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‘Straight Pride’ organisers revealed to have links to far-right and white nationalist groups
IamNobody comments on Jun 10, 2019:
Fair question... Why is it ok for one side of the aisle to have a pride badge but not ok for the other side? (Note I haven't even said which side is which... No need for that, it should be the same both ways)
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 11, 2019:
@Kafirah Kind of how I feel, as a socialist, about the ultra-rich. They already have more money than God or than anybody could spend, but they won't be happy until they have it all. As well as total control and power over all the lower classes than their own.
‘Straight Pride’ organisers revealed to have links to far-right and white nationalist groups
Sticks48 comments on Jun 10, 2019:
Those cocksuckers!
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 11, 2019:
@Sticks48 I like your choice of words here Sticks. Personally, I only use the term cocksuckers as an emphatic insult intended towards straight men (not gay men at all) who are so despicable that they will do anything to get their way or screw others over. As in a former work supervisor of me and my work buddy who called Jim a lying cocksucker for how low Jim would stoop to screw over me and my work buddy. No offense to gay men at all, just that Jim was the kind of straight man who would literally suck a man's cock to get what he wanted. Lower than a snake in the grass, with apologies to snakes....
‘Straight Pride’ organisers revealed to have links to far-right and white nationalist groups
IamNobody comments on Jun 10, 2019:
Fair question... Why is it ok for one side of the aisle to have a pride badge but not ok for the other side? (Note I haven't even said which side is which... No need for that, it should be the same both ways)
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 11, 2019:
@Kafirah Never been a fan of parades either, any kind of parade. Many years ago I marched with my late wife as straight allies in one of the early Gay Pride Parades in my area. Back then the local media barely covered it as they weren't sure it would be worth the flack they would get from their mainstream audience. I see no need to march in it these days, even tho I am just as supportive of LGBHT as back then, because the event is now so accepted and mainstream and Iowa even has gay marriage and gay adoption of kids. So I just don't see it these days as being so important for me to involved in the parade.
‘Straight Pride’ organisers revealed to have links to far-right and white nationalist groups
Unicorn85 comments on Jun 10, 2019:
I don't want to play the victim. But they should go through all the shit I have gone through for my feelings and then maybe they will be allowed to have pride events. They'll have had shit for any other reason, but not for their orientation.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 11, 2019:
@altschmerz I agree that it's as much a movement of the clueless as it is haters.
‘Straight Pride’ organisers revealed to have links to far-right and white nationalist groups
JacarC comments on Jun 10, 2019:
Don't believe this shit. The left-polers label anyone they don't like as "far-right."
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 11, 2019:
@altschmerz Thanks for the explanation, now I get the Felicia thing and how RavenCT is using it. I guess I'm old fashioned and stick with FU and the horse you rode in on", but then I don't like to change anything that fits and still works.....
‘Straight Pride’ organisers revealed to have links to far-right and white nationalist groups
Unicorn85 comments on Jun 10, 2019:
I don't want to play the victim. But they should go through all the shit I have gone through for my feelings and then maybe they will be allowed to have pride events. They'll have had shit for any other reason, but not for their orientation.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 11, 2019:
@altschmerz That All Lives Matter shit is just a sick, cruel joke on the part of racists and lovers of authority and the police who see colored people as of less value than animals.
‘Straight Pride’ organisers revealed to have links to far-right and white nationalist groups
IamNobody comments on Jun 10, 2019:
Fair question... Why is it ok for one side of the aisle to have a pride badge but not ok for the other side? (Note I haven't even said which side is which... No need for that, it should be the same both ways)
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 11, 2019:
@Kafirah Exactly. Why do whites need another parade to celebrate their racial privilege? We already have plenty of them, including St. Patrick's Day and Columbus Day, Thanksgiving, etc. How many are enough for you?
‘Straight Pride’ organisers revealed to have links to far-right and white nationalist groups
Sandman07 comments on Jun 10, 2019:
At the expense of looking like I'm raining on the gay parade, which I have absolutely no intention of doing, why not have a heterosexual parade? Life is a celebration. Let's not limit ourselves. Also, obviously some of these organizers (I'm hoping not all) have an agenda and their goal is to piss ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 11, 2019:
@A2Jennifer That's exactly what Chris Rock used to say in his comedy routine, damn near every month in the US is White History Month with all these holidays in honor of famous white people. And every damn NASCAR race is a celebration of white ethnic pride. Let's get real about our culture in America.
‘Straight Pride’ organisers revealed to have links to far-right and white nationalist groups
JacarC comments on Jun 10, 2019:
Don't believe this shit. The left-polers label anyone they don't like as "far-right."
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 11, 2019:
@A2Jennifer, @RavenCT That's the second time I've seen you refer to Felicia, so who is she?
‘Straight Pride’ organisers revealed to have links to far-right and white nationalist groups
JacarC comments on Jun 10, 2019:
Don't believe this shit. The left-polers label anyone they don't like as "far-right."
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@A2Jennifer I'm generally not a fan of snark, as I prefer sarcasm instead. More old school and direct, but you nailed it here Jennifer! I'm sure their problem is only that they weren't hugged enough as kids.....NOT.
‘Straight Pride’ organisers revealed to have links to far-right and white nationalist groups
Sticks48 comments on Jun 10, 2019:
Those cocksuckers!
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
Well, maybe a few of them in the literal sense, Sticks, as there always seem to be a few right-wing men that turn out to be closeted gays.
Getting the most out of Agnostic.com
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:
Saying you are a non-conformist in you bio is a good thing and it should attract more folks that it turns off. I would get rid of any photos showing you with women as it might make it look like you are already in a relationship. Women are often easily discouraged or suspicious of men who say they ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@KnowIngGlance I hadn't thought of that, so what you're doing makes total sense. I just assume everyone is monogamous until I hear otherwise. Until recently, I had never even heard of poly relationships outside of the Mormons, of course. It's a different world from when I grew up......not saying that any of that alternative lifestyle stuff is bad, just something new to get used to.
Nothing beats being single except being single and living alone! I had such an experience for 2 ...
Booklover comments on Jun 10, 2019:
After my divorce I live alone. The first time ever, went from my Mom's house to my husband's house at 19. 35 years married. I love living alone. NOT the crazy cat lady because I only have two. Lol. I have a gentleman friend who lives about two hours away and we see each other once a week or so. ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@Booklover Am I right about Cupid requiring a phone app?
Nothing beats being single except being single and living alone! I had such an experience for 2 ...
Booklover comments on Jun 10, 2019:
After my divorce I live alone. The first time ever, went from my Mom's house to my husband's house at 19. 35 years married. I love living alone. NOT the crazy cat lady because I only have two. Lol. I have a gentleman friend who lives about two hours away and we see each other once a week or so. ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@Booklover I have heard of that site, but I haven't explored it because it has a much smaller membership than Match and I also may have heard that it is only a phone app and requires a smartphone, which I am not willing to get or use.
Edit: apparently this requires a trigger warning.
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:
I see your point and now I know who you were talking about and criticizing on his post's thread. I did not see where he said anything about only wanting to date women who were way younger than him. But I can tell you from my experience that, as Sticks says, it goes both ways, not that I am excusing ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@motrubl4u And maybe the reason is none of our business, that is your call. We all deserve some privacy and secrets to keep, even if we put our opinions out here on the boards.
Nothing beats being single except being single and living alone! I had such an experience for 2 ...
Booklover comments on Jun 10, 2019:
After my divorce I live alone. The first time ever, went from my Mom's house to my husband's house at 19. 35 years married. I love living alone. NOT the crazy cat lady because I only have two. Lol. I have a gentleman friend who lives about two hours away and we see each other once a week or so. ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
Sounds ideal, but that is still different than my situation and that of most singles. We both live alone, but you are not alone as far as not having a dating partner. Makes a world of difference in my book.
