Loneliness and Dysfunctin: [nytimes.com]

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 20, 2021:

Jeeez, I get tired of people constantly posting links with paywalls or registration required to read the fucking article. I am getting to the point that I will probably stop even trying to click the links to them.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 20, 2021:

@BirdMan1 I think it's safe to say most of us don't have access, and certainly a lot of us don't. And are not interested in jumping thru hoops or paying to get it.

For @Admin My phone app for the site went wonkie this morning.

Marionville comments on Jul 19, 2021:

The site was down for a while earlier this afternoon (my afternoon is your morning)…so it wasn’t your end it must’ve been the site.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 20, 2021:

I think we're going to see more and more of this as the site becomes more of a ghost ship with no admin. or regular staff to install updates, etc. and keep out scammers wanting to use it for posting ads for businesses and such.

[youtube.com] If the South gets what they ask for...

Buttercup comments on Jul 19, 2021:

Good riddance, let em go. The west coast, northeast and Canada should form an open union and let them have their disease and ignorance.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 20, 2021:

I so would like that, but since I live in the Midwest, I would get left out of the new open union and have to move, but it might be worth it. Housing prices would go way up in the places that became part of the new open union.

Idiocracy: a disturbingly prophetic look at the future of America – and our era of stupidity | ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 19, 2021:

I have seen it and it looks like a documentary for the future around the time I hope to be dead by.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2021:

@bobwjr I hope you turn out to be more right about this than me..

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

OldMetalHead comments on Jul 19, 2021:

Hate to say it, but you might have to widen your search area. I know it's desirable to look only in your local area. But, what if the right person is two or three hours away? Is it worth a short term sacrifice to find them?

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2021:

@OldMetalHead There are always exceptions to every rule. I am happy for them and hope it works out. I am not willing to put that much time, money, and emotional investment into something that has so much stacked against it working in the first place. It's hard enough to get a relationship to work even when you live close by each other, esp. if one of you is still working and/or has kids or an elderly parent to look after.

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

Zoohome comments on Jul 19, 2021:

Many good comments given. But I would say that finding someone in the middle of a group that do similar things as you do such as a hobby or activity. Also, sit down with a female friend and ask her honest opinion. You might have to change a few things here and there: such as looks, clothing, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2021:

I support someone continuing to attend groups with the interests they already enjoy, but I disagree or think it's not worth the time to join additional groups just for the added opportunity to meet more women that way. Online dating sites, if you use the most popular one in your area for your age group, will probably cover any additional single women you might meet thru those other groups you aren't already involved in. Do women generally prefer meeting men thru the lower pressure, slower process of getting to know them thru a group? Of course they do, but I don't feel it's worth the time and effort to play that game for the chance to meet them in the maybe more comfortable terms if they are already, in most cases, putting themselves out there as single and interested in dating thru a paid dating site. Call that insensitive or selfish if you like, but I see it as we're all grownups and if someone is too flaky, defensive, or insecure that they need all this coddling and catering to give a man a chance to get to know her thru a group setting only, I don't want to bother with her. She is probably too fragile and dysfunctional for me to be compatible with anyway. I like women who are strong, independent, and confident, so the women who prefer making men jump thru their hoops at a group are not my type to begin with. But if a man has different personality preferences than mine, then, go ahead and try more groups, it's just not for me. The second part, about getting feedback from a female friend, is pure gold, and I highly recommend it. Same thing with single women getting feedback from male friends.

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

OldMetalHead comments on Jul 19, 2021:

Hate to say it, but you might have to widen your search area. I know it's desirable to look only in your local area. But, what if the right person is two or three hours away? Is it worth a short term sacrifice to find them?

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2021:

You make a good point, and I have sometimes come across a woman far away that viewed my profile on Batch or some other dating site and seemed like an ideal match. But anytime I have actually chatted and messaged with a woman like that from a paid site, they have always said they were not interested in dating LD or relocating anytime in the future. So the idea is good in theory, but in practice, I have found there are probably very few women out there willing to attempt LD dating or relocate for a man. And I am not willing to do either. Of course, if a man is willing to do either or both of those, unlike me, it might be worth the trouble of expanding the search and at least asking seemingly compatible women about their interest in him, LD dating, and relocating, even if the answer is almost always no, since he only needs one compatible woman saying Yes. I get enough rejection as it is without increasing my diet of it, lol....

Arlene, my housekeeper of 12 years, passed away last month.

Lauren comments on Jul 18, 2021:

I'm so sorry for your loss. I suspect after 12 years she had become an integral part of your life and you'll miss her for some time. I hope your memories help comfort you through your loss. I understand your dilemma. I no longer attend funerals unless it's for someone I'm close to. It's just too...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2021:

@Lauren I totally agree with you, I show up mostly for the dead person out of appreciation for them, and like you, I don't go is it's someone I only knew casually.

I officiated a wedding yesterday and ended up doing divorce counseling for a woman in the ladies ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 19, 2021:

You're talking about the same woman in both cases, right?

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2021:

@UUNJ Good, that's a relief. I figured that kind of sudden buyer's remorse or cold feet only happens in the movies.

I officiated a wedding yesterday and ended up doing divorce counseling for a woman in the ladies ...

Silver1wun comments on Jul 19, 2021:

Marriage as we know it is destructive of healthy, natural bonds. It turns a bond of shared life and experience into an adversarial 'relationship' wherein promises are made and tokens exchanged on a foundation not of trust; but by the very necessity of the ritual and contract, distrust. A strong ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2021:

My late wife and I both signed prenups before we got married, and I would recommend them for everybody. We had trust before the marriage, but, as my wife said, marriage is mostly a business arrangement as far as the legal aspects of it. She had and made a lot more money than me as well.

Arlene, my housekeeper of 12 years, passed away last month.

Lauren comments on Jul 18, 2021:

I'm so sorry for your loss. I suspect after 12 years she had become an integral part of your life and you'll miss her for some time. I hope your memories help comfort you through your loss. I understand your dilemma. I no longer attend funerals unless it's for someone I'm close to. It's just too...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2021:

I still attend Christian or Catholic funerals if it's a person I actually knew and liked, as well as members of my family, because even tho I don't like or agree with the religious stuff, I do it out of respect and appreciation of the dead person, and to show my support to the surviving friends and family. I consider it no big deal to keep quiet during the service and not be too critical of things afterward, just maybe saying that I feel different about honoring the dead, etc. As I said below, their house, their rules. I don't have to agree with their rules and ways to feel an obligation and value in just showing up and giving my support and love for the dead that way.

Arlene, my housekeeper of 12 years, passed away last month.

Beowulfsfriend comments on Jul 18, 2021:

When my Dad died, I wasn't much help. I was there with him in the hospital. My Mom let a cousin run the funeral. Way too religious. As we left my son said, "If Pop-Pop had a god, it was FDR. Few attendees were happy with the evangelical bs, but no one said anything at the time. No religious shit ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2021:

Sounds typical. You live in the Midwest, like me, where everyone is too bound up in enforced politeness to speak up about stuff like how the service had too much evangelical BS. Except for maybe a few radical troublemakers like me, lol......

These days I mostly just want someone to talk to.

BethPl comments on Jul 17, 2021:

I live alone, not even pets to talk to. I tried to sing a few days ago and found that my voice has deteriorated badly. I talk to myself aloud now and even reply so that I can exercise my vocal cords! LOL I was so glad when I received the 2nd vaccine and could go around people. But I live in ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2021:

Maybe get a pet so you can talk to them without thinking or feeling like you're crazy, lol. Who knows, the pet may even enjoy it or find it amusing...And you're right about our speaking voices deteriorating with lack of exercise. I notice it if I haven't been out to sing karaoke regularly. I have been thur MO to visit my friend in the KC area, and I can believe Covid has broken out there again. Too many Trumpers, even worse than here in Iowa.

