As an atheist how do you respond to “i’ll pray for you.”?, I normally just smile and nod.

Fernapple comments on Nov 1, 2019:

Its different here in the UK, I have never heard it said. I think that here, even christians would think it impolite to offer to pray for someone without permission, and would think it vain to tell people about it if they did.

Fernapple replies on Nov 1, 2019:

@averykings That could be very true.

As an atheist how do you respond to “i’ll pray for you.”?, I normally just smile and nod.

Fernapple comments on Nov 1, 2019:

Its different here in the UK, I have never heard it said. I think that here, even christians would think it impolite to offer to pray for someone without permission, and would think it vain to tell people about it if they did.

Fernapple replies on Nov 1, 2019:

@averykings Yes I understand that it is a different world. PS have added a bit more to my comment.

Old saying, "When you assume, you make an ASS of U and ME"

Fernapple comments on Sep 24, 2019:

A consequence of urban life and the breakdown of real community, is that we all have to meet more and more people who we know nothing of, that of course means that lazy people make more and more assumptions to save effort. a lot of modern moral thinking is about trying to find ways to persuade ...

Fernapple replies on Nov 1, 2019:

@Remiforce At least socially, I do think that it is to a large degree a modern problem, since it hardly existed at least when we lived in small issolated extended families, whose main outside contact was with other groups who were already perhaps well known to them.

IS CHANGE GOD?

Fernapple comments on Oct 31, 2019:

God always was an idea, but while you can test the idea of change, the idea of god is untestable. Therefore since I can also test the idea of my kitchen table, by that logic, my kitchen table may be god.

Fernapple replies on Oct 31, 2019:

@WilliamFleming Believe you me, I have heard that one used for real. Dressed up fancy, but the same basic logic.

Funny animal singing while bathing

Fernapple comments on Oct 31, 2019:

The Link does not work, sorry.

Fernapple replies on Oct 31, 2019:

@bobwjr Still does not work, but if they blocked it deliberately, for political reasons, and it is D. Trump sitting in his bath, I do not want to look anyway.

12 December election is going to play havoc with MPs Christmas card lists!

Fernapple comments on Oct 30, 2019:

I think that a fixed date election every year would be a good thing, and Dec 25th would work really well. After all for some reason most people do not work that day, no where is open and people get bored with nothing to do.

Fernapple replies on Oct 30, 2019:

@Simon1 Nothing, they still only get to vote for the same parties, the parties decide who gets the safe seats, so drunk or sober they still get the same MP.

The agnostic crowd is much more intelligent than the rest!! Sorry, but it is the truth.

Sticks48 comments on Oct 29, 2019:

49% of the population have an IQ of 99 or lower. I have blocked over 170 people on this site because I thought they were stupid or said really stupid things. Several have blocked me because they probably think I am stupid.

Fernapple replies on Oct 29, 2019:

@Allamanda You can unblock.

If you were a non believer in religion or god as a child did your school force you to say the Lords ...

Geoffrey51 comments on Oct 29, 2019:

Not forced, it was just what we did. Didn’t affect me at all I don’t think. I always had a problem with All Creatures Great And Small though. Didn’t like it for one minute. It was only when I got to my late 20’s I came across it again, I can’t remember how, but I realised that it was...

Fernapple replies on Oct 29, 2019:

You may enjoy this little factoid, because it really does sound like the almost perfect creationists response to Darwin, yet interestingly, and it came as quite a surprise to me, it was first published in 1848, eleven years before 'Origin Of Species' It may though have been a response to the already growing hypothisis of evolution, especially perhaps Chamber's 'Vestiages Of Creation'. Darwin is such a large elephant in the room, when we look backwards into history, that it is easy to overlook the fact, that evolution was already well established as and idea, when Origin Of Species came out.

I have been seen a pretty disturbing trend in social media among Atheists over the years.

Fernapple comments on Oct 27, 2019:

In any group of people, there are always going to be a few bad eggs and extremists who will misbehave. There are however a lot of atheists on this site, and as far as I can see there are very few who are abusive, and I certainly see no organized grouping intent on abusing theists deliberately. ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 29, 2019:

@Norman347 Yes that is true, though perhaps it is bound to be, since it is the intention of the vocal rabble, in any group, to become the unofficial poster children, that is their plan despite what others may do to stop them. I do tend to call them to question myself when I see them, but the truth is I do not see them that often on this site, in fact I often find people refering to things that are happening/trending on the site, which I have not seen at all. I think therefore that the site must vary a lot according to how you configure your settings.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

skado comments on Oct 24, 2019:

“If” it’s nonsense, of course it doesn’t matter. The question is... “is” it nonsense? It’s nonsense to think an egg can be used as a hammer, but the egg is not therefore useless - it still has nutrition to offer. It’s useless to think the language of metaphor can be used as ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 28, 2019:

@skado That is fine with me. However it is important not to overstress that aspect of it, because that is to risk thowing out a lot of complex motivations on the part of the writers, including the historical, political, sexual, economic and a lot which is simply meaning free.

[agnostic.com]

Mcflewster comments on Oct 27, 2019:

Does this also apply to logic?

Fernapple replies on Oct 27, 2019:

I don't know, whose Logic, and why don't you ask them ?

For a short while I own a vast golden treasure, and then the Ginkgo will drop its leaves.

Allamanda comments on Oct 27, 2019:

had no idea! I've never seen them do that!

Fernapple replies on Oct 27, 2019:

May be different in the US but here in the UK, they are grown especially for autumn colour as much as anything else.

math is so hard

Fernapple comments on Oct 25, 2019:

There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Fernapple replies on Oct 27, 2019:

@rogerbenham Nor me. Though I do find that the squares of two sequence, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 etc. is very useful, and crops up in a lot of things. And have often thought that it should be taught in schools alongside the times tables.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

skado comments on Oct 24, 2019:

“If” it’s nonsense, of course it doesn’t matter. The question is... “is” it nonsense? It’s nonsense to think an egg can be used as a hammer, but the egg is not therefore useless - it still has nutrition to offer. It’s useless to think the language of metaphor can be used as ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 27, 2019:

@skado Yes I agree wholly with that, that is my view too. (See my first comment on this post.) One of the things that make it interesting is the rich mosaic, of many different forms. The largest part being myth, with in addition some poetry, some tabloid trashy gossip, some genuine history, some news reportage and a few quite deliberate lies of political and religious propaganda intended to mislead. But that is why reading into it an intent on the part of the authors to do any one thing, including the deliberate writing of metaphor, just as much as thinking it to be literal truth, is so wrong. The authors, editors and translators, were so many, that their attitude to the mythalogical elements must have varied greatly, from regarding it as metaphor themselves, through simple literal belief, to seeing it as useful lies.