America's Real Economy: It Isn't Booming
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:
It hasn't been for a very long time, at least not for average people, even long before 2008. I already knew that just from talking to people and looking around. But then again, I am a lot smarter and deeper in my thinking than the average sheeple.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@Antidronefreeman Ok, fair enough, I wasn't assuming any insult on your part, just making it clear that I'm an old fart Boomer who is generally very serious and sincere in my comments, with the exception of when I use sarcasm that is about as subtle as a jet engine. Snark is still almost a foreign language to me, as is emoji some of the time. Which is why I usually don't use emoji online.
America's Real Economy: It Isn't Booming
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:
It hasn't been for a very long time, at least not for average people, even long before 2008. I already knew that just from talking to people and looking around. But then again, I am a lot smarter and deeper in my thinking than the average sheeple.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@Antidronefreeman What is your point? I don't try to communicate two-way with snark, only when I want to send a message one way to others. Snark is not a sincere way to communicate conversationally, just a way to show off how clever and supposedly smarter you are from others.
Edit: apparently this requires a trigger warning.
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:
I see your point and now I know who you were talking about and criticizing on his post's thread. I did not see where he said anything about only wanting to date women who were way younger than him. But I can tell you from my experience that, as Sticks says, it goes both ways, not that I am excusing ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@Jnei I respect your opinion and she makes some legit criticism of Jacob, I suppose on his thread, even tho I never thought I saw anything on there from him about only wanting to date women much younger than him. I am still going to block her as I can see where she is heading with me anyway.....I still think she has a general hostility towards any men that don't meet her strict standards of approval of their language and having to be totally non-critical towards any general female behavior. That is a debate I am tired of having on these boards.
I realized something today about myself.
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:
I wish I could help man, but it would be the blind leading the blind because I have never been good at talking to single women either when I am single and on the market. I am fine at talking to female friends and to a woman that I have been dating for a while when she has given me enough ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@OpposingOpposum You are wrong about me and don't know me. I have and have had many female friends. I think you are just plain hostile and defensive towards men, regardless of what Jacob said. Take a look at yourself as well. I have two sisters. And, trust me, even tho I know you won't, even here in Des Moines, Iowa, women will almost never approach a man that is a stranger even if she is interested in him. Only happens in bars, and very rarely. Maybe it's different in FL, but not here.
America's Real Economy: It Isn't Booming
Moravian comments on Jun 10, 2019:
It is reckoned that by 2020 40% of Americans will be working in the gig economy. Low wages and no job security. Hardly a booming economy
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
It really is a new form of slavery. The movie Sorry To Bother You made some great, biting satirical points about how in the near future the gig economizing of America will leave most people little choice but either gig jobs or joining the military, assuming they are young enough that the military will take them. In the movie, an evil company had billboards all over advertising for workers who would have to sign lifetime contracts to be employed by the company, mainly in temp jobs that were unsafe and bad, in exchange for being given food, housing, and some money. Sound a little like slavery, that's because it is.....
It's Muuundaaaay
WonderWartHog99 comments on Jun 10, 2019:
# According to Sesame Street it's --
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@WonderWartHog99 I have a neighbor down the hall from me that has a therapy cat.
It's Muuundaaaay
aahouck49 comments on Jun 10, 2019:
dang it Charlene so stabbing people is wrong, dadblast it, what a downer!!! freaked out, man that happened, drinking coffee, yes, you have not noticed?? I am a potato these days!!! got any advice how to keep positive? what you smokin today girl?? however, thanks needed that one, but I know ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
Speaking of wanting to stab people, whatever happened to stinkeye? She used to allude to that feeling and she was quite witty. Anybody heard from her or seen her on these boards? Hopefully she didn't block me.
It's Muuundaaaay
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:
Glad I'm retired. I remember how some working days I almost needed to be reminded that stabbing people is wrong, lol!
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@WonderWartHog99 Quite right. I value my freedom, even if I'm kind of apathetic about my reputation....
I realized something today about myself.
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:
I wish I could help man, but it would be the blind leading the blind because I have never been good at talking to single women either when I am single and on the market. I am fine at talking to female friends and to a woman that I have been dating for a while when she has given me enough ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@OpposingOpposum Thank you for coming back and giving us some kind of explanation of your message. I think you are being a little harsh on Jacob and I don't see him as misogynist here. Nobody here, him, me, or Deiter is saying that women are bitches or talking about them as if they are. And I think that all three of us men are also not saying that men who want to date should be given a complete pass on being able to hold a conversation at all. I don't want to date women who are too dim, shallow, or self-absorbed to hold a conversation either, for that matter. The question the three of us men were discussing was exactly how perfect, smooth, confident, etc. the man is or should be expected to be in his part of those conversations. It's easy to be demanding and critical when you know that you yourself know that most of the time you will not have to be the one approaching the other person in the dating game. Not so much when you are the gender that these days is still expected to make the first move or approach, which is my main point.
I have tried a couple of other date sites and so many profiles start out with must love Jesus, or ...
MayQueen comments on Jun 10, 2019:
I used to be on dating sites and the first sentence in my profile was "I do not get involved with religious people." And in West Michigan, that weeds out at least 75% of potential candidates. Add my other dealbreakers in there and.....*crickets*
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
I feel your pain. I really don't have that many dealbreaker's either, but when you add in the dealbreakers that almost all of the women in my area have, due to them being very mainstream in culture and lifestyle compared to me, then it is almost crickets. I don't know what the answer is other than being alone, moving to somewhere with a better dating pool or trying to date LD. I am starting to consider trying to date LD for women who live two hours away from me in a very hip, liberal university town because I am told by a trusted female friend that in that area there are significantly more women my age than men. Plus, it is a place I would be open to moving to if the relationship worked out, really the only place away from my area that I would be willing to try LD and move to.
I realized something today about myself.
UUNJ comments on Jun 10, 2019:
Why not switch to a phone conversation?
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@motrubl4u That has also been my experience, so I don't suggest a phone talk very often with women when I haven't yet met them in person because it seems to scare most of them off. In fact, I usually try to wait for the woman to suggest trading phone numbers in online dating, even at the end of the first in person meeting. It's so hard to know when or if a woman is ready to give out that kind of info without just asking them directly or offering your own info. And even then, you run the risk of the woman being turned off because she sees your giving her your phone number as pressure to call soon and see you again soon.
I realized something today about myself.
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:
I wish I could help man, but it would be the blind leading the blind because I have never been good at talking to single women either when I am single and on the market. I am fine at talking to female friends and to a woman that I have been dating for a while when she has given me enough ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@motrubl4u That was my reaction too, which is why I messaged you about it.I couldn't tell who she was taking about from here, much less what her point really was...Glad I wasn't alone in that.
I would welcome the opportunity to try psychedelics, to counteract my suicidal despair, which has ...
Moravian comments on Jun 10, 2019:
My partners sister who lives in Connecticut had electric shock treatment to her brain as treatment for her severe depression and although it is a controversial treatment it certainly worked for her.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
Same thing with a longtime friend of mine here in Iowa. The downside is the ECT wipes out a lot of his short term or recent memories after each treatment.
WHO’S DATING “LOCAL?
Susieq comments on Jun 10, 2019:
I dated a nice fellow from this site several times, but had to let him go as I was getting involved with a fellow atheist from my Senior Center. Still involved , going on 6 months.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
Jeez- No way I would ever be able to meet a fellow non-believer at my local senior center. They still recite the pledge of allegiance before they eat, along with a moment of silence (probably used to be a moment of prayer) too. Do those practices bug you too?
Nothing beats being single except being single and living alone! I had such an experience for 2 ...
slydr68 comments on Jun 10, 2019:
I agree! I moved back to NC from CO after my business partner had a breakdown which cost us our company. I live with my daughter right now, but she makes it very clear that I'm only here because she allows it. I am verbally and emotionally abused regularly, and yet I have no other options... This is...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
I feel for you. Hope things improve for you in the future.
