TomMcGiverin's Profile

I really don't get it.

Lorajay comments on Apr 16, 2019:

Manipulation of the ego has always been very effective. People never want to feel like their bad luck is there fault. When it's obvious to a person that they are not special they readily accept the race issue so that they can hold on to some Glimmer of Pride.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@OwlInASack Thank you. LBJ, in some ways, was a great prez as he passed Medicare and Medicaid, along with all the Great Society anti-poverty programs. Also the Peace Corps (with JFK) and VISTA programs, the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. He also was pretty sharp for a guy born dirt poor in the hill country of east Texas who went to the state's teacher college instead of an Ivy League college like most of his political peers. If it weren't for Vietnam, he would be seen as one of the great American presidents.

I really don't get it.

Moravian comments on Apr 16, 2019:

And the politicians are promoting it to their advantage. Nationalism or "populism" as it is being called now is very damaging.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

Yeah, MAGA never fooled me. Should have had the guts to call a spade a spade and say it was Make America White Again, but wouldn't have sounded so high-minded and patriotic. All about the advertising angles.

I really don't get it.

Lorajay comments on Apr 16, 2019:

Manipulation of the ego has always been very effective. People never want to feel like their bad luck is there fault. When it's obvious to a person that they are not special they readily accept the race issue so that they can hold on to some Glimmer of Pride.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

Yup, that is why poor white trash, so to speak and rednecks fall for racism and all the Trump crap because it appeals to their anger and white pride so they can feel that glimmer of hope and pride that they are still better than others who are black or brown. As former president LBJ once said, "If you can make the trashiest poor white man feel that he is still better than the best black man, he won't notice while you are picking his pockets". Truer words were never spoken......LBJ said that back in the 60s and it's just as true today....

What is the proper wait time etiquette when hooking up with someone who your friend likes?

LiterateHiker comments on Apr 15, 2019:

Why not ask the woman if she wants to meet you for coffee or a meal? She can say yes or no.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@McWalsoft I never had kids, by choice, so we have that in common, as well as the interests in sports, politics, news, etc., but we obviously hang with very different crowds, probably related to our age difference. But I still think we are a world apart on attitudes towards women. I do give you props for never cheating on anyone, that's better than most men out there, but that may be related more to how you don't really do relationships on a regular basis either. As far as the drunk girls and those on the rebound tho, have to disagree with you on whether they really are that independent, strong, wanting to have fun and enjoy life responsibly or whether that is just a self-serving rationalization on your part to justify you getting what you want. I hope that you are able to get what you are after without causing hurt to anyone, including yourself, but I won't be surprised if that happens. Hope you don't end up, like you say, on the news or in jail someday for a sexual assault charge. My other advice is, like the Trojan commercial, Always Wear Your Life Jacket......Also, while you're at it, since you aren't interested in having kids, a vasectomy might not be a bad idea either.......

What is the proper wait time etiquette when hooking up with someone who your friend likes?

LiterateHiker comments on Apr 15, 2019:

Why not ask the woman if she wants to meet you for coffee or a meal? She can say yes or no.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@McWalsoft I think we live in very different, but parallel worlds, man......I respect that you are honest and open about what you want and who you are. That's all I can really ask of others in dialoguing. After reading the rest of the thread, I have to say that, for me, you and I could still never be friends because, even tho it looks like you are putting your friendship with Joey first over the fling, I am just too different in my values about women to be ok with your dealings with women and being such a player. I would not be comfortable with a friend that rolled that way and you would not with someone as old school and moralistic as me. Many years ago I heard a guy your age talk about what you are looking for with this woman. He used the term "sport fuck". This was back in the late 80s. Another guy in the discussion called him out on it and said, "Hey man, if I ever heard you say that about having had a sport fuck with my sister, I'd punch you in the fucking mouth!". I get your point about having heard that she wanted that, but I hope you get my point about respecting women in general and maybe giving her a break since she is on the rebound and may not be making good decisions right now. Would you take advantage of a drunk woman at a bar that was too drunk to consent? My guess would be "yes". See the similarity?

Are you happy?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 15, 2019:

No, I'm not. I'm actually worse than when I was watching my late wife suffer and die because back then I at least had some hope that I would meet someone else later and had more support in my life than now from friends. Now that I've been widowed two years and been alone for that long, my friends ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@BeeHappy Thank you Bonnie. You can always message me if you like. I guess that's why, personally, I refrain from offering advice to others on Agnostic about mental health issues that I am not experienced in or that are very complicated. I am afraid of speaking in ignorance to others, even with the best intentions, because I know how that feels on the receiving end.