My local town on a rainy day.

Merseyman1 comments on Oct 26, 2019:

Beautiful town, unfortunately the spire collapsed and today Salisbury has the tallest spire and biggest cathedral...

Fernapple replies on Oct 27, 2019:

Yes my message should read, tallest spire on a parish church.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

skado comments on Oct 24, 2019:

“If” it’s nonsense, of course it doesn’t matter. The question is... “is” it nonsense? It’s nonsense to think an egg can be used as a hammer, but the egg is not therefore useless - it still has nutrition to offer. It’s useless to think the language of metaphor can be used as ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 26, 2019:

@skado And as I have said before I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is the idea that the bible was written with metaphor as its intention. I do not dream in written text, neither do I write while sleeping, whatever my sub conscious motivations may be when writing my intent when writing is quite conscious, and wholly contained within what you call the veneer. As it was in biblical times. The authors intent has nothing to do with the hidden motivations behind it, whatever others may read of those motivations. And since much of the bible is political propaganda, concerned with the claims that the Jewish people made to ownership of the lands. I am pretty confident that any suggestion, that the propaganda was anything but objective and rational, would, had you made it to a biblical author, have been met with a strong rebuttal if not a violent one, just as any suggestion of the sort about today's political propaganda would. It is simply too great an oversimplification to suggest that a book as complex as the bible is all of one sort, and has always to be read in just one way.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

skado comments on Oct 24, 2019:

“If” it’s nonsense, of course it doesn’t matter. The question is... “is” it nonsense? It’s nonsense to think an egg can be used as a hammer, but the egg is not therefore useless - it still has nutrition to offer. It’s useless to think the language of metaphor can be used as ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

@skado Yes but biblical times are today, in evolutionary terms. It is unlikely anything has changed in that short a time.

My local town on a rainy day.

Lincoln55 comments on Oct 25, 2019:

That looks so familiar to me. Now I'll be searching through old photos.

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

Would you like me to tell you or are you enjoying the hunt ?

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

skado comments on Oct 24, 2019:

“If” it’s nonsense, of course it doesn’t matter. The question is... “is” it nonsense? It’s nonsense to think an egg can be used as a hammer, but the egg is not therefore useless - it still has nutrition to offer. It’s useless to think the language of metaphor can be used as ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

@skado No why ?

My local town on a rainy day.

ToolGuy comments on Oct 25, 2019:

Great church photo. But I did not like the redacted photo. The big black blob detracted from whatever the photo was about.

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

@ToolGuy Good advice, thanks, though I have not found a blur feature on my photo editor yet, and the main point was the chuch scene, the other photo was just for added fun.

My local town on a rainy day.

ToolGuy comments on Oct 25, 2019:

Great church photo. But I did not like the redacted photo. The big black blob detracted from whatever the photo was about.

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

Yep, we should keep a digital face data base, so that we can spot them and mock them wherever they go. Whatever was I thinking of.

Stephen Hawking famously said that "Philosophy is dead." What do you think?

IamNobody comments on Oct 25, 2019:

When/where did Stephen Hawking said that? Any reference please?

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

Good question.

Anyone ever notice that the crucified Jesus is shown in pictures as being both nailed and also tied ...

brentan comments on Oct 25, 2019:

This was very important when I was a Jehovah's Witness. I think stake is correct (Greek stauros, if memory serves well). If so, I guess one hand had to be placed behind the other and a nail put hammered through the two of them. This would put more strain on the nail (poor nail!) than one nail per ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

That is a very good point that it was perhaps a stake and not a cross which was used, one common explanation for this however is that it was both. The stake being a fixture, and the cross/cross bar being the part carried by the victim. This makes since since the crowd would not want to watch while holes were dug and stakes planted, but watching the victim being lifted or hoisted into place may well have been part of the entertainment.

Science vs religion Atheist historical nogodexists aincentphilosophy Agonostic

Pedrohbds comments on Oct 24, 2019:

The idea of the text is correct, but to tell 33 AD or say that Epicurus said that is completely wrong. First, he died before 200AC so he was not saying much stuff on 33AC Second The idea of a monotheistic all powerful god was restricted to some tribes in the middle east, although Alexanders ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

@Pedrohbds No I do not know where the AD 33 comes from on this picture quote, unless it is one of the supposed dates of the crucifiction, and that someone is trying, badly and unclearly, to relate it to the origins of Chritianity.

Stephen Hawking famously said that "Philosophy is dead." What do you think?

Fernapple comments on Oct 25, 2019:

In the past a lot of philosophy was concerned with the business of describing how the material world worked, as was religion. In those roles, certainly one philosophy, natural philosophy, which we now call science, superseded all the others, when it developed the scientific method, which set a ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

@Pedrohbds Yes, I quite agree. But please note that I did qualify my statement with the words, "to a large degree". Please read carefully.

Science vs religion Atheist historical nogodexists aincentphilosophy Agonostic

Pedrohbds comments on Oct 24, 2019:

The idea of the text is correct, but to tell 33 AD or say that Epicurus said that is completely wrong. First, he died before 200AC so he was not saying much stuff on 33AC Second The idea of a monotheistic all powerful god was restricted to some tribes in the middle east, although Alexanders ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

It is certainly wrong to attribute this quote to Epicurus. (See Geoffrey51 above for a history.) However it is also wrong to assume that, monotheism only began with some tribes in the middle east. Many of the classical authors use a monotheist god idea metaphorically, and it exists as such, in many polytheisic cultures such as Hinduism. The Pharaoh Akhenaten also promoted it as a literal truth. It is in any case such a moronically simplistic idea, that it would be hard to imagine that it has not always existed across many cultures. While certainly any even moderately intelligent thinker, and there is no reason to supose that Epicurus was not that, could have concieved the idea for himself if only for metaphorical use.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

skado comments on Oct 24, 2019:

“If” it’s nonsense, of course it doesn’t matter. The question is... “is” it nonsense? It’s nonsense to think an egg can be used as a hammer, but the egg is not therefore useless - it still has nutrition to offer. It’s useless to think the language of metaphor can be used as ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