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

BethPl comments on Jul 17, 2021:

What you're experiencing happens to both sexes. Being online makes people feel like they can disappear easily so they don't have to give an explanation. They don't feel a personal connection. No matter how well people click online it won't guarantee that it will work face to face. I knew people ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2021:

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Putting off the first in person meeting may make the woman safer, but it's also likely to waste your time and hers once you finally meet in person and one of you feels no physical attraction at all to the other. If someone has a busy life and is working, they may wish they hadn't wasted all that time messaging when it turned out there was no chemistry. If a woman is really concerned about being stalked, I would suggest spending a little money on getting a background check on the guy, after asking for his full name and birthdate or place of birth, something like that. If he balks, that may tell you all you need to know.

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

RussRAB comments on Jul 17, 2021:

I am certainly no expert, and I wonder if such a direct approach is the best one for long term relationships. I am recently widowed and not ready for a new relationship, although another relationship down the road is not out of the question. A long term relationship would eventually be what I would ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2021:

I agree with you about pressure to move fast on dating sites, but I don't do that and really try to avoid it. Because doing that just triggers the natural defensiveness that most single women seem to have towards assuming the man is desperate, lonely, needy, or wanting to just move quickly into sex and then dump them. I try to take it slow, but one thing I've adopted from Sticks that makes so much sense, is that I avoid turning into a text or message buddy for a woman thru the dating site. If they are not ready to at least do a video chat, or better yet, meet in person after trading several messages each back and forth on our parts, I cut that woman loose, as she is either too insecure about herself, possibly already seeing another man for regular dates, and wants to hold off on meeting me (this is called benching in the dating lingo), or is just not that serious about meeting someone. Or it could be they are a workaholic, too involved with their family and have no real time or interest in a couple relationship with a man eventually, or a combination of some of these. Regardless, I won't waste my time on them anymore, because it's more important to me to meet them in person or video within a week or two of messaging to see if there is any mutual chemistry, physical attraction, or whatever term you want to use. To keep trading messages for several weeks or more without meeting and testing this compatibility issue is just stupid and a waste of time. And I really don't think there's that much difference between men or women in that respect. Women decide within at least the first or second in person meeting if they feel some attraction and have a desire to kiss the man, for example, by the end of the meeting. I know lots of women say different, that they develop physical attraction much later sometimes, but although there are certainly exceptions, I think that is mostly just high-minded happy talk to make themselves feel they are superior or less shallow, so to speak than men. I'm old enough to remember the old days of singles bars and dance clubs, where women made up their mind about a man's attractiveness just as quick as men did for women. I doubt much has really changed with either gender.

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 17, 2021:

I hear ya, and I feel your pain. I have had all those experiences and more. In fact during one four month stretch, I got stood up by four different women for the first in person meeting for coffee. I felt like giving up then, but I didn't. I doubt you're doing something wrong, that's just how the ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

@linxminx Thank you, finally, a voice of sanity. I have had this confirmed by so many women from Agnostic who live on the coasts. And you nailed it exactly, what I've been saying for a few years now. Namely, that these women will never date a man who is childless, no matter if she and I are retirement age, when it should no longer matter at all, because they run and hide after their divorces by clinging to their family, who may not even like them that much or want them around as much as the woman wants to be with them. And you're right, it's because they probably married young and are totally lost as a single woman again. And I really think they are afraid of anything unfamiliar or different than their experience, like childless men by choice, me, widowed men, again, me, because they would rather keep trying their luck with only fellow divorced men, rather than widowed men who might have a much better relationship track record or more skill at doing relationships well. So I get passed up because of their fear and clinging to the familiar. In my mind, they deserve what they get if they keep choosing the same type of man, all because he has familiar and similar traits to them, You can't fix dysfunctional without therapy, and I've had mine, but apparently most of my local dating pool hasn't, at least most of the divorced women. If there were a large enough pool of them my age on Match in my local area that were widowed like me, I would stick solely to them and ignore the divorced women's profiles, But there aren't many of them my age, maybe 10-15% tops, of the pool, as I am still too young to be in the dating range of most of the widowed women. Maybe in five or ten years, my odds will improve. As long as they are close to me in age, I have had way more response and pleasant experiences with the widowed women I've connected with on Match, because they are generally emotionally healthier, more independent and strong, even if they have kids and grandkids they love, and they seem to treat me better and show me more interest than the divorced women. They also don't have that general negative attitude towards men that so many divorced women seem to have, in my experience. Yes, maybe their ex was an asshole, but, as another guy here pointed out, you need to give each new person you connect with on dating sites a clean slate to start with. Not all men or women are assholes or dysfunctional, tho it sometimes seem that way. No fucking shit, it's not much of a mystery. The only divorced women I've met that seem to have their head on straight regarding family, are the very few divorced transplants to Iowa that give me the chance. Because they didn't grow up in the Midwest and get all the brainwashing... And it's no fucking accident that my late wife grew up in ...

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

Leelu comments on Jul 17, 2021:

Dating sites did not work for me. My experience was mostly: Young men who wanted to either fuck easy prey of older lonely women or had a mother complex. Middle-aged men who wanted caregivers for their not quite grown children. Older men looking for a nurse-with-a-purse. Assholes with so much BS ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

@Leelu Of course, it could never be about you anything you said. And if you want to get into nitpicking with me, you made a comment, not a post. Piss off.

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

redhog comments on Jul 17, 2021:

Dating sites are trash. Hate to be so blunt about it but that's just the reality. Half of them use fake profiles to get you to pay for the upgraded membership. The other half are chock full of phishing bots.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

I agree somewhat with you, but in four years on Match I have connected with probably at least a couple hundred women, at least thru messaging, who were clearly for real and sincere. It's just that few of them were my type or chose to meet or date me after getting to know more about me and my competition, who for all I know were noticeably better-looking, maybe dress better or appear to have more money than me, have kids (an issue which is really big in my dating pool, even among childless women), or are religious, who knows their reasons, as I am never privy to that? I have also encountered a lot of women, who at least later said, after connecting with me thru messaging, that they were giving up on online dating because of all the hassles or the jerks they were getting messages from, feeling overwhelmed, etc.. I cannot verify if they were being truthful, but they usually appeared to hide or delete their profiles after that, so I assume they left the site.

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

Canndue comments on Jul 17, 2021:

For all the lonely men out there, there are just as many lonely women. You can’t catch anything without putting your bait in the water. But if you keep casting in the same pool with only an occasional nibble, try a new pool.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

@Canndue I think I can answer that, so I'll try. Time, patience, and online dating. I've been around my local area and on Match for close to four years now, and I have learned that I am compatible with only about 2-3% of my local dating pool on Match. And at the same time I am competing with hundreds of other men my age for those women on the site. And this is based on how their profiles match up to mine on paper, so to speak. So, in a word, I need to play the long game and wait for those minority women to come along in trickles over time, maybe a couple or sometimes a handful a month, and hope they will notice my similarity to them and reply to my initial message. After making those efforts, one can only sit back and wait, while making the most of each opportunity when a woman actually replies. Even then tho, I know pretty well that in most cases I am competing with at least a few to a dozen other men that she is messaging. I just have to assume that and not let it interfere with how I interact with her. Does that answer your ?

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

skado comments on Jul 17, 2021:

Dating sites are a terrible way to meet people for real relationships. It subverts all the normal human processes and makes promises it can’t keep. It may work fine for people who are just looking for indiscriminate sex, and I’m sure the occasional wonderful relationship has emerged from dating...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

@skado Same to you. I hope each of us eventually finds success with our chosen methods.