Are you happy?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 15, 2019:

No, I'm not. I'm actually worse than when I was watching my late wife suffer and die because back then I at least had some hope that I would meet someone else later and had more support in my life than now from friends. Now that I've been widowed two years and been alone for that long, my friends ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@BeeHappy With all due respect, I am not still grieving the loss. My wife lost her personality and most of her cognitive functioning about three years before she died. I began my grieving back then as well as also beginning to emotionally withdraw from her for my own protection. I was doing much better two years ago and had already finished most of my grieving when she died. My depression is about all the rejection in the dating scene and my loss of hope about ever having a partner again. Unless you have lost a spouse to dementia, which is a very different process than other terminal diseases, you don't understand my experience. I have been ready to date for some time. The problem is few will give me a chance and I don't have enough support and socialization in my life. So the rejection in the dating scene is overwhelming. It has nothing to do with unfinished grieving. BTW, my therapist agrees with this and has been working with me since 2015. She also lost an older sister to dementia and has been in practice 30 years, so I think she knows a bit more. So yes, Bonnie, I may be too depressed by now to not turn off women in person, but I was not that way before I started getting rejected so much over the last 18 months and it is not related to grief. It is related to rejection, isolation, and lack of hope. Or maybe not. Two weeks ago I met a woman at a stage play and chatted with her afterwards about the play. I looked her up on FB and sent her a message thanking her for the chat and that I was glad to meet her. She sent me a friend request and we chatted some more, discovering that she was a little too young for me and that she wasn't open to dating anybody at this time, but wanted to be friends. So maybe you are just assuming too much about me.

Are you happy?

Ron_R comments on Apr 15, 2019:

A take on John Lennon's quote perhaps? “When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down 'happy'. They told me I didn't understand the assignment, and I told them they ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

Lennon was one of my cultural heroes and role models. Working Class Hero is my anthem....

Are you happy?

josh_is_exciting comments on Apr 15, 2019:

Ebb and flow. Many people ask "how're you doing?", it's interesting to see how different people respond when you genuinely open up and reveal difficulties you're dealing with. I'm doing pretty well right now, could be better, could be worse. How are you? :) I knew a guy once, he really ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

He's pretty fucking rare. With almost everyone, it's a mere formality of politeness, like How's the weather. Few people are really genuine and caring to most of those they are familiar with.

If you have a wonderful partner......🤗😘

mrveggieman187 comments on Apr 15, 2019:

People like that are non existent. That's why men take the red pill and become MGTOW.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

They are not non-existent. I was married to one. My problem now is finding another one that's available and wants me. Widowed and two years alone, 18 months on Match, no luck. I may die alone or end up depressed enough to kill myself someday, but I won't take your red pill route. I feel no need to reject women as a whole, even tho the vast majority seem to reject me.

I came across something on a dating site that touched me.

Tinocca comments on Apr 15, 2019:

If only everyone felt like that and acted accordingly. That would be nice.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Tinocca I try it, but it gets me nowhere... I'm getting pretty pessimistic about how many other people out there ever try this. Seems like everybody is very closed, critical, and totally selfish about the online dating process..... Why would most people try this if being the other way, punishing and rejecting, works for them? Out of the kindness of their hearts? I think that is a little naive. It seems like nowadays, if you have the looks, like a 7 or above, you can get what and who you want in the online dating game without being kind, so that's why I get what I get from women. And yes, we all know it goes both ways. I get so fucking sick of having to add that so nobody rides in to be a troll and bash me for saying the rest of it.

I came across something on a dating site that touched me.

Tinocca comments on Apr 15, 2019:

If only everyone felt like that and acted accordingly. That would be nice.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

But very few do. As I said above, most people use learning about your past only to vet you and decide whether to reject you or stay interested in being involved with you. All about self-protection and buying the perfect new shiny toy they are shopping for. Sorry if that sounds cynical, but that's how it seems these days.

Good Lord. This group represents Nothing as its name suggests. Yikes.

Marcie1974 comments on Apr 15, 2019:

This group specifically? How so? Some comments refer to agnostic.com as a whole, while it touts itself as a dating site, I consider it more of a Facebook type place for agnostic/atheist folks. It just doesn’t have the numbers for dating yet

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Marcie1974 Bigger cities help, but not always. The Des Moines metro area is about 650K, but not nearly as progressive and hip as the Twin Cities. There just are not that many non-believer hipster women available my age in my area. I have no doubt if I lived in Minneapolis or Chicago I could find compatible women to date much more easily than where I live, but I'm not moving or dating LD. Guess I'm just doomed to being alone. Don't have the guts to risk the disappointment of trying LD dating and having it fail, also don;t have the energy for it. Can't risk moving because I need my friends too much since my family is no support to me.