I realized something today about myself.
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 10, 2019:
I wish I could help man, but it would be the blind leading the blind because I have never been good at talking to single women either when I am single and on the market. I am fine at talking to female friends and to a woman that I have been dating for a while when she has given me enough ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@OpposingOpposum I'm puzzled about your comment here. Where on this thread does your quote in quotation marks appear? Is that sentence a quote from another thread by the OP, Jacob? I know I never said that on these boards. Who is S? Just curious......
Givers and Takers Is it entirely true?
Ms_McSteven comments on May 31, 2019:
Takers are probably more likely to have a comfortable bed to sleep in, after a nice meal. Takers aren't bothered by their consciences, or else they would eventually stop taking. I don't know, I'm chronically sleep-deprived and can't think straight.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
One thing, among a few others, that I don't miss about being a school bus driver before I retired, is the chronic sleep deprivation of such a goofy schedule. Going to sleep early in the evening during the school year, getting up at 5:30 am for work and going out into the dark winter cold. Most people would never agree to do it for a PT job with no benefits, even tho the hourly pay was good.
Tearing down the building will not change the story of Columbine, to somehow make the massacre any ...
t1nick comments on Jun 9, 2019:
I do not know if everybody in the community is aware. A month ago, young girl from Florida ( I think) made her way to Colorado. She posted on Facebook or Instagram that she intended to honor the shooters of Columbine with another mass shooting in the school. She planned to make it even bigger. ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
Always feel a bit relieved when some asshole murderer takes their own life so we the taxpayer don't have to pay for the asshole's trial and imprisonment for the rest of their life as a waste of space and human skin. The only bad part of that outcome is that they don't get to suffer in prison for the rest of their life.
Right Wingers are gathering courage across the world Lesbian couple viciously beaten in ...
zesty comments on Jun 7, 2019:
Let's think! What if one of these ladies had a loaded weapon in her purse? So much for British gun control!
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
I'm not saying I agree with you zesty, but since guns aren't allowed in the UK, but knives are, if I were one of the young women attacked, I would be getting one and learning how to use it.. or at least getting another weapon like mace or pepper spray....
Religion in a relationship
Fred_Snerd comments on Jun 9, 2019:
One can be an atheist and still be a victim of culture, the other God. Freeing each other from indoctrination should be the goal. Religion will eventually have to be scrutinized likewise.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 10, 2019:
@Fred_Snerd That is exactly what it takes, namely the person's identity, personal sense of security, sense of there being justice in their world, the loss of or total failure of their support system and community to be there and help them cope, those are part of how major calamities cause people to change because they finally realize how their indoctrination has failed them and that sticking with it will destroy them mentally and not allow them to survive or move on, much less improve things in their life.
Spirituality in Film & Literature
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 8, 2019:
To be honest, I really don't watch much in the way of TV shows or movies about sci fi, fantasy or supernatural stuff. It usually doesn't interest me. Most of what I watch is about actual mortal people, altho with some imagination thrown in so it is more interesting than real life, as well as biopics...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 9, 2019:
@GreenAtheist Yeah, preachers and ministers tend to be very negatively portrayed by King in his works. He seems to see them as corrupt, callow, and sometimes even evil.
Very challenging week, the ex and his girlfriend (they live across the street from me), started ...
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 9, 2019:
Glad I have never been divorced. It has to be tough continuing to see someone that you know is a dick or bitch around that you can't get out of your life no matter how much you would like to.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 9, 2019:
@GwenBFree I understand and respect that Gwen, but I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive. One can try to make the most of one's life and try at the same time to find someone thru online dating. That's what I was saying that I wished more women in my area that are on Match would do, instead of staying bitter and stuck in their previous relationship emotionally while being on a dating site.
Spirituality in Film & Literature
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 8, 2019:
To be honest, I really don't watch much in the way of TV shows or movies about sci fi, fantasy or supernatural stuff. It usually doesn't interest me. Most of what I watch is about actual mortal people, altho with some imagination thrown in so it is more interesting than real life, as well as biopics...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 9, 2019:
@GreenAtheist You are correct about all the poetic justice that is meted out in not only that film, but in a lot of films based on Stephen King works. I really like that aspect when I see it in a film, even if it's not that realistic, because there is way too little poetic justice in this world. Maybe that's part of why so many people buy into religion, hoping that with that they may see some poetic justice in the next life or realm they end up in. I admit that's seductive, but not enough to make me believe again.
Very challenging week, the ex and his girlfriend (they live across the street from me), started ...
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 9, 2019:
Glad I have never been divorced. It has to be tough continuing to see someone that you know is a dick or bitch around that you can't get out of your life no matter how much you would like to.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 9, 2019:
@ToolGuy True. I have run across some, but it's pretty rare. Which is why I run across so many bitter-seeming divorced women on Match.
Very challenging week, the ex and his girlfriend (they live across the street from me), started ...
zesty comments on Jun 9, 2019:
Have a threesome!
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 9, 2019:
@Deiter She is indeed a cougar and probably a lot of other things, but she's harmless and likeable....
Religion in a relationship
Fred_Snerd comments on Jun 9, 2019:
One can be an atheist and still be a victim of culture, the other God. Freeing each other from indoctrination should be the goal. Religion will eventually have to be scrutinized likewise.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 9, 2019:
You make a very good point here Fred. I have run across non-believers on Match that are still not very compatible with me, at least in their minds, because all they and I really share is our non-belief and that by itself is not enough. In states like Iowa and Nebraska, the culture is just as powerful as religion in shaping people and if someone has lived here all their life or even spent most of their life in a place like that, most people, but not all (because there are always exceptions like me that rebel against or reject the mainstream culture and still remain there to live) will end up adopting the mainstream culture in order to fit in, get along with others, etc. And in most cases, even after they have abandoned their religion they will maintain their longtime culture, which, in the case of the Midwest states, is country music, family being everything, college sports being big, social drinking (with the exception of religious fundys) being the center of their social life and their politics usually being conservative or middle of the road. That last cultural trait is the one most likely to change after someone adopts non-belief, but not always so. Non-believers tend to move left in their politics after they drop religion, but not always so.
Very challenging week, the ex and his girlfriend (they live across the street from me), started ...
zesty comments on Jun 9, 2019:
Have a threesome!
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 9, 2019:
You may be on to something. Maybe suggesting a threesome, not matter how insincere, would repulse, scare, or freak them out enough to leave you alone. Just a facetious thought, probably not a good idea as it would probably be used against you later. But I would love to see the look on their faces if you suggested it with a straight face.
Very challenging week, the ex and his girlfriend (they live across the street from me), started ...
zesty comments on Jun 9, 2019:
Have a threesome!
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 9, 2019:
@zesty, @Deiter I have to add a caveat to that Deiter. Sometimes the fact that you had sex with a particular person, esp. if they were someone you shouldn't have tangoed with, can cause you a lot of stress later on! So I am told......
Very challenging week, the ex and his girlfriend (they live across the street from me), started ...
zesty comments on Jun 9, 2019:
Have a threesome!
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 9, 2019:
@zesty You have a more thick calloused skin than most of us, at least figuratively, regarding sex. I and probably most people, would have a tough time having, much less enjoying, sex with an ex that we really disliked, along with their new "friend". I still like you zesty, but you are way more emotionally detached about sex than most of us, I think.
Very challenging week, the ex and his girlfriend (they live across the street from me), started ...