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

skado comments on Jul 17, 2021:

Dating sites are a terrible way to meet people for real relationships. It subverts all the normal human processes and makes promises it can’t keep. It may work fine for people who are just looking for indiscriminate sex, and I’m sure the occasional wonderful relationship has emerged from dating...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

@skado I share your preference for the more natural organic way of meeting women, and that's how I met my late wife, at a folk dance after I had been attending those for a few years, both with friends and on my own. But that was the early 1990s and I was not only a lot younger then and better looking, but that whole folk dance scene died out for good over 15 years ago. It was a lucky fluke that I met her at the right time in the right setting. I am not going to just rely on that kind of thing again as my main or sole method. It would take way too long and be less likely to succeed these days. As I have said before, my past experience in recent years checking out the Meetup groups and such, showed me that it was pretty much the same women on Match and at those groups. I would rather just cut right to the chase, as you would say, going on trial with women who at least say they are looking to date someone, and await the verdict than keep attending and joining groups hoping that some of my kind of women happen to show up when I do and that I will end up approaching the right ones after getting acqauinted with them enough to see who I like, and having to hope they are single and looking to date. That sounds like way more time and work than I have to invest with online dating, with way fewer opportunities to meet someone compatible for an offbeat character like me. Because I should also say that when I tried the Meetup interest groups, it also seemed like almost all the women there in my age group also turned up in the membership lists of the local Christian Singles group on Meetup. Why waste my time with them and hope that some of them might accept an Agnostic for dating? At least on a dating site I get some initial info on them, including religious affiliation without having to chat up incompatible women to find out if we have anything in common. If my lifestyle were different, and I were a musician, say like Sticks, I could rely on that to meet women for dating and naturally get to know them at gigs, or if I had a job that gave me lots of exposure to the public, including women my age, but I really don't feel like volunteering or working any more. I enjoy retirement now and just sticking with the interests I have been enjoying for years, even if they don't yield any opportunities to meet single women. I think getting a job or volunteering are long shots anyway for meeting single women and also there are often norms against trying to approach customers or other volunteers for that anyway at workplaces or volunteer jobs. It's not as encouraged, tolerated, or easy as some people might think.

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

Canndue comments on Jul 17, 2021:

For all the lonely men out there, there are just as many lonely women. You can’t catch anything without putting your bait in the water. But if you keep casting in the same pool with only an occasional nibble, try a new pool.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

Overall, your advice is sound, but for me it seems the only real option to be able to connect with a large enough pool of women in my local area in order to be able to reach some of the very few that share my cultural minority traits and lifestyle. Offline and organic meetings, even in interest groups, are not going to cut it or provide even a fraction of the potential opportunities and numbers as online dating. And as far as trying a different dating pool online than Match, which has by far the largest membership pool of my age group in my local area, I've done that before and discovered that it was mostly the same women on the other sites, women wasting their money by joining multiple sites at the same time. As for expanding my dating pool geographically by dating women more than an hour away, not going to do that either, as I have chatted with plenty of women from farther away than that on Match, and none of them were willing to try dating that far away either, so that is also a dead end option.

Truer words , very powerful

twitch comments on Jul 17, 2021:

I wonder what Karen is looking at....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

Good one. Proof that there were Karens long before it became an internet meme..

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

skado comments on Jul 17, 2021:

Dating sites are a terrible way to meet people for real relationships. It subverts all the normal human processes and makes promises it can’t keep. It may work fine for people who are just looking for indiscriminate sex, and I’m sure the occasional wonderful relationship has emerged from dating...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

@skado I dated one woman for about six months before Covid that I met on Match. It mutually ended soon after Covid hit, and it never became serious or sexual because, to be honest, I never felt enough physical attraction for her to move on to either or commit to it with her. I am currently dating a woman who I connected with on Match in March. That one is still in process and has not become sexual or serious either as I have doubts about whether it can be long term, due to her living circumstances. So I wouldn't consider either relationship to be an LTR, but I hope my answer to your ? is helpful. BTW, the woman from Match that I'm seeing now met her late husband, of a 24 year marriage, on Match. He died two years ago.

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

Leelu comments on Jul 17, 2021:

Dating sites did not work for me. My experience was mostly: Young men who wanted to either fuck easy prey of older lonely women or had a mother complex. Middle-aged men who wanted caregivers for their not quite grown children. Older men looking for a nurse-with-a-purse. Assholes with so much BS ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

@Leelu You listed several categories or types of men that you encountered, and your descriptions were very clearly negative, critical or derogatory regarding them. You can come back, like you did in your reply to me, and try to walk it back, as they say, in political commentary, but everyone can see what you wrote previously. Secondly, you strongly warned the OP about how men need to avoid any hint of desperation or seeming like they were seeking their "lonely breaker", rather than a partner. When I read that, it comes off to me like you are making it damn near impossible for a man to honestly and openly say that he prefers and is happier with a partner than without one. To me it comes off as if you are accusing men like me who are open about our wishes for a life partner as less secure, mentally healthy or well-adjusted as you, just because we choose and feel differently about the subject than you. Just because I feel and choose different than you does not make me bad, unhealthy or worse than you. Your attitude seems to smack of that, and I bet plenty of people, including other men, read your comment and see that, whether you see it or not or care to admit it or not. I do not accept your judgement in general of men on that, and that is why I was offended. by it. I am done debating you on this and if you choose to continue arguing with me on it, I will block you.

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

Leelu comments on Jul 17, 2021:

Dating sites did not work for me. My experience was mostly: Young men who wanted to either fuck easy prey of older lonely women or had a mother complex. Middle-aged men who wanted caregivers for their not quite grown children. Older men looking for a nurse-with-a-purse. Assholes with so much BS ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

@FearlessFly You got it man, that is exactly what I am looking to do. As I know that I am set in my ways some after living alone for the last seven years, and that I probably am not likely to keep my home as clean and uncluttered as most women. So your approach might be just the ticket...I am not eager to live with someone again either...

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

Leelu comments on Jul 17, 2021:

Dating sites did not work for me. My experience was mostly: Young men who wanted to either fuck easy prey of older lonely women or had a mother complex. Middle-aged men who wanted caregivers for their not quite grown children. Older men looking for a nurse-with-a-purse. Assholes with so much BS ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

Like Sticks says, It goes both ways. There is no rational reason for it, but I have met plenty of women online, at least messaged with them on dating sites, that seem to HAVE developed a general resentment towards all men or even misandry, the opposite sex version of misogyny, because of a limited number of men they met that were assholes. I am happy for you and your choice working well for you. For me, it is worth the time and effort to wade thru all the rejection and also the women who turn out to be dysfunctional or misleading in their profiles. I was single for 37 years before I met my late wife, and even tho I had friends during all that time of single life, I missed not having a close relationship with a partner to share my life with. The 16 years I had with her before she got dementia were the best years of my life. Wanting to find something like that again does not automatically make me "needy" or dysfunctional and I challenge anyone who dares to call me that for my wish to seek that again in my life. I think lots of people just like to put other people down for choosing a different path than they did, maybe because they secretly envy that person for still having the guts and desire to seek love again. But I am secure about who I am and what I want. I apologize to no one for it. And I have heard about all the studies saying that it's common in marriages for the man to be very happy in the marriage while the woman is unhappy in it, but that was not the case with us. How do I know? Because her female friends said so to me... And I also don't fit any of your categories for "bad" men, as I don't have any kids, and have plenty of money to get by, as well as not needing a woman to take care of me medically or be a house servant like cooking or cleaning. But I don't doubt that you ran into plenty of men that fit the types you mentioned. As far as what types of women my age in my local dating pool seem to be prominent, where almost all of them have kids: I have seen tons of women who seem to indicate from their profiles (tho I would never bother messaging them, since they are clearly not my type) that they appear to be mainly seeking an escort to accompany them to family visits, maybe to show them off to family, and friends. And then maybe on top of that, because Iowa women are too modest and discreet to say so in a profile, they are seeking a discreet FWB with the man as well if they are still desiring some safe and stable sex in their life. I have also seen some women who appear sincere in actually finding a partner that is more than an escort for family visits or FWB, but they are a small minority, even among women who don't have kids. I have also seen another group, about maybe 15% of the profiles, who appear to just be looking for a ...

