I've been wondering for a while if most of us on Agnostic are mostly estranged from our families of ...

CuriosityExtant comments on Jul 19, 2019:

I am enjoying this particular post and comments swirl immensely.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

Thanks for all the feedback, I tried to have options covering all the usual interpersonal reasons for estrangement. Geo reasons were really not the point of the exercise...

My OKCupid matches. Hilariously inept photos.

Sierra4 comments on Jul 18, 2019:

A woman's 6 profile pictures on Match; 1. Head shot with adult daughter 2. Picture of a beautiful backyard 3. Picture of artwork in the house 4. Picture of plants in the house 5. Pictures of two young grandkids 6. Pictures of two small dogs. Many profiles like this. :)

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

@CarolinaGirl60 No it aint't glad you've been luckier than me with it. You are a better person and deserve it more in the karmic scheme of things.....

New Jersey judge who showed leniency to rape suspect from "good family" resigns

FatherOfNyx comments on Jul 18, 2019:

He should be given the time in prison that he didn't give to the rapist.. I'd be all for a committee that overlooks rulings and if they deem the judge was driven by personal bias, throw their asses in jail.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

Those would both be fair outcomes in my book.

New Jersey judge who showed leniency to rape suspect from "good family" resigns

1of5 comments on Jul 18, 2019:

My question to the judge would be: How can a good family fail to teach their children not to rape someone?

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

@1of5 In my book and that of Jesus himself, for that matter, there was never anything inherently righteous about the rich. What there is about most of them is a smug arrogance of knowing they are above the law for the most part and, at least in America, being rich will buy you respect and admiration from a lot of people no matter how much you are garbage wrapped in skin.....

How many of you feel as if your lack of any sort of religious or spiritual belief system has ...

1of5 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

My desire to never have kids impacted my dating/love life far more than being athiest ever did.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

@1of5 Thanks for understanding...

This always made sense to me: “Being a Humanist means trying to behave decently without ...

Stevil comments on Jul 19, 2019:

You sure it wasn't Kilgore Trout that said that??

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

Kilgore Trout rocked!! Venus On The Half Shell had me laughing out loud at much of it.

My OKCupid matches. Hilariously inept photos.

LiterateHiker comments on Jul 18, 2019:

On Fitness Singles, a non-smoker has a pic with a cigarette hanging on his lip. **Every picture** tells a story, whether intended or not.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

@Sierra4 I've had that happen to me too on paid dating sites like Match. Sometimes these women were even attractive looking, but when they said clueless stuff like that which showed they had no idea of the things in my profile, I knew they either had to be a scammer or an airhead, and, either way I was not interested......

My OKCupid matches. Hilariously inept photos.

Charles7600 comments on Jul 18, 2019:

Online dating is it's own special hell. For being early 30's, in great shape with an amazing job, paid off car and a house, I don't know what I am doing wrong.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

@Charles7600 You're exactly right Agnostic.com has been called the FB for thinking, non-believing adults and that's what it is.

My OKCupid matches. Hilariously inept photos.

Sierra4 comments on Jul 18, 2019:

A woman's 6 profile pictures on Match; 1. Head shot with adult daughter 2. Picture of a beautiful backyard 3. Picture of artwork in the house 4. Picture of plants in the house 5. Pictures of two young grandkids 6. Pictures of two small dogs. Many profiles like this. :)

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

@CarolinaGirl60 Point taken Beth. You know I like you and think you are good folks. I did not mean any insult or disrespect for your faultless health issues. I can relate and have a couple of my own. I agree also that most people of either gender do not want to buy into an LTR with someone who has health issues, even at our age. Glad you found a rare and interested man.

1. How many are on this site looking for a companion?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 19, 2019:

I came here looking for women to date and quickly learned that is useless for my age group and area. As someone else said, the pickings of compatible women in my area on here is even thinner than on Match, where I've been for two years and will stay with besides here. There are a good number of ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

@LimitedLight Thanks, I do feel that if this site had the numbers spread evenly across the US and UK enough to provide real dating options on a par with Match and such, I think that it could not only draw a lot of ad money for the site owner, but that many members here, including me, would be willing to put up with the ads and even a small membership fee per month, AS LONG AS the forums remained available and the community remained large and interesting. The rubs are two things, would the increased ad spending pay off later in the ad revenue and the membership fees AND would those income sources be enough to fund the inevitable amount of paid staff time that would be needed to police the forums? And that last one is probably the main challenge for the admin.. How do you police a site with forums and on the one hand, nurture community and fellowship of non-believers and also moderate with suspensions and bannings of members who are paying a fee to be here? That is above my intellect and pay grade, probably why, to my knowledge, none of the paid conventional dating sites have forums for the site members. Did somebody say once that POF does have one?

1. How many are on this site looking for a companion?

MichelleGar1 comments on Jul 19, 2019:

I met my boyfriend on this site! We've been together for about 5 months and still have time to decide whether to move here with me or I move in with him. I'm going on my third visit to see him, the time before he came here. See what happens.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

@MichelleGar1 I am really happy that you found someone and I really hope it works out. I also know, as do my friends and my therapist, that I am too emotionally tired and wore out to try handling the challenges emotionally and energy-wise of LD dating or moving away with my friends all back here and risking that it doesn't work out and then moving back here. I have had too many losses and defeats in this decade and cannot take any more major ones, at least not for a while. Any mental health person will tell you that moving, esp. to a new area, is the second most major stressor next to losing a loved one to death or maybe divorce.

1. How many are on this site looking for a companion?

MichelleGar1 comments on Jul 19, 2019:

I met my boyfriend on this site! We've been together for about 5 months and still have time to decide whether to move here with me or I move in with him. I'm going on my third visit to see him, the time before he came here. See what happens.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

@MichelleGar1 I'm always up for taking the chance locally. But dating LD and making a cross country move, nope.....

1. How many are on this site looking for a companion?

daylily comments on Jul 19, 2019:

I can't really move. I already moved away from someone I loved deeply to be where I am, which is close to my granddaughters. (Sadly, being closer to my daughter is falling short of my hopes, but not my expectations..) It does sadden me though, that I am alone and somewhat isolated. Having come from ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

I can totally relate. I had a long, great marriage, at least until she got dementia, but I too am starting to feel that at my age living in a terrible dating pool area, that I may never get the chance again for a relationship like I had. and it sucks, feels so unfair. But I won't date LD either or move, so many on this site will say it's my fault, etc..

1. How many are on this site looking for a companion?

MichelleGar1 comments on Jul 19, 2019:

I met my boyfriend on this site! We've been together for about 5 months and still have time to decide whether to move here with me or I move in with him. I'm going on my third visit to see him, the time before he came here. See what happens.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

That's the thing. If it does work out, it's inevitable that someone has to move and, living where I live, the only way someone will ever move to my area of Iowa is if they already live in a hellhole of the US worse than Iowa, like the South, which a few women my age do, but those same women also have better weather than I do, so they are still likely to not want to move because besides weather most of them have family or kids nearby that they are staying there for. And I am not up to taking the risk of moving, being disappointed, having to move back, and start over.

Off to Stainsby Folk Festival for the weekend.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 19, 2019:

Sounds fun. I like folk music too. Where the hell is Stainsby?

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

@ShadowAmicus I'll settle for watching The Open this weekend for my Brit fix.

1. How many are on this site looking for a companion?

Ms_McSteven comments on Jul 18, 2019:

Word spread through my job today that our 75 year old widowed dispatcher has a new boyfriend, so there's hope for everyone who wants companionship, age be damned. I might be the last unattached person in the company now. I dread the harassment I'm about to get from the busybodies and wannabe ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

@Ms_McSteven Yup, just like my old job, a regular Peyton Place...