Deiter comments on Jun 9, 2019:
Part of *moving on* is *moving away*. Seeing exes in your day-to-day is just salting a wound. This kind of Fleetwood Mac version of breaking-up-but-staying-in-the-band seems like madness to me. Sorry you have to do it this way. If it's not the most painful, it's certainly the least convenient way of...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 9, 2019:
I agree, I have always thought that arrangement of so many former partners in FM was the most nutty thing I had ever seen....
Very challenging week, the ex and his girlfriend (they live across the street from me), started ...
zesty comments on Jun 9, 2019:
Have a threesome!
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 9, 2019:
zesty, you are just terrible, but always so funny!
Spirituality in Film & Literature
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 8, 2019:
To be honest, I really don't watch much in the way of TV shows or movies about sci fi, fantasy or supernatural stuff. It usually doesn't interest me. Most of what I watch is about actual mortal people, altho with some imagination thrown in so it is more interesting than real life, as well as biopics...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 9, 2019:
@GreenAtheist I think the experience of Andy's character is way more gray and complicated than your summary here Larry. As far as I'm concerned, the state of Maine, in the movie, wrongfully convicted him, sent him to prison, and kept him there wrongfully and illegally, even after the other inmate came forward with evidence that would have freed Andy eventually. And even tho the warden and Hadley acted criminally to keep Andy in prison after Tommy came forward, the state is still responsible morally, if not legally, for Andy being kept in prison so long. Also, Andy had no intention of ever getting rich of the warden's financial crimes. And he only continued to help the warden with that after Tommy's murder due to the warden exhorting him over hurting the other inmates. After Andy escaped he exposed the warden and Hadley and took some, but not all of the money the warden made illegally. The way I see it, Andy's money was sort of an informal out of court settlement with the state of Maine for everything that the state had done or allowed to be done to him.
How do you debunk it when someone claims religion, no matter it's true or false' serves as an ...
KITDFOHS comments on Jun 8, 2019:
Some people can't handle the truth, so you just have to let them be!
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 9, 2019:
Sometimes, like with the point you just made about how some people can't handle the truth, makes me want to post a link to the scene in A Few Good Men where Jack Nicholson bellows out that line in the courtroom. I never tire of watching it and it makes me laugh....I'm too tech retarded to know how to post that, but maybe somebody will help me out.....
Don't tease Opera Cat!
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 9, 2019:
How could you ever get a cat into that?
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 9, 2019:
@IrishTxJudy My ? still stands. My neighbor has a hell of a time restraining her cat or trying to get something put on her cat, so I wondered if it's a process of rewarding them, tricking them into holding still, or just strong-arming them into not moving?
It pains me to block ladies. Women need to support each other.
maturin1919 comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I don't understand the imperative to do so. Shitty people come in all sexes and genders. I feel no need to support someone simply because they are a match between the legs or ears.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@Ms_McSteven Hope you're right, we will see. My generation, the Boomers, were behind some great things when we were young, but later, in the late 1970s and particularly in the 80s, most of them sold out and became very selfish, pursuing comfort over reform of the system and the social order. I am often ashamed of my generation overall and I understand why the millenials, the kids of the Boomers, hate and resent us so as a generation. They are right to, we did not do well by them as a group. And yes, Bernie was the first prez candidate that I actually got excited about and volunteered for as well in my whole adult life, because I knew he was not only the first real progressive with a chance since McGovern, who I was too young to vote for then, but I also knew that he was the real deal instead of all these fake progressive Dems we started seeing in the late 70s on and he also wasn't seen as a kook like Kuccinich, Nader, or Jerry Brown or too unelectable like Jesse Jackson. I finally had hope that the right person was finally running that could actually win.
This is how women SUPPORT other women: .
Deiter comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I'd amend to a *strong person*. Patriarchy is a dirty word and yet we all know that the only thing that will *fix* patriarchy is more patriarchy, i.e. good rather than bad. Unless women can fix it on their own. I, for one, don't think they can. I hear many women say *forget about men as allies.*...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
You make a good point about women needing men as allies. Without it, they never would have gotten the right to vote nor would the feminist movement have succeeded. Same with the civil rights movement for blacks. Never would have made it without white allies, most of which were Jewish. Same with gay and lesbian rights, and so on. Oppressed groups always need allies from the dominant group as well as the support of other oppressed groups in order to succeed.
This is how women SUPPORT other women: .
Tomas comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I’m thrilled there are so many women emerging on the political front, I hope more women are inspired to join the political arena... hope even more a woman becomes “Madam President” of USA. (in my lifetime)
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
As another pro-feminist male, I too support and look forward to that. But I am very disturbed, beginning with Hillary's run for prez, how too many people, both men and women, are getting blinded by identity politics and rashly supporting female candidates solely on their gender instead of their policies, character, and trustworthiness to actually hold to those policies in office. Don't let the history making lead you into voting for people who are corrupt, bought off, liars, or not progressive enough to deal with the problems we are facing. I'm afraid of people voting foolishly for female candidates the same way they supported and voted for Obama just because he was black. Big deal, after he got into office it became clear that people were projecting all these liberal and progressive traits onto him just because he was the first black prez, but he turned out to be a liar on much of his campaign rhetoric and his policies ended up being mostly a continuation of Bush's last term, including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, except for the ACA, which was actually no different than Romneycare in MA and was a Heritage (conservative group) Foundation healthcare plan from the 1990s. No wonder more than one commentator called Obama " Bush In Blackface" because it was well deserved. He was also just as friendly to Wall Street as Bush.
This is how women SUPPORT other women: .
TonyCarl1 comments on Jun 8, 2019:
When i was a young man, and have never experienced a woman in all her glory( in other words i was still a virgin) I was lucky enough that a woman that knew me from when i was 12 took me under her wing, she was 36 I was 17 going on 18. She literally taught me what to expect as woman grow older. I ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
You are indeed a lucky man, Tony. I envy you with your older woman education.
It pains me to block ladies. Women need to support each other.
maturin1919 comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I don't understand the imperative to do so. Shitty people come in all sexes and genders. I feel no need to support someone simply because they are a match between the legs or ears.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@Ms_McSteven So how long should we wait? It's much like the way congress always has money for war, but if we want single payer healthcare or anything else radical that costs anything it's always " We'll have to wait". I'm tired of waiting endlessly and hearing the same excuse. We haven't had a progressive nominee for the Dems since McGovern in '72. At this rate, I will be dead before we get another one. Sorry, I'm not biting on this lesser evil scare. Maybe we need another big crisis, like we had with the Great Depression, so the voters would not only wake up, but be ready to revolt. That's how we got the New Deal and other long overdue reforms that the capitalists would otherwise never have agreed to. Maybe it's time to let the system collapse so we can finally have revolution and fight these pricks for real in the streets. It's long overdue as far as I'm concerned and I am willing to die for it, even tho I have always been non-violent. That's one war I would approve of......
It pains me to block ladies. Women need to support each other.
maturin1919 comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I don't understand the imperative to do so. Shitty people come in all sexes and genders. I feel no need to support someone simply because they are a match between the legs or ears.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@Ms_McSteven Dammit, I really hope you are right, but right now I am still very pessimistic about that. I don't even think that them realizing it matters, because I think they do realize it, they just don't care about what the voters think if it goes against what their big donors from the rich and corporate class want. What they do care about is how to sell that agenda to the voters and make them think it is in their interest when it clearly isn't. As long as enough voters stay conned or stuck with voting for the two parties, neither party really has to change a damned thing about their shared agenda on all the really important issues that matter to the same big donors who fund both parties and give to both of them.
How do you debunk it when someone claims religion, no matter it's true or false' serves as an ...
maturin1919 comments on Jun 8, 2019:
You don't. Because it's true.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
You and irascible are right. It not only serves that purpose but also, as Karl Marx observed, it is the opiate of the masses. Meaning, that it gives them hope of better things and times ahead by taking their minds off their troubles in the present. In other words, same as LSD, allows them to drop out and numb themselves to being enslaved by capitalism. Religion also provides another benefit to the ruling classes. It brainwashes people into in believing that submission to authority is natural and part of being moral and good. That helps keep the masses from questioning authority and supporting revolution.