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

RussRAB comments on Jul 17, 2021:

I am certainly no expert, and I wonder if such a direct approach is the best one for long term relationships. I am recently widowed and not ready for a new relationship, although another relationship down the road is not out of the question. A long term relationship would eventually be what I would ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

Your comments actually make a lot of sense and I can relate to them a lot. I agree that most people on dating sites probably have unrealistically high expectations, I know I did for the first two years or so on Match. I learned that the high rejection rates are nothing personal, got used to and accepted that I had to do all the pursuing on dating sites, since in my area the women are usually very traditional-minded and passive in the dating game that way. I lowered my expectations a lot in the last two years. A Unitarian church or humanist group is probably a good idea, esp. if you could use more friends or desire to have some emotional support or community from fellow non-believers, but as far as meeting someone to date, I wouldn't rely on that too much. Most of the women my age at the local Unitarian church are either already coupled up or not interested in dating, according to a female friend around my age who used to lead the singles group they had there until a few years ago. Also, another woman I know from that church who is very active there in different groups and such is on Match just like me, because she said there were no real or good prospects for her in the church's dating puddle, even tho she's been a member there for decades. Finally, I good friend who goes to a local group for Atheists and Freethinkers, as well as a Humanists group, reports to me there are very few single women my age that attend either of these groups. The few women that do attend are usually coupled up at the group. So I have done the research, so to speak, and I know of what I speak.

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

skado comments on Jul 17, 2021:

Dating sites are a terrible way to meet people for real relationships. It subverts all the normal human processes and makes promises it can’t keep. It may work fine for people who are just looking for indiscriminate sex, and I’m sure the occasional wonderful relationship has emerged from dating...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

I totally agree with you about what is wrong and negative about dating sites, but you have to be realistic also about common interests groups. I have done that and it takes way too long to meet singles that way. And even if you join a bunch of them and are active with all of them, it still presents way too fewer opportunities to meet singles that way. The dating pool in online dating sites, at least the biggest one, Match, provides immediate access to so many more singles who are at least obtensibly interested in dating than relying on interest groups, where many of the people there are already coupled, inside or outside of the group, or just not interested at all in dating. And my experience also showed that the vast majority of single women at these groups were already on the dating sites. So why waste time using both methods, when the organic method of interest groups is so much slower and inefficient than dating sites, where dozens of new people are joining each month in my area that are in my age group. Because in my experience, these interest groups have a much lower rate of new people joining them over time. So going that way, you miss out on a lot of new people that are coming onto the dating site each month with the new rounds of death and divorce, at least some of whom might be compatible. Face to face meeting to begin with, rather than following a bunch of messaging on dating sites, would be great if it worked, but in my local area, it doesn't appear to work, at least not if you are just average-looking and don't have great sales or self promotion skills, or "game" as the younger folks call it. Women my age in my area have admitted to me on dating sites that they would feel awkward about calling a man who they met in public who gave them their number, and yet at the same time, they feel uncomfortable giving him their number, even after chatting, for fear they might be stalked. So it just doesn't work, at least for an average looking man who doesn't sweep them off their feet with looks and a smooth pitch. And going thru all that time in interest groups to maybe meet one woman a month that seems compatible enough to ask out, is going to take way too many years to produce any real results like an LTR.

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

linxminx comments on Jul 17, 2021:

You're looking for a partner like you're shopping for a loaf of bread, and you're meeting those who are also doing it like its "shopping for a loaf of bread." We've been deluded into believing that this is how its done. In my opinion, it doesn't work. My advice? 1. Go have a life! Go live ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

I agree with your general attitude of Go Live Your Life, but I would add one caveat. At my age, 62, when you're retired, no longer attending school, or working, and not attending a church, your opportunities to meet other singles are very limited, even if you are going out, as I often do, to social events, like in my case going to sing karaoke, hearing live band concerts, attending classes for older adults, etc. I have tried approaching women at those kind of things in the past, and it provides relatively few opportunities to meet single women who are interested in dating. Approaching women and chatting them up, and even trying to exchange phone numbers doesn't really work, as women here, at least in my area, are not used to that kind of organically meeting at social events. And it also takes much longer to meet someone compatible in those settings because most of the women are not available for dating or interested in dating. So, unless you're willing to spend years mostly wasting your time trying to meet people organically at my age, online dating is the only real option to speed up the process and allow you to try connecting to a pool of hundreds of women at one time that are all at least supposedly single and interested in dating. And I'm not interested in being single for another five years after already being widowed for over four years now. I realize that lots of women who are above average looking have no problem meeting single men organically just by showing up at public events and social settings like I mentioned above. But here in the MIdwest, the social rules dictate that men do all the pursuing, while women sit back and wait to be pursued. So an average looking man is not going to have women coming up to him and asking him if he would like to go out with them. And if pursuing women as I described above is very inefficient and unsuccessful, as it has been for me, then online dating is the only real option. BTW, I totally agree with your analogy of people approaching online dating like shopping for a product. That approach is wrong, selfish, and impersonal in that it ignores how complex we all are as human beings and that we need to see and realize that no one person will be perfect and check all the boxes on our list of wants regarding traits, interests, background, etc. Instead, we need to approach it more like having a general list of guidelines for what kind of person we want to meet, then take it from there after we connect with them to listen to our gut, and get to know them with an open mind about who they are totally. And just stay open to the experience of how we feel around them and how well we relate to each other, the same way we go in forming new friendships. We surely don't approach those with a rigid shopping list where ...

I'm 58 and looking for a partner.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 17, 2021:

I hear ya, and I feel your pain. I have had all those experiences and more. In fact during one four month stretch, I got stood up by four different women for the first in person meeting for coffee. I felt like giving up then, but I didn't. I doubt you're doing something wrong, that's just how the ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2021:

@linxminx I am a nice person and I don't want a woman to give up her life or her family and friends to spend time with me and be a couple with me. What seems to be a big issue tho, at least with women in my local dating pool on Batch, is that almost all the women with kids, even if they are adult kids, are very family-oriented, unlike me. This seems to be a bigger deal with women in the Midwest than women who live on the coasts, who seem to have a much more balanced, independent attitude towards their family. Women in the Midwest, at least those in my local dating pool that have kids, seem to talk a lot about their family in their profiles and imply that they want the man to take third place in their life from the get go, and spend most of their shared couple time visiting the adult kids and grandkids. And there's no fucking way I will agree to that. I don't mind a woman I am dating seeing her family every week or more, but I'm not interested in going with them for all those visits. To me, most of the profiles in my dating pool of women with kids, even the women in their 60s, seem to be looking only for men with kids, which I'm not one of, and for men who are content to serve mainly as their escort for family visits, rather than a partner to enjoy a reasonable amount of couple time with doing couple things away from the woman's family. If that's what they want, then they need to date Mike Brady, from the Brady Bunch, not me. This Midwest attitude of seeking a man to mainly be an escort for family visits makes me wonder why they are even on a dating site, since they really aren't interested in any kind of normal, balanced relationship with a man who is a true life partner or the most important person in their life, even eventually after they have been dating for months or years. Maybe what they are after, but too modest to come out and admit, is that they want an escort to the family visits and then sort of a FWB on the side with that same man so they can resume a sex life as well without just hooking up with men from dating sites.

According to one of my friends, I’m going to the Christian Hell just because I’m Pro-LGBT.

Deb57 comments on Jul 15, 2021:

I live in a very Jesus-y rural area. I have been threatened with hell for all kinds of reasons.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2021:

@Deb57 True, it would only give pleasure to a real sadist.

According to one of my friends, I’m going to the Christian Hell just because I’m Pro-LGBT.

SnowyOwl comments on Jul 15, 2021:

I've been threatened with guns, knives, baseball bats and fisticuffs, all of them were more real than hell.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2021:

@Holysocks Same with my last fight. It was during a pickup basketball game and it's debatable who started it. I just got tired of this kid elbowing me repeatedly, so I told him that the next time he did it, I was going to hit him. So when he did it again, I clotheslined him right under his chin and dropped him. I then jumped on him and kept hitting him until someone pulled me off him. He never messed with me again.

According to one of my friends, I’m going to the Christian Hell just because I’m Pro-LGBT.