1. How many are on this site looking for a companion?

Ms_McSteven comments on Jul 18, 2019:

Word spread through my job today that our 75 year old widowed dispatcher has a new boyfriend, so there's hope for everyone who wants companionship, age be damned. I might be the last unattached person in the company now. I dread the harassment I'm about to get from the busybodies and wannabe ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

My Durham bus center I used to work at had a lot of older folks working there. Two of them actually met there and got married. Some of the younger ones began dating each other too. Made it interesting. There was always quite a gossip network there, often with false rumors about the company or people's personal lives.

Off to Stainsby Folk Festival for the weekend.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 19, 2019:

Sounds fun. I like folk music too. Where the hell is Stainsby?

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

@ShadowAmicus I'll have to pass...

I wish to share a piece I wrote some time ago to describe my relationship with my second wife, Pat:...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 19, 2019:

Resonates with me too and reminds me of my marriage to my late wife. I hope I get to experience something like that again, but if not I am grateful for what we had before she got dementia. It's more than lots of divorced couples ever get to experience.How long ago did she die?

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

@Heathenman Thanks, I've finished grieving two years ago. The healing won't ever happen until I find another relationship, as far as I can tell.

1. How many are on this site looking for a companion?

brainyactress comments on Jul 19, 2019:

I don’t look for it but I’m open to it. It’s happened twice. By and large, I only date local but I live in a major city so it’s easier to find bc the pool is larger.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

I envy your dating pool. It's not only larger, but it's probably way more hip and progressive in it's culture and lifestyle of most singles there compared to Des Moines Iowa. Someone like you or me probably has way more compatible people to choose from there whether it's on here or a paid site like Match. It's not that Des Moines is really that boring or backward, it's that non-believing hipsters, at least in my age group, are a very small, marginal group because for so long DM WAS really backward and boring. So most of the hipsters and non-believers there are fairly young, new transplants. The ones like that my age are pretty much all taken and the rest of my age group that are not hipsters or non-believers are legion, namely all the folks who grew up on the farm or at least in a rural part of Iowa before moving to the big city and are still clinging, as Obama would put it, to their traditional family values, family-oriented social life, Christian religion, and love of country music. All of which I reject, as do most of the other members of this site.

1. How many are on this site looking for a companion?

Charles7600 comments on Jul 18, 2019:

Eh, I'm looking, but not particularly hard. My last relationship was enough of a trainwreck to justify some introspection. l could pack up and move across the globe, but I don't really want to. I have the skills to make excellent money anywhere, but job hunting is never fun. Plus, my house is ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

My last relationship, my one LTR in my life was a great 21 yr. relationship with a marriage and no kids, that was great and happy, at least until she got dementia in 2011. So I have been understandably looking hard to find someone after finishing my grieving about two years ago.

1. How many are on this site looking for a companion?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 19, 2019:

I came here looking for women to date and quickly learned that is useless for my age group and area. As someone else said, the pickings of compatible women in my area on here is even thinner than on Match, where I've been for two years and will stay with besides here. There are a good number of ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

@LimitedLight You mean the ads for Agnostic on FB? I dunno, but that explains why the site growth seems to have really slowed compared to back then a couple years ago when I joined. Maybe the admin. didn't have the $ to continue the ads or didn't feel like it. But it's obvious to me that, since then, depending on word of mouth is not going to cut it as far as the site appreciably growing much in the future. In my local area, it hasn't grown at all in the last two years. Maybe the FB ads were an experiment by the admin. to see if the site had dating potential and when the results were not encouraging enough to justify further investment towards making this a real dating site, he gave up and quit advertising. I can only speculate....

This always made sense to me: “Being a Humanist means trying to behave decently without ...

FynTul comments on Jul 19, 2019:

Think we call that "selfless" now :) But yeah Vonnegut had a strong flashlight in his mind. Too bad his mind was a dump.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

Have to disagree. Yes, he was depressed, but he was very funny and brilliant.

This always made sense to me: “Being a Humanist means trying to behave decently without ...

JackPedigo comments on Jul 18, 2019:

There should also be no expectations of reward while you are alive. Too many 'humanists' do things because it makes them feel good and doesn't upset their cognitive dissonance. One thing we often forget about being human is that we have a sense of reason and really need to use it more than we do.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

I don't expect any rewards from others while I'm alive and so far I sure haven't gotten any. The reason I do good things is because it seems the right things to do and I get satisfaction from it. I really don't give a fuck if others approve or not..

This always made sense to me: “Being a Humanist means trying to behave decently without ...

callmedubious comments on Jul 18, 2019:

Kurt was pretty well convinced that america was a totally Fcked country with no hope for redemption by the time he died. ``Slaughterhouse 5`` should be required reading in HS but i doubt if it is & i doubt if many americans are even aware of it.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 19, 2019:

I already agree with him on that, but with each year I agree more.

My OKCupid matches. Hilariously inept photos.

Sierra4 comments on Jul 18, 2019:

A woman's 6 profile pictures on Match; 1. Head shot with adult daughter 2. Picture of a beautiful backyard 3. Picture of artwork in the house 4. Picture of plants in the house 5. Pictures of two young grandkids 6. Pictures of two small dogs. Many profiles like this. :)

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@LiterateHiker PM it is.

My OKCupid matches. Hilariously inept photos.

Sierra4 comments on Jul 18, 2019:

A woman's 6 profile pictures on Match; 1. Head shot with adult daughter 2. Picture of a beautiful backyard 3. Picture of artwork in the house 4. Picture of plants in the house 5. Pictures of two young grandkids 6. Pictures of two small dogs. Many profiles like this. :)

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@LiterateHiker You are proving my point I made above about closed mouth photos of men, and women, for that matter. The guy may also not be smiling because he is the angry, abusive type as well.

My OKCupid matches. Hilariously inept photos.

Sierra4 comments on Jul 18, 2019:

A woman's 6 profile pictures on Match; 1. Head shot with adult daughter 2. Picture of a beautiful backyard 3. Picture of artwork in the house 4. Picture of plants in the house 5. Pictures of two young grandkids 6. Pictures of two small dogs. Many profiles like this. :)

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@LiterateHiker With a well-known, at least on Agnostic, flamethrower of blunt truth like me, LH, be careful what you ask for, lol. Ok will take a peek and post it here or PM you? Your choice....

Wanted to gather advice on the following dilemma: I have a problem with men and their facial hair...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 18, 2019:

I've never really liked the way I look with facial hair, so I've almost never kept it on me. I have been clean shaven in my photos and most of the time I go out socially but it doesn't seem to help on dating sites for me. You appear to be a small minority of women in the dating scene, just like me. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@NoMagicCookie The ear plugs are very smart. Wish I had worn them to concerts when I was younger so I might have more of my hi- freq hearing left...

My OKCupid matches. Hilariously inept photos.