It pains me to block ladies. Women need to support each other.
maturin1919 comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I don't understand the imperative to do so. Shitty people come in all sexes and genders. I feel no need to support someone simply because they are a match between the legs or ears.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@Ms_McSteven I concede you have a point. Pols like Trump remind me of Michael Moore's old joke where he organized a campaign to replace a worthless member of congress with a fiscus plant, running the plant against him on the premise that the plant was probably smarter and more worthwhile for their district than the incumbent. I thought it was pretty clever, even tho I have my issues with Moore, and the campaign caused quite a sensation. Don't remember how it came out or ended. Frankly, I would rather have a stump or a fiscus plant rather than a corporate Dem, because, hey, we're already loaded with corporate Dems in DC, time to give plant life a chance..... And I'm not trying to depress you, but if all the Dems offer for a candidate in 2016 is that they are not Trump, they are going to lose again. I know it's cliche, but truer words are never spoken than "in politics, you can't beat something with nothing..." No matter how bad that something happens to be.
It pains me to block ladies. Women need to support each other.
maturin1919 comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I don't understand the imperative to do so. Shitty people come in all sexes and genders. I feel no need to support someone simply because they are a match between the legs or ears.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@Ms_McSteven I hear you, but I am tired of being ignored and sold out by the Dems. I have no apologies or sympathy for them losing to Trump and I voted Green for Jill Stein. As far as I'm concerned, the party leaders and establishment got the candidate they wanted for the nomination and then the result that I knew was inevitable and deserved in the general election. They have learned nothing from that and are determined to repeat it all again by shoving Biden down the throats of the Bernie supporters and others who support Warren as well. They shit on the progressives in the party and they will again get what they deserve, not that they really care about the outcome of the prez race as long as they keep true progressives out of the White House and in their place as marginalized members of congress. Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. That's how it went with The Great Depression.
It pains me to block ladies. Women need to support each other.
maturin1919 comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I don't understand the imperative to do so. Shitty people come in all sexes and genders. I feel no need to support someone simply because they are a match between the legs or ears.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@Ms_McSteven Damn straight. I partly blame Elizabeth Warren for Hillary's nomination. If she had stuck to her principles and supported Bernie instead of endorsing Hillary, Bernie might have gotten the nomination and the White House. But even tho she shared the same positions and had reason to be loyal to Bernie, she didn't, probably out of gender loyalty and her own future political ambition. She sold out her progressive policy positions that she shared with Bernie, which is why I now don't trust her that much compared to Bernie. She gets more corporate all the time, as well. I'm still making my mind up about AOC, but I have no doubt that if Warren became prez it would be a replay of Obama. Liberals thinking they had elected a progressive and instead getting another corporate sellout, warmonger, and friend of the rich. To a socialist like me, even tho I care about issues of race, gender, etc., all identity politics are just a distraction used by the ruling class and the two major parties to distract, divide, and conquer the lower classes while they continue to collude in reaping all the wealth and waging class war against all the lower classes while selling us out to the corporations and destroying the environment.
Happy Pride Peeps💓💓💓
kasmian comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I agree completely which is why, even if it is an unpopular opinion, I think being prideful of something you not only had no control over, but also makes you no worse or better than anyone around you is just dumb. You were born a certain way? Cool, embrace it. Otherwise be proud of your ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@kasmian This reminds me of a story from a former co-worker at an old job of mine. This old guy had worked at the state penitentiary as a counselor and he had gotten to know one of the inmates a bit who was a very proud black militant and Muslim who made no secret of how he felt all whites were evil and the enemy to him. I recognized the name of this inmate as the killer and rapist of a young girl that he had kidnapped, but that's incidental. The counselor was white and German-American and was also a descendant of Gen. Rommel, the Nazi tank commander from WWII who was involved in a plot to kill Hitler and committed suicide after the plot failed and Rommel was exposed, then given the choice of suicide or disgrace. Anyway, my co-worker was talking to the inmate and asked him, " Are you proud of being black?", to which the inmate replied, " You're damn right I am, so what?" The counselor then told him that he was proud of being white and German, as well as of who his ancestor was. The inmate said he could understand and respect that, to which the counselor replied, well now we're getting somewhere. They never became anything close to friends, but they were able to relate, respect, and even like each other a bit after that.
Not in a cats vocabulary🤣😂😅
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 8, 2019:
Very cute and true. Cats are so loveable and admirable in how they will do whatever they damn well want to whenever they want to. I think cat lovers envy and admire that in them. Hence, the expression about "trying to herd cats" as the idea of attempting something that's difficult if not ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@dalefvictor True, I forgot about that exception, usually only takes the sound of a can opener.
It pains me to block ladies. Women need to support each other.
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I guess I am different than you because I have blocked 16 people so far, both men and women as I believe in equal opportunity, and probably have been blocked by just as many, maybe more. I don't lose any sleep over either of those situations. I have strong opinions and I state them without mincing ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@Gareth I tip my figurative hat to you sir, you are indeed a super-blocker. I need to get busier, lol....
It pains me to block ladies. Women need to support each other.
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I guess I am different than you because I have blocked 16 people so far, both men and women as I believe in equal opportunity, and probably have been blocked by just as many, maybe more. I don't lose any sleep over either of those situations. I have strong opinions and I state them without mincing ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@Matias I blocked very few people the first year or so I was on here, but nowadays I am on here about every day, so I'm making up for lost time,lol...You've been on here about the same amount of time as me and need to pick up the pace, lol....
It pains me to block ladies. Women need to support each other.
maturin1919 comments on Jun 8, 2019:
I don't understand the imperative to do so. Shitty people come in all sexes and genders. I feel no need to support someone simply because they are a match between the legs or ears.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
I fully agree. As a progressive and socialist, I got so sick of all the liberal women who supported Hillary over Bernie in the 2016 primaries, even tho they agreed way more with Bernie's policies and knew he was a true progressive rather than a corrupt centrist like Hillary, but they supported her anyway out of gender solidarity and their intense desire to see a woman be prez. We all know how that worked out and it disgusted me. I will not blindly vote or make all my choices or judgements based on gender or gender solidarity. Character should always count more than gender.
I’m watching The Lobster on Netflix.
tinkercreek comments on Jun 7, 2019:
I thought it was GREAT - not so good for my (first) date, who was cringing and nearly cowering through it . . . yeah, also last date.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@273kelvin Yes I do! That is very funny and such an extreme, same as Woody giving Diane Keaton his copy of the book The Denial Of Death as soon as they begin dating. Not exactly what would be my or any other man's move at that point, or any other time in my case.
Joan Baez. [youtu.be]
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 8, 2019:
This is such an achingly beautiful, haunting personal song. It was her only real hit, and I sometimes sing it at karaoke. I like to genderbend sometimes and the song's key works perfectly for my baritone voice singing it a few octaves down from Baez. Crowds always seem to really relate to the song ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
@happyhiker1 You're welcome. It's my pleasure.
Does anyone else hate the phrase "I love you" ?
kasmian comments on Jun 8, 2019:
Sounds like you had some pretty shitty experiences... Best I can say is that compliments and saying you love someone is not something you say out of nowhere unless you have alternative intentions. Compliments are usually a way to show you appreciate something about someone and, if you love someone, ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
I agree. You seem to be treating these common expressions very harshly and that is probably based on bad experiences. I tend to think that most people who say I love you and give compliments say those things sincerely and are good hearted. I am cynical about a lot of things, but I do believe those particular things are true.
