Mcflewster's Profile

What is the one Truth or Method of finding the truth that you hold sacred above all others?

Sgt_Spanky comments on Jan 7, 2020:

1. Agreed -- Atheism *is* a statement of fact -- I see no evidence for gods so I don't believe gods exist.. 2. Disagreed -- The etymology of the word, Sacred, is firmly mired in religion. Its synonyms are all words with religious overtones, its antonyms are all words with religious, overtones. A ...

Mcflewster replies on Jan 7, 2020:

I do not study words (obviously) but I look behind them to discover my own or more useful meanings in their purpose and effect. I admit that sacred is more usually connected to religion but so are resolute and firm.

What is the one Truth or Method of finding the truth that you hold sacred above all others?

AnneWimsey comments on Jan 6, 2020:

"Sacred"???? Really?

Mcflewster replies on Jan 7, 2020:

@AnneWimsey Who is wasting their lives?

What is the one Truth or Method of finding the truth that you hold sacred above all others?

AnneWimsey comments on Jan 6, 2020:

"Sacred"???? Really?

Mcflewster replies on Jan 7, 2020:

@AnneWimsey So getting rid of religion would be a waste of time?

Should creationism be taught in schools?

KKGator comments on Jan 6, 2020:

LMFAO!!!!!! That's a joke, right? I mean, it has to be. You can't possibly be serious. Creationism? What "creator"???? There's no "creator" to have "created" anything. So there's NOTHING to teach. Thanks for the laugh. That's the funniest thing I've read all day. Seriously. Thank you! ...

Mcflewster replies on Jan 7, 2020:

@Dougl35534 Science it is not, literature or Philosophy ok. But science and philiosphy are necessary to get things changed.

Should creationism be taught in schools?

indirect76 comments on Jan 7, 2020:

It would be appropriate to bring it up in a current events or debate class, not science class.

Mcflewster replies on Jan 7, 2020:

A science teacher needs to be present. Could I suggest not to teach or debate but rather discuss with availability of tested and trusted facts

What is the one Truth or Method of finding the truth that you hold sacred above all others?

TristanNuvo comments on Jan 6, 2020:

To be honest, I don't hold any Truths 'Sacred'. However. The act of critical thinking, Questioning everything, and well, the Scientific Method. I hold above just about everything. I'm not sure if I would Call any of them so called 'sacred", But they are important to me. It may be That I just ...

Mcflewster replies on Jan 7, 2020:

Critical thinking is a good choice.

What is the one Truth or Method of finding the truth that you hold sacred above all others?

zeuser comments on Jan 6, 2020:

Well, when I was a manager faced with a complaint of some kind, the thing I always made sure that I did was talk with all parties involved to get their respective sides before taking any action. Not sure if this counts. It worked, for me at least, 9 times out of 10.

Mcflewster replies on Jan 7, 2020:

This is what we ALL have to do now in every aspect of our lives

What is the one Truth or Method of finding the truth that you hold sacred above all others?

AnneWimsey comments on Jan 6, 2020:

"Sacred"???? Really?

Mcflewster replies on Jan 7, 2020:

I knew someone would say that. I get calmer about religion by saying "what does this word mean to an agnostic" , although you would want me to stay angry with religion - or would you?

What is the one Truth or Method of finding the truth that you hold sacred above all others?

Sticks48 comments on Jan 7, 2020:

and 3...You can't throw a potato chip far!

Mcflewster replies on Jan 7, 2020:

So get a sling shot??

What is the one Truth or Method of finding the truth that you hold sacred above all others?

Pedrohbds comments on Jan 7, 2020:

the scientific method is the best way to get as close to the truth as our capacity can, but it is not sacred, actually what makes it effective is that it is not sacred, it can be attacked, patched, corrected and changed if you show that your change generates better results. The power of statistics ...

Mcflewster replies on Jan 7, 2020:

The only way to correct science is with demonstrably better science as agreed by a science community. So in a way it has a self correcting mechanism when taken as a whole. Perhaps this could be better described as resilience rather than being sacred, but both tend to keep things as they are.

What is the one Truth or Method of finding the truth that you hold sacred above all others?

aintmisbehaven comments on Jan 6, 2020:

not sure I understand the "question".... you say "What is the one Truth or Method of finding the truth that you hold sacred above all others?" if you hold a truth sacred, then you've already found it, right? if so, then there's no more "finding the truth"...