Sierra4 comments on Jul 18, 2019:

A woman's 6 profile pictures on Match; 1. Head shot with adult daughter 2. Picture of a beautiful backyard 3. Picture of artwork in the house 4. Picture of plants in the house 5. Pictures of two young grandkids 6. Pictures of two small dogs. Many profiles like this. :)

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@Ms_McSteven We'll just have to respectfully disagree here. Maybe my view will doom me to being alone, maybe not. But I can only speak for me in saying that in my 60 years of life and 22 years so far of trying to date, that I have never met someone whose looks grew on me from no physical attraction to wanting to have sex with them. The reason doesn't really matter and is probably unknown to me as it is to most people wired that way. But what matters is being honest with myself and the women I encounter in the dating game. Beginning with a girl I dated in high school and ever since, I have been a very sensitive male who really hates it when I meet someone and hope that their looks will grow on me or that I will be attracted to them later and it doesn't happen. It really sucks to meet someone, really like them platonically and then have to make the speech to them that it's strictly going to be friendzone when one or both were hoping for more. It sucks to be on either end of the friendzone in my experience after meeting someone in a dating context or situation. Trust me, most people I have met would rather be rejected before meeting from a dating site than meet in person and immediately see that the other person has already put you in the friendzone for good based on your looks. When that happens, both men and women can immediately tell, trust me on that one. I am too old and tired to keep replaying that game when it can be avoided.

Wanted to gather advice on the following dilemma: I have a problem with men and their facial hair...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 18, 2019:

I've never really liked the way I look with facial hair, so I've almost never kept it on me. I have been clean shaven in my photos and most of the time I go out socially but it doesn't seem to help on dating sites for me. You appear to be a small minority of women in the dating scene, just like me. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@fmcamyg I see it all the time with other bald men. It's almost laughably predictable among the younger ones. First they start with wearing ballcaps after they recognize their hair loss, then they move on to growing the facial hair. To me it's blatantly trying to hide or at least distract, with the facial hair, from their baldness. Most women are not only not fooled, but often not favorably impressed. But what do I know, I have embraced my baldness, but had no interest on Match since Feb.?

My OKCupid matches. Hilariously inept photos.

Sierra4 comments on Jul 18, 2019:

A woman's 6 profile pictures on Match; 1. Head shot with adult daughter 2. Picture of a beautiful backyard 3. Picture of artwork in the house 4. Picture of plants in the house 5. Pictures of two young grandkids 6. Pictures of two small dogs. Many profiles like this. :)

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@Ms_McSteven You may think my viewpoint is sad and you are entitled to your opinion, but I'm pretty well convinced it's the view of almost all men on dating sites and even most women, even tho some of them, not you, are not willing to admit it for fear of looking shallow. That is why dating coaches recommend one full body shot close enough to see body type as well as at least one close up head shot. And this is from female coaches, BTW, It now appears that these two type of pics are now part of the norm on more and more women's profiles, I can't speak to what men are showing, but I'm guessing it's including lots of guys with shirtless photos showing off their muscles and abs, which some women would really be impressed by, maybe not you, but it probably for most of them gets their messages answered, unlike me...Just like any woman, I am entitled to write off anybody for any reason, women sure as hell do in my experience with online dating. And to me, someone seeming to hide something, whether they are or not, seems like a good one and is often a valid red flag. I have heard plenty of women saying the same thing about men wearing ballcaps to probably hide baldness, for example, as well as men who lacked full body shots. As Sticks says ad nauseum, it goes both ways and I will not be labelled sexist or misogynist, not that you were doing that, for being honest. I don't let my opinions be criticized without standing up for them. I can't count the number of women who say they write off all guys who don't smile in any of their pics on the assumption the guy is a negative jerk, is hiding missing or bad teeth, etc. Are they wrong and sad?

Wanted to gather advice on the following dilemma: I have a problem with men and their facial hair...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 18, 2019:

I've never really liked the way I look with facial hair, so I've almost never kept it on me. I have been clean shaven in my photos and most of the time I go out socially but it doesn't seem to help on dating sites for me. You appear to be a small minority of women in the dating scene, just like me. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@Jnei Based on my recent experience with the online dating scene, it seems to me like a man's money is still important to most women in who they select to date. My evidence is that I don't dress up in my pics nor do I much at all in my real life. So I appear to be someone who is not that financially secure, even tho I am. Since Match eliminated a few checklist traits from their profiles back in Feb., there is no longer any info in the profile about someone's income level, both theirs and who they are seeking. Whether related to that or not, I have had no new interest on Match since Feb.. So now the only ways someone will know your financial status is how you dress in the pics, if you appear in the pics to be taking expensive vacations, or if you say something specific about your finances in your profile essay, which I bet some men have already started doing, tho I have no way of knowing that. As for wanting to look older, not for me. I want to use this baby face as long as I can to interest women who are as much as several years younger in dating me as well as to compensate for my baldness making me look older. Ladies, have you been seeing men on Match making statements about their income level or net worth on Match lately?

New Jersey judge who showed leniency to rape suspect from "good family" resigns

1of5 comments on Jul 18, 2019:

My question to the judge would be: How can a good family fail to teach their children not to rape someone?

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@1of5 He knows now, but it sucks that someone that classist was allowed such unquestioned power for so long. Classism is the last acceptable form of prejudice and bias in America and that disgusts me. It's frustrating as an American socialist to know how ignorant or accepting most Americans are about it, unlike Europeans, who are very aware of, open about class and mostly in favor of equality. Of course, unlike most Europeans, Americans still believe the myth of upward mobility and accept classism in the belief they will make it big some day and join the club of the rich. Europeans know better and that's why they support socialism and equality. More Americans are starting to wake up and see how they are being conned and kept poor by the system. That's why last time Sanders and Trump were the only two candidates that excited people, because they addressed this discontent with the system.

My OKCupid matches. Hilariously inept photos.

Charles7600 comments on Jul 18, 2019:

Online dating is it's own special hell. For being early 30's, in great shape with an amazing job, paid off car and a house, I don't know what I am doing wrong.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

It's not you at all and you're not doing anything wrong. If you are not at least a 7 in looks, and that means all of it, face, body, how you dress, hair, you are going to get ignored by most women on paid dating sites in favor of the 7s, 8s and 9s. I have no answers, as anyone on here who reads my comments knows that we are in the same boat even tho I am your father's age and have a good relationship track record as a widower, am average looking, and financially secure. Those things without good looks seem to impress no one. Looked at your profile and, to be blunt, the only things I can see going against you with the shallow world of online dating, is that you have an average face, even with a nice full head of hair, and are not tall, which is another thing most women want, which I have, along with an average body.

Date Bar Burnout

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 18, 2019:

Make whatever you want. They should just be grateful to have any treats that taste better than cardboard, but then again, my standards are low when it comes to free food.....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@LiterateHiker The first treat sounds hideous. I wouldn't have touched it either, and the chocolate candies would have only taken a couple.

How many of you feel as if your lack of any sort of religious or spiritual belief system has ...

1of5 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

My desire to never have kids impacted my dating/love life far more than being athiest ever did.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@1of5 It's much the same as being surrounded by Christians, rednecks, and rubes/hicks, I've lived in Iowa my whole life and it's all I've ever known. I have seen the ocean plenty, east and west, and I understand its allure, but I don't need to live around it. When you have a long term partner and it's working, you don't really notice or care as much what kind of people you are living around. It's you and your partner against the world, with of course, a little help from your friends. That's why finding someone else is important for me to ever be happy again living here in Iowa. Being a fish out of water is fine with a partner, without, even with friends, it becomes unbearable when one is older and mortality is knocking on the door...

Finally hit 9.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 17, 2019:

The way it's going, I will have the level 8 shirt long before I ever meet anyone from here to date in person from my local area.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@Our_existence Sorry, won't date LD, for reasons I won't repeat here, but have spelled out repeatedly on these boards...

The world is fucked up beyond salvation.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 17, 2019:

I've done that too, but I will only spend my time doing it with people that are legitimately pissed off by an asshole, not someone who appears to be entitled and privileged while acting like an asshole because they sense someone inferior has failed to honor their privilege. In other words, indulge ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@mischl The have their money to comfort them and can always buy friends. I won't waste my time on them.