Happy Pride Peeps💓💓💓
Cutiebeauty comments on Jun 8, 2019:
Appearance is a choice... Imo... To a certain extent.... 😋
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
Agreed, to an extent, it is in the person's control. For example, to get tats or not. To wear makeup or not. How or whether to have facial hair. Type of haircut or hairstyle. But the basic stuff of body type and facial structure and attractiveness, no, not without cosmetic surgery that is not affordable to the average person, at least not in the US. And certainly not available to the poor. Also, how you dress affects appearance and that is mostly a choice and also a matter of awareness of how certain clothes look on you. Men are notoriously clueless about this unless they are gay, lol...
I’m watching The Lobster on Netflix.
tinkercreek comments on Jun 7, 2019:
I thought it was GREAT - not so good for my (first) date, who was cringing and nearly cowering through it . . . yeah, also last date.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 8, 2019:
You're like me, a bit of an odd bird, but in a good way. I remember back in the early 90s when I had a first date with a woman from a voice personal ad (remember those?) . We both wanted to see The Shawshank Redemption, showing that neither of us were mainstream or shallow, so we went, even tho few people would choose a movie like that for a first date or meeting. We both really enjoyed the film, but on the way into the movie she actually was honest and kind enough to tell me that she was not attracted to me after meeting me. If only most women were like that. I guess she must have sensed that I was safe and kind even if she was a 9, the only one I have ever met in person thru dating. We proceeded to have a really good friendship for two years before she moved away and then I met my wife about a year after that. I really enjoyed my time with her as I had someone to spend time doing things we both enjoyed. I continued to look for someone to date, but it sort of took some of the pressure off me to find a girlfriend, since all I was missing was the sex and romance. As for The Lobster, I actually saw that with my father when it came out and, tho it was very dark and strange, I enjoyed it and he sort of did too, which surprised me, even tho it was very dark. It was also kind of funny and was a smart satire on societal conventions and norms of dating and mating. I think my father liked that part of it because he was a thinker and enjoyed movies that were intellectual. I agree with you tho, I would not risk that as a first or early date movie. Too bad you don't live in my area. I would have had a different reaction to it and we could have had a great discussion about it.
Columbine High may be torn down. It inspires mass shooters.
bobwjr comments on Jun 7, 2019:
Sick
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 7, 2019:
But not surprising to me at all in the sick culture of the US.
R.
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 7, 2019:
Wow, that had to be such an experience! To me Lou Reed was always the man and I never got to see him live. In fact, he only played one Iowa concert in his life, and I was way too young at the time, back in the early 70s or so.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 7, 2019:
@FrostyJim Sounds about right, that may have been what I was referring to. I was in junior high, couldn't drive yet, no way I could have gone to that.
My father died today.
RRRR comments on Jun 7, 2019:
I'm so sorry for your losses. Growing up in Iowa, I realize where you are coming from. My siblings do not accept me because of my beliefs (freethinking and progressive politics). I have finally learned it is always going to be that way. Doesn't matter, I have created a new family through my ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 7, 2019:
You take the words right out of my mouth! I have said for a long time that my longtime friends have really replaced my family for most of my adult life and most people here in Iowa, where family and kids are everything and few people will trust and like you, besides my friends, if you don't bow to and buy into that. Being Agnostic, a hipster, childless by choice, a non-drinker, hating country music, and a socialist, you are familiar enough to see why I got very lucky to have met my late wife and how trying to date here in Iowa at my age is a fucking nightmare. No wonder I need a therapist, with that along with my late wife's dementia and death. I'm glad I have this site because where I live almost nobody but my friends and people on this site seem to get it and understand my situation. I am very much an outsider where I live. I really wish I had more strength or didn't need my friends so badly, or I would just leave my area for somewhere better for someone offbeat like me and start over, but I'm afraid that if I did that or tried LD dating for a while with someone and it didn't work out, that, like you with your family drama around your father's death, that it might do me in, at least mentally, if either LD dating or moving somewhere better for a better dating pool, didn't work out.
What do you look for in a man or a woman if you want a long term relationship, and whats more ...
Bobbyzen comments on Jun 6, 2019:
Neither looks, ambition nor money are the measure of a person. Are they kind? Do they treat all people with respect and honor them, regardless of class or color? We are inculcated with the value that the more people earn and own, the more worthy they are of respect. We’ve internalized these ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 7, 2019:
I totally agree with you, but then again I'm a socialist. I think people who thing like us about materialism and wealth mattering more than kindness are unfortunately a small minority in America where greed is good and people are judged by their wealth or lack of it as to their value as human beings.
There are points in your life where you make decisions.
COGITOERGOSUM comments on Jun 4, 2019:
Regrets, you have **a few**? You are lucky, my friend. I have **a lot**! But, please, forgive me for not sharing them publicly, 99% of them are just too personal/private for that.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 6, 2019:
@COGITOERGOSUM I guess you'll have to have enough optimism for both of us about the future girlfriend, since right now I have almost none.
Any advice?
MissKathleen comments on Jun 5, 2019:
Learn to be enough...alone. Get affection (not sex) from your friends and family...it’s okay to tell people you love that you need a good long hug. Humans need physical contact, so ask for it appropriately. (Most people who are sex addicts are really affection-starved, but they do not know...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 6, 2019:
@MissKathleen You are wrong. I am trying to find connection and use support from my friends. Your judgement of me is irrelevant to me and you are wrong about my attitude. I have been in counselling for a while with someone who has been practicing 30 years and I think she knows a bit more than you. I am tired of your continued criticism of me on the boards for a while now. How in the hell do you know me well enough or know enough about what I do in my personal life enough to assume that I am not working at being happy or adding connection to my life? You have a very arrogant attitude towards others. Enjoy the block.
What are some reasons you are afraid to commit?
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 6, 2019:
I can tell you, Jama, that you are very different than the women your age in my local area, even tho we are both in the Midwest. The women my age, about ten to twenty years older than you on Match, are almost all so damned family-oriented that they would ostracize you for a remark like yours about ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 6, 2019:
@GreenAtheist Ok then. I had always heard that Buffalo was considered upstate. I guess that's why my late wife was so cool and an atheist.
What are some reasons you are afraid to commit?
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 6, 2019:
I can tell you, Jama, that you are very different than the women your age in my local area, even tho we are both in the Midwest. The women my age, about ten to twenty years older than you on Match, are almost all so damned family-oriented that they would ostracize you for a remark like yours about ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 6, 2019:
@GreenAtheist My late wife was from upstate NY, Buffalo, to be precise, and she was a perfect match for me, so they're not all that way there. By the same token, I am very different than the usual backward, narrow-minded, uneducated Iowan.
What are some reasons you are afraid to commit?
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 6, 2019:
I can tell you, Jama, that you are very different than the women your age in my local area, even tho we are both in the Midwest. The women my age, about ten to twenty years older than you on Match, are almost all so damned family-oriented that they would ostracize you for a remark like yours about ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 6, 2019:
@Jama765 Once again, your statements are so different than the vast majority of women my age on Match in Iowa. They seem, in their profile essays, to be saying two things about family to the men on the site. One, they seem to be stiff-arming, like in football, the men to back off and give them plenty of space and time to enjoy and connect with their adult kids and grandkids rather than spend most of their free time with the men they meet from Match as a couple getting to know each other and nurturing the relationship. Maybe that's because most men on dating sites are too aggressive with women they meet and too selfish or demanding of these women about spending couple time alone instead of around the woman's family, I don't know. But they seem to be sending a clear signal in their profile essays that " My family does and always will come first, you will always be second or even less in my life and my time priorities" Which leaves guys like me who don't have kids, wondering why are they even on a dating site then. Second, they leave guys like me feeling like rather than seeking a man to date and spend a reasonable amount of their time as a couple getting to know each other alone and nurturing the relationship, as you say, during the first several dates or months after meeting, instead they give or seem to be sending the message that what they are really looking for on the dating site is an escort for all their family visits to their adult kids and grandkids, including visits to family with the man as soon as they begin dating so they can audition the man with their family to see if he likes kids and can get along with their adult kids, etc. No wonder I get about zero interest from these Midwest farmer's daughter types on Match in Iowa because the above appears to what they want and they are so damned family-oriented or, more likely, as they say in therapy, they are emeshed with their family in an unhealthy way. But that just seems to be a Midwest thing in states like Iowa and Indiana, that everyone has kids and family is everything. No wonder almost all the women I see on Match indicate in their profiles that they are only interested in dating men who have kids and like kids, even if the woman doesn't have any of her own or her kids are all grown and out of the home. It seems you just can't win in the dating game if you live in the Midwest and are childless by choice as well as a non-believing hipster who hates country music. We are so offbeat and there are so few of us. Strong, independent women who have and seek a healthy balance in their life of female friends, family, and a partner are like trying to find a unicorn, at least in the Midwest. They only exist in transplants who come from other parts of the country, like my late wife, who grew up in ...