"Symbolic imagery has a much longer history in the human story than literal, descriptive prose does." Is merely an assertion based on a subjective judgement about early writings, there can never be objective evidence for the motivations of any authors without their own direct testamony to their intentions. Before accepting that, I would like to get in your time machine with you and go back to observe for myself, when you interview one of the authors of a book like the bible please. Until then I will go with another literary figure from the past, L. Tolstoy, when he said that human nature does not change with the passage of time. At least not on historical time scales. And the Bible at least does not fall into that early period, certainly from the six century BCE until the fall of classical culture, literature was as rich and diverse in forms as it is today. From the early objective science of Aristotle, to the overt political propaganda the Pharaohs inscribed on their many monuments, to the tabloid gossip of Herodotus, the beautiful objectivity of Euclid, and the careful studies of the human condition made by the Stoic philosophers. (Yes, I do know about Plato too, but even his thoughts are a mixture, with many direct objective inclusions.) To say that. "Symbolic imagery has a much longer history in the human story than literal, descriptive prose does." Is either to deny the great richness of human creativity, and see people in the past as belonging to a primitive race not truly human as modern people are. Or to go the other way, and if you believe that the literature of, "symbolic imagery" is in some way a higher form than others, then you create a Golden Age myth which is equally false. And yes of course most of human subjective experience is totally meaningless, though I would not put it as high as 99%. Because so is most of human thought, including our best attempts at being objective. Just because something is expressed subjectively does not mean that it is correct, only that it does not offer itself to objective disproof.

George Bernard Shaw - “All religions begin with a revolt against morality, and perish when ...

brentan comments on Oct 24, 2019:

I wonder what he meant.

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

He meant that old religions are often evil, and that in the end they are changed and overthrown by new religions with better standards of morality, which then in turn loose their morality and sink into evil, until they two are overturned. He thought that that meant progress, but it does of course also mean that there is always some religion out there, which is preserving ultra conservative and debased morality, so that religion is a constant brake on progress.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

Fernapple comments on Oct 24, 2019:

The main thing to remember about the bible is it history. The bible is not a book, in fact it is a scrap book of cuttings, containing parts from at least sixty six books, written by forty or more authors, and put together by numberless editors over more than a thousand years, and then frequently ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 25, 2019:

@skado Fair enough.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

Fernapple comments on Oct 24, 2019:

The main thing to remember about the bible is it history. The bible is not a book, in fact it is a scrap book of cuttings, containing parts from at least sixty six books, written by forty or more authors, and put together by numberless editors over more than a thousand years, and then frequently ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 24, 2019:

@skado Yes, and as I said before, I have no problem with the academic and scientific study of religion as such. My problem is with the pseudo-science of theology when it claims to work within the Christian cultural tradition. Because by so doing it supports and fosters that cultural tradition and all the evils that go with it. Some things are just not acceptable even in the name of science. The theologians are guilty of the same sort of moral blindness used by those scientists and pseudo-scientists who collaborated with the Nazis in the death camps, because that would allow them the chance to conduct experiments on living humans. The experiments of the theologians are not so immediately inhuman, and take place at one step removed, yet they still share the guilt for all the deaths and miseries caused to millions which religion inflicts every year, because they remain one of the main props of religion.

Some parts of the bible are nice and some are nasty.

Fernapple comments on Oct 24, 2019:

The main thing to remember about the bible is it history. The bible is not a book, in fact it is a scrap book of cuttings, containing parts from at least sixty six books, written by forty or more authors, and put together by numberless editors over more than a thousand years, and then frequently ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 24, 2019:

@skado True, but how can any of the millions of christians look at the bible in a scientific way, since its culture is so deeply rooted as to prevent any objective study, only a none christian could do that.

What is one of your favorite sayings?

Dancing comments on Oct 23, 2019:

Fake it, till you make it.

Fernapple replies on Oct 23, 2019:

Advice given by priests to many church goers I hear. LOL ( Sorry not going down the bedroom humour route.)

Here is a rather interesting religious twist

Fernapple comments on Oct 23, 2019:

If you are going to pick a fictional hero, why not go for Whinny the Pooh's Eeyore, a much wiser and far more realistic persona. With a really good take on stoic philosophy.

Fernapple replies on Oct 23, 2019:

@LenHazell53 No, thanks for the tip.

“When you stick your butt out, you get your temperature taken.” Danish saying

Killtheskyfairy comments on Oct 22, 2019:

The Danish are weird.

Fernapple replies on Oct 23, 2019:

@altschmerz Perhaps more, called into question, than criticized maybe ?

Anyone else NOT raised in a religious family?

Fernapple comments on Oct 22, 2019:

No real religion or interest in it in my upbringing, which is fairly commonplace in the UK.

Fernapple replies on Oct 23, 2019:

@St-Sinner Yes of course. First, because what does the church have to offer, which is more than an alternative community to that run by the state. Two, because when the church is an agent of the state it is tainted by the crimes of the political establishment, and embarrassed by being an apologist for the political establishment and the crimes of that state. Three, it has no competitive profit motive to drive it but it under prices the other churches. The church is at its strongest in Russia of all countries, because the government tried to ban it.

Anyone else NOT raised in a religious family?

Fernapple comments on Oct 22, 2019:

No real religion or interest in it in my upbringing, which is fairly commonplace in the UK.

Fernapple replies on Oct 22, 2019:

@St-Sinner In a lot of Europe, the UK included, there are state churches, and there is nothing that kills religion quite as fast. If the Us did not have separation of church and state, it would probably be dead there as well.

It seems life never stops stomping on me.

Fernapple comments on Oct 22, 2019:

You are not alone, there are a lot of people here , who will value your input. And if things get really bad message some of those near you and meet up. Most of all if you are isolated think about travel, there is a whole world out there, and we live in the first age when travel is really easy, and ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 22, 2019:

@Sharkymama Everyone, on line or not, always has more friends than they think, we always underestimate how much people care. Kind words don't always solve problemsbut sometimes they are the best you can give, they come with good wishes.

Not all who wander are lost...

Fernapple comments on Oct 21, 2019:

Beer.

Fernapple replies on Oct 22, 2019:

@snytiger6 Sounds wonderful, be careful, you could get me believing in heaven.

Why so many posts about God?

1of5 comments on Oct 21, 2019:

I agree, but it is supposedly what "binds us together as a group" and shit so will be a common topic. I think we should explore the mythology behind *Grimm's Fairy Tales* myself. Much more interesting, better moral teachings, and much much less genocide.

Fernapple replies on Oct 22, 2019:

@OldMetalHead I did not know that bit about China, thank you for sharing, I will look that up.