Ex wife has been with two different people in two weeks, a month after the divorce was finalized.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 17, 2019:

With all due respect, why do you care? I am guessing she dumped you, but even if she didn't, you don't need to further concern yourself with her unless you share minor children with her. And even then, her love life is still really not your business unless it affects said kids.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@Veteran229 Good points. But this guy seems to really want to find a woman young enough to make babies with him so he can leave his mark on the world, so to speak. Not my kind of choice, but what he wants, so he needs someone young enough and willing to do that. That pretty much leaves out widows, too old for that and he doesn't want to date that much older, I assume. As a widower who did make the right choice for my one happy, successful LTR, I can't tell you how frustrating it is to be stuck with a dating pool that is about 75% divorcees who are bitter, probably not the most mentally healthy women to pick from, but they're mostly what I have to work with because I am still too young to date most of the widows out there, who are usually in their 70s, tho I will date up to age 68. Also, the divorced women will often indicate in their profiles that they are not interested in dating widowed men, a self-defeating attitude if there ever was one, on the assumptions that all widowers are not over their dead spouse and that no woman can ever compete with the dead spouse in that man's mind and heart. How ignorant and blindly selfish can they be? Most widowed men, at least this one, don't see a new woman as a competitor, they just want someone kind, attractive, and fun to be with, not a clone of the dead spouse, who they are not trying to replace, they just want someone compatible to share their life with again.

My OKCupid matches. Hilariously inept photos.

Sierra4 comments on Jul 18, 2019:

A woman's 6 profile pictures on Match; 1. Head shot with adult daughter 2. Picture of a beautiful backyard 3. Picture of artwork in the house 4. Picture of plants in the house 5. Pictures of two young grandkids 6. Pictures of two small dogs. Many profiles like this. :)

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

Boy is that the fucking truth! It really goes both ways, LH. Here in Iowa, I can't count the number of profiles that have the woman with their adult kids or grandkids. I skip over those profiles immediately because it's obvious the woman is very family-oriented, unlike me. In my area, having kids, adult and grandkids is so common and seemingly required, that it's like a lapel pin with an American flag after 9-11 on a politician, totally gratuitous, but seemingly required for show. I have heard that you are never supposed to have kids in profile pics, for privacy purposes, but it sure doesn't stop all the farmer's daughter types in Iowa. Also, there are countless pics of women too far away to see their face or body type, as well as countless profiles of women with no full body shot, undoubtedly overweight women trying to hide being fat and thinking guys are stupid enough to not see thru that. Next.... Lastly, as you say, women in group photos where you really can't tell, based on the other photos, which one they are and or course there is no caption there to help you. I've also seen plenty of profiles where the woman never smiles in her pics. Leaves me to wonder what they are likely hiding. Missing or bad teeth? Or, as my younger gal pals put it, is she just showing her "resting bitch face"? Their words, not mine....The bottom line is, the photo is there to move us past the days of blind dating. Use it intelligently and honestly. We aren't expecting pro studio pics, just honest photos that show us the goods, so to speak, because both men and women these days are very visual and put a lot of stock in pics for who they will message and meet, all other things being equal.

Ex wife has been with two different people in two weeks, a month after the divorce was finalized.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 17, 2019:

With all due respect, why do you care? I am guessing she dumped you, but even if she didn't, you don't need to further concern yourself with her unless you share minor children with her. And even then, her love life is still really not your business unless it affects said kids.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@Giomar Get out there and start meeting women. You're not too old to have kids with someone, altho your chances are better with someone several years younger than you than your own age. Please tell me you're not one of those men who is obsessed with only dating women without kids so you can start over making babies for her first time rather than being ok with being a stepdad. Odds are if you date women your age or not much younger than you, they will already have at least one kid. Are you ok with being a stepdad in a blended family? Because if you want to be a dad with some woman, that is likely unavoidable. I was exactly your age when I gratefully met my late wife after decades of unsuccessful dating where I had no serious relationships because I wanted a childfree relationship and here in family-oriented Iowa, no women were interested in buying into that. In your state, I assume the culture is the same way regarding kids and family.

If blonds have more fun and redheads are fire in the bed.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 17, 2019:

I'd settle for romance and sex with any women who have attractive bodies and faces, regardless of hair. Hair is so trivial on women for me, even tho hair on men is so important to many if not most women in the dating game.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 18, 2019:

@IrishTxJudy I have been shaving my head for the last few years. You can't tell only because the pics are not close up and focused on the top of my head, for obvious reasons....

If blonds have more fun and redheads are fire in the bed.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 17, 2019:

I'd settle for romance and sex with any women who have attractive bodies and faces, regardless of hair. Hair is so trivial on women for me, even tho hair on men is so important to many if not most women in the dating game.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@azzow2 That's 3 that are still alive, a tiny fraction of all the popular actors out there. I think we have our answer. Jason Strathan or something like that, a Brit is the other one I could think of.

If blonds have more fun and redheads are fire in the bed.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 17, 2019:

I'd settle for romance and sex with any women who have attractive bodies and faces, regardless of hair. Hair is so trivial on women for me, even tho hair on men is so important to many if not most women in the dating game.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@azzow2 It may not be correct but, as a man who's been balding or worse since his early 30s, I can tell you that it matters a great deal to many if not most women in who they are attracted to physically, all other things being equal. Look how few male actors are sex symbols that are bald, and you have your answer....

Ever found love and got into a relationship with someone they met on agnostic?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 16, 2019:

No luck for me and you'll find that's the case for most of us, unless we are willing to date someone hundreds of miles away and then face the challenge of one of the parties having to move to the other's area. I am not up for that kind of risk, heartache and disappointment. In my case, I am stuck ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@GreatNani I was ready to date soon after my wife died, because I began anticipatory grieving a few years before she died, with the encouragement of my therapist, for her eventual death and for the loss of the person I knew. Most people who have never been a dementia spouse don't get that, because they haven't been there. But, even tho my therapist says I've been ready for a couple years to date, seems nobody compatible in my area will give me a chance. One woman who I rejected from Match, mainly because I had no attraction to her when I met her, even said to me she was sorry nobody besides her seemed willing to give me a chance. I met only six women from Match in almost two years now. It's really not that I am too picky, I am just too far out of the mainstream for my area. I hope you are right about the future, I really do, but in all honesty with how I feel now, if I end up going another 5 years or more going it alone, I probably won't feel after that that life alone is worth living....

Ever found love and got into a relationship with someone they met on agnostic?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 16, 2019:

No luck for me and you'll find that's the case for most of us, unless we are willing to date someone hundreds of miles away and then face the challenge of one of the parties having to move to the other's area. I am not up for that kind of risk, heartache and disappointment. In my case, I am stuck ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@GreatNani Thank you for validating my reality and not trying to blame me or say the problem is me, rather than my situation. On the one hand, living in farming country makes for a very poor dating pool for an Agnostic hipster and non-conformist like me. On the other hand, it's really hard to even think about dating LD or moving far away and starting over, either with making friends or with moving back and rebuilding my life if the LD relationship failed. Because very few women on Agnostic who live far away would move to my area, for good reason. And I am emotionally wore out and tired enough, after moving three times already this decade, losing both parents and my wife, as well as being a dementia spouse for over 5 years coping with my wife's disease, I am not ready to risk being broken completely by trying to date LD and having it fail or trying to move away to a better dating pool and starting over by myself either and have that not work out. One can only take so much loss and disappointment in a decade. And my local friends are really all the support I have in my life.