There are points in your life where you make decisions.
COGITOERGOSUM comments on Jun 4, 2019:
Regrets, you have **a few**? You are lucky, my friend. I have **a lot**! But, please, forgive me for not sharing them publicly, 99% of them are just too personal/private for that.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 6, 2019:
@COGITOERGOSUM Much as I would enjoy meeting you, I don't think it will happen. I am estranged from my siblings, for good and healthy reasons. My brother's wife is a very sweet and nice woman, but my brother is not. He really doesn't want a relationship with me and hasn't for many years, even tho we get along ok when we have seen each other such as visits to my father when we were both present or at my mother's funeral, etc. But over the years I got tired of his pretending to want contact when in reality it was just to please my father and keep up appearances. I demand that my relationships with friends and family are either going to be "clean", as they say in therapy, and authentic or not continue. If they aren't then they aren't good for me or worth my time and effort.
Any advice?
MissKathleen comments on Jun 5, 2019:
Learn to be enough...alone. Get affection (not sex) from your friends and family...it’s okay to tell people you love that you need a good long hug. Humans need physical contact, so ask for it appropriately. (Most people who are sex addicts are really affection-starved, but they do not know...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 5, 2019:
That sounds nice and would work for most people. But my parents are now both dead, I am estranged, for good and healthy reasons, from my siblings, have no children, nieces or nephews around (those that I do have live far away and are are now in their 20s) and my friends are not really affectionate, at least not at our current age. And my friends are all married BTW. I am really not interested in volunteering anywhere. So what would you have me do?
Today would have been our 15th wedding anniversary.
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 5, 2019:
He looks like a cute man with a good sense of humor.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 5, 2019:
@IrishTxJudy That is really saying something positive about him that they adopted him that way. Smart kids.
I had an experience this weekend that made me consider that there may be a God and he must hate me.
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 5, 2019:
I have only had food poisoning once, but it was a ghastly experience where I feared I might die, but also felt like it might be better than what I was experiencing. Got some bad spaggetti and meatballs from a grocery store deli that had been at room temp for too long. I came back there after I was ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 5, 2019:
@greyeyed123 Yeah, doctors and food places get very nervous once they hear the word lawsuit. In reality, about the only way most of us can make them pay is to go to the city health inspection folks and complain to them, hopefully getting them sanctioned or shut down at least for a while.
I had an experience this weekend that made me consider that there may be a God and he must hate me.
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 5, 2019:
I have only had food poisoning once, but it was a ghastly experience where I feared I might die, but also felt like it might be better than what I was experiencing. Got some bad spaggetti and meatballs from a grocery store deli that had been at room temp for too long. I came back there after I was ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 5, 2019:
@greyeyed123 I hear you. I guess I was younger and more forgiving back then. I had a young co-worker who got sick from some bad chicken at a local Hawaiian place a few years back and she damn near died. Her kidneys shut down, she had to be airlifted to the state uni hospital because it had the best trauma unit in the state, and was on dialysis for a while. The doctors said the only reason she lived was that she was really young and had always eaten such a healthy diet. Her family tried to sue the resturarant, but they denied that it was from their place even tho she had kept the receipt, because they said it could have been something else she ate that day. You can bet that I, her, her family, and her co-workers put out the word about that place, tho it's still in business from what I can see.
Today would have been our 15th wedding anniversary.
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 5, 2019:
He looks like a cute man with a good sense of humor.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 5, 2019:
@IrishTxJudy See? My radar is still pretty good, at least when it comes to men. I can also still spot an asshole really quick in person or in a photo just by looking at them.
Any advice?
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 5, 2019:
Would like to, but can't help you. I have never had the looks and confidence, unlike you, to have women often and easily attracted to me, so I haven't dated that much in my life. Not that much before my late wife and not at all in the couple years since. I think my standards have always been ok, but...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 5, 2019:
@EyesThatSmile Now that statement is something I can relate to. I really only had one LTR, and that was with my late wife. So after I was widowed, I was still somewhat wary and apprehensive about online dating after being out of the game for so long, but my confidence was actually pretty good a couple years ago because I knew my track record with relationships was superior to most of the divorced folks out there on dating sites. Fast forward two years, and now my confidence is really low as well as being really discouraged about ever finding anyone compatible. Because of all the rejection and realizing over time how crucial looks are in the early part of online dating as well as how few hipster women seem to be on there in my area. Nowadays I feel like I have only two bad choices to select from. One, settle for being alone and give up. Two, start messaging only women whose profiles seem compatible on their interests and personalities, but whose photos do not seem attractive at all to me and hope that after meeting them in person and spending time with them, I will find them physically attractive. The pitfall of the latter is I think it's unfair to lead them on that way as well as to lie to myself about where they stand with me. Few things are more miserable than meeting someone new where one or both of the people is hoping for more than the friendzone and then it ends up there despite how much they both have in common otherwise because there is just not mutual physical attraction. I don't want to be a hypocrite either. Last summer I met a woman thru Match that I did find physically attractive from the first time I saw her photos and that was confirmed when we first met. We met two more times and then she stood me up for what would have been the fourth time. I think her no show that time was mostly a legit mistake and partly an unconscious way to push me away. I pushed her in an e-mail chat to say if she was physically attracted to me after admitting that I was to her. She replied that she had never been physically attracted to me from the beginning, but she met me anyway and was still willing to see me as a friend. I told her no thanks and was actually quite angry that she had kept this to herself, tho in retrospect, I can see why she did out of fear that men in general might react violently or harrass her for rejecting them that way. Plus, before that I hadn't said that I was physically attracted to her or made any moves that way or asked her about it. So she could say that she had no reason to tell me I was already friendzoned.I don't want to go thru that kind of shit again being on the other end of it either if I already know from the photos before I even message someone that it's pretty unlikely I will be attracted to them physically.
My father died today.
Jolanta comments on Jun 2, 2019:
I hope you have some siblings. I have several friends who do not have any children by choice and they are very happy with their decisions. Myself I have two grown up ones but neither one of them wants any children of their own and I am happy about it. Why anybody would want to bring children into...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 5, 2019:
@Jolanta I am most certainly not an optimist about most things and that probably works against me in the dating game. I am very cynical about how the world really works and what can be expected of most people. But I am also still pretty romantic about what a relationship can be with a compatible partner and how I would like to treat a woman. Maybe those last parts are where I fit your type that is looking for too much in a relationship. Maybe, maybe not. I have long ago wised up that real life is not like the movies where women always fall for the nice guy at the end even if he's not as attractive physically as the bad boy, etc. Online dating, as well as real life dating before the internet, has taught me plenty about how looks matter way more than character in the early part of attraction, no matter how much in the movies and online women complain about how there aren't nice guys, most men are just after sex, lie, play games, etc. Of course they want a nice guy with good character, but only if he is at least a 7. Of course, as Sticks, says, it goes both ways..........
