning point of the poem and could be a second verse, long pause certainly.

Hello.

Allamanda comments on Nov 20, 2019:

Sacred, not scared?

Fernapple replies on Nov 20, 2019:

Thanks for the typo correction.

I'll be laughing at this one all day!

St-Sinner comments on Nov 19, 2019:

Once a woman said during sex... "Oh my God, life is beautiful".

Fernapple replies on Nov 19, 2019:

Yes I have heard that story to, but I could never find out who she was having sex with at the time. Don't suppose you know?

Philosophy vs. Religion

Cecilia2018 comments on Nov 14, 2019:

Thanks for an interesting topic. I'm not sure if you believe the description in your post but I believe in logic with my feet on the ground. Religions are full of misery, torture , fears and lies. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z9j7g1dfxIo

Fernapple replies on Nov 19, 2019:

@skado Thank you for the book, but I finished late last night and am working one step behind, here is my answer to your last. If you understood the scientific evidence that I provided, then the rise of superstition is easily understood. The biological value of favouring false positive over the risks of false negative, for example. If I think I see an eye looking at me from between the leaves, it is better to treat it as such than to ignore it, and therefore I hide. If it is not an eye but only a glint on the leaves, then all I have wasted is a little energy and a few seconds, but if I ignore it then I could risk loosing a valuable meal or being eaten by a predator. So a false positive carries less cost than false negative, and as this is so for all species it is hard wired into our minds. There is also animism, it is easier to explain strange things that happen sometimes in terms of a metaphor, in which things are given anthropomorphic intentions, which being human ourselves and lacking the resources of science are easier to understand. If the rains always come in spring, then it is much easier to understand that the rising sun wakes the rain god in spring, than to try to understand global weather systems. And perhaps many other reasons. So if we take the rise of superstition as a given, then for whatever reason some people will one day get the idea that they are controlling or influencing the supernatural forces, which are apparently produced by superstition. And since humans are hard wired for false positives, it is easy to see how they may get the idea that when some coincidence happens, perhaps several times, that correlation equals causation as they say. We went to the river and bathed, and the following day the rain came, that happened last year as well, therefore going to the river and bathing pleases the rain god and causes the rain. It being human nature the idea soon comes that some people are better at certain aspects of this than others. When we went to the river this year it did not rain. What was different? The one with three fingers was not with us this year, maybe it is only the one with three fingers bathing that pleases the rain god. So next time the group make sure the one with three fingers goes too, and it does rain, and to make the one with three finger go they offer rewards, even perhaps just praise and flattery, but rewards none the less. And it does rain. The next year they do the same but the rains do not come again. But it is hard to turn people from a path which brings them rewards, even just praise and flattery. So the one with three fingers has to invent an excuse. “Yes but it is only when I bathe three times.” And sooner or later it will rain, so that the three times excuse will seem to work. Now here we come...

‘It’s Really Refreshing And Relaxing’: College Students Say Ditching Their Smartphones For A ...

LucyLoohoo comments on Nov 18, 2019:

Imagine that? They can communicate ORALLY?

Fernapple replies on Nov 18, 2019:

That's very cynical and ageist. I love it.

Hi I have just joined so i thought I would say hello from the isle of wight.

AnneWimsey comments on Nov 18, 2019:

Wow, Isle of Wight...wasn't there an Agatha Christie book set there?

Fernapple replies on Nov 18, 2019:

Don't know but the country home of Albert and Victoria, Osborne House is there and so is Carisbrooke Castle where Charles the first was held before his trial. It is quite close to the mainland and is therefore the venue for the Cowes sailing regata.

Philosophy vs. Religion

kasmian comments on Nov 13, 2019:

It's not liberation if you're permanently unaware of how caged you are in the first place. Using the "Allegory of the Cave", what's basically being said here is that one is only truly free by not escaping the shackles and venturing out of the cavern simply because becoming more and more aware of...

Fernapple replies on Nov 18, 2019:

" Both require your effort." Yes but I do not think that the effort is equal, and I do think that the avoidance of effort especially, is a big temptation of religion, as in, you only need to master staring at the caves wall once, and the skill will last a lifetime.

Philosophy vs. Religion

Cecilia2018 comments on Nov 14, 2019:

Thanks for an interesting topic. I'm not sure if you believe the description in your post but I believe in logic with my feet on the ground. Religions are full of misery, torture , fears and lies. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z9j7g1dfxIo

Fernapple replies on Nov 18, 2019:

@skado Not at all, I certainly have not lost interest, and I know enough of you by now to know that you do not debate for egotistical reasons. But you asked for scientific proof and I gave you what there is. Had I lost interest, I would have brushed you of with the "What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." quote. As I see many here such as Atheist3, have effectively done at the top of this page. As for religion that comes not within the business of science, but within the discipline of history and the interpretation of history, which is largely subjective and therefore not scientific. However I am more than prepared to continue with that. While still standing by my point that, demanding scientific proof for the argument against religion, while supporting the argument for it with unqualified assertion, is a prime example of the double thinking, and double standards, which a sentimental attachment to such discredited thought systems is bound to lead you to. I too find a attraction to the great confidence tricks of history, the con-man always has an appeal if only because of the swagger, and the great subtlety required to carry it off, as the layers of deceit build up in ever increasing complexity. But there comes a time to put such immature attachments behind you. Because you eventually understand that they can only be harmful to your character and integrity, when once you start accepting double standards, the erosion of intellectual honesty, and all the better qualities of character and judgement begins to slide at an every increasing pace. And the corrosive effects of religion are all too often to be observed in, people who once had their chance to be good and honest. PS. Don't worry too much about the others who may be viewing this debate, I think that most people lost interest in our debates long ago. We are quite alone.

