Prompted by calls to 'give grace' to cop who killed George Floyd, black activists question the rush ...

Geoffrey51 comments on May 30, 2020:

Forgiveness can be over rated. Certainly here. The guy is an aggressive arsehole who should not have had a badge in the first place.

Flowerwall replies on May 31, 2020:

@Alchemy I read one of your responses hear and it sounds like you have had to endure things a human being should never have to endure. Very sorry to hear that. I also know two younger men who have become police officers, one white, one a minority, both are good people and I don't appreciate this statement ""There is something inherent to being a cop that turns everyone who becomes a cop into an evil goon." My neighbor's daughter is a police officer and is a decent person as well, though I don't know her as I know the other two. I do know that living through a horrible experience, as you have, can alter a person's future view of similar situations and people. But please know not all police are bad people.

Why we're angry - [johnpavlovitz.com]

Athena comments on May 30, 2020:

There are lots of reasons to be angry, as stated in this article, but I disagree with Clinton being a person of character. "I’m angry that you ignored Hillary Clinton’s experience, intelligence, and character, to give away the nation’s leadership to a guy who filed bankruptcy numerous times...

Flowerwall replies on May 30, 2020:

I don't think I had heard of it before, but what about former Pres. Clinton association with Epstein? The more you look at it, it's just something that can't even be equated to a swamp because swamps are natural, beautiful parts of an ecosystem. This is worse, way worse than that.

The results of bad governing in real time.

Lilac-JadeCanada comments on May 28, 2020:

Totally needless.

Flowerwall replies on May 28, 2020:

@Lilac-Jade Yes rule following is important in this circumstance. It will make a difference. Places that have managed the health crisis well have been able to reopen much sooner. Other places reopen despite the body count. It's very frustrating - the indifference. Just watching this issue, the jump in cases in the state, being discussed on the news and the discussion is followed by mention of the opening of a local amusement park in the next few days. Is this REALLY the time?

The results of bad governing in real time.

Lilac-JadeCanada comments on May 28, 2020:

Totally needless.

Flowerwall replies on May 28, 2020:

@Lilac-Jade It sounds like British Columbia is doing pretty well. Are Ontario and Quebec more populated provinces?

The results of bad governing in real time.

Lilac-JadeCanada comments on May 28, 2020:

Totally needless.

Flowerwall replies on May 28, 2020:

@Lilac-Jade I don't blame you. With regard to covid the average person would be much safer in many other nations than the US. Much safer in Hong Kong or China. I think South Korea has also followed through with masks in public spaces now too. Probably any country where masks are worn by everyone in public indoor spaces and close contact outdoor situations as well.

The results of bad governing in real time.

Lilac-JadeCanada comments on May 28, 2020:

Totally needless.

Flowerwall replies on May 28, 2020:

I can't even believe it still. You do somewhat understand some of the things that were said by Chinese officials that were not positive said of US government response to covid. I understand that perception. No government is perfect, but we are really not doing very well here.

Wondering why some people are conspiracy-theory prone?

powder comments on May 14, 2020:

Reasoning for war on drugs, WMD in Iraq, History in general. Divide and conquer. Power corrupts. Julian Assange. Just strange that a lot of conspiracy theories become reality. Just stay skeptical of all information is best. Plus I always refer to the old "who gains?" when shit goes down. ...

Flowerwall replies on May 15, 2020:

@powder I am not informed enough on the exact details of history of war on drugs especially the farther back it goes. I will agree that SOME experts believe there is a racial element. I think the bigger conspiratorial aspect by far, is not the war on drugs, but rather the widespread presence of drugs in society to begin with.

Supremely FAULTY State Supreme Court decision in WI! Have any other states' Supreme Court's made any...

Varn comments on May 14, 2020:

...there’s a lot of time between now & November.. Republicans have been riding high for some time … perhaps, with the nation awake.. that will end.

Flowerwall replies on May 15, 2020:

@Varn Right this is similar to what was said in this video. As commentator mockingly calls Emperor Evers than says "only 434 deaths in the state". Well yeah, that means he did a GOOD JOB and should be commended! Not mocked by online commentators and undermined by Supreme Court of WI. Glad to hear the two states you mentioned did well. My former home state is 3 highest in the nation in case count, IL.

Supremely FAULTY State Supreme Court decision in WI! Have any other states' Supreme Court's made any...

Varn comments on May 14, 2020:

...there’s a lot of time between now & November.. Republicans have been riding high for some time … perhaps, with the nation awake.. that will end.

Flowerwall replies on May 15, 2020:

@Varn Just came across some commentator online referring to Gov as Emperor Evers and MI Gov as Empress Whitmer. It seems unfair to lump two together in a negative way like that. Gov Evers has been doing a great job and was in process of slowly reopening. I haven't followed MI Gov as much, but I did think part of her stay at home order was unreasonable.

Supremely FAULTY State Supreme Court decision in WI! Have any other states' Supreme Court's made any...

LucyLoohoo comments on May 14, 2020:

DAMMIT, Flower! What kind of protests are going on? What're people planning? GOOD LUCK!

Flowerwall replies on May 15, 2020:

From what I hear as soon as the verdict was given everyone headed out to the bars to get drunk. (Our state has a drinking problem and ranks among the nation's 10 highest for drunk driving, see below) https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/After-Wisconsin-court-ruling-crowds-descend-on-15269413.php#photo-19411749 I hope no bar patrons were infected with covid as they could have infected a large group of others and I know for a fact virus can be transmitted this way. But our Justices and Republican lawmakers here are pleased with the chaos and absence of leadership they created.

Wondering why some people are conspiracy-theory prone?

powder comments on May 14, 2020:

Reasoning for war on drugs, WMD in Iraq, History in general. Divide and conquer. Power corrupts. Julian Assange. Just strange that a lot of conspiracy theories become reality. Just stay skeptical of all information is best. Plus I always refer to the old "who gains?" when shit goes down. ...

Flowerwall replies on May 14, 2020:

@powder "War on drugs; has come out it was a response to 60's counterculture like conciencious objectors, black Panthers specifcally" I don't get what you are saying here.

Supremely FAULTY State Supreme Court decision in WI! Have any other states' Supreme Court's made any...

TomMcGiverin comments on May 14, 2020:

Hypocrisy by people in high office like the state court? I am shocked, shocked I say.....

Flowerwall replies on May 14, 2020:

Maybe this type of stuff is commonplace, but everytime it occurs it is not less wrong. The government is constantly lacking stable, wise and appropriate leadership in this pandemic whether it's through expropriation as is seen in this instance or in feigned delegation as we see at the federal level, and who suffers for it? The citizens.

Are some of the covid stimulus proposals so pie in the sky that even discussing them is ...

jlynn37 comments on May 11, 2020:

Depends mostly on one's political ideology.

Flowerwall replies on May 13, 2020:

@jlynn37 It can be allocated, but at what point does it bury us?

Are some of the covid stimulus proposals so pie in the sky that even discussing them is ...

Pompey comments on May 11, 2020:

Ignoring a threat just seems silly. That said, two months ago, anyone proposing a direct payment to people would have been tarred and feathered. Currently the political class is running scared for their next election cycle. This means that they need to funnel funds to their shareholders in order ...

Flowerwall replies on May 13, 2020:

@Pompey Maybe in many instances govt only likes deferred debt when it comes to individuals, or maybe just a certain party likes it that way, but that is not true ALL the time, of course. I disapprove of loan forgiveness with any of these for-profit businesses UNLESS the funds were neccessary to existentially sustain through crisis and repayment is not feasible because the business is barely keeping it's head above water long after. Not big industry at all (no free money, only loans). And not smaller businesses that make a full recovery. Loan forgiveness in these two circumstances is RIDICULOUS! It's like the govt inserting money into an ATM and not expecting it back because it underwent the national covid crisis. If the govt is willing to loan funds on SS retirement benefits it is willing to wait a very long time frame for repayment. The same mentality can be used with business, but at a higher interest rate, of course. As to non-profits I would take a more lax approach on repayment depending on the value of the service to society overall and that would include even churches (sorry, that may cause some around here to be highly incensed). It may be the best approach is a combination of another round of stimulus payments and the SS loan for individuals. Hopefully govt gets it right. I do know some of the details on the business side have not been fully worked out of the loans already in existence. We have to hope there is the right amount of assistance in the right places, but it is a work in progress. The best policies will be in appropriate balance and not over spending needlessly. More business stimulus may be needed too. We'll see as we move forward.