Useless Advice on Dating Lately, some have posted about their fatigue and frustrations of being ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 15, 2019:

Problem is my friends don't have any parties and neither do the groups I attend, so I won't meet anyone compatible that way.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Deiter I'm fully aware of how bleak, but I can't seem to get myself to suspend disbelief.....As my wife was dying and I started to think sometimes about dating again, I never thought it would go this long without actually meeting someone and starting to go out on some real dates instead of just a series of coffee meetings that went really nowhere......It's like two years of job-seeking leading to six interviews and no job, just a couple connections that led to strictly friendzone relationships that lasted for a few months, the equivalent of short-term non-paying internships in the job world.

Good Lord. This group represents Nothing as its name suggests. Yikes.

Marcie1974 comments on Apr 15, 2019:

This group specifically? How so? Some comments refer to agnostic.com as a whole, while it touts itself as a dating site, I consider it more of a Facebook type place for agnostic/atheist folks. It just doesn’t have the numbers for dating yet

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Marcie1974 Good for you. I don't have that luxury offline.

Good Lord. This group represents Nothing as its name suggests. Yikes.

Marcie1974 comments on Apr 15, 2019:

This group specifically? How so? Some comments refer to agnostic.com as a whole, while it touts itself as a dating site, I consider it more of a Facebook type place for agnostic/atheist folks. It just doesn’t have the numbers for dating yet

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Marcie1974 Agree. I've made plenty of friends here and have several offline, but I'd really like to date again and not be sitting on the sidelines almost all the time like I am with Match......

For this is all a dream we dreamed one afternoon long ago... [youtu.be]

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 12, 2019:

This has always been my favorite Dead song. The link doesn't work. The video won't play.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Lutherzme Nope, still says video unavailable.

Good Lord. This group represents Nothing as its name suggests. Yikes.

Marcie1974 comments on Apr 15, 2019:

This group specifically? How so? Some comments refer to agnostic.com as a whole, while it touts itself as a dating site, I consider it more of a Facebook type place for agnostic/atheist folks. It just doesn’t have the numbers for dating yet

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

"Doesn't have the numbers yet", and, at least in my area, I'm afraid it never will......

Daniel Ellsberg On Assange Arrest: The Beginning of the End For Press Freedom

WilliamCharles comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I think too many responding don't get it. It doesn't matter if he's a jerk. It doesn't matter if outing Hillary and the DNC gives you a sad. The help in hacking charges are just that and have yet to be established. It's the government that needs to be transparent. Next you'll be clamoring for a ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

Some people haven't read 1984 or wouldn't recognize it happening right in front of them.

"It's the same big club they use to beat you over the head all day long when they tell you what to...

mongo1977 comments on Apr 14, 2019:

It's comically embarrassing that liberals believe academics and Hollywood elites really do care about them.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

Some do care, some don't. Notable ones who do care include Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon.

According to statistics, the average person over 18 consumes 3 alcoholic drinks a week.

Triphid comments on Apr 14, 2019:

Jeez they mustn't have interviewed me then, I haven't had anything alcoholic for years now.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@EyesThatSmile That stat about 30% of adults being non-drinkers doesn't match at all with my experience with women's profiles on Match, where only about 5% or less list themselves as non-drinkers on their profile checklist of lifestyle traits. That supports my guess that women who are recovering alcoholics do not end up using paid dating sites to find men to date, instead, they meet them thru the AA program and program social events. That makes total sense to me, because all the recovering alcoholics I've known told me they stay out of bars and also try to avoid situations with lots of social drinking, esp. early in their recovery. That's why they prefer to go to AA social events, which are dry, of course. Of course, there's no way to prove this, but it sure would explain it. And I am too honest to start going to AA meetings and faking it, tho there are probably men who do to find women to date.

According to statistics, the average person over 18 consumes 3 alcoholic drinks a week.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 14, 2019:

I haven't drank alcohol since the mid 1990s, and no, it's not because I'm a recovering alcoholic. So my answer would be no. I have found that in online dating my non-drinking is probably one of the biggest dealbreakers I run into with women, on their part, not mine. Almost all the women's profiles ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 14, 2019:

@A2Jennifer They sure as hell do. I don't believe in lying on my profile, but I may follow suit with you. I just began working with a dating and relationship coach and when we get to revising my dating profile, we may go with that switch, maybe not. In my current profile on Match, not on Agnostic, I mention in my essay that my late wife was a social drinker and we were fine on that issue, even went to wineries together. But that disclaimer either isn't believed by the women who see it or it's irrelevant to them because they want a man who drinks socially so he will fit in with them, their friends, and the woman's family, who all drink at least socially. Like hiring for a job, what they really care about is find a man who is a "fit" for their family and social circle, as well as a man who will drink with them and share the woman's love of wine or alcohol for social drinking. To many women, I think that to them, social drinking is like hiking is for Literate Hiker, they want someone who will join them in what for them is an important part of their social life, same as hiking is for LR's rec life. I think this rigid checklist requirement that the vast majority of women I run across have is sad, but there's nothing I can do but either lie or keep getting rejected on this, if not on something else.