Why so many posts about God?

1of5 comments on Oct 21, 2019:

I agree, but it is supposedly what "binds us together as a group" and shit so will be a common topic. I think we should explore the mythology behind *Grimm's Fairy Tales* myself. Much more interesting, better moral teachings, and much much less genocide.

Fernapple replies on Oct 21, 2019:

Don't forget Whinny the Pooh.

Life is constantly throwing bad news at us.

Fernapple comments on Oct 21, 2019:

Always took the stoic view, that if you expect the worst, life will always turn out better than you expected. I usually assume a very bleak outlook and life seems good. Only disappointed optimists fall into Cynicism and depression. I also remember that there is little profit for anyone in telling ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 21, 2019:

@Allamanda Simple. Man dies of heart attack in street, equals news story in the papers next day. Yesterday the local hospital saved the lives of twenty heart attack victims, just as it does on average every day. Who would report that. Also see my second comment on this post above, they are quite long videos, and not the one I was looking for, (will keep trying) but I think you will find them rewarding.

LOL 😂 well, the bible was translated so many times! How do we really know??!

Fernapple comments on Oct 21, 2019:

Come on, he hung about with twelve other men, who he told to leave their families behind and love one another, just as the country was being culturally colonized by the Greeks who idealized homosexuality as the highest form of love. Come on who are you kidding. LOL

Fernapple replies on Oct 21, 2019:

@vjohnson51 Yes, on a serious note it is true that the feeling that you get from early christianity is that homosexuallity would have been quite normal, the old testament view was after all completely out of fashion with thinking people at that time.

LOL 😂 well, the bible was translated so many times! How do we really know??!

Fernapple comments on Oct 21, 2019:

Come on, he hung about with twelve other men, who he told to leave their families behind and love one another, just as the country was being culturally colonized by the Greeks who idealized homosexuality as the highest form of love. Come on who are you kidding. LOL

Fernapple replies on Oct 21, 2019:

@hankster No he had a donkey for that..........or maybe ?

“It is not in the stars hold our destiny but in ourselves”.............William Shakespeare.

IamNobody comments on Oct 21, 2019:

I have mentioned few times that I don't "speak" Shakespeare, however this one is crystal clear. I couldn't agree more. Good things are my glory, bad things are my own fault. After many times around the Sun, this is accurate for me.

Fernapple replies on Oct 21, 2019:

"After many times around the Sun," So you don't read Shakespeare but you do write Shakespeare.

Ok.

KKGator comments on Oct 20, 2019:

That depends on what is being proffered as to whether I will bash. I make no promises

Fernapple replies on Oct 20, 2019:

You need make no promises, when it comes to bash or not, we all know which way you will go. LOL. And long may you do so.

We made too many wrong mistakes. - Yogi Berra

Marionville comments on Oct 20, 2019:

Is there a right mistake?

Fernapple replies on Oct 20, 2019:

Sounds a lot wiser than it really is. Me thinks.

Sssssooooo, if god was/is/use to be without form and void, to the point that there was nothing ...

Davesnothere comments on Oct 18, 2019:

Conflates the TWO origin stories in Genesis, Chapter one and Chapter two. In one its "Male and female -- be fruitful and multiply" Chapter 2 is Adam and Eve. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 19, 2019:

@dahermit Could be. LOL

Sssssooooo, if god was/is/use to be without form and void, to the point that there was nothing ...

Davesnothere comments on Oct 18, 2019:

Conflates the TWO origin stories in Genesis, Chapter one and Chapter two. In one its "Male and female -- be fruitful and multiply" Chapter 2 is Adam and Eve. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 19, 2019:

@Seeker3CO Cattle in the King James at least may just mean quadropeds in general, just being an old usage. And I think that at one point even women are listed as cattle.

Something sad, but beautiful. Both the video and its content. [youtube.com]

Mermaidfantasy comments on Oct 18, 2019:

They did not mention that fact that bonobo's are the most sexual of all primates, even us. They are not monogamous and use sex as a way of bonding, stress relief and for pleasure. Thought I would add that little bit of knowledge about them. Very sad anyone would want to harm such a loving animal.

Fernapple replies on Oct 18, 2019:

Actually they did mention it right at the begining, but then said that that was not the subject of this video.

The importance of being literate...

allmighty comments on Oct 18, 2019:

Cheap and nasty.

Fernapple replies on Oct 18, 2019:

@Deb57 I think he may be talking about the so called dildo, not you. Perhaps the penny did not drop as not all men are familiar with womens styling products. LOL

I hate to say it, but in the last few months this whole site has become inundated with a lot of very...

Fernapple comments on Oct 17, 2019:

Discussion, debate, talk and conversation, are all great things, but are of no use if different people do not bring different things to the table. An echo chamber is just an empty box. We all hopefully learn from different opinions, and that learning helps to raise the standard of debate. While ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 18, 2019:

@Davesnothere Yep you got it. LOL Do you know I have to drive nearly seven miles to buy a pack of biscuits.

I hate to say it, but in the last few months this whole site has become inundated with a lot of very...

Fernapple comments on Oct 17, 2019:

Discussion, debate, talk and conversation, are all great things, but are of no use if different people do not bring different things to the table. An echo chamber is just an empty box. We all hopefully learn from different opinions, and that learning helps to raise the standard of debate. While ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 18, 2019:

@Davesnothere, @Stephanie99 Yep. Me too It is not a big issue, I would rather spend time in the gardening and photography groups.

I hate to say it, but in the last few months this whole site has become inundated with a lot of very...