Mcflewster replies on Jan 7, 2020:

Well of course I would want diversity of ideas ... it is the only way to check that you have the best one for advancing your ideas further in the future. I do so blame religionists for their way of narrowing of thinking by saying "all you need is Jesus" . However most people are led forward by a simple idea or "star to follow" .

What is the one Truth or Method of finding the truth that you hold sacred above all others?

Atheist3 comments on Jan 6, 2020:

Evidence is everything!

Mcflewster replies on Jan 7, 2020:

This is a good phrase and I would not dream of limiting its spread, but in context it is the one starting point in the cycle of the scientific method processes that has the power to chain on all the rest.

I doubt if anything can stop this now

Mcflewster comments on Dec 21, 2019:

Democracy? Democracy? What IS democracy?

Mcflewster replies on Jan 6, 2020:

@ppdls Is it only bad because we misuse it so often?

Am I wrong?

Mcflewster comments on Jan 4, 2020:

If anyone does not have reproduceable evidence then it is possible they are wrong. The burden on them, not you, is to produce the evidence. Why worry?

Mcflewster replies on Jan 6, 2020:

@dalefvictor Religion will disappear faster if we are honest. I am assuming that we do not just dismiss people who are religiously inclined but rather take care to see that they see the logic and reason for our position.

In trying not to insult religionists an article in a previous post 'q:441073' "Here’s the only ...

1of5 comments on Dec 24, 2019:

Answer me first this question: why do I care about not offending them to begin with?

Mcflewster replies on Dec 29, 2019:

@1of5 "So I think it will be very hard, and a very long time till we're rid of the curse of religion" I hope it does not surprise you that I agree with this statement . I just feel that to look for progress with anything with a negative attitude is counterproductive. I base my optimism on helping people to trust science which is a method that we are born with and mostly squashed out of us by well meaning people. please see my Science teachers group on this site. That change to science in itself will take a complete change in science education over centuries but is at the root of every change away from religion. And don't forget. Humans work in mysterious ways. Mysterious because they have not been invented yet.

In trying not to insult religionists an article in a previous post 'q:441073' "Here’s the only ...

LiterateHiker comments on Dec 24, 2019:

As an atheist since age 13, I have over 50 years of experience with Christians who try to convert me. Instead of arguing, I use smart-aleck replies. Choose one: 1. "I don't believe in an invisible being that resides somewhere beyond the clouds." 2. "We are *all* atheists here" ( waving my ...

Mcflewster replies on Dec 29, 2019:

@LiterateHiker I have no bias against atheists. Just think that we should all combine under one banner which is not included in the name of the site we are both posting on. Agnostic however is a good holding place. Please do not say that you know my beliefs. They are elsewhere on this site and it states there that can be improved by you.

In trying not to insult religionists an article in a previous post 'q:441073' "Here’s the only ...

1of5 comments on Dec 24, 2019:

Answer me first this question: why do I care about not offending them to begin with?

Mcflewster replies on Dec 29, 2019:

@1of5 I would like to suggest that because you post to 'Agnostic' perhaps you do not know it will succeed either- obviously with a new approach and new words and whatever but if we do not try we will never know what works. Just want people to be more hopeful about the future. Not saying I know any answer except trying

In trying not to insult religionists an article in a previous post 'q:441073' "Here’s the only ...

ToolGuy comments on Dec 24, 2019:

Study and follow the four agreements by Ruiz. Religion is not necessary.

Mcflewster replies on Dec 28, 2019:

@ToolGuy - for the benefit of others The fifth agreement is be skeptical, but learn to listen.

In trying not to insult religionists an article in a previous post 'q:441073' "Here’s the only ...

ToolGuy comments on Dec 24, 2019:

Study and follow the four agreements by Ruiz. Religion is not necessary.

Mcflewster replies on Dec 28, 2019:

1 Overview 1.1 Agreement 1: Be Impeccable With Your Word 1.2 Agreement 2: Don't Take Anything Personally 1.3 Agreement 3: Don't Make Assumptions 1.4 Agreement 4: Always Do Your Best Who could disagree with these? IMO they are all covered by taking science into your personal methodology.

In trying not to insult religionists an article in a previous post 'q:441073' "Here’s the only ...