Remember when students put flowers on the end of rifles?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 14, 2019:

Would have but I was just a bit too young then.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 14, 2019:

@Heidi68 Saw your profile. You still seem like an old hippie at heart, just like my late wife.

I tell people "oh I'm open to the idea of a relationship I'm not closed off or letting my past ...

LadyAlyxandrea comments on Apr 14, 2019:

He's mighty friendly, comes over to my office at least 6 or 7 times through the night and chats. Showed me his pics of his marine uniforms (I believe if men were birds this prominent display of honorable and respected attire is the equivalent of plumege? Surely a sign of at least interest) But ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 14, 2019:

@LadyAlyxandrea Speaking of tired, if you snooze now and let this rare specimen of a man who is not the typical uncompatible Kansas man slip away, you will be kicking yourself later while fully rested when you are open to a relationship and there appear to be nothing left but Trump supporters and Bible thumpers....

I tell people "oh I'm open to the idea of a relationship I'm not closed off or letting my past ...

LadyAlyxandrea comments on Apr 14, 2019:

He's mighty friendly, comes over to my office at least 6 or 7 times through the night and chats. Showed me his pics of his marine uniforms (I believe if men were birds this prominent display of honorable and respected attire is the equivalent of plumege? Surely a sign of at least interest) But ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 14, 2019:

Then why aren't you making the jump? Only you know the answer to that ?

Hi all.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 12, 2019:

My reasons for opposing the death penalty are not related to rehabilitation at all, altho I do think it is admirable when a murderer does change, turn their life around, and devote themselves to helping others in prison as a way of making up for what they did. But my reasons, if it's not off-topic, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 14, 2019:

@Amisja Thank you, I get lucky once in a while. I stole part of my argument from the lyrics of Elvis Costello's song Let Him Dangle, a song against the death penalty.

I am so emotionally raw.

SKH78 comments on Apr 13, 2019:

It takes a lot of time to find someone. It is the pits, but that is life. Good friends and good intimate partners are difficult to find. Keep on trying and eventually you will find someone who is compatible with you.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

No offense, but nowadays those just seem like nice words, " Keep on trying and.." I don't have any hope.

But Magic is no instrument.

aahouck49 comments on Apr 13, 2019:

Deiter add to that: if I have to hear what is your "bucket list"one more time I may go medieval on somebody! Yes my family had to same thing happen, and my niece and nephew are on their parents side of worshiping money and I just tell them please do not do that but they are not listening to auntie ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

My family has always valued money and appearances over heart and relationships, so that is why I have no contact with my siblings and little with my parents until they got old and sick, then they began to be more respectful and accepting of me, because with their changes in age and health they then needed me more. I then became more involved with them and the relationships improved, because the balance of power and need, so to speak, had shifted. But my siblings have not changed, so we remain estranged. That is why my friends have replaced my siblings and been my real family and support for my whole adult life.

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

dare2dream comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I can relate! I too am a democratic socialist, secular humanist, futurist, and an idealist. I was widowed at 65 and thrown out into the obscure wilderness of the dating world without a playbook or compass and not knowing in which direction to go. I agree with your thoughts on politics and ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@dare2dream For me, the in person kind of meeting women is probably not going to work. I don't have the confidence or skills anymore to approach women in person. Don't have any friends that could help me as matchmaker, except one friend who won't do it. And all of the interest groups that I already attend do not have any compatible women for me as far as age, being single, and any cultural things in common (being non-religious, liberal, disliking country music, not being very family-oriented, etc.). I need a big dating pool to have any chance of meeting the small number of women in my area that are my age and fellow hipsters and non-conformists.