There are points in your life where you make decisions.
COGITOERGOSUM comments on Jun 4, 2019:
Regrets, you have **a few**? You are lucky, my friend. I have **a lot**! But, please, forgive me for not sharing them publicly, 99% of them are just too personal/private for that.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 5, 2019:
@COGITOERGOSUM I have visited there twice, long before the hurricanes that destroyed much there, and it already seemed like a fairly rough place to live, except for the well off, like him. I don't think he will ever come back to the states to live, even after he retires, if for nothing else than his wife would not want to live in the continental US. She grew up in Haiti.
I look forward to the day when non-believers are less preoccupied with their lack of faith than ...
Pamscwf1 comments on Jun 5, 2019:
Unfortunately, they believe it's a core part of their self image. They make it an aspect of their identity. I suppose some non-believers can do the same.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 5, 2019:
It's actually a small part of my self-image. My non-belief is usually way more important to other people who are believers than it is to me. I am fairly apathetic to others believing and their beliefs if they are willing to respect and tolerate me. Now that I am not working anymore, it almost never comes up, except in the dating game, where most believers are unwilling to accept me for dating due to that issue, among others. But Iowa is sort of in the Bible belt, so I am somewhat used to that.
There are points in your life where you make decisions.
COGITOERGOSUM comments on Jun 4, 2019:
Regrets, you have **a few**? You are lucky, my friend. I have **a lot**! But, please, forgive me for not sharing them publicly, 99% of them are just too personal/private for that.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 5, 2019:
@COGITOERGOSUM Yes, he lives in the hills above the capital city. Interestingly, he is your age and a gringo, grew up here in Iowa and has lived in PR since the early 90s.
Absolutely
indirect76 comments on Jun 5, 2019:
My version: Don’t swim across an ocean for someone that won’t step over a puddle for you.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 5, 2019:
Well said. I gave up being codependent long ago...
There are points in your life where you make decisions.
COGITOERGOSUM comments on Jun 4, 2019:
Regrets, you have **a few**? You are lucky, my friend. I have **a lot**! But, please, forgive me for not sharing them publicly, 99% of them are just too personal/private for that.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 5, 2019:
@COGITOERGOSUM Thanks. I've been looking for almost two years now and never found anyone that I ended up seeing more than 3 times as a potential girlfriend. My brother lives in San Juan, but I am estranged from all my siblings, for the better in my case.
My father died today.
Jolanta comments on Jun 2, 2019:
I hope you have some siblings. I have several friends who do not have any children by choice and they are very happy with their decisions. Myself I have two grown up ones but neither one of them wants any children of their own and I am happy about it. Why anybody would want to bring children into...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 5, 2019:
@Jolanta Yes, I have heard of the studies on happiness of married men and women. Yes, I understand why many women who are divorced and widowed no longer want another relationship, but if so, what are they doing on paid dating sites if they feel that way? Or are you just talking about those groups of women in general? If they feel that way, they shouldn't be on those sites. I am certainly not looking for a crutch and I already have friends. I want more than that with someone. I think I understand you, I just don't agree.
There are points in your life where you make decisions.
COGITOERGOSUM comments on Jun 4, 2019:
Regrets, you have **a few**? You are lucky, my friend. I have **a lot**! But, please, forgive me for not sharing them publicly, 99% of them are just too personal/private for that.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 4, 2019:
Well said. I have some too that I will never share on these boards. We all deserve some secrets and privacy. I guess that's why I share very little on FB, as I desire more privacy, am less of an exhibitionist, and am more modest and less narcissistic than most of those younger than me. My offline friends are who I share those things with because they know me better, are trustworthy to keep confidences, and will not judge me as harshly as FB. I know they will not reject or abandon me either for sharing those things.
There are points in your life where you make decisions.
TomMcGiverin comments on Jun 4, 2019:
We are all different Robert, so it's hard to judge someone else's decision on a situation such as yours back then. I can certainly relate. After I had already been dating my late wife for a couple years, she and I learned that her mother had dementia and my wife had already known or maybe suspected ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 4, 2019:
@RobertFoley I totally agree. Few people who haven't been there understand this.
My father died today.
Jolanta comments on Jun 2, 2019:
I hope you have some siblings. I have several friends who do not have any children by choice and they are very happy with their decisions. Myself I have two grown up ones but neither one of them wants any children of their own and I am happy about it. Why anybody would want to bring children into...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 4, 2019:
@Jolanta If marriage or an LTR partnership don't involve being each other's best friend and also looking after them or caring for them when they are sick-because that often begins to happen at least some of the time after you get to my age (whether you are male or female), then what are relationships supposed to be then at my age? Just about sex, some companionship and a business relationship?
Why do you use agnostic.com?
bobwjr comments on Jun 3, 2019:
It's the people here good people don't always find that and the women wow
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 4, 2019:
@Heidi68 I am a fan of Morrissey's music, at least most of it. Not so much a fan of the man himself these days. As Moz would say, he really likes animals, just not very many humans. I can agree and relate, Heidi.
It looks like I have messed up yet again.
Ms_McSteven comments on Jun 2, 2019:
The description of your personal dilemma is too vague for me to comment on, so I'll just answer your other questions. I joined last December with the priority of making local friends to hang out with in the real world. A secondary reason was to see if I was ready, willing, and open to the ...
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 4, 2019:
@HomeAloneSunday I respect your brutal honesty and integrity, we are alike in those respects and it often makes life hard and lonely. I figured out a long time ago that I was not cut out to be a parent, at least not a good one, and I am still glad I made that choice. I won't be fake or lie to people either, same as you, even tho I do have some loneliness. You may be undatable, I can't know that one way or the other, only you can. But I still think you seem like a very cool and rare individual. If you lived in my area, I would want to get to know you and be a friend. BTW, I drove a school bus too for several years, until I retired over a year ago.
There are points in your life where you make decisions.
RedneckProfessor comments on Jun 4, 2019:
If you think living without regrets is hard, try living with them.
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 4, 2019:
Well said dude.....
Why do you use agnostic.com?
bobwjr comments on Jun 3, 2019:
It's the people here good people don't always find that and the women wow
TomMcGiverin replies on Jun 4, 2019:
@Gypsy494 I get your point and I have even personally known people that LD has worked for, including a woman that was a very close friend of my late wife. She met her hubby online from Iowa while he was living in the UK. It did work out in their case. But I have also known myself for 60 years now and I know what I can emotionally handle, both with the risk of trying LD dating and having it fail, as well as the risk of moving far away (and then having to cope with that without my friends around) and having that fail. I don't think I could handle the emotional impact of either, esp. the latter, and I am not willing to risk my mental health on either. Remember that my friends are all I've got. I don't have family that I can lean on emotionally. If a woman from Agnostic said at the beginning that she was willing to move to Iowa for me after dating LD, I would be open to that. But let's be honest, who is going to move to my area for a relationship if they already live on either coast and/or in an area that is much more hip, liberal and enjoyable than Des Moines Iowa, esp. with the winters? I have asked that ? with several women from this site and none of them, even the ones living in the Midwest already, like Chicago and Minneapolis, said they would be willing or interested in moving to my area for a relationship with a partner. And I don't blame them at all for that. It's not worth the risk on their part to move to an area that offers much less than their own area and they don't know anyone but you, esp. if the relationship doesn't work out. Moving somewhere foreign (where you know almost nobody) is emotionally hard, esp. when you are older. Starting over there if the relationship doesn't work out or, worse, if you are widowed again soon, would be devastating for me and probably for others as well if they really don't have any friends there besides their partner. It's not as easy as it sounds.

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Agnostic, Atheist, Humanist, Secularist, Freethinker, Spiritual
Open to meeting women
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