Fernapple comments on Oct 17, 2019:

Discussion, debate, talk and conversation, are all great things, but are of no use if different people do not bring different things to the table. An echo chamber is just an empty box. We all hopefully learn from different opinions, and that learning helps to raise the standard of debate. While ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 18, 2019:

@Davesnothere Only deep backwoods by UK standards, not by US, in fact not remotely by US. LOL

Terry Eagleton Interview - Thanks, Matias for inroducing him here. Fascinating! [youtube.com]

Geoffrey51 comments on Oct 17, 2019:

He seems a bit fixated on Dawkins, Islam and Jesus. I don’t know when the interview was but he has taken the Islamic v the West red herring in both hands and run with it. He seems to object to Dawkins thinking which, now a bit tedious, does have value for Western critical thinking, whether ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 18, 2019:

@skado That is where the problem lies. A physicist may will be an expert on physics, but would not make statements biology or chemistry, or except in general terms, science as a whole. Therefore a theologian should not claim that there is a single essence of Christianity, in which he may indeed be an expert, and that his view therefore stands for all. Neither would an honest journalist claim to express the opinions of paper-boys, even though he is higher in the profession than them. In the interview he give the essence of Christianity as, the view basic that, altruistic ideology will get you killed by the state. Well I am sorry, but though you may well make a good case for that as a good interpretation of some parts of the biblical story, but that is just cherry picking of the worst sort. (And I know it is a short interview. ) Christianity is rich and complex and so is the bible, there is no one essence that fits all, any more than we have as yet a final single theory of everything in science. The fact that he feels willing to cherry pick his own favourite interpretation of a small part of that, and use it to represent the whole, speak exactly to the sort of intellectual dishonesty which is the religion lite position. Time after time you encounter exactly this deliberate ignoring of the bigger picture in order to justify religion lite. It speaks to the lowest form of intellectual dishonesty, and the lack of moral integrity which is religion lite. And the spoiled child, have my cake and eat it, or rather, have my sham authority without having to defend that which gives authority, or recognize that authority myself, mentality which is the rotten core of religion lite.

I hate to say it, but in the last few months this whole site has become inundated with a lot of very...

Fernapple comments on Oct 17, 2019:

Discussion, debate, talk and conversation, are all great things, but are of no use if different people do not bring different things to the table. An echo chamber is just an empty box. We all hopefully learn from different opinions, and that learning helps to raise the standard of debate. While ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 18, 2019:

@LucyLoohoo I don't I just try to treat them all alike and fairly, give honest answers, and sooner or later they turn into one or the other. Yesterday a couple of posts appeared from a level two, asking. Who is the father of atheism ? and When did atheism first appear ? I suspect leading questions, from perhaps an innocent posted because someone had tutored her into it, in the hopes of getting an answer which would lead them into being able to use the sad old , "Atheism is based on faith." argument. In reply I simply said that atheism is probably age old, has no father figure, is probably older than any existing religions, and gave a short history of it back to ancient times. If she was a troll, then she did not get anything she could use, and if she was a genuinely curious person then she got a few interesting starter facts to spark thinking or research. Same answer served either way. Does not work every time but 99%. I wanted to give you a link to the posts, but I see they have gone. Which is sad because it either means , she was a troll and she got deleted or did a runner, or she was mistaken for one, which is very sad because, I think that such people should be encouraged to a degree.

Who would be interested in having this done?

MsAl comments on Oct 17, 2019:

So.. they are removing the skin with the tattoo..?? If so, no. that's creepy. If not I'm not sure I understand what they are surgically removing..

Fernapple replies on Oct 17, 2019:

I understand that in Japan the gangsters have their skins dried and preserved to keep the tattoos, and that is an old custom. Perhaps this is something new, such as removing the ink from under the skin and transfering it to paper.

Terry Eagleton Interview - Thanks, Matias for inroducing him here. Fascinating! [youtube.com]

Geoffrey51 comments on Oct 17, 2019:

He seems a bit fixated on Dawkins, Islam and Jesus. I don’t know when the interview was but he has taken the Islamic v the West red herring in both hands and run with it. He seems to object to Dawkins thinking which, now a bit tedious, does have value for Western critical thinking, whether ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 17, 2019:

@skado Yes but in this video he does present himself as such. And christian theology is not physics. Physics is a dicipline with strict edges, and people can not self define as physicists. Whereas christianity is subjective and anyone can self define as a christian. Are you saying then that my village vicar is not a christian ?

I hate to say it, but in the last few months this whole site has become inundated with a lot of very...

Fernapple comments on Oct 17, 2019:

Discussion, debate, talk and conversation, are all great things, but are of no use if different people do not bring different things to the table. An echo chamber is just an empty box. We all hopefully learn from different opinions, and that learning helps to raise the standard of debate. While ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 17, 2019:

@LucyLoohoo Yes that may be true, and I get fed up with the same old arguments, nothing new and nothing even logical enough to be interesting. But I live out in the deep backwoods, where any sort of discussion with anybody about anything seems worthwhile. And you have to remember that among the vast hoards, will be many who are taking the first, and sometimes the last few, tentetive steps up the ladder out of the cesspit of ignorance, sometimes even an odd chance remark may be all that is needed to gain a couple of vital rungs, if you bother to talk to them.

Terry Eagleton Interview - Thanks, Matias for inroducing him here. Fascinating! [youtube.com]

Geoffrey51 comments on Oct 17, 2019:

He seems a bit fixated on Dawkins, Islam and Jesus. I don’t know when the interview was but he has taken the Islamic v the West red herring in both hands and run with it. He seems to object to Dawkins thinking which, now a bit tedious, does have value for Western critical thinking, whether ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 17, 2019:

@Geoffrey51 Yes perhaps I was not clear, I am not criticising his theological position either, only his assumtion that his theological possition and that of a few like him, is effectively the same thing as christianity. As to the Dawkins point he is perhaps being facecious when he says. " The only thing I know about Dawkins was that his wife was in Doctor Who." But it come over as saying. "I have not read him at all."

Terry Eagleton Interview - Thanks, Matias for inroducing him here. Fascinating! [youtube.com]

Geoffrey51 comments on Oct 17, 2019:

He seems a bit fixated on Dawkins, Islam and Jesus. I don’t know when the interview was but he has taken the Islamic v the West red herring in both hands and run with it. He seems to object to Dawkins thinking which, now a bit tedious, does have value for Western critical thinking, whether ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 17, 2019:

He talks about straw man versions of Christianity used by modern atheists, and then defends his christianity, which he says is the chistianty of a few theologians like himself in resent times. So let me get this right, taking christianity to mean the broard spectrum of christianity, that the vastly greatest number of chritians follow today, and that everyone followed for the previous two thousand years, is straw maning christianity, but pretending that the christainty of, an almost none existant minority, in the last hundred years is the real thing, is not a straw man argument. PS. Why single out Dawkins after saying that he knows almost nothing of Dawkins.

So I've recently been looking at the Bible again, and I found a lot of things that contradict, and a...

Sadanty comments on Oct 17, 2019:

All religious texts, back to the beginning of of the creation of religion have the same problem. It is inherent. I see them more as an effort in creative writing focusing on morality tales and norms.

Fernapple replies on Oct 17, 2019:

True, though a lot of the babble is poliitical propaganda too.

Paris zoo exhibits the world's weirdest living thing | TreeHugger

Charlene comments on Oct 16, 2019:

Learning, obviously , depends on a central nervous system, life is amazing!