MrDMC comments on Dec 24, 2019:

Unfortunately, faith is not based on logic. The better the questions, the more apt the faithful are to be turned off. Also, they have their fall backs. Ask how they know; "I have faith." Or, "God works in mysterious ways." I will ask and answer questions with people that want to do the same. ...

Mcflewster replies on Dec 28, 2019:

In my opinion faith is a way of a human brain retaining sanity whilst trying to make a decision about difficult questions. It then goes to the simple unproveable answers given by religionists. Simplicity is a powerful decision maker. Trouble is this does not make the decision right. Only continuing logic , reason and science can get nearest to the truth. Once decided the faith comunity switch off and my only desire is that we try to switch it back on to reason etc without bothering them or you. Anger is a reasonable response but not very effective in changing minds because they will defend faith above all. Worth trying though?

In trying not to insult religionists an article in a previous post 'q:441073' "Here’s the only ...

1of5 comments on Dec 24, 2019:

Answer me first this question: why do I care about not offending them to begin with?

Mcflewster replies on Dec 28, 2019:

Perhaps because we do not want religion to continue forever. I for one do not think that has to happen because I believe in humans, logic, reason and science. Also like yourself and all religionists our brains were blank sheets at birth that have been filled incorrectly.

In trying not to insult religionists an article in a previous post 'q:441073' "Here’s the only ...

maturin1919 comments on Dec 24, 2019:

*Is* there a polite way to suggest to someone they've dedicated their life to a lie?

Mcflewster replies on Dec 24, 2019:

@maturin1919 Is a person acting like a chicken under [stage] hypnosis lying?

In trying not to insult religionists an article in a previous post 'q:441073' "Here’s the only ...

ToakReon comments on Dec 24, 2019:

If praying makes god do something different, does that mean that what he was originally doing was wrong?

Mcflewster replies on Dec 24, 2019:

Good question - needs a separate post?

In trying not to insult religionists an article in a previous post 'q:441073' "Here’s the only ...

LiterateHiker comments on Dec 24, 2019:

As an atheist since age 13, I have over 50 years of experience with Christians who try to convert me. Instead of arguing, I use smart-aleck replies. Choose one: 1. "I don't believe in an invisible being that resides somewhere beyond the clouds." 2. "We are *all* atheists here" ( waving my ...

Mcflewster replies on Dec 24, 2019:

Shuts them up is good but needs following up to see if anything is changed.

In trying not to insult religionists an article in a previous post 'q:441073' "Here’s the only ...

maturin1919 comments on Dec 24, 2019:

*Is* there a polite way to suggest to someone they've dedicated their life to a lie?

Mcflewster replies on Dec 24, 2019:

Does lie = misinterpretation = passing on someone else's misteaching= perpetuating a myth =something without eveidence. Lie is a loaded word implying wrong doing with intent.

In trying not to insult religionists an article in a previous post 'q:441073' "Here’s the only ...

resserts comments on Dec 24, 2019:

Several years ago, a friend from college posted a quote by someone from the Benedictine monastic tradition, whose name escapes me, about how prayer is the most important thing anyone can do. I pointed out that I'd rather someone physically help me if I were in an accident than to have them pray for ...

Mcflewster replies on Dec 24, 2019:

" We're up against dogma" Would it be wrong as soon as a dogmatic statement is pronounced to ask for evidence. One must be prepared to talk about acceptable evidence i.e no hearsay or ancient texts. I know it will be difficult but worth trying.

Can we avoid insulting believers ?[churchandstate.org.uk]

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 22, 2019:

I try not to get into arguments over religion. Experience shows that nothing I say will change anyone. Maybe those who argue have subconscious doubts about their stances, and are trying to resolve inner conflicts. What I notice is that any mention of metaphysical subjects will elicit a barrage of...

Mcflewster replies on Dec 24, 2019:

There is no scientism only science.

Can we avoid insulting believers ?[churchandstate.org.uk]

Truthseeker1968 comments on Dec 22, 2019:

We can. Absolutely we can. Just don’t engage. It is pointless to involve oneself in any type of argumentative or debating discourse with those of faith. They are not going to influence me to back into Christianity and I am certainly not going to influence them to my way of thinking - unless of...