Are some of the covid stimulus proposals so pie in the sky that even discussing them is ...

of-the-mountain comments on May 11, 2020:

Welcome to the reality of pie in the sky!z!! When reality meets the great art of deception!!!

Flowerwall replies on May 12, 2020:

The costs are very high. Even looking at policy proposals that have been been pitched by others in recent times the price tags are hard to believe. Some of these policies are pitched without a price tag even calculated! At some point we have to accept covid will do economic harm that we cannot just spend our way out of.

Are some of the covid stimulus proposals so pie in the sky that even discussing them is ...

jlynn37 comments on May 11, 2020:

Depends mostly on one's political ideology.

Flowerwall replies on May 12, 2020:

I just think the numbers are so high. I don't read the federal spending budget really ever, but looking at the costs of this "free money " is really astounding.

Are some of the covid stimulus proposals so pie in the sky that even discussing them is ...

Pompey comments on May 11, 2020:

Ignoring a threat just seems silly. That said, two months ago, anyone proposing a direct payment to people would have been tarred and feathered. Currently the political class is running scared for their next election cycle. This means that they need to funnel funds to their shareholders in order ...

Flowerwall replies on May 12, 2020:

I liked the new proposal I read about today. https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/05/11/proposal-5000-stimulus-check-loan-in-exchange-for-delayed-social-security-benefits/#6d9fb2547981 I just don't understand why some of the "loans" going to businesses are getting turned into grants in the programs that have already been set up. That doesn't seem to make sense. The government should follow through with the loan aspect unless the business truly cannot repay. Doing otherwise is absolutely wrong. I don't understand in what instances the loans are made into grants.

We need an international law against eating bats!

t1nick comments on Mar 27, 2020:

Most viruses come from animal to human transmission. Swine flu came from pigs. Avian flu (H1N1) came from birds. Are we going to outlaw eating them?

Flowerwall replies on May 11, 2020:

@t1nick Some bat hunters use their mouths to kill the bat. I don't understand how they would not all contract some deadly illness at some point. I am sure handling the carcass is certainly not without risk as well.

[usatoday.

dalefvictor comments on May 8, 2020:

So are the inspectors spreading the virus to the different plants?

Flowerwall replies on May 9, 2020:

It doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

[cnbc.

AnneWimsey comments on May 4, 2020:

The real reason, IMO, is that soon food shortages will become a Real problem & lead to rioting. Sorry to sound harsh, but the food chain is pretty fragile.......

Flowerwall replies on May 4, 2020:

@AnneWimsey Well I agree stocking up on certain items is a good call. Overall I think most items will remain in stock and some will be hard to find or get very pricey. Hopefully, info in this link is mainly true. https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2020/04/16/will-covid-19-threaten-availability-and-affordability-our-food

[cnbc.

AnneWimsey comments on May 4, 2020:

The real reason, IMO, is that soon food shortages will become a Real problem & lead to rioting. Sorry to sound harsh, but the food chain is pretty fragile.......

Flowerwall replies on May 4, 2020:

@AnneWimsey I do know the work is back breaking. There is also pesticide exposure that the worker's can experience, but we can't just throw our hands up and give up, can we? Maybe by us ourselves doing the work it will open our eyes a little more to what it's all about. I never suggested lettuce could be stored for that long a period of time. Certain aspects of food production will be effected, for certain. Some aspects won't.

[theguardian.

Flowerwall comments on Apr 28, 2020:

Also Gov. Cuomo s-i-l! She has stated she used bleach in her bath as covid treatment. I was very surprised! This is not a good thing to be putting out there for the public to hear.

Flowerwall replies on May 4, 2020:

@LenHazell53 Commonly known as "bleach" is household bleach, the sodium hypochlorite, like Clorox. Don't know about the others. Bleaching agents for other purposes, I would think.

[cnbc.

AnneWimsey comments on May 4, 2020:

The real reason, IMO, is that soon food shortages will become a Real problem & lead to rioting. Sorry to sound harsh, but the food chain is pretty fragile.......

Flowerwall replies on May 4, 2020:

@AnneWimsey When I think of harvest it's in the fall. So, in my mind that would mean getting these rates down NOW, so we aren't still slip sliding through the grips of this in fall. True, harvest is different in different places. But with so many Americans out of work, we ourselves need and can do the work. We have no guarantee Mexico will have a grip on it's own pandemic woes given Obrador's previous response and we cannot afford to import more viruses from other nations. We need to incentivize this work and not allow people to just overlook it because they are already recipients of unemployment. It is in everyone's best interest to get this work done. Maybe the government can assign unemployment recipients to nearest food producers in need of harvesters and make it a requirement for continued benefits, while only counting a certain portion of the wage. I am aware of the situation with the meat stuff and find it all abhorrent.

[cnbc.

AnneWimsey comments on May 4, 2020:

The real reason, IMO, is that soon food shortages will become a Real problem & lead to rioting. Sorry to sound harsh, but the food chain is pretty fragile.......

Flowerwall replies on May 4, 2020:

How directly does states opening have to do with the food chain? To my knowledge most of the food chain has remained intact throughout the stay at home orders. Some aspects have not, for instance some smaller segments of crops were lost, but I thought, by and large, it has all been humming along. The appalling aspect is how some have gotten sick at work, in food chain environments, and the government wants to block the employer from having any liability in the circumstance. No, it is not employer's fault covid exists, but have the employer's been requiring masks at work? If not they should not be able to escape all responsibilities.

"the number of people who will ultimately get sick or die depends on how well the country is able to...

bingst comments on May 3, 2020:

Governors, except in states that allow local restrictions.

Flowerwall replies on May 4, 2020:

Yes they do have a big role to play, I will agree on that. It would be interesting to compare case rates per capita by dates and the various government level policies that are either put in place or removed and the resulting effects. I was impressed with my state's governor's announcement that our state solicited PPE from our "sister state" in China "Heilongjiang Province". In response the province donated 10,000 masks and 1,000 medical outfits. Very kind and thoughtful! I don't know if the idea originated from our governor, but either way he was gracious and I am sure the medical staff will put it to good use! https://www.wsaw.com/content/news/Wisconsin-receives-PPE-donation-from-China-570159441.html This resourceful, let's-work-together mentality is exactly what is needed at the highest levels. How differently would things be now if this had been the attitude of all the leaders in this nation? The other thought though is you don't only blame the governors. The President has to give across the board guidance. We have 50 states, so I can't imagine just trying to communicate to 50 governors with any frequency or even on a given day. Partly it's also citizens needing to hear "the final word" from the top and hopefully, unifying words that bring us all together and appeal to the highest nature, bring out the best, our nature of helpfulness. But I may not be aware of all that is happening at the moment as I have not listened to the latest briefings in some time.

"the number of people who will ultimately get sick or die depends on how well the country is able to...

itsmedammit comments on May 3, 2020:

I'll just be staying in when I can. Fortunately I have the option. I feel sorry for those who don't.

Flowerwall replies on May 4, 2020:

It's terrible. I think the best you can do is wear a mask, maintain social distance and wash those hands. But everybody needs to follow until those numbers are down to nothing. I think we are very far from there.

"the number of people who will ultimately get sick or die depends on how well the country is able to...

Beowulfsfriend comments on May 3, 2020:

Over all, I blame the feds. Some governors have stood up, but that wall is cracking as others piss in the pool and as the orange blunder stands with the protesters, who are being manipulated by the rich and well connected.