SnowyOwl comments on Jul 15, 2021:

I've been threatened with guns, knives, baseball bats and fisticuffs, all of them were more real than hell.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2021:

@Holysocks I hear you on that, but I prefer being a pacifist, and I don't make empty threats, actually don't enjoy threatening, much less fighting people at all. The last time I was in a fight was in junior high. This guy could probably wup me in a fight, but he would have to throw the first punch, so that way he would go to jail over it, not me. But I know that if he did start it, I would not stop hitting him until one of us was unconscious. I would not hesitate to defend myself. I refuse to passively take a beating from anyone.

I'm defiantly happier since I been an Atheist and my mind opening to more things like dating outside...

lerlo comments on Jul 13, 2021:

Well I decided it against it long ago. I had already put up with religious discrimination for my whole life and wasn't about to add racial discrimination to it. So just be prepared for racial discrimination that you've never encountered personally, or probably any discrimination for that matter. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

It does complicate things and add stress for both of you, esp. if you live in a culturally backward state like I do. Lots of staring and some open hostility in public, at least that I have seen and heard about from people in mixed race couples I have known or talked to. Still, things are more accepting and tolerant in Iowa than it was when I was young.

I'm defiantly happier since I been an Atheist and my mind opening to more things like dating outside...

BD66 comments on Jul 14, 2021:

Watch out for the women from overseas, particularly if they have not established themselves with a career here. You don't know for certain whether she loves you for you, or whether she wants you for: 1. A green card. 2. Your money. 3. As a means to get her family into the USA. If you are ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

Sounds very wise. I would never try that route for finding a partner, tho a couple women have even suggested it to me in the past, imagine that, from white women raised in the US. You sound like you may be speaking from experience, either your own or that of friends.

I'm defiantly happier since I been an Atheist and my mind opening to more things like dating outside...

Canndue comments on Jul 15, 2021:

Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Your approach seems racist at best. Race, gender, size age should not matter at all…….so long as she has nice breasts….that is essential 😉

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

You dog, you, lol!

According to one of my friends, I’m going to the Christian Hell just because I’m Pro-LGBT.

Tourirst comments on Jul 15, 2021:

Funny you'd ask this question? Today, I was told "it is not to late save my soul and repent.". This was in response to this post. "I'm an atheist, and that's it. I believe there's nothing we can know except that we should be kind to each other and do what we can for each other." —Katharine ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

My favorite movie line on that sort of thing is from the movie Crimes Of Passion, directed by Ken Russell. When a perverted street preacher who frequents peep shows, played by Anthony Perkins says to the hooker played by Kathleen Turner, "Save your soul, whore!", she retorts by saying "Save your money, shithead!" Still love that twisted movie!

According to one of my friends, I’m going to the Christian Hell just because I’m Pro-LGBT.

Beowulfsfriend comments on Jul 15, 2021:

Who hasn't? As a teacher, I was pretty careful about any non god statements. However, most of my students knew my liberal leanings. That and I did on occasion go to the Unitarian Society (2 of my 3 kids enjoyed going there). I did have one sophomore girl, from an evangelical family tell me that I...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

Well, ok and alrighty then, as far as her sexual choice there....

According to one of my friends, I’m going to the Christian Hell just because I’m Pro-LGBT.

Budgie comments on Jul 15, 2021:

When some bible thumper in the street came up to me to ask if I believed in god and I told him of course not and refused to engage with him further he said if I didn't accept god into my heart I would burn in the fires of hell. I told him if he didn't get out of my face I would call the police. He...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

You handled it really well and by the book.

According to one of my friends, I’m going to the Christian Hell just because I’m Pro-LGBT.

SnowyOwl comments on Jul 15, 2021:

I've been threatened with guns, knives, baseball bats and fisticuffs, all of them were more real than hell.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

It's a longer story than I am willing to even try to share here, but on Mon. I got threatened by another senior citizen around my age with "How about we go outside and I kick your ass?" in front of a full room of people during lunch at my local senior center. It arose out of a conversation I started in the hallway on the way in with one of his Trumper buddies and he was making his threat as a way of bringing the conflict to a head. The pity of it is, that the county organization that funds and oversees the center is probably not going to do anything about the public threat of assault that he shouted at me except talk to him and scold him about it. I got on the phone today with one of the bosses of the county organization and told him in no uncertain terms, that I could have gone to the local cops on Mon. after he threatened me, as I had plenty of witnesses, including staff, but I didn't want to put them in the middle of it with the cops. But I told him that if they go light on the guy that threatened me, and he then does it again, I will go to the cops, file a police report, and go after him for assault charges, and then they WILL be in the middle of it. And if it comes to that, and they try to kick me out or suspend me from the center for standing up for myself and going to the cops for a second threat, I will then go to the ACLU and sue their ass, if they would take my case.

According to one of my friends, I’m going to the Christian Hell just because I’m Pro-LGBT.

Deb57 comments on Jul 15, 2021:

I live in a very Jesus-y rural area. I have been threatened with hell for all kinds of reasons.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

I feel for you..

These days I mostly just want someone to talk to.

Zster comments on Jul 14, 2021:

My cats and plants might appreciate me finding another human to talk with, now and then! Feel free to drop me a question or topic via messaging, here.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

You can always talk to me as well...

The Young Turks - Ben Carson: Black Families Better Under Slavery [youtube.com]

Beowulfsfriend comments on Jul 15, 2021:

I'm sure most of his white friends think most other people would be better under serfdom as well.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

No doubt. But nowadays, formalized serfdom would lead to periodic revolutions, so the ruling class prefers to stick with our informal form of capitalist serfdom, made of with low wages, no job security, plenty of debt to keep the serfs in line, and the cops to ride herd on the uppity serfs.

let's just call the reasoning payback

Beowulfsfriend comments on Jul 14, 2021:

I like to say to those who say "it's history, " "Well, ok, then let's put up statues of Sherman all through Georgia because it's history."

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

@Beowulfsfriend You can't fix stupid or crazy....

let's just call the reasoning payback

Beowulfsfriend comments on Jul 14, 2021:

I like to say to those who say "it's history, " "Well, ok, then let's put up statues of Sherman all through Georgia because it's history."

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

@Beowulfsfriend Maybe.

An excellent point

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 14, 2021:

I have a couple friends who are way different than me on politics, and the only way we can get along is if we leave that topic off limits. One of them is a Libertarian, the other is a very centrist Dem who keeps refusing to recognize the faults and corruption of the Dem Party. But both of them agree...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

@mischl I have no doubt that is the biggest difference. A system that allows legalized bribery between the pols, the oligarchs, and corporations ensures that the pols will only be responsive to those donors, not the peasants who vote for them. The pols only need to pretend to care about the peasants every four or two years before elections, and with the help of the corporate media, the voters remain conned into thinking they matter to the pols.

let's just call the reasoning payback

Beowulfsfriend comments on Jul 14, 2021:

I like to say to those who say "it's history, " "Well, ok, then let's put up statues of Sherman all through Georgia because it's history."

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

A statue of Sherman in Georgia might last one day before being completely destroyed..

The Young Turks - Ben Carson: Black Families Better Under Slavery [youtube.com]

JonnaBononna comments on Jul 15, 2021:

What a fucking lunatic he is.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

@phxbillcee He belongs on the rice box, same as the other Uncle Ben...

An excellent point

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 14, 2021:

I have a couple friends who are way different than me on politics, and the only way we can get along is if we leave that topic off limits. One of them is a Libertarian, the other is a very centrist Dem who keeps refusing to recognize the faults and corruption of the Dem Party. But both of them agree...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2021:

@mischl I am guessing there are two reasons for that. One, is that Germany's parlimentary system, like most governments in Europe, has much greater allowances for third parties and other minor parties to hold power compared to the US federal government system which mostly shuts out third parties. Secondly, Germany's mass media is probably less corporate controlled, or at least has more diversity and balance in coverage of politics than the US corporate owned media which uses either blackouts of coverage or bias and slander against any opponents of the two major parties. And is it also possible that Germany provides real, competitive public financing for national elections to minor party candidates who qualify for it? And are there possibly any effective limits on campaign financing for the major parties in Germany, unlike the legalized bribery practiced in the US for federal elections.?