Ever found love and got into a relationship with someone they met on agnostic?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 16, 2019:

No luck for me and you'll find that's the case for most of us, unless we are willing to date someone hundreds of miles away and then face the challenge of one of the parties having to move to the other's area. I am not up for that kind of risk, heartache and disappointment. In my case, I am stuck ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@GreatNani We appear to have had equally hard times in recent years. I will address your points in order. The rejection and lying of online dating are very real in my case. You can accept it's true or not in my case. As far as Agnostic, I have been on here two and a half years and have yet to meet anyone at all in person, even tho I am willing to date 55 miles away, no further. As for dating someone less attractive than I want, meaning less than average-looking, no, I won't do that. I don't want to experience the disappointment and miserable experience again that it always has been for me when I meet someone, seem to be very compatible otherwise, and then quickly discover they are never going to be more than friendzone material. The women can easily see it, feel let down and often insulted, and I will not knowingly set myself or them up for that. Same with someone who is close to their family and has a strong relationship with them. First off, they will most likely reject me for not being family-oriented enough and, I am really not interested in spending much time around someone's family. Once a month maybe on average, but that's it. I don't mind getting to know someone's adult kids, it might even be nice if they became attached to me as family so I could get some support from them when I am older and sick or if I become widowed again, hopefully not within the next ten years. But not seeing them or her grandkids every week or more often than that. I really like doing couples stuff as well as seeing my friends some outside the relationship. I know there are women like that my age here on Agnostic that are independent and emotionally healthy, not tied up and emeshed with their families. But they sure don't seem to be in my area on Match nor in my area on Agnostic either. You have a valid point, I think, about the idea of being more open towards women who are family-oriented and such, but, at least on Match, any change in my attitude will make little difference, Nani, because, in my experience on there, for whatever reason, the vast majority of the women my age in my area indicate in their profiles checklist of traits at the end of the profile, that they are only looking for men with kids, even the women who don't have kids. How do I fight that, Nani?

Even the best laid plans go to hell.

webbew1 comments on Jul 17, 2019:

Retirement plan? What retirement plan??? I live paycheck to paycheck. My retirement plan is to work until they bury me in a box. Then they’ll piss on my grave for having the audacity to die while on the clock.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@Lucy_Fehr Glad you liked it being noted. I quoted it only because I liked the line about working for the man and because I don't know of any other song with a similar reference to that subject, except maybe the Bachman- Turner Overdrive song Taking Care Of Business, which I don't like at all.

Ever found love and got into a relationship with someone they met on agnostic?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 16, 2019:

No luck for me and you'll find that's the case for most of us, unless we are willing to date someone hundreds of miles away and then face the challenge of one of the parties having to move to the other's area. I am not up for that kind of risk, heartache and disappointment. In my case, I am stuck ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@GreatNani I was very positive after becoming widowed. It took a 2 year education of how brutal the online dating scene is and all that rejection and lying to make me as negative as I am now. I don't see how most people can be otherwise about it without giving up and getting out of it. Your statement about how things have " happened for" you sounds more like magical thinking that actual connection and reality. I gave up religion for that reason, no longer wishing to engage in magical thinking...

Hi @Admin, When someone tags me in a comment I get a notification.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 17, 2019:

I don't know about that, but the site seems to be glitching again for me with an old problem I've had, namely having my sent messages disappear soon after I send them and probably not being received by the member I'm sending them to.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@Ms_McSteven I don't think that's the case here with the latest problem. The guy and I already traded PMs once recently.

A man can't survive on beer alone....

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 16, 2019:

I'm surviving without either one, but a girlfriend would be nice.....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@snytiger6 That's what I have often done. However my next door neighbor with cat is moving in a matter of days.

I wish to share my feelings of joy! I was never looking for this love that filled my life, not ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 14, 2019:

Happy for you. Wish I still had hope of meeting someone like that for me, but the last two years have pretty much beaten it out of me.....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@Neenz I will not do a site like that because the last thing I want is a hookup or FWB.

How many of you feel as if your lack of any sort of religious or spiritual belief system has ...

1of5 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

My desire to never have kids impacted my dating/love life far more than being athiest ever did.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@1of5 I appreciate your wife's interest and effort, as well as your support. It's pretty common among people on the coasts to not know anybody in flyover land.....and my biggest problem is living in ground zero of flyover land.....

You have the best lures in your tackle box and can't even get a bite. Do you resort to extreems?

SaucyCheryl comments on Jul 16, 2019:

Fishing at the market. Life is too short.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@SaucyCheryl Whatever....

I wish to share my feelings of joy! I was never looking for this love that filled my life, not ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 14, 2019:

Happy for you. Wish I still had hope of meeting someone like that for me, but the last two years have pretty much beaten it out of me.....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@Neenz Again, I ask, which site did you meet on, Agnostic.com? This site has been totally useless for me in meeting anyone as nobody new has joined here in the last two years as far as women my age in my area.

Even the best laid plans go to hell.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 17, 2019:

Mine went ok, but it was mostly luck of inheriting a pretty good amount of money from, first, my mother, then my late wife, and now my father. I have always lived simply and frugally, so once I saw I would soon likely not need to work anymore, I retired about a year ago. Unless I have a stroke and ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@Bigwavedave I hear you. It always feels better to leave on your own terms, but few of us get lucky enough to have it that way. I really enjoyed getting to tell my final employer to take their job and shove it.

You have the best lures in your tackle box and can't even get a bite. Do you resort to extreems?

SaucyCheryl comments on Jul 16, 2019:

Fishing at the market. Life is too short.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

@SaucyCheryl Suit yourself. I don't really do or buy into snark on forums..

Even the best laid plans go to hell.

Lucy_Fehr comments on Jul 17, 2019:

My retirement plan is now to live off my grandchildren. I'm not really joking. I am fairly certain they will help their grandma since they've always lived with me and are pretty close to me but I hate it that they may have to. I've considered retiring to a 3rd world country but if the U.S. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

I have heard of a lot of working class people doing that, and was going to look into that if I had not inherited the money. I had heard good things about Costa Rica as a place Americans could live comfortably off a modest retirement income.

Even the best laid plans go to hell.

webbew1 comments on Jul 17, 2019:

Retirement plan? What retirement plan??? I live paycheck to paycheck. My retirement plan is to work until they bury me in a box. Then they’ll piss on my grave for having the audacity to die while on the clock.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

"Left a good job in the city, working for the man every night and day..." - Proud Mary by John Fogerty.

You have the best lures in your tackle box and can't even get a bite. Do you resort to extreems?

SaucyCheryl comments on Jul 16, 2019:

Fishing at the market. Life is too short.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 17, 2019:

Call me thick if I am misreading all the code words and metaphor used here, but, are you saying to him "go ahead and hire a prostitute"?

A man can't survive on beer alone....

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 16, 2019:

I'm surviving without either one, but a girlfriend would be nice.....

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

@MojoDave That would be truly winning the relationship lottery, Dave, at least for me.....

Ever found love and got into a relationship with someone they met on agnostic?

zesty comments on Jul 16, 2019:

Didn't find love and no relationship but had sex with a couple of guys from this site.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

Pardon me, zesty, but I always had the clear impression that all you are ever after here is recreational sex with others and that you already are in an open relationship. Feel free to enlighten me....