Mcflewster replies on Dec 24, 2019:

You seem determined not to be re-converted back to any religion and you just have to believe that I am not trying to do that also. I hope some of the ideas on this site are helping you to have more confidence in talking to religionists that eventually we will win all over to our views. It will take a long time though.

Can we avoid insulting believers ?[churchandstate.org.uk]

Mcflewster comments on Dec 22, 2019:

From the article : "Here’s the only workable approach I know: Be polite. Stay calm. Be reasonable. Don’t assert your doubt too forcefully. Instead, ask questions designed to make the believer see flaws in his or her faith. For example:" From Mcflewster :In other words use your science brain...

Mcflewster replies on Dec 24, 2019:

@HankSherman I admit that it is a skill not to annoy religionists but in the long run it will be ONE of the requirements for abolishing religion.

My Xmas message - In the style of Boris Johnson Get the Maximum Human potential DONE.

Allamanda comments on Dec 21, 2019:

oy vey!

Mcflewster replies on Dec 21, 2019:

@Allamanda It was said to emphasis the utter uselessness of his style

My Xmas message - In the style of Boris Johnson Get the Maximum Human potential DONE.

Allamanda comments on Dec 21, 2019:

oy vey!

Mcflewster replies on Dec 21, 2019:

@Allamanda me or Boris?

My Xmas message - In the style of Boris Johnson Get the Maximum Human potential DONE.

Allamanda comments on Dec 21, 2019:

oy vey!

Mcflewster replies on Dec 21, 2019:

Not sure of the translation of your phrase. In this case could you say a little more please.

My Xmas message - In the style of Boris Johnson Get the Maximum Human potential DONE.

JackPedigo comments on Dec 21, 2019:

Lets see, not being able to bring weapons to political rallies is an impediment. Pretty smart statement (not).

Mcflewster replies on Dec 21, 2019:

Sorry that Americans not see personal weapons as an impediment. Police and Forces should be all you need to be armed.

Science vs. Philosophy?

Mcflewster comments on Dec 21, 2019:

I have been through a phase of trying to get rid of the technique of philosophy. Now I am coming to the conclusion that it is impossible to remove it from human affairs. This because people will always open their mouths. They like getting things out and they keep on talking in the hopes of saying ...

Mcflewster replies on Dec 21, 2019:

@SeekingWisdom Secular to me means 'apartheid' and we must aim to eliminate religion and eventually not tolerate it. That will be a long time in the future though and no violence must be used to enforce it.

The law suggested by welsh MP against any lies made by MP s or other government employees seems a ...

webspider555 comments on Dec 14, 2019:

Sounds good in theory but politicians are expert at avoiding answering questions and will waffle their way through without tell any truth at all

Mcflewster replies on Dec 15, 2019:

This law would be intended to stop waffle which most people find easy to spot. Even if it is wrong waffle it gives a better chance of acting against it than no reason at all.

Do you think that " I have found god" should mean the same as "A get out of Gaol/Jail free" card.

Seeker3CO comments on Dec 11, 2019:

All conversions are same in the end result. They are all equally authentic

Mcflewster replies on Dec 12, 2019:

But how do you KNOW? Unless we have integrety in religion it is usless

Do you think that " I have found god" should mean the same as "A get out of Gaol/Jail free" card.

WilliamFleming comments on Dec 10, 2019:

I would not trust any “conversion” made under the threat of burning forever in hell, nor one made with a view of gaining an idyllic afterlife in heaven. Christianity is fatally flawed IMO. The only conversion worth anything to me is a gradual growing in awareness and appreciation for ...

Mcflewster replies on Dec 10, 2019:

That is the way we(?) reached agnosticism.

Do you think that " I have found god" should mean the same as "A get out of Gaol/Jail free" card.

Beowulfsfriend comments on Dec 10, 2019:

I know it is anecdotal, however, 99% of prisoners believe in some god. Thus, I would say: If you are a god believer, there is a better chance you will commit more crime.

Mcflewster replies on Dec 10, 2019:

That is an amazing statistic . Is god the last resort?

HOW CAN WE PUT A MORE POSITIVE SPIN ON OUR BRANDING??

maturin1919 comments on Nov 15, 2019:

What movement is this? I wasn't aware I was part of any movement. I want out.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 24, 2019:

Only movement at the moment is Freedom of movement but one day we will 'gel'.