An excellent point

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 14, 2021:

I have a couple friends who are way different than me on politics, and the only way we can get along is if we leave that topic off limits. One of them is a Libertarian, the other is a very centrist Dem who keeps refusing to recognize the faults and corruption of the Dem Party. But both of them agree...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2021:

@mischl I am with your more learned friends, as you say, because even tho I think a third party could possibly fix most of our problems, too many people are and will continue to be brainwashed by our corporate media, and that will not allow a third party to beat the two major parties in DC. And even if a third party could, somehow, win power and control of our government in DC thru elections, our ruling class, together with their military and cops, would never allow that government to take control. It would end up something like Chile in 1973. They would declare martial law and do a crackdown on anyone against the status quo. So, in the final analysis, I think revolution will be necessary, and the ruling class will make sure that it has to be violent. And like you, I have never had a political party on the national level that truly represented my views and had any chance or success in my lifetime of electing someone president or to congress. The Green Party is about as close as any has come in my lifetime.

These days I mostly just want someone to talk to.

Charles1971 comments on Jul 14, 2021:

I know how you feel. I live alone and work from home. My primary human contact is when I go out for groceries and to run errands. I'm introverted but it would be nice to have someone to talk to besides inanimate objects.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2021:

Your situation is pretty much what mine was for 14 months with Covid. I am so glad to be out and socializing so much more these last couple months, and yet at the same time it is sort of stressful and a big adjustment to get used to.

An excellent point

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 14, 2021:

I have a couple friends who are way different than me on politics, and the only way we can get along is if we leave that topic off limits. One of them is a Libertarian, the other is a very centrist Dem who keeps refusing to recognize the faults and corruption of the Dem Party. But both of them agree...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2021:

@mischl I am not always on the side of the ACLU, and I consider the Dem Party as equally corrupt and against the interests of peasants like us as the Repubs. But at least the Dem Party is not openly hostile towards minorities and women, and is also in favor of multiculturalism, but not much more. I hate their being so focused on identity politics and only marginally in favor of any reform regarding war and economics. But I agree with your points. The Repubs are now openly promoting fascism, while the Dems, cowardly as they are, are appearing to put up some opposition to it. I have little faith in them on it, however, as they are owned and serve the same donors as the Repubs, and that ruling class would be fine with fascism, as long as it favored them and the country stayed stable and peaceful enough for them to not have to leave and could continue to make their profits with their businesses.

This is the height of insanity at the hands of the GOP

Sticks48 comments on Jul 14, 2021:

I can hear the dueling banjos in the background.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 14, 2021:

Right on, Larry. That banjo music just makes my skin crawl and scares the bejeezus out of me..

Dating in Arizona: Here's a quote from a woman's profile: "No I haven't gotten.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 13, 2021:

I think the profile proves the woman is nuts and someone to take a hard pass on, unless you enjoy crazy with sex and think she's hot enough looking to take the risk for some casual sex. Your call.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 13, 2021:

@lerlo A wise decision, neither do I. I never knowingly date crazy or stupid, the sex is not worth it.

Fauci Says ‘It's Horrifying’ to See CPAC Crowd Cheering Low Vaccination Rates

Sticks48 comments on Jul 12, 2021:

Hopefully this problem will take care of itself, if you get my drift.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 12, 2021:

If only....

Been called that by a few here , I'm proud of it

Pralina1 comments on Jul 12, 2021:

I ll say

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 12, 2021:

Exactly! They can all fuck off and die, as far as I'm concerned.

Fauci Says ‘It's Horrifying’ to See CPAC Crowd Cheering Low Vaccination Rates

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 12, 2021:

I wish Covid would wipe out a lot of these assholes, if only it didn't hurt other innocent people in the process...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 12, 2021:

@bobwjr So in other words, they are being typical Repub hypocrites....

Gallup agrees with Pew.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 11, 2021:

Marx said it long ago, "Religion is the opiate of the masses", and in this case, esp. so for the poorer masses....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 12, 2021:

@skado I see, that makes sense. I like the original quote even better than the one I posted. It makes me think of MLK's quote about riots being the language of the unheard and oppressed....

Big tip you are wrong

JonnaBononna comments on Jul 11, 2021:

I really really hope that businesses and events will start requiring vaccines for entrance. At the very least concerts and sporting events should.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 11, 2021:

True, but in red states like mine, the governor has already ordered that such requirements are illegal, even schools requiring vaxing for kids 12 and over. I wouldn't count on those requirements being allowed in your state, which is pretty much red in most ways.

Gallup agrees with Pew.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 11, 2021:

Marx said it long ago, "Religion is the opiate of the masses", and in this case, esp. so for the poorer masses....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 11, 2021:

@skado I guess I stand corrected on the wording, thanks.

And When I Die.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 10, 2021:

This is one of my classic rock/soul tunes that I sing at karaoke, that always seems to go over big with crowds, even here in the Bible Belt of Iowa.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 11, 2021:

@David1955 Moving to get a better dating pool is easier to say than to do. Esp. when your local friends are your whole support system and you have no family to lean on for emotional support. I am stuck here.

And When I Die.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 10, 2021:

This is one of my classic rock/soul tunes that I sing at karaoke, that always seems to go over big with crowds, even here in the Bible Belt of Iowa.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 11, 2021:

@David1955 I used to attend a Meetup.com group for divorced and other single people like me (widowed), and I made the mistake of being honest about this last point when the group was discussing dating site profiles. I mentioned that I was Agnostic, unlike the rest of the group who pretty much all belonged to a Christian Singles Group as well on Meetup, and that I didn't list myself as Agnostic in my profile. I told them that I use the other label I mentioned above. Then one of the women in the group (it was almost all divorced women in the group and there was lots of misandry there, which the female leader of the group did nothing to discourage or confront. It was clear that men were merely to be tolerated in the group) asked me why I didn't list myself as Agnostic in my profile. I flatly told her that in my experience, most people in Iowa were too ignorant or prejudiced to understand and be open-minded about it. She then told me that she was very personally offended by that, and the rest of the women jumped in and bashed me on that. A couple months later, after some more friction, during which the group leader never stood up for me against the obvious misandry and general resentment towards males going on, the leader booted me out of the group by removing or blocking me from the group on Meetup. She was merely protecting her bread and butter, I suppose, since she had a business as a dating and relationship coach and was using the Meetup group to provide her clients and she also charged people for attending her monthly workshop sessions where she presented boilerplate obvious stuff about relationships and dating.

And When I Die.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 10, 2021:

This is one of my classic rock/soul tunes that I sing at karaoke, that always seems to go over big with crowds, even here in the Bible Belt of Iowa.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 11, 2021:

@David1955 I know this sounds smug and elitist, but most people in Iowa, where I live, are not smart or educated enough to get any kind of nuance or irony in things. Which is one reason on my dating profile on Batch, I don't list as Agnostic, since most people are too ignorant or prejudiced to get or understand what it means, and my compatible slice of the local dating pool is small enough, that I simply use the category of Spiritual, But Not Religious, even tho I know it's a cop-out.

South Dakota and Vermont have a lot in common.

Sticks48 comments on Jul 10, 2021:

Having spent time in both states l can honestly say it is about education and ignorance. It is not complicated.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 10, 2021:

I suspect that is why people in Vermont elect people like Bernie, because they are not as brainwashed with religion and also are smart enough to understand basic economics and support policies that actually are in their own best interests, instead of voting for the interests of people way richer than them or hoping for a pie in the sky reward after death for being an obedient peasant.

First thing, let's establish I am NOT a genius.

mischl comments on Jul 8, 2021:

Long long ago I gave up trying to "convince" anybody about the non-existence of deities. I found it to be actually counter productive. Because they try to convince me of their beliefs. Instead, I never initiate those kind of conversations. And if necessary, I respond with the lowest-key, fewest ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 8, 2021:

They sure are in Iowa...