Fernapple replies on Oct 17, 2019:

@bobwjr No, you mean the other way round, having a central nervous system does not mean that you can learn.

This has not been my best year for plants (gone too much) but the natives are still beautiful.

Cast1es comments on Oct 16, 2019:

Clementis ?

Fernapple replies on Oct 16, 2019:

They were said to represent the crucifiction, with three nails and a crown of thorns etc. a common case of religious empirialism, trying to claim everything, even botany.

What is the difference between Baptists and Catholics?

PickledRick comments on Oct 15, 2019:

Back when I was forced to abide by my parents catholic theological beliefs there was a priest who smoked ciggies and drank a lot. He died in bed when the rectory burned down, possibly from smoking in bed while intoxicated. Or so the rumor claims.

Fernapple replies on Oct 15, 2019:

Obviously his god wanted him, and quick. I wonder at what point disregarding health and safety, stops being a way to show contempt for this temporal life, which may be good in their eyes, and starts being slow suicide which is a sin. LOL

Please provide your definition of the phrase "common sense".

Fernapple comments on Oct 14, 2019:

It can mean a lot of things depending on the person using the phrase and the subject. Usually it is most used by people who have it the least. Sometimes it is just another cheap anti-intellectual shot, like "geek", "nerd" and "bluestockings", but if there is any thing called common sense which ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 14, 2019:

@slydr68 Getting a bit old fashioned now, but it does have some charm, at least more than 'Geek' etc. Perhaps never used in the US but often used in the UK. A bluestockings, is a female academic and intellectual, so called because it was thought that they wore thick woollen blue stockings, to cope with the cold in academic institutions. When truly feminine women, of course, wore fine silk or nylon, in pretty colours. It is of course horribly sexist as well as anti-intellectual.

“I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the ...

Fernapple comments on Oct 14, 2019:

And the need to do what everyone wants as well.

Fernapple replies on Oct 14, 2019:

@MissKathleen Well said.

[sciencenews.

Robecology comments on Oct 13, 2019:

The video "shows what happens"...but it's still a computer-generated video...not the actual photographs.

Fernapple replies on Oct 14, 2019:

Did not give a time scale either.

[yesmagazine.

Robecology comments on Oct 13, 2019:

It's not Menohorror, or Menodamnation...it's just "menopause" ...a pause, or tapering off of the menses cycle. Maybe we just should let go of the "stigma"...

Fernapple replies on Oct 14, 2019:

@AnonySchmoose The Freedom.

Should trump's mouth be washed out with soap?

WilliamFleming comments on Oct 13, 2019:

I hear those expressions a lot, and I am to the point of not even noticing. There is a sharp divide however. Those who are religious and attend churches seldom or never say naughty words. Trump is not very religious. That “F” word, so common on this forum however, is one so disturbing to me ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 14, 2019:

@Remiforce Same here, I worked in a factory for a while in youth. Would not take like that now.

Should trump's mouth be washed out with soap?

WilliamFleming comments on Oct 13, 2019:

I hear those expressions a lot, and I am to the point of not even noticing. There is a sharp divide however. Those who are religious and attend churches seldom or never say naughty words. Trump is not very religious. That “F” word, so common on this forum however, is one so disturbing to me ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2019:

@WilliamFleming No, I did not know any of those words until I came on this site. LOL. But seriously no, I guess I may have been a bit po faced as a child, and always thought that a little childish, plus beating children was still fashionable here when I was a kid.

Should trump's mouth be washed out with soap?

WilliamFleming comments on Oct 13, 2019:

I hear those expressions a lot, and I am to the point of not even noticing. There is a sharp divide however. Those who are religious and attend churches seldom or never say naughty words. Trump is not very religious. That “F” word, so common on this forum however, is one so disturbing to me ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2019:

"From a strictly rational perspective words ought not matter much." That is true, interestingly I am told that in some languages, Japaness for example,, there are no bad words, all words are regarded as polite.

H. G. Wells on the Roman empire, anything sounding familiar ?

Marionville comments on Oct 13, 2019:

All that and ....hubris, the downfall of many an empire!

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2019:

There are over fifty reasons listed by some people, see mcgeo52 below, but there is no doubt that hubris was behind most of the.

H. G. Wells on the Roman empire, anything sounding familiar ?

mcgeo52 comments on Oct 13, 2019:

That and lead in their food and water. Of course we don't have lead in our water. Not in the good ol' US of A.

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2019:

PS. You may have a lot of funny things in your water. LOL

H. G. Wells on the Roman empire, anything sounding familiar ?

mcgeo52 comments on Oct 13, 2019:

That and lead in their food and water. Of course we don't have lead in our water. Not in the good ol' US of A.

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2019:

Glad you mentioned that, because it is of course a wonderful new addition to the list of over fifty reasons that have been found for the decline of Rome, including climate change, monetry inflation, christianity, the cost of repeated civil wars, crop failier, political upheavals beyond the borders etc. many of which were not known or understood in Wells days. But interestingly he was in this case talking about a much earlier phase, and the decline of democracy and the republic, though no doubt the seeds of the fall of empire were sown then. In fact that is his main theme. But of course perhaps the main reason for the fall, was simply that it outgrew itself, the bigger it got the less Roman it became, and the further away and the less important to most people in the empire, Rome itself became, until at last the core was just a funny little sidelined city, to be fought over as a prize by the many foreign kings who lived within its borders, each declaring themself emperor, and getting zero respect from the others.

“If you do good, people will accuse you of having selfish ulterior motives.

IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2019:

We do good because it makes us feel good about ourselves. If people accuse us of selfish motives then likely they are not completely far off.

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2019:

@Marionville Yes getting a bit off topic there, but it was more about IamNobody's comment than the main post.

I was happy to meet a fellow member tonight.

Fernapple comments on Oct 13, 2019:

Good for you. Don't think I will ever meet another member, I live right out in the rural backwoods, at least by UK standards.

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2019:

@OwlInASack Yep Ripon is quite a way, two hours at least. I have thought, in the past, of messaging all the local members just to see if any are still active, and ask if they want to do an anti-christmas lunch if I get enough replies. But we are very thin on the ground in Linc's, and there seem to be a lot of fossil acounts on the site.

“If you do good, people will accuse you of having selfish ulterior motives.

IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2019:

We do good because it makes us feel good about ourselves. If people accuse us of selfish motives then likely they are not completely far off.