HOW CAN WE PUT A MORE POSITIVE SPIN ON OUR BRANDING??

Remiforce comments on Nov 16, 2019:

I have a concern many in the Agnostic, Atheist, Skeptic , Freethinker & Humanist community resist seeing themselves as part of a movement. Certainly there are core principles we can all agree on. We shouldn't let superficial differences scatter us & dilute our strength. The religionists have been...

Mcflewster replies on Nov 24, 2019:

I agree totally with this . Certainly we will not get anywhere if we adopt the failings of religion like forming splinter groups.

Agnostic?

Paul4747 comments on Nov 24, 2019:

Agnostic Atheist is a position existing on a continuum. I occupy it myself. Gnostic/ Agnostic distinguishes between whether one claims to know or not know about the subject (generally the existence of god/gods). Theist/ Atheist distinguishes whether one does or does not believe that god or ...

Mcflewster replies on Nov 24, 2019:

I prefer this spectrum of belief approach from my training in all types of science thinking and as a teacher of science. I think that anyone who claims that science is the answer to religion cannot be anything but an agnostic. I prefer the term Agnostic Humanist for myself. IMO All people would like to belive something [even though they won't admit it]. I do believe in people and their potential.

❤️You are holding a cup of coffee when someone comes along and bumps into you or shakes your ...

luckytobealive comments on Nov 20, 2019:

damn this sounds like a sermon ;)

Mcflewster replies on Nov 20, 2019:

She is not a preacher but is a philosopher . Both sometimes waste a lot of time. She has not said anything I would disagree with just given us a new angle to view life. That could be regarded as entertainment, or could shake someone into changing their life for the better

Most of the world now thinks religion is the cause of the world's problems! [usnews.com]

Allamanda comments on Nov 16, 2019:

Note the the International Center for Religion and Diplomacy, founded by Douglas Johnston, mentioned at end - someone was asking me about similar organisations recently, I'm sorry I don't know who.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 17, 2019:

@Allamanda Thanks

Spirituality, New Age & Alternative Beliefs: General [hashtagnofilters.

shockwaverider comments on Nov 16, 2019:

This is a bullshit scam site designed to generate ad impressions and referral fees, there are millions of these. It must work as people are still doing it and have been for ages. I'm sure there are studies about it under psychology, marketing, sales, &/ communication. The reason for the long ...

Mcflewster replies on Nov 17, 2019:

@shockwaverider Why do we put up with it? Creates more problems than it solves

HOW CAN WE PUT A MORE POSITIVE SPIN ON OUR BRANDING??

Cutiebeauty comments on Nov 13, 2019:

Humanist? Nope... Are you trying to convert us lol

Mcflewster replies on Nov 16, 2019:

Are you trying to resist by any chance - without evaluating?

Spirituality, New Age & Alternative Beliefs: General [hashtagnofilters.

shockwaverider comments on Nov 16, 2019:

This is a bullshit scam site designed to generate ad impressions and referral fees, there are millions of these. It must work as people are still doing it and have been for ages. I'm sure there are studies about it under psychology, marketing, sales, &/ communication. The reason for the long ...

Mcflewster replies on Nov 16, 2019:

But is this ethical selling?

Philosophy vs. Religion

Hicks66 comments on Nov 13, 2019:

Citation needed.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 15, 2019:

@genessa This is what I would do had I the time and the money. I have no wish to bore you though so thanks for reading this far I would do a psychological test for fear before I read the proposition to 100 test subjects, Then I would repeat a psycholigal test differently worded and see if the proposition made any statistical difference. I am not a social scientist so the above would probably need modifying. Testing things with words rather than test tubes is becoming more acceptable especially in management training. I do know that lots of peole do not like or think in scientific terms "There is an awful lot of assumption going on there". I like that sentence of yours. Assumptions are the bane of all our lives.

Philosophy vs. Religion

Hicks66 comments on Nov 13, 2019:

Citation needed.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 15, 2019:

@genessa Just a tiny bit of an extreme case as an example. Of course as a Scientist I want you to test widely and sometimes wildy but not without a lot of forethought.

Karl Popper “Even a brief look into history reveals that majorities can err just like ...

HankSherman comments on Nov 15, 2019:

Majority have been held in suspicion.by me....and I tend to question the authority held by majority...If it is acquired with honesty and fairness and a simulance of rationality....then I would like to be a part of it....if not..then no......