First thing, let's establish I am NOT a genius.

xenoview comments on Jul 8, 2021:

Good luck in finding people in your area.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 8, 2021:

@xenoview Figures, and I get your point. My point is, that for me and the OP, the pickings are slim on that front, because of where we live compared to you.

First thing, let's establish I am NOT a genius.

xenoview comments on Jul 8, 2021:

Good luck in finding people in your area.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 8, 2021:

Sheesh, Timothy, you've got it really good compared to me and the OP, at least as far as dating options. There appear to be several attractive, interesting women from Agnostic living in your area, which is more than I can say for me or the OP. I didn't check on whether they are still active on this site, but my guess is most of them aren't. If so, too bad... Yup, most of them have been on here in the last month or so..

I know this is a contentious subject matter but I came across this picture on the web.

mischl comments on Jul 8, 2021:

My translation: If you're not wearing a mask because you think god will protect you, then you are stupid as a fucking rock. Stay away from me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 8, 2021:

I too have an aversion to stupid people. I am only happy when they and I stay far apart.

I’m here to find my soul mate

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 9, 2021:

Good luck on that one, Sparky. Esp. since you say "Only God can give you peace of mind" and this is a site for non-believers, lol. I predict a short stay here for you...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 7, 2021:

@Jennifer112 Have to pass on that, first, because you look young enough to be my granddaughter, lol, and secondly, because I suspect your phone number is part of a scam to charge me for a toll call. But if I'm wrong about the latter part, then I'm sure you and our more tech literate members will correct me.

Good thought

azzow2 comments on Jul 6, 2021:

He sure was a great Republican.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 6, 2021:

But nowadays, the party would crucify him or John Lindsay for being on the side of underdogs and for equality or fairness for all.

This has been a lingering thought for quite some time, and it is now being presented here.

dalefvictor comments on Jul 4, 2021:

I listened to a Podcast where the discussion was about the current manner of telling what sex, gender on is. Before this I thought I was a man who had been raised by a caring Mother and who had learned to cook, sew, clean, and do other chores. Now I have no idea what the hell I am. The good thing is...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 4, 2021:

I think you sound like a well-rounded person with good life skills, nothing wrong with any of that.

Searching for the right one is not easy I'm 34 I'm single never married before anyone comes up here ...

twill comments on Jul 4, 2021:

I got married @ 31 ....what a HUGE FUCKING MISTAKE that was. The Devil's Spawn and then to find out that Satan is a SHE, and is the county judge. DUDE ! They whacked me for about 8 years of my life. Tag Teamed. OKAY...I admit, this is all wrong of me to put BeezleBub into the same company as ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 4, 2021:

I agree that single is better than that situation and I'll gladly take your word for it on how bad it was. You sound like a Sam Kinison fan...

Hi—I’ve been close to AWOL for a few months while I focused on rekindling a relationship.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 28, 2021:

Yeah, but dogs and cats are much more loyal and reliable than most humans are in romantic relationships, so better to rely on pets.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 4, 2021:

@UUNJ Point well taken...

Searching for the right one is not easy I'm 34 I'm single never married before anyone comes up here ...

Tejas comments on Jul 4, 2021:

You have to forgive most of the people on here, age seems to make people bitter.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 4, 2021:

I mostly agree with you, that this site is mostly older folks and that many of them are bitter, but I don't think that is the reason people are being negative towards the OP's post.

Searching for the right one is not easy I'm 34 I'm single never married before anyone comes up here ...

Paracosm comments on Jul 3, 2021:

It's especially difficult when you open with giant red flags. Good luck in your search.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 4, 2021:

@Joker87 It's not a dating site, man. And as far as I know, it hasn't been for a few years now. It was originally intended to be one, but that didn't work out. And as far as I know, the site's creator quit all advertising for the site at least a year or more ago. So I don't know where you are getting your ideas about advertising saying this is a dating site, etc. I am not being rude, just giving you the truth. I have been on here since the end of 2016, unlike you. And, BTW, my life is not miserable, and it's rude of you to assume that about others just because they disagree with you and don't tell you what you want to hear. Project much?......

Sounds like something I would do

Paracosm comments on Jul 2, 2021:

Cool story but I wish managers would just start kicking the rude customers out.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 3, 2021:

I agree, but they never will, unless the customer assaults or threatens assault on someone. Unfortunately, peon employees are supposed to take all kinds of abuse because the customer is always right, allegedly, and the managers don't want to risk being badmouthed to the public by a customer. Too bad business owners, managers, and corporate America don't realize that some customers ARE worth losing.... My guess is that managers will never kick a customer out for bad behavior unless they direct it towards the manager themself, or another customer, then they might give them the boot.

Stole this from a friend.

itsmedammit comments on Jul 3, 2021:

Addiction is complicated and dealing with an addict is so exhausting. I've had to deal with a few in my life, along with some who also suffered other mental illness. Difficult to watch ones life being given over to the control of some substance. Quite crazy really. But of course there is ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 3, 2021:

I think a recent movie said it well, "You can only save yourself, you can't save someone else on your own (from addiction), and even then, they have to want to save themselves.".

I'm 34 single never married don't have children and I'm looking for a woman that will accept me for ...

Cyklone comments on Jul 1, 2021:

Despite the advertising, this is not a dating site. The only woman on here who does date gives us all a detailed analysis afterwards, but go for it, we all need more laughs 🤣🤣🤣

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 2, 2021:

In truth, there are probably more women from here that date than just her, and I have a good idea who you're referring to, but she is the only one who always posts a detailed analysis of her dates afterwards. But your point is well taken.

A major burn , tough

silverotter11 comments on Jul 1, 2021:

Is melania always scowling or do the photographers only shooting her when she scowls? I don't remember many photos of her where she looks happy.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 1, 2021:

I can't imagine any mentally healthy woman with an IQ above room temp that would be happy about being married to Trump, but then, I could be wrong about Melania...

Fundie Family Member: If you are an atheist you will burn in hell for all eternity.

HelenRoseBuck comments on Jun 30, 2021:

Funny but sad that there are so many willingly being duped into a life of waiting to die. They will, of course, die. But what awaits them when they die? The final scene in the Sopranos series is what I assume happens when one dies. Nothing. It’s a blank screen and you aren’t even conscious ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 30, 2021:

That's exactly what my father, a lifelong Catholic, experienced when he cardiac-arrested for a couple minutes many years ago. He said it was just all black. After that, he continued to attend church sometimes, but admitted that he no longer believed in any afterlife.

Somewhere South of France - YouTube

Barnie2years comments on Jun 27, 2021:

Ike give her a hug! I’d give you a hug! I only have my dog to hug.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 29, 2021:

@TheoryNumber3 When cats put their two paws around your finger or lick your nose, that's the same as a hug, from cats.

I met someone on Match a month ago We have started spending weekends together and sometimes see ...

sassygirl3869 comments on Jun 9, 2021:

The great romance that was a platonic friendship. Ended in March of 2021 due to Bob's parkinsons disease pushing me away. Met Larry on Plenty of Fish in May 2021 - going slow despite flowers and champagne. ~~~~

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 29, 2021:

I think it's always best at our age to go slow on new relationships. I think most of us aren't as resilient with loss or disappointment as we were when we were younger.

Structural engineer warned of problems before the collapse

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 27, 2021:

One reason I live in a three story building in a state where earthquakes are unknown.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 28, 2021:

@NoMagicCookie That sounds like a very scary nightmare to live with, the fear that it might occur again.

Structural engineer warned of problems before the collapse

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 27, 2021:

One reason I live in a three story building in a state where earthquakes are unknown.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 27, 2021:

@NoMagicCookie Same here, tornadoes and floods are the only things to worry about here, as far as natural disasters. Since I live far away from any rivers, I only have to worry about tornadoes.

Please let it be on the tile..,...

glennlab comments on Jun 26, 2021:

your slippers and you know it

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 27, 2021:

@MichelleGar1 Such polite kitties...