Flowerwall replies on May 4, 2020:

I really do firmly believe it is a lack of American's (some, not all) ability to follow certain rules too. The leader, the President, needs to be strong in this, standing up for what will lead us in the path of quickest, fullest recovery, giving clear direction. He needs to be pointing the states in the right direction NOT being absent as it feels he is now and has been through a large part of this. Instead business interests are wanting a reopen yesterday and so "protestors" are encouraged by the Republicans and even encouraged by the President himself. When the American citizens say "We don't want to follow rules!" (Even if those rules are meant to save fellow citizens' lives) the government kowtows. And INDEED the President has kowtowed to interests other than that of public health. For instance in OK, citizens threaten store employees and the government kowtows. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/02/us/face-masks-stillwater-oklahoma-trnd/index.html Real leadership takes a stand! It doesn't stop because of people's "not liking" what is good for them! And that leadership starts at the top. Who is the Commander in Chief? What oath is sworn? What is the duty? By letting social distancing measures expire he is washing his hands of the matter! This occurrance with the virus spreading and effecting such a large number of people has really brought to light the human ability to twist reality into such a varied number of forms it becomes almost impossible to know what is real! Trump loyalists will support him even now and blame his failings on ANYONE else, but HIM.

You just can't see wheelies in space when it is a ball

Flowerwall comments on May 2, 2020:

I don't understand this at all, but I wish I did, possibly. Is this all about Star Wars?

Flowerwall replies on May 2, 2020:

@Hathacat Sorry I still don't get it. But anyway, thanks.

Check your local ordinances

Flowerwall comments on May 1, 2020:

Too bad. We play Yahtzee often.

Flowerwall replies on May 1, 2020:

@Hathacat They have no concern for such matters. They are only concerned with winning. Evil squirrels!

Why are white supremacists protesting to 'reopen' the US economy?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 30, 2020:

I just read a post recently that some also want a white supremacist ethno state. And then I wrote a post not long ago saying people who want to push this reopen should go live in their own state, like they are making a case for succession (I didn't specifically mean just this group, but all who are ...

Flowerwall replies on May 1, 2020:

@Jetty I just read today federal social distancing guidelines were expired as of today. So, I guess the original guidelines were just an attempt at pretense. Now we see the true color. This is what disturbed me so much in the beginning. This is NOT NORMAL!

Why are white supremacists protesting to 'reopen' the US economy?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 30, 2020:

I just read a post recently that some also want a white supremacist ethno state. And then I wrote a post not long ago saying people who want to push this reopen should go live in their own state, like they are making a case for succession (I didn't specifically mean just this group, but all who are ...

Flowerwall replies on May 1, 2020:

@Jetty I had to attend to something and didn't get to finish my thoughts yesterday. But yes, there were articles saying that some of these groups were intentionally trying to spread the virus. This is very typical of all who are so hell bent on achieving an agenda they will resort to tactics that result in death- what even IS the agenda of a white supremacist ethno state? This whole subject of covid frustrates me to no end. I feel so tired of listening to the public debate. Even public figures are encouraging reopen too soon and it all just reaffirms not very good opinion I hold of the larger public's opinion as we continue to follow and esteem people who will have us jump right off the side of a cliff, figuratively speaking, with their recommendations.

People are indeed experiencing job loss.

itsmedammit comments on Apr 28, 2020:

Greed will probably not go away. But as far as the businesses, I'm sure there are many who simply cannot afford to keep paying workers, so it is not a matter of greed. It's about being able to stay alive.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 29, 2020:

", so it is not a matter of greed" Not in the instances I have seen, but sure, I do admit this is not true for all employers. I think it's larger companies where it's much easier to look at numbers and not see people. Two people who have been employed for well over ten years each, hard working, good at what they do, just cut loose. That's what I saw. And personally. It's not an easy thing to see.

[theguardian.

LenHazell53 comments on Apr 28, 2020:

I believe this is the same nut job who a few years ago sold diluted bleach to his followers as a do it yourself exorcism kit. I know his books were banned off amazon for being dangerous rot.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 28, 2020:

I wonder if this is the same person who someone posted about on here before. I remember the story was a mother giving a child the mix to drink supposedly to cure an ailment based on some misinformation she had been listening to from a religious group. A group was suggesting it as a treatment for ailments, but it is an unproven claim and very dangerous as it could result in burns. I watched a show on a young child I believe in UK who grabbed a vial of very concentrated bleach chemical and swallowed it. It was horrifying. Child's entire esophagus and stomach had severe chemical burns. Surgery after surgery it was a struggle to correct problem so very young child could swallow and eat. Never meant to be taken as a food or drink.

[theguardian.

Flowerwall comments on Apr 28, 2020:

Also Gov. Cuomo s-i-l! She has stated she used bleach in her bath as covid treatment. I was very surprised! This is not a good thing to be putting out there for the public to hear.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 28, 2020:

@barjoe, @LenHazell53 Pool water is mixed with the chemical, bleach, at a certain ratio. I don't believe a typical bottle of bleach contains the appropriate instructions to create the pool water type mixture. Some people unfamiliar could be harmed by trying it and creating a mixture that is too bleach heavy resulting in possible skin and lung burns/injury. I don't like any public figure talking about it when it is not something any Dr.s have mentioned publicly.

See you soon!

SiouxcitySue comments on Apr 28, 2020:

And now the chair of the repubs in AZ has told them to all wear scrubs in order to confuse the press. Like their signs and flags won't be a dead giveaway, along with the lack of masks.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 28, 2020:

Oh wow I hadn't heard that! That's something else! Trying to discredit the real medical counter protestors, and confuse the public. Considering the abuse that has been hurled at the real medical counter protesters, this behavior is harmful to the frontline workers themselves! WHO is govering in that state?! And why would the person think action meant to discredit medical professionals is GOOD idea?

There were protests in the state Capitol today against stay at home orders.

SpikeTalon comments on Apr 24, 2020:

If you stay at home and away from such people, how could their actions possibly affect you then? Furthermore, in absence of any hard evidence such people are infected with Covid-19, how could you conclude they pose a danger beyond any doubt? As an atheist I go by evidence, not assumptions. Prove to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 27, 2020:

@Veteran229 From what I heard pneumonia drops of at this time of year normally. There would be no point to testing for it first. With covid being the more infectious illness, the first thing they would probably look for is covid. I do not believe they have stopped counting all non-covid pneumonia. Please site a reputable source to back up your claim.

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

JonnaBononna comments on Apr 27, 2020:

I'm just going to drop this right here.... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-prisons-testing-in-idUSKCN2270RX

Flowerwall replies on Apr 27, 2020:

@Paul4747 We have had this discussion in another thread. I think guards and medical workers should be tested before asymptomatic prisoners. Testing an entire facility of prisoners most of whom are not even sick, the article said 96%, whilel a lone medical worker is rejected for testing on FOUR separate occasions who IS SICK and subsequently dies is a SQUANDEROUS use of resources. Why this medical worker was denied testing I do not know, but there cannot be a good reason. I hear similar stories online - people DIEING now because of no testing. What is the point? You separate by risk group in prison, closely monitor incoming, how are whole facilities getting infected ? The prisoners have better accommodations and medical access than law abiding citizens! This comparison shows to me the government is mismanaging access to tests. Either that or racism is rearing its ugly head, which is still a govetnment problem because they are charged with protecting citizens. Either way we have a SERIOUS PROBLEM here. A medical worker has died with no covid test!

This is one of the saddest, most infuriating aspects of what’s going on that I’ve seen.

Flowerwall comments on Apr 27, 2020:

I wonder what the legal recourse is here? Definitely should be an ability to sue in this situation. You only hear her mention suing YouTube. The idea is not brought up about suing the content creator. Wouldn't slander be a charge? There have to be some criminal and civil type of penalties for this, ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 27, 2020:

@Apunzelle Yes, somehow passed through this too quickly. Maybe the law needs to change then. This problem isn't going away anytime soon. Social media is never going away and the more fragmented we are the more likely conspiracies such as this are to develop. There has to be a way to bring justice to these situations, while still allowing freedom of speech.

There were protests in the state Capitol today against stay at home orders.