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2019:

@Marionville Perhaps. But for example, is it easier to steal something you don't want for the trill, try to conceal what you are doing, and then evade capture, or do you just flash the plastic and give it to a homeless person?

“If you do good, people will accuse you of having selfish ulterior motives.

IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2019:

We do good because it makes us feel good about ourselves. If people accuse us of selfish motives then likely they are not completely far off.

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2019:

@IamNobody Come on, we know full well that you are not half as nasty as you pretend to be. Personal hygene may be another issue but since we have only met on line I can not comment about that.

“If you do good, people will accuse you of having selfish ulterior motives.

IamNobody comments on Oct 13, 2019:

We do good because it makes us feel good about ourselves. If people accuse us of selfish motives then likely they are not completely far off.

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2019:

No, that's only a bit rue. A lot of the time we do good just because we have to do something, and life is dull, and sometimes because doing bad is a lot more effort.

A pastor at a church I went to w/my grandmother when I was a teen said that "reading Revelations is ...

creative51 comments on Oct 12, 2019:

That would be quite a book to do that. But the modest amount of reading I have done it, there seems to be no such effect. Oh well, it is what it is, a book of myths interspersed with names of real places and names of historical figures. BTW that technique is Fiction 101, spice up your fiction by ...

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2019:

It actually gets a lot of its geography wrong, not as bad as its history, but still way out. Possibly because the writers did not live near the sites they wrote about, or they had never left their own villages.

Why do they worship?

Hominid comments on Oct 13, 2019:

Out of a sense of awe. Ask me how I know...

Fernapple replies on Oct 13, 2019:

How ?

Just brought to my attention by an American correspondent is this 2 year old Deutsche Welle posting ...

altschmerz comments on Oct 11, 2019:

THIS is why we need the nausea reaction back!!

Fernapple replies on Oct 12, 2019:

Best thing left is 'sad'. Sadly.

Three points to go for level eight and this post should do it. :-)

skado comments on Oct 11, 2019:

Order a size bigger. They are small.

Fernapple replies on Oct 11, 2019:

@WilliamFleming If you don't identify as atheist or agnostic, then wear it. And tell people you are complex.

"Never ask more of fortune than she is able to grant.

Marionville comments on Oct 11, 2019:

Yes he bit off more than he could chew a few times..eventually meeting his Waterloo! To mix up my metaphors with my idioms!

Fernapple replies on Oct 11, 2019:

Keep mixing and then give a good stir.

Q:202821 So why was it deleted? EDIT: I found an old post where I used it – here it is:

Fernapple comments on Oct 11, 2019:

Yep, the emoji list was longer once, but not unmanageable, I keep asking for a 'thank you' as well, but so far no good.

Fernapple replies on Oct 11, 2019:

@altschmerz Yes I miss that one too, and I have used it, Only once or twice mind.

Do people just know know about this site?

Remiforce comments on Oct 9, 2019:

Hide behind a avatar & screen handle & use a VPN to hide your IP. Hopefully nobody will find out who you are

Fernapple replies on Oct 10, 2019:

@Triphid Remiforce comes from the US and I think they are planning to bring burning back.

Sage words for the depressed.

Fernapple comments on Oct 10, 2019:

Beer.

Fernapple replies on Oct 10, 2019:

@altschmerz You can get that in Belgium, its a traditional beverage there. Sadly not here in the UK as far as I know. Though one reason for prefering beer is that I am intolerant of chocolate, only tiny amounts allowed, thankfully not beer.

Ok today's minor feature.

Fernapple comments on Jun 25, 2019:

I see antifred is fairly high on my list, bet a few more of you have got him too ? There you go antifred.

Fernapple replies on Oct 10, 2019:

@LimitedLight Antifred was a theist, who got kicked out a little while ago for being a troll. Sadly however of all the michief makers who came to the site, he was by far the most fun, generally polite, and often pleasant. Although he came to oppose he was regarded with pleasure by many members, and treated as a sort of mad uncle in the attic. His posts could often be very sharp, but then sometimes quite mad and rambling, ( I think a chemical was involved. ) Some of us will miss him.

The secret of happiness is often said to be many things, such as living in the moment, awareness, ...

Remiforce comments on Oct 9, 2019:

One of the main tenets of Buddhism is that suffering, which includes unhappiness, comes from attachment which is caused by desire. Desire can be for good things, like winning the million dollar lottery, or for avoiding bad things, like old age, sickness, & death. As long as we have desire we have...

Fernapple replies on Oct 10, 2019:

Yes that is just it, and one of the best summing ups of the basic problems of the modern human condition I have read in a long while.

I wonder which company is responsible for this outrage - [effa.org.au]

Fernapple comments on Oct 9, 2019:

Does it matter which, are there any that would not ?

Fernapple replies on Oct 10, 2019:

@FrayedBear True. And that effects the cultures of the others perhaps.

JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS! Don't you just love it when Christians spout, "Jesus died for your ...

skado comments on Oct 8, 2019:

Of *course* it's crap if you interpret it literally. But it wasn't "intended" that way. It's intended (consciously or otherwise) to be symbolic of certain very real psychological processes. Theists who are literalists (most) miss the perennial (universal) relationships in those stories. Atheists...

Fernapple replies on Oct 10, 2019:

@skado No as you say. "You don’t have to be a genius psychoanalyst to write poetry that resonates with your fellow humans for millennia,". But writing poetry that resonates and has deep psychoanalytic meaning, especially if taken metaphorically, and believing in the literal truth of what you write, are not mutually exclusive. Indeed someone who writes with a strong belief in the literal truth of their words, is more likely to tap into deeper meaning. Also as you say the authors could not have been aware of the "enlightenment thinking we take for granted" and in the absence of that, it has to be asked how else were they to see the world, except through the lens of their own time and the literal truth of the widespread beliefs of those times. Even today they are geniuses indeed, who can escape their own cultures. And that is the deepest problem, which is that, as you also say. "Evolution doesn’t change much in two K years." People in the past were indeed just like us, and do you see huge numbers of books of metaphorical poetry being written today, and especially not having a major effect on society, in a world where books of any type, would have to be published in large numbers because of the large scale of the modern publishing industry. Yes there are one or two, I have seen several times on this site people quoting K. Gibran for example, but they are not many. For the most part most modern writing is everyday, and the vast volume of modern writing, by far the greatest part and sometimes the most influential part, is tabloid trash. The most important books of the last century, arguably, Mine Kampf, Das Capital, and The Protocols of Zion, none of them great poetic works. And the proof of this is surely is in the content, that the bible is filled with exactly the same sort of tabloid trash you can read in most cheap newspapers today, and yes of course you can with profit, read deep metaphors about the human condition into the contents of the tabloid papers, for the trashiest literature does indeed tap deepest into our inner secrets. It is not that people in the modern age are more advanced intellectually than people in the Bronze Age, for I believe that most progress is an illusion and that it is the curse of humans, to repeat the same mistakes of the past over and over again. It is not that I see the people of the past as different from us, quite the opposite, they were just like us, it is rather that the opposite view seeing books like the bible as having great intended metaphor, is guilty of setting up a 'Golden Age' myth, when the world of the past was the world of great heros and giants. Also it is true that we do not know who the original authors were. What we do know however, is that all the books of the bible passed through the hands ...