Ever found love and got into a relationship with someone they met on agnostic?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 16, 2019:

No luck for me and you'll find that's the case for most of us, unless we are willing to date someone hundreds of miles away and then face the challenge of one of the parties having to move to the other's area. I am not up for that kind of risk, heartache and disappointment. In my case, I am stuck ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

@GreatNani Not interested in attending political groups to meet women to date. Feels phony and I get bored and frustrated discussing politics with people who are either more centrist than me or else are just content to sit around and debate and plan while actually changing nothing. Seems too much like mental masturbation to me. Trust me, Nani, I know what I want in a partner so well I can recite it like an elevator speech by a job seeker. I even worked with a relationship coach and she totally approved of my relatively small, compared to her other clients, list of dealbreakers. Mine has only about 3-4 items. The problem is that most women in my area have a lot more than that, all of which would exclude me in most cases. Plus, my 3-4 items exclude the vast majority of women in my local dating puddle. Strongly religious women, conservative politics, liking country music very much. Being very family-oriented. Then you add in all the other reasons women reject me on dealbreakers: Being a (tho very tolerant and open-minded about it) non-drinker, not into college sports, and being childfree by choice. Even the childless women seem to only want family men with kids. Add all those together here in farm country, and I am screwed by the local culture and lifestyle mainstream from finding anyone compatible. I can't change the fact that I am very far out of the cultural and lifestyle mainstream in my local area and that leaves me with only a small sliver of compatible women my age who are single on paid dating sites. So, as I told Jnei below, I take a very strong personal interest in how Agnostic.com has really no local dating options for me due to it's lack of growth in my local area. I have even put the word out about it to the local Unitarian churches, as well as the local Meetup groups for Atheists, Humanists, and Freethinkers, but it has yet to show any results.

Ever found love and got into a relationship with someone they met on agnostic?

Jnei comments on Jul 16, 2019:

There have been a few and, I believe, one marriage - though both people involved in that one decided to leave the site, so I have no idea if it went ahead. That whole dating aspect of the site has become very secondary, however, and if it's what you're looking for you might not find it here. If ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

@Jnei As they say in the UK, maybe I'm just a bit thick, so spell it out for me how I made a huge leap?

Ever found love and got into a relationship with someone they met on agnostic?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 16, 2019:

No luck for me and you'll find that's the case for most of us, unless we are willing to date someone hundreds of miles away and then face the challenge of one of the parties having to move to the other's area. I am not up for that kind of risk, heartache and disappointment. In my case, I am stuck ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

@GreatNani Easier said than done. I am 60 and not that strong emotionally to make a big move across the country. I have never made new friends that easily or quickly. I have asked several women on here that I have got to know in my age group if they would ever move to Iowa, and they all said NO. I don't blame them, because of not only the weather, but also the culture, even around Des Moines, not being equal to where they live already. And I know from experience that when you move, you lose your old local friends pretty quickly...Then moving back if it didn't work out, another big emotional labor and expensive too..I'm already retired and moved three times already this decade. I'm 8 years older than you and, with losing my wife to dementia as well as both parents this decade, I'm emotionally tired....

Final court date tomorrow.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 16, 2019:

When you talk about that kind of history, you make me think of a wonderful, tho dark and depressing UK film I saw a few years ago, I, Daniel Blake. I doubt most Americans have ever heard of it, but man was it honest and powerful. The UE system is just as fucked up here as in your country and that's ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

@Amisja I assume that in the UK, just like in the US, the conservative get people to vote against their class interests using the same methods of division. Namely, dividing people by railing against immigrants, racial minorities, gays, abortion, promoting religion and traditional values (whatever they are) etc... Did I leave anything out?

Ever found love and got into a relationship with someone they met on agnostic?

Jnei comments on Jul 16, 2019:

There have been a few and, I believe, one marriage - though both people involved in that one decided to leave the site, so I have no idea if it went ahead. That whole dating aspect of the site has become very secondary, however, and if it's what you're looking for you might not find it here. If ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

@Jnei Because there is a real need for a specialized dating site for non-believers, since mainstream dating sites like Match just don't seem to work for us, that's why. Maybe you are fine with being alone the rest of your life or finding people to date only offline, but I am not....

Ever found love and got into a relationship with someone they met on agnostic?

JeffMesser comments on Jul 16, 2019:

dont be shy hazy. it's ok. you can just ask me. yes, I think you're cool. but I'm too old for you and we could never make it work at this distance. so let's just suspend the heartache and remember each other fondly as we do now. perfect in one anothers' minds. namaste.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

Fellow smart ass......

Ever found love and got into a relationship with someone they met on agnostic?

bobwjr comments on Jul 16, 2019:

One almost married together 14 years

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

Could you clarify a bit more what you are saying here?

Ever found love and got into a relationship with someone they met on agnostic?

Jnei comments on Jul 16, 2019:

There have been a few and, I believe, one marriage - though both people involved in that one decided to leave the site, so I have no idea if it went ahead. That whole dating aspect of the site has become very secondary, however, and if it's what you're looking for you might not find it here. If ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

It would, and still could, be a great dating site, but only if the membership numbers grew way bigger and we were not so scattered. But doing that would require a lot more advertising and money spent on it that the admin. apparently either doesn't have or doesn't want to spend on it. Relying on just word of mouth from members to promote the site to other non-believers doesn't seem to be working. The three likely places to advertise or get the word out about this site would be FB and Twitter, Unitarian churches, and local Meetup groups for Atheists and Freethinkers and also Humanist groups. I do very little on FB and probably so with many others on here, so only paid ads will work there. Unitarian churches may allow free promotion of the site thru word of mouth or even posting handmade notices on their bulletin boards about Agnostic. As far as Meetups, I have not attended one, but I'm sure they would allow people to mention or promote it at meetings. I hope the site grows in my area, because paid sites like Match just aren't working for me when I am surrounded on there by so many intolerant, traditional, conservative believers, instead of non-believing hipsters like I am on here with the forums.

We don't fight. But this descibes the daughter perfectly:

242Foxtrot comments on Jul 16, 2019:

Keep one eye open when you sleep.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

I would for sure either do that or lock the cat out of my bedroom. Kitty is already scheming her revenge.....

Final court date tomorrow.

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 16, 2019:

When you talk about that kind of history, you make me think of a wonderful, tho dark and depressing UK film I saw a few years ago, I, Daniel Blake. I doubt most Americans have ever heard of it, but man was it honest and powerful. The UE system is just as fucked up here as in your country and that's ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

@Amisja That's what I gathered in the DVD's commentary part of the film with the director and writer. I cried too the first time I watched it. How could anyone not unless they were a heartless conservative? Damn Tories and Repubs, respectively...

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

snytiger6 comments on Jul 15, 2019:

I've read that some people have. The sit eis only about 2 years old. I don't think the datign aspect of the site will be all that effective for most persons until the membership has grown more. Still for a site that only a coupel years old it has grown pretty fast. For me this is just a site ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

@snytiger6 I've heard there has been some growth in members, but not in my area. I put out the word on the site to a local Atheists group this summer, but I'm not seeing any results from that yet on here.

Do you think it is dysfunctional when 50 YO kids and their parent(s) spend nearly all their free ...

GreenAtheist comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Maybe it's a farm small town family pattern or maybe the 50's kids are staying close to the 70s inheritance....a big kegger is planned for the wake to keep the party going around the grave

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

@GreenAtheist Meaning when he backed Hillary at the convention instead of fighting for the nomination at the convention, as he said he would? I think he should have taken Jill Stein's offer to run as the Green Party candidate with her in 2016. He might have won too, but instead he cared more about keeping his committee assignments in the Senate and being able to keep working with the Dems in the Senate.

Do you think it is dysfunctional when 50 YO kids and their parent(s) spend nearly all their free ...