SpikeTalon comments on Apr 24, 2020:

If you stay at home and away from such people, how could their actions possibly affect you then? Furthermore, in absence of any hard evidence such people are infected with Covid-19, how could you conclude they pose a danger beyond any doubt? As an atheist I go by evidence, not assumptions. Prove to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 27, 2020:

@Veteran229 And the high prevalence of people experiencing covid like symptoms is a coincidence? You can't get diagnosed with Aids unless you get tested for it. So does that mean there are no undiagnosed cases of AIDS? NO, it means they have not been diagnosed. Likewise a nation like Ecuador, where the cost of covid testing is too high and medical resources extremely scarce, is piling up dead bodies. Combine that fact with what is occurring in nations all over the world and you know it is covid. Unless there is another growing pandemic there of different cause, which I have heard no news of.

There were protests in the state Capitol today against stay at home orders.

SpikeTalon comments on Apr 24, 2020:

If you stay at home and away from such people, how could their actions possibly affect you then? Furthermore, in absence of any hard evidence such people are infected with Covid-19, how could you conclude they pose a danger beyond any doubt? As an atheist I go by evidence, not assumptions. Prove to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 27, 2020:

@Veteran229 Okay so if we assume there is some type of misreporting inside our country (I don't think there actually IS, beyond the typical skewing that is always present in some degree) how could death rates in other nations be explained? For instance Equador has seen total deaths skyrocket from 1,000 to 6,700 in first half of April. They don't have the ability to test for covid sufficiently, so the official numbers of covid are low, but what would explain the increase of 5,700 deaths? https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2020-04-24/coronavirus-deaths-and-desperation-mount-in-ecuador

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

JonnaBononna comments on Apr 27, 2020:

I'm just going to drop this right here.... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-prisons-testing-in-idUSKCN2270RX

Flowerwall replies on Apr 27, 2020:

@JonnaBononna I did just read the other day, was it one or two people who had died after being sent home rejected for tests. So asymptomatic prisoners tested BEFORE sick, free citizens? Hmm, I see a problem with that. See here is an example. https://www.businessinsider.com/detroit-healthcare-worker-died-denied-testing-four-times-2020-4 We have asymptomatic prisoners who we know are positive and a dead healthcare worker rejected not once or twice but FOUR times for covid testing! I think this situation is appalling. I will bet we have other citizens who have been turned away for testing and died as result. This article is not describing a one-of-a-kind scenario. As to the percentage of asymptomatic, I have heard ranges of asymptomatic from 20% to 80%, never heard of 96%. I don't believe the numbers reflect what is going on in the outside world. Something may be causing this in these situations that has not been factored in. South Korea did extensive testing and has a mortality rate of 2.23%. And that number is in line with other numbers of 20% having symptoms that would be described as "critical" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/test-trace-contain-how-south-korea-flattened-its-coronavirus-curve

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

JonnaBononna comments on Apr 27, 2020:

I'm just going to drop this right here.... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-prisons-testing-in-idUSKCN2270RX

Flowerwall replies on Apr 27, 2020:

Well after reading this I don't expect to hear of any other free citizen who describes not having access to covid testing. If we are testing asymptomatic prisoners we have enough for all!

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

Silvertongue comments on Apr 26, 2020:

Simple answer. YES!

Flowerwall replies on Apr 27, 2020:

@BryanLV When you first replied I thought you were the person I originally replied to. This was the question "What does that mean? YES you are okay with the possibility that 2 to 4 people in every group of 100 citizens will die? You feel that is an acceptable option? At what percent would it be UNACCEPTABLE in your mind? 5% 10% 20% 50%? Where is your "No"?" You are correct you did not evade. I was reacting and not paying attention to who was speaking. I take back this statement " At this point I have to question the proper functioning of your overall mental processes."

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

FrostyJim comments on Apr 26, 2020:

I viewed this on YouTube and could not finish the clip... the minute he mentioned Fox news... he is again playing with public policy for health and safety with his opinion as opposed to facts. Yes - he would appear to have the credentials but there are many of his peers that disagree. There is no ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 27, 2020:

@FrostyJim I am not saying it is an easy situation, but let's not overstate how dire it is. "The social safety net is about to run dry" what are you basing that statement on? If our nation cannot handle a few months of quarantine and then bounce back, then we have no resilience and I refuse to believe this is the case! We need to eliminate the idea of non-essential business and instead think of it in a different term. I don't think it's useful in some places. People respond by saying ALL businesses are essential. Also believe we need to eliminate privacy concerns that disallow discussion of location, general location, I mean, and possible sources of infection. We don't have clear ideas of where infection is even occurring other than county numbers. What good does THAT do?

The disaster upon us for women, low-wage workers, immigrants, and renters: [wbur.org]

Athena comments on Apr 26, 2020:

The reality of what's happening right now is so disturbing. I need time to gather myself everything I consume any news.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 27, 2020:

@Athena I haven't seen this reaction personally at stores, although I did see a woman a ways back who was acting very short-tempered in the store. She had been on the phone with I think it was her partner, and I couldn't tell if was him or the coronavirus that had put her in a bad mood. I think it was the virus. But after that interaction I thought that this building stress is going to cause an increase in all manner of problems with people, especially those who already have serious problems to start.

Disrespect Hurled at Frontline Workers in Covid Pandemic - Unacceptable Behaviour! How does this get...

BBJong comments on Apr 26, 2020:

Human EMPATHY - not shooting the messengers ,BUT the message... Nothing will change if if we don't apply the lessons learned. We should (and will come out stronger) realize we are being exposed to something that ,along with other threats to humanity ,could hit at any given time! Our ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 27, 2020:

Just given the way that all of this has played out up to this point, I think this is going to be very stressful and drawn out over a very long time. You're right there is little credit for catastrophe averted and we have not averted one this time.

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

citronella comments on Apr 26, 2020:

All of this sounds wonderful; in theory, anyway. But the example given, Sweden, is a country where there is more concern for one's fellow man than exists here. Swedish society focuses more on the "we" than the "me." So they may more carefully follow social distancing practices than I think will ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

You praise Sweden, but do not speak of China. I do hope the failure to include China in discussions when we do international comparisons of covid response is not a result of sinophobia. Why exclude them? Can we NOT acknowledge their success? I don't mean to accuse you specifically, maybe it's more of an accusation of the video. I never finished watching it because everything he was saying I disagreed with.

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

FrostyJim comments on Apr 26, 2020:

I viewed this on YouTube and could not finish the clip... the minute he mentioned Fox news... he is again playing with public policy for health and safety with his opinion as opposed to facts. Yes - he would appear to have the credentials but there are many of his peers that disagree. There is no ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

@FrostyJim Please familiarize yourself with various social safety net programs- food stamps, unemployment insurance, food banks. These programs are designed to help people through crisis times. Also charitable giving has increased to help the poorest. I recently heard of a great program headed by Yang, that is giving money to the very poor. It's only one example. I am sure there are more. We will be okay. I do worry for nations that have weak social nets. Also we need to expect our government to institute policies that will end evictions and utility shut offs, across the board, everywhere. Everything should be done from a governing angle that supports "pause" in bill collecting - for individuals and businesses.

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

RichCC comments on Apr 26, 2020:

The WHO put out a statement yesterday that reinfection was still a distinct possibility and they doubted their evidence of infected people being immune -- let alone being not infectious. Being too impatient to wait for reliable knowledge about the epidemic will drag it out and will make it worse ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

@rainmanjr No! Don't accept that approach. We have to do a better job ourselves.

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

FrostyJim comments on Apr 26, 2020:

I viewed this on YouTube and could not finish the clip... the minute he mentioned Fox news... he is again playing with public policy for health and safety with his opinion as opposed to facts. Yes - he would appear to have the credentials but there are many of his peers that disagree. There is no ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

"civil breakdown and food riots are just one possibility." This does not look like a possibility. Government has stated there is NO possibility for food shortages. If we drag it on long enough, with lax leadership, the more likely a possibility it could become that some foods may be in shorter supply over a very LONG haul. Best to demand strict adherence to safety rules NOW. Some business should be allowed open with safety measures in place (everyone in masks, caution at p/u). For instance my state demanded in person voting, which I very much opposed, but state saw no huge jump in cases. So some limited business activity with p/u being used as point of sale should not be discouraged, in my mind. I don't mean opening businesses where public can congregate.