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

dare2dream comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I can relate! I too am a democratic socialist, secular humanist, futurist, and an idealist. I was widowed at 65 and thrown out into the obscure wilderness of the dating world without a playbook or compass and not knowing in which direction to go. I agree with your thoughts on politics and ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@dare2dream I have joined a local Meetup group and am going to hear a band tonite with some members of it and maybe dance. Hopefully I can enjoy some support and encouragement from the group's meetings and informal social events like tonite. Maybe also make a friend or two that I can share phone support with and meet some for coffee or a meal between group meetings. The group is for singles of all types, tho it's called Dating After Divorce, and is open to widowed like me. The vast majority of them are divorced, female, and way younger than me. Also almost all of them are Christian too. So, never going to find anyone to date there out of the 40-50 people that regularly show up at the group. The group is run and founded by a dating and relationship coach. I am going to work with her as a client for a month or two and see if she can help me some. My friends are all married and they either don't get it as far as the dating struggles and/or don't want to hear about it very much. So I need the support of this group. As far as widows, I must disagree somewhat with you. My experience on Match with widows is not that they are unkind or as closed or defensive as many divorced women. My experience with the widowed women is that they do usually wait quite a while after the death to start dating again and they get pretty comfortable with being on their own. So they seem more ambivalent about dating than the divorced women. I have chatted with several of them thru Match and then they decide to not meet with me or drop off the dating site, saying that after chatting with me and other men they don't think they are ready to date yet. Maybe those women do remain married to their dead spouse, Go figure... I may try Our Time after my Match membership runs out, because even tho Match has a deeper pool than Our Time, I am starting to see that as I get older Match is beginning to run short of women who are old enough for me and can't come up with enough new matches for me that are my age.

The face that deserves a boot will be putting his in yours.

brentan comments on Apr 13, 2019:

How do we deal with the accusation that he put many lives at risk by his disclosures? Can it be ignored? I think people view what he did as a 'mixed bag' and conclude that he did more good than harm. We could trust these details to be untangled in court if we could trust the courts to do it outside ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@WilliamCharles It will now be " How many fingers, Julian..".

The face that deserves a boot will be putting his in yours.

brentan comments on Apr 13, 2019:

How do we deal with the accusation that he put many lives at risk by his disclosures? Can it be ignored? I think people view what he did as a 'mixed bag' and conclude that he did more good than harm. We could trust these details to be untangled in court if we could trust the courts to do it outside ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@WilliamCharles Damn right. I know he won't get a fair trial and I doubt it will even be a public trial. Also, like with Bradley Manning, the corporate media will probably ignore it unless it can be used to make him look bad. If the trial is public and his defense is allowed to present evidence about what he exposed, you can bet the media will avoid mentioning any of that in coverage. I doubt the court will allow any evidence about what Assange uncovered.

Hello! Welcome to spinter - spring/winter - or winring?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I know this is off-topic, but it's too bad we have only handful of members in this group that still actually live in Iowa. It would be nice to have a meetup sometime in Des Moines, but I'm not holding my breath....

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@Donna_I Don't know right now. Feel free to message me about this instead.

Hello! Welcome to spinter - spring/winter - or winring?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I know this is off-topic, but it's too bad we have only handful of members in this group that still actually live in Iowa. It would be nice to have a meetup sometime in Des Moines, but I'm not holding my breath....

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@Donna_I Everybody eats. Why not get together for a lunch some weekend at a modest to medium-priced restaurant?

Religious People On Dating Websites Are All Like...

KKGator comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I had to Google Joyce Meyer. I could have gone the rest of my life without knowing who she is, and I would have been completely content in my ignorance of her existence.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@Paul4747 Always loved that the Church Lady on SNL was played by a gay man, how ironic...

Having a sad today.

CarolinaGirl60 comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I tried talking to a few yesterday who are celebrating the signing of a bill in NC to ‘ban post birth abortion’. Of course there’s no such thing. I tried advocating Hospice care for fetus/infant that has no chance of survival, even if showing signs of life after induced ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@CarolinaGirl60 I used to work in hospice too and my wife was in hospice for her final few months. I hear you. Quality, not quantity. There are worse things than death and I've seen them.

Having a sad today.

CarolinaGirl60 comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I tried talking to a few yesterday who are celebrating the signing of a bill in NC to ‘ban post birth abortion’. Of course there’s no such thing. I tried advocating Hospice care for fetus/infant that has no chance of survival, even if showing signs of life after induced ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

Confuse not the minds of the ignorant (or in this case, the deluded), they will only hate you for it.

How (and Why) Americans Were Taught to Hate Atheists

gearl comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I'm somebody that's old enough to vaguely remember Eisenhower. I can even remember the "I Like Ike" buttons that the kids in fourth grade were wearing in school. I tend to be an optimist and I really believe that maybe the tide will change. We have a gay man running for president and early polling ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

I hope you're right, but for the present we are in about the same place as queer people were in 1980 as far as America.