In solving problems 'In general' how useful is the phrase.

Fernapple comments on Oct 9, 2019:

Not at all. It is far too vague and banal to be of any use in complex real world situations, and why prioritize humans anyway.

Fernapple replies on Oct 9, 2019:

@Mcflewster It is perhaps not true of this site and its sister site. But Humanism as originally created meant a more human centric and humans first movement, than mere atheism, including the belief that humans are the most important thing in the universe. Not something that I am not at least agnostic about.

What one book would you keep?

ToolGuy comments on Oct 7, 2019:

My set of books. The Great Books of the Western World.

Fernapple replies on Oct 9, 2019:

You mean you wrote all the great books of the western world. I knew we got some great people on here but WOW.

Australian Green's Party ridiculed

Marionville comments on Oct 9, 2019:

We must remember that no party has a monopoly on making stupid statements...ALL parties are guilty of this. Both of these ideas are equally ridiculous! Btw...Why did you feel the need to post this twice?

Fernapple replies on Oct 9, 2019:

@FrayedBear Yep, I noticed a lot of times posts by many people come up twice. Just one of those funny things that happen here, you have just got to love this site. Long may it breed gremlins.

In solving problems 'In general' how useful is the phrase.

Fernapple comments on Oct 9, 2019:

Not at all. It is far too vague and banal to be of any use in complex real world situations, and why prioritize humans anyway.

Fernapple replies on Oct 9, 2019:

@Mcflewster Yes, not a Humanist, not with a capital letter anyway, while I have a great deal of respect for the movement, I did choose Agnostic.com, and not Humanism.com..

Australian Green's Party ridiculed

Marionville comments on Oct 9, 2019:

We must remember that no party has a monopoly on making stupid statements...ALL parties are guilty of this. Both of these ideas are equally ridiculous! Btw...Why did you feel the need to post this twice?

Fernapple replies on Oct 9, 2019:

Its funny, I once had a post where I could not decide which catagory it should go in, so I thought, post it in both. But the site gave me a slap, and a pop up, told me that was naughty and you should not do it.

JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS! Don't you just love it when Christians spout, "Jesus died for your ...

skado comments on Oct 8, 2019:

Of *course* it's crap if you interpret it literally. But it wasn't "intended" that way. It's intended (consciously or otherwise) to be symbolic of certain very real psychological processes. Theists who are literalists (most) miss the perennial (universal) relationships in those stories. Atheists...

Fernapple replies on Oct 9, 2019:

@LenHazell53 I think that you are right, and that there certainly was no intent on the part of the original writers to write allegory, in part because they were people just like us, and I don't know about you, but none of my friends have written a deep allegorical novel in the last few years. But in skado's defence, I have to say, that I do not think he is saying that the metaphors are not modern interpretations, mearly that he wishes to keep his right to use them that way. My problem is however, with continuing to view them that way in the modern religious tradition, not with acedemic study. From personal experience I have known people who claimed to view those stories as just metaphor, yet still found no problem in still using that metaphor, in one case to justify the most extremme anti palestinian racism, and in another the complete negation of human and animal rights. Metaphor is of course open to any interpretation you care to give it, always subjective, and it is therefore the most dangerous of all the routes to truth save blind faith.

JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS! Don't you just love it when Christians spout, "Jesus died for your ...

skado comments on Oct 8, 2019:

Of *course* it's crap if you interpret it literally. But it wasn't "intended" that way. It's intended (consciously or otherwise) to be symbolic of certain very real psychological processes. Theists who are literalists (most) miss the perennial (universal) relationships in those stories. Atheists...

Fernapple replies on Oct 9, 2019:

@skado You say. "It did not “take hold” in conscious awareness perhaps, but one could argue it hasn’t really taken hold yet in any but the most esoteric circles." I would say that it has taken hold and that it is quite an old well established view, held by many. Because unfortunately the problem is that it is not just limited to academic "esoteric circles". If it was, I would have no problem with it, but in fact is that it is widespread and deep rooted in many church establishments. Yet here is the rub. When a literal believer, of which there are many, gets up from the pew and reaches out to put money in the collecting box, does the priest say. "Stop before you do that, you do understand the metaphorical meaning of the verses I just read, don't you." No, of course not, and that is the heart of the problems. First the massive dishonesty, especially towards the huge numbers of often poor and vulnerable people, who are often led into making huge contributions of time, effort and money they often can not afford, and which could make big differences to them and in their communities, by those who only fake their belief. Secondly because the supporting of religion by such people, normalizes and extends the scope of religion, thereby creating the vast pool in which the fundamentalists, often of the worst type, swim. The metaphorical believers can not absolve themselves form the harm that religion, including the literal kind, causes indeed they are at the core of it. And thirdly, because of the massive lazy failing of those within religion and taking the metaphorical view, to educate, which should be everyones responsibility. And yes I have studied religion as metaphor and enjoyed it as a study and learned much from it, but if someone asks me are those stories true, then I reply, not in any way, though you may use them as poetic understandings of human nature, but you can use any myths for that.

Another story from the deep past, but with some interest for todays world. [youtube.com]

Robecology comments on Oct 8, 2019:

Anton's videos are good...but not great. He needs to slow down and articulate...you can see that his videos start and stop...he's trying to say too much in too short a time.

Fernapple replies on Oct 9, 2019:

True, but I love the quirky happy enthusiasim of them.

new ideas on sea-level rise - [theconversation.com]

Fernapple comments on Oct 8, 2019:

Of course the melting of ice sheets are not the only, and possibly not the biggest contributers to sea level rise, the expansion of water due to the higher temperatures of the seas also adds perhaps more.

Fernapple replies on Oct 8, 2019:

@Allamanda Interesting, never thought of that.