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

AmyTheBruce comments on Apr 26, 2020:

I'm very confused about something; perhaps someone here has some insight? There is, as yet, no guarantee that infection will produce immunity. We are trying to develop a vaccine. Yet, a vaccine works on the principle that infection (even artificial, toothless infection) produces ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

"See the problem here? Shouldn't we first know if immunity is even possible? " Yes we should! BEFORE we put more lives at stake. One of the vaccines they are working on, mRNA, works on a different principle than what mentioned.

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

Mofo1953 comments on Apr 26, 2020:

Nobody in his right mind believes that we are going to be quarantined for 18 months or until a vaccine is developed.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

@Mofo1953 Fines! Penalties! Enforcement! Citations! Make it so that rule breakers have consequences. What are other nations doing in this regard?

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

Mofo1953 comments on Apr 26, 2020:

Nobody in his right mind believes that we are going to be quarantined for 18 months or until a vaccine is developed.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

@Mofo1953 My previous response did mention a timeline, 3 months in Wuhan. We need to figure out how we can get close to that?

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

Mofo1953 comments on Apr 26, 2020:

Nobody in his right mind believes that we are going to be quarantined for 18 months or until a vaccine is developed.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

@Mofo1953 And people will be reluctant to come out here as well and even more so if we don't get our act together and have a thorough, appropriate, across-the-board response to this crisis. We can either take a firm stance and promote health and trust in the populace, or be weak and wishy washy and inadvertently allow disease and foster further reluctance to resume full normal, activity when it IS safe to do so ( obviously NOT NOW).

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

Silvertongue comments on Apr 26, 2020:

Simple answer. YES!

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

@Robecology, @BryanLV Glad to hear you want to protect BryanLV from any possible perceived verbal insult, that is great! I do feel protective of my fellow citizens too, but in my mind the much greater threat looming is from covid, not from an honest perception. I don't think his mental processes are deficient in anyway aside from this matter (how could I when I have had no other discussions and know nothing about the person). Please BryanLV, refer to the Crimson Contagion simulation and notate the acknowledged inability of the federal government to properly respond to high numbers of infected. Please notate the number of fatalities. These simulation exercise were done to test our national capacity to respond to a very similar scenario to what we are facing now and our resources, our ability to withstand are NOT THERE. So do not advocate for a position that could put us in the exact scenario we can not withstand. If you do so I will continue to question and criticize your thought process. And Robecology as you appear to be big at defending others at slightest hint of disagreeable position from others I will hope to receive the same defense of my position when the moment presents itself, unless with you it's just more like a guy thing, some language only spokenbetween members of the same gender where you defend one another on THAT basis, you know because you're both guys.

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

WilliamFleming comments on Apr 26, 2020:

I can see both sides, but short-term the lockdown has helped abate a deluge of hospital patients. Also lockdown gives more time for a vaccine to be developed. There is such a thing as overreaction, where the cure becomes worse than the disease. In the long term, everyone will have been exposed to...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

@WilliamFleming Please see my last response to Mofo above.

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

Silvertongue comments on Apr 26, 2020:

Simple answer. YES!

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

@BryanLV Again you evaded. So I will assume you are okay with a percentage of the population succumbing to covid however high that number may be. At this point I have to question the proper functioning of your overall mental processes.

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

Silvertongue comments on Apr 26, 2020:

Simple answer. YES!

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

@BryanLV I have not heard of any country reporting numbers below 1.?%. And Italy went as high as 13. %. So I again I will repeat the question you evaded the first time. Where is your "No" or should I assume there is no "No" in your mind? Do you really think China was able to reopen Wuhan if this was a fact " for every one positive diagnosis, there are possibly as many as 100 people who are carrying."? That would mean 8 million had it there! Let's stay grounded in reality.

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

WilliamFleming comments on Apr 26, 2020:

I can see both sides, but short-term the lockdown has helped abate a deluge of hospital patients. Also lockdown gives more time for a vaccine to be developed. There is such a thing as overreaction, where the cure becomes worse than the disease. In the long term, everyone will have been exposed to...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

And your reaction to this - “Right now, we have no evidence that the use of a serologic test can show that an individual is immune or is protected from reinfection,” the WHO’s Maria Van Kerkhove said at a briefing last week. (Said with regard to covid)

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

Silvertongue comments on Apr 26, 2020:

Simple answer. YES!

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

What does that mean? YES you are okay with the possibility that 2 to 4 people in every group of 100 citizens will die? You feel that is an acceptable option? At what percent would it be UNACCEPTABLE in your mind? 5% 10% 20% 50%? Where is your "No"?

The disaster upon us for women, low-wage workers, immigrants, and renters: [wbur.org]

Athena comments on Apr 26, 2020:

The reality of what's happening right now is so disturbing. I need time to gather myself everything I consume any news.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

Please don't let it bring you down. I feel the same some days. We will get through this.

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

Mofo1953 comments on Apr 26, 2020:

Nobody in his right mind believes that we are going to be quarantined for 18 months or until a vaccine is developed.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

Until we look at Wuhan, China and use the fingers one ONE hand to count 3 MONTHS and the city is reopen. Mall is reopened (I mention mall because it could be a big problem for virus transmission, obviously its OKAY)

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

RichCC comments on Apr 26, 2020:

The WHO put out a statement yesterday that reinfection was still a distinct possibility and they doubted their evidence of infected people being immune -- let alone being not infectious. Being too impatient to wait for reliable knowledge about the epidemic will drag it out and will make it worse ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

I found the key to this problem in the US is our unwillingness to forego individual liberty and FOLLOW RULES for the purpose of public health. We focus on individualism too much, we all want to be rebels and in so doing will bring our own nation to it's knees and cause the deaths of our own fellow citizens.

A different perspective; Is the fight against COVID19 worse than the disease?

PBuck0145 comments on Apr 26, 2020:

Herd immunity will be the final outcome. Delaying herd immunity prolongs the suffering.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 26, 2020:

And the whole response in China and the fact the city of Wuhan is now reopen is an apparition.

As today is the 50th year of "Earth Day" activities, I put together a little animation of the pace ...

twshield comments on Apr 25, 2020:

This comes from someone who has been fortunate enough to see most of the world. Americans have way too many freedoms! we have a pandemic happening and at the same time we have people protesting because they are being forced to wear a mask. Thanks to our freedom, America represents the highest ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 25, 2020:

@twshield You are correct.

As today is the 50th year of "Earth Day" activities, I put together a little animation of the pace ...

twshield comments on Apr 25, 2020:

This comes from someone who has been fortunate enough to see most of the world. Americans have way too many freedoms! we have a pandemic happening and at the same time we have people protesting because they are being forced to wear a mask. Thanks to our freedom, America represents the highest ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 25, 2020:

Very much agreed! I listened to a talk from a cross-cultural psychologist on this yesterday and societies have different levels of rule following behavior with US being described a country that is not a big rule follower. In many ways across the board I think this is true and even presents cultural challenges beyond this pandemic. During the pandemic it is especially difficult. Already you see people breaking stay at home rules, in public no masks, protesting in close proximity to one another. We are not very good at following rules and this will have a negative impact on how we get through this. We need to encourage other to follow rules, set an expectation for behavior. I would think fines would work.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

I don't know how much you know about Bill Gates, but I am one currently questioning. I created a post in another group and I will copy and paste it here with the hope that you can color in some details since you feel absolutely assured of his integrity. "Who is Bill Gates? I am looking to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 25, 2020:

@Allamanda "But, he isn't setting out to be that leader as far as I can see" Then why does he concern himself at all ? If he cares and wants to solve the problem, then DO SO. I don't want a politician. In fact the political end in all of this is something you hate to see. But if someone genuinely cares about public health, it is their life's work, and has the public's attention through constant media input then use it to inspire needed action. That is my thought.

There were protests in the state Capitol today against stay at home orders.