How (and Why) Americans Were Taught to Hate Atheists

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I would be interested in polling data that said what % of Americans identified themselves as non-believers, Atheist or Agnostic. I'm guessing the total would still be about 5% or less. I know that in my area most people would still be distrustful or at least uncomfortable with you after finding out ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 13, 2019:

@SeaGreenEyez You and I both live in the US, I think. I figured all the hoopla over the increase in nons and their overall size in the population was all hype. Thanks for the confirmation. My intuition and personal experience had already make me suspect that.

I am deeply troubled by the virulent efforts of the anti abortionist movement to criminalise women ...

Triphid comments on Apr 12, 2019:

Draconian laws in an equally Draconian Religiously indoctrinated State and Country in my opinion. A woman has the ONLY right to decide what happens within and to her body, it IS her body, her property, it belongs to her and to NO-ONE else.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

I have read The Handmaid's Tale and also seen the movie. When it comes to restricting abortion, men should have no say whatsoever in it. They are not the ones who have to experience pregnancy, birth, or live with the raising of the child should the father choose to walk away, tho the man would still be financially responsible, which only provides more incentive for men to support abortion rights or stay out of the debate.

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

TCameron comments on Apr 11, 2019:

Interesting. Apparently the profiles don't change at all from 30-60. They all say the same things. The one that gets me the most is "honesty." I am a blunt force instrument of honesty. I can't help myself. I call things just as I see them. And I can say without a doubt, that not one really wants ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

@TCameron Of course it goes both ways T. I like to think most of us here on Agnostic that participate on the boards understand this, but some don't and I get tired of always having to add that into any statement I make about my experience with women in online dating or make some qualifying statement about how my dating experience is only with women, etc. It should be obvious and as controversial as it is with some of the women on these threads. But I guess it always will be contentious because, as Gwendolyn once told me, some women just can't stand hearing the same comments about women from a man that they would otherwise agree with and accept hearing from a woman. When I run into that, it is not my problem that they have resentments and issues with men that color how they read and hear things. It says more about them than me. And I am also aware and honest enough to say that THAT also goes both ways on these boards. Some men can't handle critical comments about men in general or their behavior. I am secure enough in myself and self aware enough to not take those comments personally, but some other men aren't. I have no need or reason to defend men in general. It would be nice if more women on here were the same way, but I'm not holding my breath on the ones that I have already blocked or have blocked me.

Alright, I have to earn a place in the queue.

Patrick comments on Apr 12, 2019:

Not a fair question I guess, but it got me up and running on this site. I still suspect that some of you also wonder in your darkest mind and heart. I just hope I don't. Thanks for all the replies.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

Check out Unitarian Universalism. Many of them, the ones who do believe in some kind of afterlife, believe there is no hell and that everyone gets into heaven. That is a doctrine that came from the Universalists, who merged their denomination with the Unitarians in 1961.

Alright, I have to earn a place in the queue.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 12, 2019:

Salvation won't be on my mind, hoping I'm not in pain, suffering, or alone probably will be.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

@Patrick Not the first time I've been called hard core, but it's usually been about another subject or other times being called hard-headed.

Which is as it should be

Dew25 comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I'm a bit surprised at how many seem to disagree with this. Without nitpicking words, to me there is a clear idea here. I believe the best and enduring relationships are equal partnerships. In my experience and observation, problems and dissatisfaction, eventually always arise when one partner is ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

@Dew25 It is always available, esp. if both people are able-bodied, maybe even if they aren't, functioning, employable and equally-willing mature adults. Like John and Yoko said about ending war, it can be "If you want it". Sorry you got exploited during your marriages. My wife got sick of carrying most of the load with her previous hubby, the addict. He was a college professor who thought all he should contribute to the home and marriage was bring in the big bucks in his job. My wife got tired of being the homemaker and faculty wife, so she went back to college, started working, got her two degrees, bought a house without his help, and kicked his ass to the curb. She had really grown as a woman by the time I met her and she was not going to settle for less than an equal partner. She was a hell of a woman......