Mcflewster replies on Nov 15, 2019:

You have a good attiude. Think of all the habits which plague our nations just because other people do it and for no good health reason eg. smoking , knife and gun carrying .

Karl Popper “Even a brief look into history reveals that majorities can err just like ...

GROG comments on Nov 14, 2019:

Very good point. The simple, if you don't use it, you lose it. Or, persecution forges stronger resistance. Yes, majorities can err and do so every day. The majority I see in error are those who propagate belief in the supernatural and eternal souls. This delusion, created by the human brain in ...

Mcflewster replies on Nov 14, 2019:

@GROG Let us weep together.

Philosophy vs. Religion

Hicks66 comments on Nov 13, 2019:

Citation needed.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 14, 2019:

@genessa My theory is "Don't ridicule without fully testing an idea." It is impossible to fully test an idea based on one person's comment because you cannot have the full spectrum of background ideas of the thousands of people that might evaluate it. This is why i have always been a "mixed ability teacher". An aside . Using the phrase mixed ability which I do occasionally, I am reminded that at the age of 5 I entered school through a door which had "MIXED INFANTS" above it. It has taken a lifetime to find out just how mixed I was, but not just in gender.

Karl Popper “Even a brief look into history reveals that majorities can err just like ...

GROG comments on Nov 14, 2019:

Very good point. The simple, if you don't use it, you lose it. Or, persecution forges stronger resistance. Yes, majorities can err and do so every day. The majority I see in error are those who propagate belief in the supernatural and eternal souls. This delusion, created by the human brain in ...

Mcflewster replies on Nov 14, 2019:

Thanks for the valedictory. It is rare.

Philosophy vs. Religion

Hicks66 comments on Nov 13, 2019:

Citation needed.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 14, 2019:

@genessa I disagree. You cn use other epeople's thoughts and add to them to make them more acceptable to othere people. The more universal the combined thinking the better.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

ToolGuy comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Bored.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 13, 2019:

@ToolGuy Well do you think that everyone needs basic training in the methodologies of science to even approach suggesting a definition. Non appreciation of science methodolgy can waste a great deal of time and set people on completely useless paths. Please see my group " Non Religious science teachers - any age." You do not have to have beeen a paid teacher

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

BrianFinn comments on Nov 11, 2019:

"Freethought (or free thought)[1] is an epistemological viewpoint which holds that positions regarding truth should be formed only on the basis of logic, reason, and empiricism, rather than authority, tradition, revelation, or dogma. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, a freethinker is "a ...

Mcflewster replies on Nov 12, 2019:

"I prefer it to "atheist" because it defines what I believe rather than what I do not believe." that is true but it says very little more than one fact. What words would give us a more complete picture. I prefer, for myself, ' Humanist 'because it says so much more about what I believ or not.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

ToolGuy comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Bored.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 12, 2019:

@ToolGuy I am with you but think that defining of terms is by no means easy and should be approached scientiically. Do you have a science backkground?

Is secularism the same as atheism or is it part of atheism? [secularism.org.uk]

Nuke comments on Nov 11, 2019:

I think secularism ignores god while atheism denies the existence of god.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 12, 2019:

And the god topic needs "SORTING"

Is secularism the same as atheism or is it part of atheism? [secularism.org.uk]

HankSherman comments on Nov 7, 2019:

I do not believe in god or gods...and I do believe in keeping religion out of government....maybe a distant relative to each other, but I don't see the two things as kissing cousins.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 12, 2019:

@HankSherman Ok you might get a satisfactory answer there. I haave not had the problem but it does need finding out by some people.

Is secularism the same as atheism or is it part of atheism? [secularism.org.uk]

Catinahat comments on Nov 12, 2019:

I've felt that secularists are atheist hopefuls...just not quite ready to join that gravy train. They like to meet weekly in a "non-churchy" way and do good deeds for the community. Ultimately, tho, they have not fully committed to the nonexistence of a higher being

Mcflewster replies on Nov 12, 2019:

A good analyis . I think we are all hopefuls until we do something social and practical.

OK so we all get bored to death with the meaning of 'spiritual' question.

ToolGuy comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Bored.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 11, 2019:

A "free-liver" [ not a body part] would never be bored

What if God is the wrong thing to call something?