SpikeTalon comments on Apr 24, 2020:

If you stay at home and away from such people, how could their actions possibly affect you then? Furthermore, in absence of any hard evidence such people are infected with Covid-19, how could you conclude they pose a danger beyond any doubt? As an atheist I go by evidence, not assumptions. Prove to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 25, 2020:

@Veteran229 Here is the American reluctance to forego individual liberty even in the face of a pandemic that I have been talking about in other posts! Yes Sir, or Maam, (sorry I do not know your gender) we are in the middle of a pandemic. We are going to have a certain portion of our citizens, between 1.?% to 4.4% die, and until you are willing to approach a group of 100 American citizens and tell us which 2 to 4 people the group deserves to succumb to covid, and then do it over and over again, you need to learn how to FOLLOW RULES. If you are a veteran you have already existed in a culture that is highly adept at following rules, the military. Think of this in THOSE terms. The high level of discipline that achieves the ends of military goals and the accompanying respect and accomplishment that comes with that. You have a duty to your fellow countrymen.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

I don't know how much you know about Bill Gates, but I am one currently questioning. I created a post in another group and I will copy and paste it here with the hope that you can color in some details since you feel absolutely assured of his integrity. "Who is Bill Gates? I am looking to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 25, 2020:

@Allamanda I definitely think it speaks about the current strong, authoritative leadership vacuum we are experiencing. When I listen to him speak, for instance in this TED talk posted above and he talks about collaboration, yes, it definitely inspires. This attitude is inline with our national values. He comes across as a leader in this regard. I don't feel 100% trust though, as I think a real leader will prove him or herself by doing (and here I mean leading covid response). Skeptism is warranted at times and the times we are in are uncertain. Since he has the expertise and tools at his disposal, and since he has been an advocate for prevention of this very problem, it would be useful for him to step up as THE authority to give across the board guidance that will help all nations know exactly what best practices are. But the directions need to be given out clearly. Now is not the time to assume the leaders in power will make the best decisions. He should approach it with a sense of urgency. In the article I read he appeared to be not doing this. I am going to continue listening to him as statements and talks come out, I DO hope he is the genuine, effective leader that helps pull the world further away from this current crisis and of course continues the good work he has been involved in for many years. Just don't mind if I question it from time to time, either specific things said or the general stance.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

I don't know how much you know about Bill Gates, but I am one currently questioning. I created a post in another group and I will copy and paste it here with the hope that you can color in some details since you feel absolutely assured of his integrity. "Who is Bill Gates? I am looking to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 25, 2020:

@Allamanda I know this back and forth has gotten very long, but please look at the last reply I sent to Fernapple just above this. I know Bill Gates did not make a recommendation regarding return to school, but if he is to be a leader in this he needs to be STRONG. Give clear meaning and directions. Do not cave in to politics. Don't be lukewarm. Set clear expectations of how we get through and demand our leaders follow it. Don't say "Kids will return to school" in a passive voice. GIVE DIRECTIONS!

Doing my first shift testing people for covid tomorrow wish me luck .

mcgeo52 comments on Apr 24, 2020:

How are you doing? I hope you have sufficient PPE.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 25, 2020:

@bobwjr Glad to hear it's going okay and you have the needed supplies.

There were protests in the state Capitol today against stay at home orders.

SpikeTalon comments on Apr 24, 2020:

If you stay at home and away from such people, how could their actions possibly affect you then? Furthermore, in absence of any hard evidence such people are infected with Covid-19, how could you conclude they pose a danger beyond any doubt? As an atheist I go by evidence, not assumptions. Prove to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 25, 2020:

@SpikeTalon It's not bad to question things. But it is bad to break the rules of a stay at home order in the midst of a pandemic. Stay in your car, post your message posters on the hood, windows, form a procession. It's just very bothersome to know at some point the government is going to encourage resuming activities before we should. The disease will spread once again.

There were protests in the state Capitol today against stay at home orders.

LucyLoohoo comments on Apr 25, 2020:

And some of us wonder why we're so disrespected in other parts of the world. Friends in Kenya were just emailing me to ask why Americans are so self-centered and childish. I told them that these're spoiled children and it's time to grow up!

Flowerwall replies on Apr 25, 2020:

I wouldn't be surprised if there are people all over the world who are breaking stay at home orders and would not specifically call out Americans as self-centered or childish. I do understand people want life to be normal again, but the hard-headedness is not something all should have to pay consequences for. The more political pressure that is exerted the more likely we are to cave. Just trying to find a talk I started listening to on the beneficial side of being a more disciplined, rules based society in going through a pandemic. Additionally, ideas of separation are not just limited to this pandemic, but what about other behavior certain people want to engage in and others want no part of such as drug use or criminal behavior. Certain behaviors do pour over and negatively impact the larger society. For some it is acceptable, others want no part ,but are forced to deal with the consequences. Borders clearly define here and there. Separation is important in some ways.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

I don't know how much you know about Bill Gates, but I am one currently questioning. I created a post in another group and I will copy and paste it here with the hope that you can color in some details since you feel absolutely assured of his integrity. "Who is Bill Gates? I am looking to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 25, 2020:

@Fernapple Just came across a talk on societies that use varying societal controls and how the US, which veers toward "loose culture with ambivalence toward measures that erode our autonomy and liberty.", needs to look toward cultures that are more rules based in order effectively combat the virus. This is what I was meaning in the other response I wrote here, the reaction we should be praising and encouraging in our society now to get through this. "You know, tight societies, like Singapore and Hong Kong, for example, have demonstrated a really effective, quick, swift response. Singapore has had very few deaths. And the United States, the response so far echoes our loose cultural programming. It's been conflicted. It's been unstandardized. It's been uncoordinated. And I think that, you know, this is a cultural issue because loose cultures who have tended to have less threat haven't had the kind of contexts where they've realized the importance of sacrificing liberty and autonomy and freedom for constraint and rules. And we have kind of an ambivalence about tightness in United States in general. And here's where we see that this is a real liability that we do see in our data analyses that loose cultures have had higher spread of the disease, different trajectories than tighter cultures...And I think that we need strong leadership to tell us that this is the appropriate response in this situation. " from cross-cultural psychologist Michele Gelfand, HIDDEN BRAIN Playing Tight And Loose: How Rules Shape Our Lives

There were protests in the state Capitol today against stay at home orders.

SpikeTalon comments on Apr 24, 2020:

If you stay at home and away from such people, how could their actions possibly affect you then? Furthermore, in absence of any hard evidence such people are infected with Covid-19, how could you conclude they pose a danger beyond any doubt? As an atheist I go by evidence, not assumptions. Prove to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 25, 2020:

I will assume a certain portion of a group that contains thousands of Americans are INDEED infected with covid. When you consider the number of infected in our nation right now it is very highly improbable NOONE in the group was infected. Of course it's not possible to prove anyone has covid unless have undergone testing. Do not forget the large percentage of infected who are asymptomatic. They have chosen to break government orders to stay at home and have increased the risk of transmitting the disease to themselves and everyone they are coming in contact with in their communities - for instance at the grocery stores. I view the behavior as irresponsible. Why not protest in your cars? Find another way to get the message out.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

Also, this article can't be read by a non-subscriber. Are you able to copy and paste the text?