GreenAtheist comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Maybe it's a farm small town family pattern or maybe the 50's kids are staying close to the 70s inheritance....a big kegger is planned for the wake to keep the party going around the grave

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

@GreenAtheist Sorry Larry, but I'm too proud, or maybe too honest, to attend political rallies solely for the purpose of finding women to date. I have been around long enough that I am starting to find protest rallies as tedious pieces of public performance art that really change nothing. I have too much self respect to waste my time or energy on them. I have marched with the Sanders supporters at two parades this month and will occaisionally attend Sanders events as long as he is in the race. But I will not attend impotent lefty rallies against Trump, etc. to meet women when I don't respect anymore the usefulness or efficacy of the events these days. I have no doubt that you are probably right about all the closeted hipster and Atheist women who may be hiding there on paid dating sites in Iowa, but that knowledge won't help me any. Women who don't have the guts to be themselves in the dating market aren't compatible with a non-conformist like me anyway.....

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

LimitedLight comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Yes, then no. Yes, it was in person, 4 times. I think ppl should distinguish between cyber meeting vs in person.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

Online meeting is what I refer to as Agnostic pen pals, not real dating opportunities like meeting anyone local in person.

My joke fell flat. How do you recover?

SeaGreenEyez comments on Jul 15, 2019:

I'll be Devil's Advocate. I **hate** toilet/bodily function humor. That aside? I probably would have taken your comment as a slice because it isn't your preferred activity and I'm guessing by his response, that's how he took it. (From your posts about Bill, I have always thought Bill is all ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 16, 2019:

I too agree about toilet/body function humor as a whole. It seems very juvenile and boring to me. But having said that, I don't get offended at it like Dr, Bill. I just sigh and blow it off....

My joke fell flat. How do you recover?

LiterateHiker comments on Jul 15, 2019:

@BeerAndWine, @ToolGuy, @SeaGreenEyez, @maturin1919, @CallMeDave, @CynicalGirl, @bobwjr, @Mitch07102, @TomMcGiverin, @bigpawbullets, @PonDartIncbendog, @Bleurowz, @1of5, @scout123456 **UPDATE** Bill texted me: "I overreacted to the joke. That's one of the disadvantages of written ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

Do what you want Kathleen, date Dr. Bill, don't date him, I really don't care. Personally, I don't like rollercoasters at my age, my BP and stomach can't take them anymore, be they figurative or real. Personally, much as I like sex with an established partner, I fortunately (at least for me in my widowed celibate state) do not have as high a sex drive or level of need for it as you apparently have. Glad you seem to be meeting your needs and best fishes, as Steve Martin used to say.....

The Hardcore on Dating As several members here have posted about their grievances w/ online ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 15, 2019:

I can't afford to eat out all the time at sit down, pricey restuarants, and even if I did, I really don't see how one would meet people to date at them. The only reason I ever go to bars is for karaoke and live music, which is once or twice a week. Not that many opportunities per month then to meet ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Carin Trust me, or not, that I do not speak or behave sexually with women I just met, whether in a bar or anywhere else. I am, if anything, the anti-Trump in behavior and attitude. If I do begin seeing someone, it's going to be at LEAST several dates before I sleep with them or even bring up the idea. I need that amount of trust, comfort, and confidence first about where I stand and how I feel about them. If anything, I probably scare off some women who wonder if I am a closeted gay man or not attracted to them by the time I am ready to have sex with someone, based on today's standards. Does that answer your ?s? Hopefully my reluctance and delay doesn't scare off many otherwise compatible women, but that's how I've always been wired, even when I was young.

How many of you feel as if your lack of any sort of religious or spiritual belief system has ...

1of5 comments on Jul 14, 2019:

My desire to never have kids impacted my dating/love life far more than being athiest ever did.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@1of5 I agree with your idea of positively using and applying what I learned from my experiences in my next relationship, if I ever get one with a woman. However, that is a moot point if no one compatible and reasonable attractive, at least to me, ever gives me another chance, which is beginning to look pretty likely. As far as Agnostic being better than paid sites like Match, sure, of course it is. But that also means nothing if there are no local members my age in my area and I am not willing or really able to date LD, for reasons I have already stated here and in other threads. So, here I sit, feeling trapped and doomed to being alone, except for my friends.....I have only met seven women in person from almost two years of online dating, so the stats are pretty discouraging. My frustration is palpable....

Do you think it is dysfunctional when 50 YO kids and their parent(s) spend nearly all their free ...

GreenAtheist comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Maybe it's a farm small town family pattern or maybe the 50's kids are staying close to the 70s inheritance....a big kegger is planned for the wake to keep the party going around the grave

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@GreenAtheist Well, hipster women, esp. ones our age, have no need to hide around the Des Moines area. I think my problem is more that the few hipster Atheist women our age around Des Moines are either all taken or no longer interested in dating. Judging from the slim pickings they have of hipster Atheist men our age around DM that are single, I can see why they have either given up or decided they are better off alone. I'm afraid my only hope is to wait around until some of my peers die off and leave me some Atheist hipster widows to date...Right now I'm still too much younger to date most of the hipster Atheist widows out there.

The Hardcore on Dating As several members here have posted about their grievances w/ online ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 15, 2019:

I can't afford to eat out all the time at sit down, pricey restuarants, and even if I did, I really don't see how one would meet people to date at them. The only reason I ever go to bars is for karaoke and live music, which is once or twice a week. Not that many opportunities per month then to meet ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Deiter I see your point and that's probably why many men, tho not me, would be suspicious and not interested in an attractive-looking woman who made the first move, namely because of the assumption that she was either a mentally-ill potential stalker, like her, or a promiscuous ho. At this stage of the game, I'll take any interest I can get from an attractive-looking woman, as long as she does not already seem incompatible in some immediately detectable way. As far as promiscuity, I would always use condoms early on and never have been the kind to rush into sex with anyone new.

My joke fell flat. How do you recover?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 15, 2019:

On the one hand, Dr. Bill and CallMeDave have a point, there should be no double standard between the genders on sarcasm being used in the dating scene. On the other hand, the good doctor has more than enough money to buy a sense of humor, which he seems to be lacking, at least by my standards. But ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@LiterateHiker I stand corrected then on Bill. My point about gender double standards for sarcasm appears to still stand then...

My terms are simple....

Lilac-JadeCanada comments on Jul 15, 2019:

A binding contract.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Lilac-Jade Probably because the kitties usually don' make you sign in blood like the devil...

My terms are simple....

Lilac-JadeCanada comments on Jul 15, 2019:

A binding contract.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Lilac-Jade True, they just act like devils at times..

My terms are simple....

Lilac-JadeCanada comments on Jul 15, 2019:

A binding contract.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

Probably identical to the one the devil always provides in stories.

{{{originally posted on}}} 6-6-06 (Seriously folks, if you love your faith, Don’t Read This!!!)...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 14, 2019:

In the words of the bard, Bob Dylan, in "Positively 4th St.." " You have no faith to lose, and you know it".

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Storm1752 Thanks for the honesty. Frankly, he's been done and should have retired from performing back in the early 90s. But it's his life and his career, so, as long as people will buy tickets and show up, he clearly plans to continue until he either dies onstage or gets so ill he has to quit.

The Hardcore on Dating As several members here have posted about their grievances w/ online ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 15, 2019:

I can't afford to eat out all the time at sit down, pricey restuarants, and even if I did, I really don't see how one would meet people to date at them. The only reason I ever go to bars is for karaoke and live music, which is once or twice a week. Not that many opportunities per month then to meet ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Deiter As long as men of each generation are willing to make the first move, as they mostly do on dating sites and IRL, women will mostly sit back and passively screen the suitors, instead of taking on the pursuing. Decades of feminism don't seem to have changed that much at all and it won't change, as long as most women continue to meet the kind of men they want while continuing to play the passive role. It definitely ain't changing while I or you are alive, as you said...It would be really interesting to see some empirical studies of success rates on dating sites of couples meeting that led to LTRs, instead of the site's own claims, which I doubt the truth of. My guess is the sites want only enough success to give them some legitimacy, while at the same time wanting mostly failure with their customers because it gives them long term customers and most of the sites are all owned by the same conglomerate, so they don't need to compete with each other by providing better service or more success in couples meeting than other sites.