Mcflewster comments on Nov 11, 2019:

Quite simply a lot of us have been brought up to thank someone for everything very politely , so if there is nothing else to thank for our existence ( apart form mum and dad of course) then something had to be invented. Cognisence is really a human attribute but the all powerful bit had to be ...

Mcflewster replies on Nov 11, 2019:

@blahblah I agree animals have limited cognition but could not do the all powerful bit unless they were in a Philip Pullman novel.

Is secularism the same as atheism or is it part of atheism? [secularism.org.uk]

Mofo1953 comments on Nov 7, 2019:

Read a dictionary and you will know the difference.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 10, 2019:

@Mofo1953 Please see my updated reply. Thanks for correcting!

Is secularism the same as atheism or is it part of atheism? [secularism.org.uk]

HankSherman comments on Nov 7, 2019:

I do not believe in god or gods...and I do believe in keeping religion out of government....maybe a distant relative to each other, but I don't see the two things as kissing cousins.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 10, 2019:

@HankSherman I think you are right but ask a geneticist

SPIRITUAL.

Mcflewster comments on Nov 7, 2019:

From a previous posting ANYthing ' spiritual ' is just saying " I really do not understand this phenomena but it seems harmless and I will go along with it for the fear involved and I will spread it" This leaves YOU free to define it (As KKGator says) but the definition really needs testing ...

Mcflewster replies on Nov 10, 2019:

@Rodatheist As an agnostic Humanist trying to make sense of all shades and types of religion I find that I make the best satisfying progress in my thinking by taking forward into relious settings BASIC science processes [See my group on "Non Religious science teachers any age"] From my science teacher career I have learned, in the world where definitions are everything, that the true working defininition EVOLVES. When one definition appears not to work a pioneer scientst has to suggest another definition that encompasses both an old example and a completely new one. The perfect definition fits all possible existing definitions and all future ones. I cannot see how spirituality will ever be defined scientifically - not an impossility but will it be to do with anything external to the human body or will it to be with the psychologocal flow of emotions based on the subjects previous experiences and beliefs within the subjects body? My preferred attitude to sprituality is contained within Carl Sagan' photo elsewhere in this topic. So I do not think I will join the group. But I am not being sarcastic when I wish you luck because this genuinely needs fully talked out. In my opinion (not a fact note) it will go round in lots of circles and end up being destroyed by talking past any possiblity of agreement. HOWEVER I will look at the group without joining and try to follow any progress. You might think of messaging me when you think there is exceptional progress . So once again good luck, I look forward to reading your group as you seem genuinely to think it very important. Each to their own methods.

Is secularism the same as atheism or is it part of atheism? [secularism.org.uk]

BitFlipper comments on Nov 8, 2019:

Google them both.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 9, 2019:

You expecting cohesion from that?

Is secularism the same as atheism or is it part of atheism? [secularism.org.uk]

IamNobody comments on Nov 9, 2019:

It's semantics. Who cares?

Mcflewster replies on Nov 9, 2019:

Secularism is a movement which confuses many peoples thinking. I would much rathere aim to get rid of religion altogether than have a sort of apartheid split society

Is secularism the same as atheism or is it part of atheism? [secularism.org.uk]

Marionville comments on Nov 8, 2019:

Secularism is the principle of separation of the state from religious institutions. It is quite separate from atheism, and there are many religious people who are also proponents of secularism.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 8, 2019:

@Marionville People are People. Love 'em or leave 'em. ?

Is secularism the same as atheism or is it part of atheism? [secularism.org.uk]

LiterateHiker comments on Nov 8, 2019:

Look it up. Dictionary.com is your friend. **Atheism ** 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God. 2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings. **Secularism** 1. secular spirit or tendency, especially a system of political or social philosophy that rejects all ...

Mcflewster replies on Nov 8, 2019:

I have nothing against Dictionaries. Freedom of speech prevents me altering any but Carl Sagan's definition of Fantasy is a ' blanket ' one which was gained through looking at lots of definitions. as with Fake news we should not have just one source. Just one other illustration that we are social animals. I do like the fact that you have given 2X2 definitions coming from 2 different angles in each case. Well almost.