Flowerwall replies on Apr 24, 2020:

@Allamanda This type of blame shifting being done by the U.S. is very disturbing. I don't agree with an attitude of "determination to lead on global health matters, including the current COVID crisis" and then you fail to fully show up. Or maybe that is because WE are most in need, this time around. I also feel similar disappointment at all nations who didn't show up. It is true this must be a collaborative effort. This is something Bill Gates is absolutely correct in saying ( this is from 2015 video included below). It looks like the U.S. and Europe are really the hardest hit at this stage, by far. Hmm, also just reading an article about ramped up hacking attempts of WHO.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

I don't know how much you know about Bill Gates, but I am one currently questioning. I created a post in another group and I will copy and paste it here with the hope that you can color in some details since you feel absolutely assured of his integrity. "Who is Bill Gates? I am looking to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 24, 2020:

@Allamanda I am cranky too. Maybe I am just feeling negatively and questioning of Gates because of this whole situation and I myself am looking for someone to blame, which would indeed make this whole conversation pointless. I hope you feel better soon.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

I don't know how much you know about Bill Gates, but I am one currently questioning. I created a post in another group and I will copy and paste it here with the hope that you can color in some details since you feel absolutely assured of his integrity. "Who is Bill Gates? I am looking to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 24, 2020:

@Fernapple Not gotten through it yet. Soon.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

I don't know how much you know about Bill Gates, but I am one currently questioning. I created a post in another group and I will copy and paste it here with the hope that you can color in some details since you feel absolutely assured of his integrity. "Who is Bill Gates? I am looking to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 24, 2020:

@Allamanda "no I din't mean to be insulting at all, but I now have to backtrack through this whole thing which was already rather tiresome and is now thoroughly boring." So you didn't mean to be insulting then, but do now? You said I confounded several ideas then repeated back one example. I will assume you exaggerated (for what effect?) or you don't have the self- discipline to overcome your sense of boredom and give me a well-thought-out, proper response as I should be entitled to after being told I confounded several ideas. Responding would be courteous.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

Also, this article can't be read by a non-subscriber. Are you able to copy and paste the text?

Flowerwall replies on Apr 24, 2020:

@Allamanda So the genetic code gets inserted in our own cells? I don't understand the exact science here. mRNA vaccines, I guess. That is something to learn more about. It sounds like a completely new concept I am unfamiliar with, but not one that could be without serious problems. I say that not educated on potential risks, just my opinion. Edit 1: Read a very breif explanation. These vaccines may hold tremendous potential for eradication of certain diseases. It will be exciting to watch it progress.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

I don't know how much you know about Bill Gates, but I am one currently questioning. I created a post in another group and I will copy and paste it here with the hope that you can color in some details since you feel absolutely assured of his integrity. "Who is Bill Gates? I am looking to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 24, 2020:

@Fernapple I am getting tired of reading about mistrust of China and are they telling the truth. We trusted China so much for so long EVERYTHING is made in China and NOW we wonder if they are telling the truth? I think there was an attempt in the beginning to stifle the truth there, but beyond that I can't see a reason why. What I do find interesting is how we talk about China's impossible-to- fully- know faults, but fail to focus on our own. I agree they are more authoritarian and people listen better, so shouldn't we be attempting to model this same behavior? No I don't mean the authoritarian side of it, but giving a positive portrayal of the effectiveness of following directions, self quarantining etc. Also possibly using ideas of fining people who are purposely engaging in behavior that is putting the entire society at risk? No, instead we are encouraging reopening the economy too soon so we can have a huge second wave. It is baffling how we are lead. Our government needs to have a strong, firm leadership that does best for the nation, not giving in to public demand of the day, aka playing politics I also just read "Chinese officials fume at what they see as Western hypocrisy. They say President Donald Trump and other leaders ignored the brewing pandemic, then began scapegoating China once the virus arrived on their shores" I tend to agree with this. Scapegoats are very useful tools of incompetence.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

I don't know how much you know about Bill Gates, but I am one currently questioning. I created a post in another group and I will copy and paste it here with the hope that you can color in some details since you feel absolutely assured of his integrity. "Who is Bill Gates? I am looking to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 24, 2020:

@Fernapple He may have just misspoken. But what about our expectations from our own government? It makes me VERY ANGRY how we spend all these billions of dollars and yes I mean in excess of all Gates Foundation spending and WHERE is our biodefense? What even IS it? What are our expectations from it? I heard some very dismissive things said about those who criticize the lack of biodefense as though these billions are just supposed to be spent and no expectations placed on a certain level of capability from our federal response. To me I feel Bill Gates is just approving that idea here and I don't like it.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

I don't know how much you know about Bill Gates, but I am one currently questioning. I created a post in another group and I will copy and paste it here with the hope that you can color in some details since you feel absolutely assured of his integrity. "Who is Bill Gates? I am looking to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 24, 2020:

@Fernapple Whether he uses it as an introduction or not I still would expect it to be factual. He is not a person I can picture " he probably did not give much thought to" is true in ANY circumstance. He is too intelligent. I would still find this as an acceptable excuse for a student giving a speech, but Bill Gates? He is comparing dollar amounts spent that are in excess of all of his own foundation's spending and saying we haven't spent on it? This is CONFUSING. It's misleading. I am going to say it again. It's not my intention to put down a person who has done a lot of good. I don't have something against the guy. In fact I REALLY ADMIRE people who do good and especially on a massive scale, those are the best accomplishments, but you can't just NOT question either. I may be off-base, and picking apart things I shouldn't, but still it's there and I wonder.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

I don't know how much you know about Bill Gates, but I am one currently questioning. I created a post in another group and I will copy and paste it here with the hope that you can color in some details since you feel absolutely assured of his integrity. "Who is Bill Gates? I am looking to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 24, 2020:

@Fernapple Please tell me why we are not as capable as China? I would really like to know why.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

I don't know how much you know about Bill Gates, but I am one currently questioning. I created a post in another group and I will copy and paste it here with the hope that you can color in some details since you feel absolutely assured of his integrity. "Who is Bill Gates? I am looking to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 24, 2020:

@Allamanda "If children are back at school with a scientific consensus as to the advisability, we will be in a phase where other vulnerable sectors are protected from contagion, and there will be tests and/or vaccines etc." That is NOT how it was presented in the article. Also thanks for this "yes obviously, you are confounding several different ideas here." Which several ideas do you mean? Please clarify and list otherwise your response comes across to me as insulting and derogatory, and that must not be your intention

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

I don't know how much you know about Bill Gates, but I am one currently questioning. I created a post in another group and I will copy and paste it here with the hope that you can color in some details since you feel absolutely assured of his integrity. "Who is Bill Gates? I am looking to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 24, 2020:

@Allamanda What data are you looking at? Please give your specific source. You take ONE child who is asymptomatic put the child in the classroom. Have the kid sneeze maybe because of allergies or because a dust piece flies in the nose, you now have entire classroom possibly infected and bringing it home. Or maybe sneezed in the hallway and now multiple classes infected.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

Also, this article can't be read by a non-subscriber. Are you able to copy and paste the text?

Flowerwall replies on Apr 24, 2020:

@Allamanda Thanks.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

I don't know how much you know about Bill Gates, but I am one currently questioning. I created a post in another group and I will copy and paste it here with the hope that you can color in some details since you feel absolutely assured of his integrity. "Who is Bill Gates? I am looking to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 24, 2020:

@Fernapple I wanted to get back to this. I started watching it. I noticed in the first minutes he mentions we have invested in nuclear deterrents but NOT biodefense. It's easy in that statement, as a viewer to confuse who the "we" he is referring to. I would assume the U.S. since he mentions nuclear defense. Is it true to say we have spent little on biodefense? Maybe he is trying to wrap 2 ideas in one there? I don't know. I don't agree that we have spent little on biodefense, comparatively, yes, but overall, absolutely not.

Tired of seeing Bill Gates demonized by unintelligent anti-vaxxers, Trumpites and xenophobes?

Flowerwall comments on Apr 24, 2020:

I don't know how much you know about Bill Gates, but I am one currently questioning. I created a post in another group and I will copy and paste it here with the hope that you can color in some details since you feel absolutely assured of his integrity. "Who is Bill Gates? I am looking to ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 24, 2020:

@Allamanda "I am not "absolutely assured of his integrity" any more than with any other human" That's fair. But what do you know about him? Is it just TED talks you've watched? What else? Read any books? Any other ideas? Things you heard that stick out in your mind? I just read a quote of his where as he talks about the recovery from covid. He makes future predictions about how we will recover. He says "I think schools will reopen". He didn't say "I think schools SHOULD reopen" But he made a future prediction that schools would reopen before the pandemic numbers have been brought down to zero. Should someone who has his "authority" in the matter, and by that I mean being looked to as an authority, be saying such a thing? Over the past three days I have been made aware of a five-year old and pregnant twenty-something who died of this illness. I think opening schools back up before we have zero is grossly irresponsible as the school setting is probably one of the WORST places in terms of how diseases such as cold and flu are spread through a community. I would also think Bill Gates who is an extremely intelligent individual, knowledgeable in both disease spread and in general, very wide range of knowledge, would know this and not speak of such occurrence neutrally. He would make recommendations AGAINST it knowing that sending kids back to school prematurely will be directly responsible for MORE infections and then more deaths, and quite possibly by very large numbers.