The Hardcore on Dating As several members here have posted about their grievances w/ online ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 15, 2019:

I can't afford to eat out all the time at sit down, pricey restuarants, and even if I did, I really don't see how one would meet people to date at them. The only reason I ever go to bars is for karaoke and live music, which is once or twice a week. Not that many opportunities per month then to meet ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Deiter Totally agree. As with online dating, it seems like the only kind of women that approach me first, whether in online dating or IRL, are, to be blunt, almost always unattractive-looking, at least to me. They probably make the first move because they know from experience that with their below average looks, the men will never approach them first. There were only two attractive-looking women on Match who approached me first, but I didn't return the interest because they had not even viewed my profile first and had nothing in common with me. Was not interested in just having a hookup or a FWB since I want a partner, not just sex. How many men honestly say and mean that these days?? There have been a couple rare IRL exceptions in my life, but they were when I was younger, before I met my wife, when I had a head of hair and an athletic body. Those few women were still just average looking then. Such is the nature of the game and it hasn't really changed since I was young, only, as your study showed, the meeting modes have changed. These days, I've had so much rejection, leaving me with so little confidence, that in an IRL situation, the woman will need to give me a LOT of "help" if she is attracted to and interested in me. Maybe not jump on me, but not much less than that.......

Do you think it is dysfunctional when 50 YO kids and their parent(s) spend nearly all their free ...

GreenAtheist comments on Jul 13, 2019:

Maybe it's a farm small town family pattern or maybe the 50's kids are staying close to the 70s inheritance....a big kegger is planned for the wake to keep the party going around the grave

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

You're describing what is very common here in Iowa, even in the urban areas, not just rural, since the rural culture most people grew up in follows them even after they go to college and move to Des Moines, my area. Hence, that's why I say that most of my problem in online dating is trying to find a single hipster woman out of a dating pool chock full of farmer's daughters, exactly who I don't want and who don't want me....

Do you think it is dysfunctional when 50 YO kids and their parent(s) spend nearly all their free ...

JacobMeyers comments on Jul 13, 2019:

That is completely personal and I imagine hugely influenced by culture and subculture. Some might think it would be really odd if you didn’t spend a majority of your time with your family. I think until recently (in terms of human history) it was the norm for multiple generations of a family to ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@gigihein Totally agree with you and Jacob, class and culture make a big diff in what is considered "normal".

Do you think it is dysfunctional when 50 YO kids and their parent(s) spend nearly all their free ...

CrazyQuilter comments on Jul 14, 2019:

First of all, my apologies to those who spend a lot of time with their supportive and nurturing families. Yes, I come from a dysfunctional family and I still struggle with understanding ‘what is normal?’ After more thinking, I realize that what I’ve seen is that a few families I have ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

What you describe seems to be a close, functional, but ill-mannered family, at least by my middle class standards. For what sounds like a lower class family, that would not be considered ill-mannered, maybe not even considered ill-mannered by upper class families, but I wouldn't know since I have never partied with any of that crowd, esp. not around their parents. I come from an estranged, splintered dysfunctional family, so I get your points and agree with most of them. Functional or not, honestly close or not, being oriented towards family seems to be very important and mainstream expected in Iowa if you don't want to be seen and rejected as an outcast, esp. in the dating game. So, I have had a lot of blanket rejection since being widowed.

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

creative51 comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Depends on your definition of special. I have met some wonderful, interesting and insightful people who are male, female, straight, gay and trans. I consider that special. No I have not met my dream - ideal woman on here, likely because such a woman does not exist in reality, only in my imagination.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Ms_McSteven Point well taken. I'm not proud of it, but speaking of settling for losers, sometimes, to cheer myself up a little on my dating woes, I watch WE's Love After Lock-Up, to remind myself there are worse things than being rejected across the board on Match, namely trying to date an inmate or ex-con........

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

creative51 comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Depends on your definition of special. I have met some wonderful, interesting and insightful people who are male, female, straight, gay and trans. I consider that special. No I have not met my dream - ideal woman on here, likely because such a woman does not exist in reality, only in my imagination.

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Ms_McSteven Ain't that the fucking truth. Problem is, I don't have alcohol to blind me enough about a woman, as I don't drink, and I refuse to deny the truth, so lowering my standards doesn't work for me either.., not on the few dealbreakers I have on my end, not the woman's end, where most women seem to have way more dealbreakers than me.

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

snytiger6 comments on Jul 15, 2019:

I've read that some people have. The sit eis only about 2 years old. I don't think the datign aspect of the site will be all that effective for most persons until the membership has grown more. Still for a site that only a coupel years old it has grown pretty fast. For me this is just a site ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

Actually I think it's at least 3 years old, maybe more. As far as growth, there's been almost none in my local area over the last two years, at least for women my age.....

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

Ms_McSteven comments on Jul 15, 2019:

There are a few anonymous screen names I have a friendly rapport with. I passed up two separate opportunities to meet members face to face. One was someone who decided from my photo and location that he wanted to date me, and I was bothered by that, because I had only been on the site for about a ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

I traded messages with two women who live in the same town as me soon after I joined and neither one would meet me. One seemed to be out of my league in looks and the other was average looking. The good looking one made a lame excuse why we weren't a match. The average-looking one simply ghosted me once I suggested meeting. So, I can relate...

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

daylily comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Perhaps, but not that I'm aware of. I've seen a few potentials, ones I might be attracted to, but I tend to think that those ones would look at my profile and assume I'm not what they're looking for (being less educated, not "petite," no illustrious career, etc.). Really, it's like finding a needle ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@daylily She is the Raquel Welch for men of my generation who are progressive hipsters who like cougars and, like Raquel, she has aged quite well. Too bad she dumped Tim Robbins, who I also admire, for a younger man. When I was much younger, Raquel was my celeb crush...

Deal-breakers and Red Flags are often discussed here - this is the opposite. Not a bad start?

TomMcGiverin comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Those are all positive things, but you have no way of becoming aware of them until you have at least met the person several times in person for dates or meetings. Trading messages with them or even talking on the phone are still so indirect and impersonal that they really won't provide you any clues...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@Allamanda I hear your point, but I've lived in Iowa my whole life. I know the culture here way better than an outsider and I am just being honest and realistic about what it's like in my area. You can either take my word on it or not and make of it what you will...A woman, in my local culture, can get away with being a lot more assertive and direct with men early in the dating process, and thus, be able to bring up and evaluate this stuff early. But if a man tries it, he will scare women away, as I described. I know this from experience......Of course, the woman will scare away some men too, but not if, as McSteven above said on another thread, she has an attractive photo, then the men will abide her aggressive approach and give her the data we both are after.

Has anyone found someone special on this site?

daylily comments on Jul 15, 2019:

Perhaps, but not that I'm aware of. I've seen a few potentials, ones I might be attracted to, but I tend to think that those ones would look at my profile and assume I'm not what they're looking for (being less educated, not "petite," no illustrious career, etc.). Really, it's like finding a needle ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Jul 15, 2019:

@OwlInASack No worries, Owl. Esp. these days, I tend to be what the Brits call a bit thick when it comes to picking up on snark or tongue in cheek humor. My anger or defensiveness gets triggered easily in ambiguous or impersonal things like text messages or online boards.