Which is as it should be

Dew25 comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I'm a bit surprised at how many seem to disagree with this. Without nitpicking words, to me there is a clear idea here. I believe the best and enduring relationships are equal partnerships. In my experience and observation, problems and dissatisfaction, eventually always arise when one partner is ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

You are ok with me, Dew. My marriage worked because we were an equal partnership and both wanted it that way. It was my first and only marriage and I was very pro-feminist and pro-equality already. My wife was divorced twice and was done with being the caretaker and being responsible for doing most of the work in the home or being the only responsible one in the relationship like she was with her alcoholic, drug addicted, cheating previous hubby. We split all the bills and expenses down the middle, she paid the bills, but we each saw everything about the finances and also shopped together for the groceries. I did all the outside stuff and some of the cleaning in the house. She cooked some and cleaned some in the house. I would not want or recommend any other arrangement that was much different than this. We both really wanted this to work and feel fair to both people and that was the key. Her two previous hubbies didn't and she also was, back then, not yet strong and independent enough to demand different or better as she was raised to be a traditional wife.

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

TCameron comments on Apr 11, 2019:

Interesting. Apparently the profiles don't change at all from 30-60. They all say the same things. The one that gets me the most is "honesty." I am a blunt force instrument of honesty. I can't help myself. I call things just as I see them. And I can say without a doubt, that not one really wants ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

@TCameron I think you've nailed it T. What I see on the paid dating sites is many women who seem to have decided after their divorce that they want the perfect man this time around who will accept and tolerate them with no compromise on their part so that it will all be magic and roses. Of course, these women also show no signs of having gotten any therapy since their divorce, much less taken a look at themselves and decided to make any changes in themselves.

As you grow older you realize there is a role for everyone you meet in life.

LenHazell53 comments on Apr 12, 2019:

Sweet dreams are made of this Who am I to disagree? I travel the world And the seven seas, Everybody's looking for something. Some of them want to use you Some of them want to get used by you Some of them want to abuse you Some of them want to be abused. Annie Lennox

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

I like Annie's better...

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

TCameron comments on Apr 11, 2019:

Interesting. Apparently the profiles don't change at all from 30-60. They all say the same things. The one that gets me the most is "honesty." I am a blunt force instrument of honesty. I can't help myself. I call things just as I see them. And I can say without a doubt, that not one really wants ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

@TCameron No problem, T, I did not take it that you were suggesting that to me at all.

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

linxminx comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I stopped trying to date a couple years ago, but before that, also tried the online dating websites. Based on your comments on women's profiles, they sound amazingly similar to men's profiles, with one exception. Male profiles also had a "resume-like" quality to them: Financially independent - ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

I agree with you too, linxminx, it goes both ways and our culture is very toxic. I don't fall into it, but many people do on the dating sites and it does become a game for them of draw in, devalue, discard. Also our society has totally become disposable about relationships and people in general.

People who have been single too long are.....

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 11, 2019:

I am very open, interested in and ready to date someone if the right woman/women would give me a chance. But it's a two player game and I just don't seem to be able to compete with other men on Batch for the almost all the women I keep messaging and getting ignored or rejected by. And it's not ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

@Nukdookum I think Cast1es was trying to bait and bully me into trying to defend myself or prove my worth as a partner to my late wife, as you are also trying to do here. I don't need to prove or justify anything about myself to you either, so nice try. Enjoy your block too.

People who have been single too long are.....

BufftonBeotch comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I can really agree with this. Having a man in your life might as be like having a 6 foot toddler. Piss on the toilet seat. Dropped laundry everywhere. I want this?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

Tooreen's right. That's not a man, that's an overgrown brat.

People who have been single too long are.....

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 11, 2019:

I am very open, interested in and ready to date someone if the right woman/women would give me a chance. But it's a two player game and I just don't seem to be able to compete with other men on Batch for the almost all the women I keep messaging and getting ignored or rejected by. And it's not ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

@Cast1es You are trying to put words into my mouth. I never said that I am what every woman needs or wants. Nobody is. Nobody is compatible with everyone. I do know from my one LTR of 22 years that I do have a lot of positive things to offer someone who is compatible with me that IS seeking a partner or someone to spend time with or share their life with. Presumably, Cast1es, that is part of or most of why women are on paid dating sites, wouldn't you agree? I had a good, happy marriage and I have no need to prove or explain anything about that or myself to you. Some women grow to be cynical about all men and believe nothing is good or honest about them. Those women should probably stay alone and not try to date, like the ones in that singles group I mentioned. I can see you are trying to bait me and push me into a fight so you can play the victim and get me punished. Nice try, you're blocked instead. I won't fall for it like I did with demifeministgal.