Who is Bill Gates?

Cutiebeauty comments on Apr 21, 2020:

He hired his father to give away money to charity

Flowerwall replies on Apr 22, 2020:

I don't know much about Gates. I mean I know the obvious facts. Don't know about his family. His father is described in positive ways from brief article I read. Seems like a genuinely good human being.

Who is Bill Gates?

FearlessFly comments on Apr 21, 2020:

. . . just HOW MANY billions did Warren Buffet give to the Bill & Linda Gates Foundation ? . . .btw, in the interviews of Linda, I have found her even more impressive. :)

Flowerwall replies on Apr 21, 2020:

@FearlessFly Yeah, it's true. The original allegation. I had not heard it before. It's been a story for some months. I think this is not a good indicator.

Who is Bill Gates?

FearlessFly comments on Apr 21, 2020:

. . . just HOW MANY billions did Warren Buffet give to the Bill & Linda Gates Foundation ? . . .btw, in the interviews of Linda, I have found her even more impressive. :)

Flowerwall replies on Apr 21, 2020:

I read something about him negative. Association with a well known person that can be described as a having serious character issues, you know unethical. Is it a lie?

Some of the stuff I am reading is really bothering me with regard to this pandemic.

itsmedammit comments on Apr 21, 2020:

I know what you mean. It is frustrating to think there isn't much one can do. Of course I will vote, but what else can we do? I had planned to help people in a neighboring state register voters. Protests are not an option. It really burns me that the people who need to be held accountable, ...

Flowerwall replies on Apr 21, 2020:

"It really burns me that the people who need to be held accountable, aren't." YES!

So, tonight my husband got called an apostate whose after-death destination will be hell.

Cast1es comments on Apr 20, 2020:

Only Christians can go to hell and here's why . According to the Bible , God created angels . The angels revolted , and Lucifer was cast out of heaven . If it were not for God , angels and Lucifer would not exist , therefore no God means no Satan , and no Hell .

Flowerwall replies on Apr 20, 2020:

Maybe? But where do atheists go? Nowhere?

Care Minister MP Helen Whately LAUGHS as Piers Morgan confronts her over 4,000 coronavirus care home...

Flowerwall comments on Apr 19, 2020:

Let's be fair. She could not see the paper being held up by Piers. Anyone who makes light of the death of constituents is unworthy to hold the seat. But let's not confuse what we are seeing. I do understand your anger. We have to remain clear-headed in our perceptions.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 20, 2020:

@LenHazell53 I agree her mood does come across as inappropriate to the subject. It is an extremely upsetting reality that is being discussed. I understand people want answers and accountability from those in charge. It is reasonable to expect it. If the government is truly denying basic PPE to care homes the subject needs to be pushed and all in charge need to be held accountable. I just heard of someone today I know who was working in a nursing home and contracted the virus. I don't know what the status was with PPE availability. I know nationally there is shortage everywhere here. You have not been able to purchase masks in store for months, going back to before there were even active cases in the US.

Care Minister MP Helen Whately LAUGHS as Piers Morgan confronts her over 4,000 coronavirus care home...

Flowerwall comments on Apr 19, 2020:

Let's be fair. She could not see the paper being held up by Piers. Anyone who makes light of the death of constituents is unworthy to hold the seat. But let's not confuse what we are seeing. I do understand your anger. We have to remain clear-headed in our perceptions.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 20, 2020:

@LenHazell53 I didn't watch the whole interview but did read the article. I don't like the interviewer's behavior. Asking questions and then not allowing her to answer. Expecting her to see something she has no way of viewing, and then attacking when she responds with laughter. Let her talk! I am not familiar with issue, but quickly searched something up after watching yesterday and saw something that gave even higher numbers than the 4,000. Almost double. This is very disturbing. I can understand Piers feeling infuriated. It's best to have dialogue. Just cutting her off as she attempts to speak isn't allowing the truth- or what her version of the response has been, to come to light. I just read this "Public Health England said there were 3,084 care homes with Covid-19 outbreaks in England, as of 15 April." And all I can think is WHAT?! We don't have that many nursing homes infected in the US and we have much higher overall numbers! How did this happen? It definitely needs to be looked into. It seems some basic safety standards are not being followed.

Why don't we have all of our higher ups spend a LITTLE BIT MORE TIME blaming China as attempted ...

RichCC comments on Apr 19, 2020:

It's a shame we don't have more definitive tests. /snark It would have been nice to test whether she had antibodies (whether she had had the virus). What is a shame is that we're betting on probabilities and possibilities rather than acting on direct evidence.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 20, 2020:

@RichCC I do agree with some of the reopening of the economy being not appropriate yet. I read an article that labeled the weekend protests as "street theater" because the protests were largely attended by people who have an agenda not just your average working class American who needs to return to work for financial reasons. I believe if it is not handled appropriately we will see a resurgence as you pointed out with the graph. It's frustrating to see a mixed message being sent out. People are easily confused. Give too much support to the people who are attempting to appear as protestors, and you are also supporting all the people out there that believe this whole pandemic is an exgerrated political ploy. On the other hand, certain areas of the country should be reopening in limited amounts and on certain terms. In counties with very low case rates all businesses should be open with a pick- up type option. It does get a little difficult to run certain business this way, but it's better than nothing. It's a much better option than being completely closed. Or possibly require entering customers to wear face masks. I do agree stores cannot stay closed forever.

Why don't we have all of our higher ups spend a LITTLE BIT MORE TIME blaming China as attempted ...

racocn8 comments on Apr 19, 2020:

The young lady should be tested for antibodies when that test becomes available. The police and school official are closet Nazis.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 20, 2020:

Yes. Why would the school call the police over such a matter? Also considering there are currently 197 cases in the county discussed, trying to block information from being posted just comes across now as an attempt to not honestly deal with the reality of the virus.

Why don't we have all of our higher ups spend a LITTLE BIT MORE TIME blaming China as attempted ...

RichCC comments on Apr 19, 2020:

It's a shame we don't have more definitive tests. /snark It would have been nice to test whether she had antibodies (whether she had had the virus). What is a shame is that we're betting on probabilities and possibilities rather than acting on direct evidence.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 19, 2020:

@RichCC Additionally there is a real threat of physical harm coming to people if you yell fire in a movie theater when there is no fire. No such threat exists in saying online a Dr. told you, you might have had coronavirus. This is a complete false equivalence. The law enforcement agents took an oath to uphold the constitution. You DO NOT threaten a law abiding citizens to jail time because they are saying something you disagree with. I wonder if other instances of this authoritarian behaviour have occurred elsewhere throughout state or country. This is not acceptable. The regulatory agency over this law enforcement agency needs to get the employees of the state of WI in line with proper procedure and adherence to the overriding law of the land. An Oath is your highest duty - uphold the constitution of US!

Why don't we have all of our higher ups spend a LITTLE BIT MORE TIME blaming China as attempted ...

RichCC comments on Apr 19, 2020:

It's a shame we don't have more definitive tests. /snark It would have been nice to test whether she had antibodies (whether she had had the virus). What is a shame is that we're betting on probabilities and possibilities rather than acting on direct evidence.

Flowerwall replies on Apr 19, 2020:

@RichCC " But she was likely not completely without fault" what fault do you see? "I think he acted irresponsibly as a government employee by threatening to arrest them" where is sheriff's culpability for possibly scuttling a needed warning of a possible danger? We just shrug our shoulders and move on, I guess. Step directly on the basic tenets of free speech, and we will find it passable, no problem. Watch what you say on social media or else the thought police might arrest you!