Structural engineer warned of problems before the collapse

JonnaBononna comments on Jun 26, 2021:

Similar to the construction collapse of the Hard Rock Hotel in New Orleans in October 2019- it was reported by several workers that it seemed to be sagging, but things went on until it collapsed. There were three workers killed, and two of the bodies remained in the structure for ten months, until ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 27, 2021:

Gotta love American capitalism. Profit and money over people and human lives every time. Some people just need to learn to get with the program. (sarcasm ended)...

What are your dealbreakers?

Apunzelle comments on Jun 25, 2021:

All the above … plus racist, boring, or bald. I’m trying to work on changing the last one but haven’t succeeded yet.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 25, 2021:

@Sgt_Spanky Tell me about it. I noticed a long time ago how much less attraction women who just met me seemed to have once I got older, became bald, and no longer had an athletic body. It goes both ways.

What are your dealbreakers?

lerlo comments on Jun 25, 2021:

God, guns, motorcycles, trump, and cats

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 25, 2021:

@lerlo I think what you say is true with many women, but certainly not all. So yes, there is a lot of false modesty and dishonesty from some women about whether they want to hear compliments about their looks before they get to know the guy more. So, I have learned since the example I cited for you in my experience and I treat all women the same in online dating since then. I know my place in the pecking order and the game of online dating as an average looking man and simply don't comment on a woman's looks until either she brings it up in messaging or until I have already jumped thru all the hoops and passed all the tests of earning the right to finally meet her in person, at which time I tell her her she looks nice or great and compliment her appropriately on her outfit. As you say, doing anything else as an average looking man, interacting with an average or above average looking woman, will only be held against you if it comes before the in person meeting and will only aid your better looking competition.

What are your dealbreakers?

lerlo comments on Jun 25, 2021:

God, guns, motorcycles, trump, and cats

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 25, 2021:

@lerlo I am aware of that. Dealing with women in online dating does often involve navigating a narrow and ambiguous line of communication, often even having to speak in code about your intentions and your impressions of them. I have been, for example, blown off by a woman simply for mentioning how nice her lips looked in her photos and how much I enjoy kissing. She felt that was inappropriate for a first message, but she likely would have rejected me anyway for not being on her level of looks. She breadcrumbed me by replying to my messages with long gaps, but never giving me a straight answer on whether she was interested in getting to know me or not, making excuses for why she was taking so long to reply, etc. Just another example of a good looking woman knowing her value in the dating game and using it to play games with a man who is interested in dating her.

What are your dealbreakers?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 25, 2021:

This topic has been posted before, I really have nothing to add to what has been listed or repeat my previously posted list except, someone who loves country music and has no intellect or is anti-intellectual.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 25, 2021:

@Sgt_Spanky I was not being critical of you bringing up an old topic, but you are entitled to your sarcastic response. I was not trying to provoke that.

What are your dealbreakers?

lerlo comments on Jun 25, 2021:

God, guns, motorcycles, trump, and cats

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 25, 2021:

@lerlo Quite understandable and appropriate for you to avoid cat lovers and their cats. I run into the same sort of problem with most women in my local dating pool, as I have allergies, as do you, only mine are to outdoor seasonal pollens. Most women in my dating pool are outdoors people that will not date a man who won't join them outdoors most of the time in the warmer months of the year, so I lose out on dating any of them.

What are your dealbreakers?

deepeddy comments on Jun 25, 2021:

Do people have different deal breakers for Mr/Ms Right than they do for Mr/Ms Right Now? I have a long list for someone who I’d expect to spend my life with but coming out of a 25 year relationship, the standards are different for someone to re-explore the single world with.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 25, 2021:

I agree. When we are newly single, most of us, and probably men more than women, are not as choosy about who we date compared to those who have been on their own a long time.

What are your dealbreakers?

lerlo comments on Jun 25, 2021:

God, guns, motorcycles, trump, and cats

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 25, 2021:

Wait a second, I resemble the last part of your remark. I love cats and have found that most cat lovers are good people.

What are your dealbreakers?

Apunzelle comments on Jun 25, 2021:

All the above … plus racist, boring, or bald. I’m trying to work on changing the last one but haven’t succeeded yet.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 25, 2021:

At least you admit it about not wanting to date bald men. I think about 40% or more of women share your attitude, which is fine with me, we all have our preferences about appearance and looks. It also pisses me off that Match got rid of listing a member's preferences of what they were looking for in a dating partner. In the past you could see on a profile what they were looking for in race, hair color, including baldness, income level, whether they had kids, etc. Now you just have to guess what their preferences are and waste your time messaging people who already know they aren't interested in you. I guess dating sites thought all that preference stuff was too non-PC or maybe they got rid of it because it was too much work for their IT staff to deal with it. I notice you are way younger than me. By the time you get to my age, over half the men in your dating pool at that age will be bald, so keep working on your attitude, lol. Because, trust me, most of the men in that age range will also mostly be unwilling to date someone their age or a woman who is at all overweight. Unlike most men in my age group, I don't mind dating women my age, as well as women several years older or younger than me, as well as women who are somewhat overweight. It gets pretty brutal for women and men at the older ages in the dating game.

Love to spend time by myself letting my mind paint the pictures and making up the voices

SnowyOwl comments on Jun 24, 2021:

I think that the late, great Bill Hicks put it very succinctly - when we as a people stop reading and just turn on the Tube - we give up so much of what life is worth living for. We give up imagination, we give up freedom of thought and opinion, we give up critical thinking and appreciation of how ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 24, 2021:

Makes sense to me. I also enjoy reading because it helps me focus and center myself, same as meditation works for other people, while for me meditation is boring and makes me sleepy. Along with the dated pastime of reading, I also refuse to buy a smartphone and fall into the seduction of younger folks, along with some Boomers like myself, of wanting to be connected all waking hours to social media and the outside world. I prefer instead, to be consciously choosing what I listen to and who I attend to in connecting with others. For the life of me, I still can't understand those who bring a smartphone to a meeting with someone at a restaurant or coffee shop, or getting together to sing karaoke, all because they either get bored with actual face to face conversation or are afraid to miss out on something more interesting even after they have supposedly committed their time and presence to those they are meeting. I choose to live a life where those I choose as friends and who choose me show up for engagements and commit to attending to and listening to me and vice verso. If that isn't good enough for them, then we shouldn't be friends and getting together isn't worth it for them or me. Cellphones are fine for emergencies like when the car breaks down or when you're away from home and need to make a call, or when you're running late or checking on why someone else is running late, but beyond that, I don't see a purpose, except to act like you're more important than those you're with or to selfishly seek to not miss out on something better than your present company. So I use a simple tracphone when I am away from home or in my car, and it meets my needs just fine. If I want to connect to the internet, it can always wait until I get home and use my laptop. If I need directions somewhere, I can look it up and write it out from home before I go. If I need them after I leave home, I can ask someone how to get somewhere in that town. People survived just fine doing these things before smartphones, but what hasn't survived is face to face conversation and emotional connection between people. Same with attention span.

I spent 32 years learning the lesson

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 24, 2021:

That's a long time to waste on someone, about a half or a third of a lifetime.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 24, 2021:

@glennlab In that case, I guess it might have been worth it.

I spent 32 years learning the lesson

TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 24, 2021:

That's a long time to waste on someone, about a half or a third of a lifetime.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 24, 2021:

@glennlab I get it, but life is short enough as it is to spend that much time on one lesson with one person.

He who feeds a hungry animal ...

Vipyr82 comments on Jun 23, 2021:

My cat is constantly hungry no matter how many times I feed him. Doesn’t matter if it’s the food from my dinner or the kibble from the dog bowl he nonchalantly steals.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 23, 2021:

A case of feline eating disorder, lol?

"None of these things are happening in any other developed nation.

WayneDalton comments on Jun 22, 2021:

As far as I am concerned, they are complicit,and are responsible as well

TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 23, 2021:

@rainmanjr That's a piss poor low bar to settle for. I refuse to do so.