Myth and magic - the first feminists? [theguardian.com]

Fernapple comments on Nov 18, 2019:

Interesting, and a new piece of literary history to me. But I do think that they are straw-manning the brothers Grimm, since they were not really on the same page or the same place at all.

Fernapple replies on Nov 18, 2019:

@Allamanda Yes it seems that may well be correct. I googled it and quite soon came up with this, from a creditable source. "The brothers gained a reputation for collecting tales from peasants, although many tales came from middle-class or aristocratic acquaintances. Wilhelm's wife Dortchen Wild and her family, with their nursery maid, told the brothers some of the more well-known tales, such as "Hansel and Gretel" and "Sleeping Beauty". Wilhelm collected a number of tales after befriending August von Haxthausen, whom he visited in 1811 in Westphalia where he heard stories from von Haxthausen's circle of friends. Several of the storytellers were of Huguenot ancestry, telling tales of French origin such as those told to the Grimms by Marie Hassenpflug, an educated woman of French Huguenot ancestry, and it is probable that these informants were familiar with Perrault's Histoires ou contes du temps passé (Stories from Past Times). Other tales were collected from Dorothea Viehmann, the wife of a middle-class tailor and also of French descent. Despite her middle-class background, in the first English translation she was characterized as a peasant and given the name Gammer. It seems that the brothers were either deluded or dissembling, yet I can not really see it as a feminist revision, since the brothers still always stated that there main sources were female. It just seems that they were upper class rather than working class females.

Myth and magic - the first feminists? [theguardian.com]

Fernapple comments on Nov 18, 2019:

Interesting, and a new piece of literary history to me. But I do think that they are straw-manning the brothers Grimm, since they were not really on the same page or the same place at all.

Fernapple replies on Nov 18, 2019:

@Allamanda I don't think that the Grimms addressed them at all, not to write them out, but because as collectors of folklore, ( and they did credit their female sources, ) they were not in the same literary world as writers of imaginative fiction living in another country and another era. That would be like asking a writer of science fiction today, to credit A, Conan-Doyles, Shelock Holmes books. It is posssible that modern views of litrary history have made the Grimms into an elephant in fairy tale the room, but that is hardly their fault.

Philosophy vs. Religion

Cecilia2018 comments on Nov 14, 2019:

Thanks for an interesting topic. I'm not sure if you believe the description in your post but I believe in logic with my feet on the ground. Religions are full of misery, torture , fears and lies. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z9j7g1dfxIo

Fernapple replies on Nov 18, 2019:

@skado Here you go. On the origins of superstition. Skinner, B. F. "'Superstition' in the Pigeon", Journal of Experimental Psychology #38, 1947. Haselton, M.G.; Buss, D.M. (2003). "Biases in Social Judgment: Design Flaws or Design Features? Haselton, Martie G.; Nettle, Daniel; Andrews, Paul W. (2005). "The Evolution of Cognitive Bias" On the relations of superstition to culture historically. Henrich, Joseph; McElreath, Richard (2007). "Dual-inheritance theory: the evolution of human cultural capacities and cultural evolution" There is lots more and I am sure that following these leads will soon provide you with masses of data. However if you need more please ask. But for my part I consider that your request for scientific proof on a philosophical post, that was an assertion with out any, fully exposes the complete invalidity of your claim, and the double values which support it. I therefore regard this debate as finished and won, at this point.

Philosophy vs. Religion

Cecilia2018 comments on Nov 14, 2019:

Thanks for an interesting topic. I'm not sure if you believe the description in your post but I believe in logic with my feet on the ground. Religions are full of misery, torture , fears and lies. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z9j7g1dfxIo

Fernapple replies on Nov 18, 2019:

@skado I do not claim to be a scientist, and I think that the demand for scientific evidence begins to sound like clutching at straws. There is probably scientific evidence, and if I have the time I will search for some for you. However there are many true things for which there can never be scientific evidence, and I would hold that long forgotten attitudes are one such. Yet some things are so banal that we can accept them as true anyway. Such as. There is no scientific proof that my front door exists, yet since I walk in and out through it every day, I am sure it does. And the the idea presented I would hold to be at least that banal in its nature. However as I say I will spend some time doing your research for you. Though why someone who glorifies the " metaphorical" truth of his main sources should require scientific proof, is beyond me, unless double standards are being employed. I am certainly not using the god of the gaps argument however, since that can only be used by those who have the burden of proof, and since the debate started with your assertion, ( made without scientific proof, ) that religion not philosophy is the best control of fear. I am merely offering an alternative, with the assertion that it is the only possible route, and requiring a disproof of my alternative or a proof of your original position. The videos certainly do offer evidence of greed and the transfer of power, they show little else, since I have no doubt that all of the shaman are being paid for their services. And since greed and power are a proportional, and as the services are of doubtful real benefit, beyond perhaps a minor placebo effect, any monetary charge or prestige gained is unjust, and therefore greed, even if the shaman is quite genuine in his beliefs. The young sales-person who sells second hand cars on the forecourt, may be unaware that their employer turns the mileage back, and genuinely believes that the customer is getting a great deal. Yet the customer is still being cheated.

Philosophy vs. Religion

Cecilia2018 comments on Nov 14, 2019:

Thanks for an interesting topic. I'm not sure if you believe the description in your post but I believe in logic with my feet on the ground. Religions are full of misery, torture , fears and lies. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z9j7g1dfxIo