Is secularism the same as atheism or is it part of atheism? [secularism.org.uk]

MattHardy comments on Nov 8, 2019:

I would suggest it quite natural for an atheist, who is someone who lives their life without religion to support secularism, keeping religion out of government. Not entirely a necessary consequence of atheism but understandably common. However Atheism isn't a requirement for secularism. The founding...

Mcflewster replies on Nov 8, 2019:

Like your appreciation of USA history

Is secularism the same as atheism or is it part of atheism? [secularism.org.uk]

Mofo1953 comments on Nov 7, 2019:

Read a dictionary and you will know the difference.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 8, 2019:

There are too many dictionaries which do not move with the times. Sometimes they are not staffed fully with scientific types of thinking. Scientists are the ones who demand upon meaningful defitions for their income,resepct and livelihood.

Is secularism the same as atheism or is it part of atheism? [secularism.org.uk]

HankSherman comments on Nov 7, 2019:

I do not believe in god or gods...and I do believe in keeping religion out of government....maybe a distant relative to each other, but I don't see the two things as kissing cousins.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 8, 2019:

"Kissing cousins" means unlikey to form a productive union.Am I right?

SPIRITUAL.

Seeker3CO comments on Nov 7, 2019:

We will NOT all agree. But I do like your definitions and I can totally support them. Some people are VERY hung up on word choices, kinda like they are extremely irritated by grammatical or spelling errors. Because the small small small picture matters more to them than understanding others. ...

Mcflewster replies on Nov 8, 2019:

Are you trying to define a 'club' that lapsed religionists can join or just find a word that describes your feelings in certain situations. Many poets have done the latter without using the word spirituality let alone define it.

Is secularism the same as atheism or is it part of atheism? [secularism.org.uk]

Marionville comments on Nov 8, 2019:

Secularism is the principle of separation of the state from religious institutions. It is quite separate from atheism, and there are many religious people who are also proponents of secularism.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 8, 2019:

I do know that at one stage members of the NSS had to be instructed by their leader over what secularim meant. Just like having lived through a lack of explanation of Brexit.

SPIRITUAL.

WilliamFleming comments on Nov 7, 2019:

Great definition. I’m with you. The trouble with those dictionary definitions is that they are not sufficient. “Relating to the human spirit of soul”—what is the human spirit or soul? “Relating to religion or religious belief—how do you define religion? And those definitions ...

Mcflewster replies on Nov 7, 2019:

William, just not sure which definition you are talking about but that is because the computer separated your comment away from what you are talking about. Am I right that there is no one dictionary authority which says this definition is RIGHT above all others. Each just tries to help the reader understand but does not proclaim divine right. IMO it is better not to get too into one definition. In my science teaching I used to enjoy illustrating the evolution of definitions . any scientist here should be able to trace the evolution of the definition of oxidation to one that does have no apparent connection to the substance oxygen, to which it was originally attacched

SPIRITUAL.

basher comments on Nov 7, 2019:

that’s one definition. but when someone says, “i’m spiritual but not religious,” that’s not how they’re using the word. and that’s okay. language changes with the times, and if you’re not sure what someone means by that, you can ask them.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 7, 2019:

"i’m spiritual but not religious" Are they not just denying God? as is their right?

SPIRITUAL.

ColdFax comments on Nov 7, 2019:

What are we to do with "drinking spirits". Is "spirit" not the part of a person which is the seat of emotions and character than too! Let's roll the ball.

Mcflewster replies on Nov 7, 2019:

Drinking ' spirits' definitley have a force behind them which can for example knock you in a stupour onto the floor.

SPIRITUAL.

wordywalt comments on Nov 7, 2019:

I do not use the term "spiritual."

Mcflewster replies on Nov 7, 2019:

Lots do. Good for you BTW.

We, quite rightly have been giving a lot of attention to leaders lately.

genessa comments on Nov 2, 2019:

i don't understand the question. why would i want to persuade religious leaders of anything at all? (you're talking about christians, of course, and i have never been a christian, and know no christian leaders.) what do you mean by doing their best for people? g

Mcflewster replies on Nov 7, 2019:

@genessa Sorry not to have been of service.

I no longer even think of debating.

VictoriaNotes comments on Nov 6, 2019:

Debate is basically a formal, civil, discussion. If it's not civil, it's not a debate. It's the ability to concisely and clearly express complex issues. It can be a very effective tool for learning, allowing us to think about aspects and perspectives we may not have considered.