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

dare2dream comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I can relate! I too am a democratic socialist, secular humanist, futurist, and an idealist. I was widowed at 65 and thrown out into the obscure wilderness of the dating world without a playbook or compass and not knowing in which direction to go. I agree with your thoughts on politics and ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

I agree with very much of what you've said and I also share your experience, widowed two years ago after a 22 year relationship, 19 year marriage. I feel so alien here in central Iowa where the vast majority of women on Batch seem like they are from a different culture, few of the divorced ones open to dating someone widowed (for whatever reasons), vast majority of them religious and not open to dating someone Agnostic, vast majority of them very family-oriented and only interested in dating a man who has kids, even with his and her kids are all grown adults, because they seem to want the man more as an escort to visit their adult kids and grandkids with than as a partner to do couple stuff with away from family. On top of that add that I am a non-drinker who is very tolerant and accepting of moderate and social drinkers after being happily married to one, but almost no women on Batch my age will accept a man who is not at least a social drinker, no matter what I tell them about my late wife's social drinking. It seems they just have to have someone who shares that lifestyle trait with them, and probably also their friends and family as well. My guess is that all the women my age in Iowa who want a non-drinking partner are all in AA and find their men to date in the program rather than on a dating site. I would add one caveat to what you said, and that is that the women my age who are widowed are way less bitter, sour, or jaded than the ones who are divorced. I think a lot of that is their armor they carry to protect themselves from being hurt again and few of them have gotten the therapy they should have sought to deal with it. But right now I'm at an age where there aren't that many widowed women to choose from in my age group. Plus, the widowed women tend to be picky also because most of them seem to wait quite a while after being widowed before they try to date. So even tho they are kinder to men, they are usually very settled into being on their own and will be very deliberate and selective about who they will date and how they proceed. Which is understandable and fine by me, I just wish there were more of them in comparison to the divorced women on Batch. I am indeed a stranger in a strange land......But I've lived in Iowa my whole life and always been an alienated person from the mainstream culture and lifestyle too, for the most part. The thing is, once I met my late wife, it didn't matter anymore at all, until I lost her. The continued support of my several friends help some with that, but it's not the same as having a partner, not by a long shot....

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

Reignmond comments on Apr 11, 2019:

I can appreciate your feeling on dating. Between Christians, gay women, transexuals, women who lie about not being married, personality issues, women who might think it is harrassment if you say "Hi"...I just am not even motivated to try to date. The few good women I know were taken a long time ago ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 12, 2019:

Sadly, you are right about a lot of the women on paid dating sites, as well as the same for men. It goes both ways. As Literate Hiker said not that long ago, when you get to dating after age 40 or when the prospects are mostly divorced, you are dealing mostly with leftovers who are divorced or never married for good reasons relating to their faults. The better prospects tend to be there when we are very young or at the age where most of the singles are widowed as far as being good quality partners.

Confronting The Current Dating World At 60 Years Of Age Raised in a family of fundamental ...

TCameron comments on Apr 11, 2019:

Interesting. Apparently the profiles don't change at all from 30-60. They all say the same things. The one that gets me the most is "honesty." I am a blunt force instrument of honesty. I can't help myself. I call things just as I see them. And I can say without a doubt, that not one really wants ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 11, 2019:

I have no interest in hookups or ever trying a hookup site, but with paid dating sites I have experienced much of the same shit as you, probably because we are both in the same level of looks, no offense meant to you, but that is how most women play the game on the paid sites. The average-looking or above women almost all ignore us and go after the guys who are at least 7s or 8s. Like you, I am also honest to a fault and say so in my profile, but it gets me nowhere. Unlike you tho, I try and usually succeed in holding myself back from saying things in messages to women on paid sites that I think might offend them, while at the same time I am always honest about telling them what my values are, that I am not religious, my political category, my taste in music, my not being very family-oriented, my non-drinking, and my lack of being that interested in college sports, like most women I run across on paid sites. That results in a lot of dealbreakers when I get to the point of trading messages with women who do actually reply to me. Almost never end up meeting in person. 6 women in 18 months. I'm with you T, I'm baffled at what they really want and are seeking in men. I know that another strike against me is that almost all of the women with kids, even adult kids who are gone, don't seem to want a man who doesn't have kids. And 75% of the women I see on paid sites my age have kids. So at least you have that going for you, unlike me.

I love the new Justice Dems.

bobwjr comments on Apr 10, 2019:

Old guard may need to go

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 10, 2019:

@gigihein I agree, I won't vote for corrupt corporate Dems anymore, at any level of fed office. Until most voters do the same and vote third party or for independent candidates, the Dems will not change their ways. The lesser evil argument is very effective and allows them to stay this way. We need more like AOC to primary the ass of corporate Dems also.

Just be you✌❤

Sticks48 comments on Apr 10, 2019:

This is exactly what I have done...This is why I live in a van down by the river.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 10, 2019:

You and Chris Farley's SNL character.....

Music is a weapon ✌❤

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 10, 2019:

Music is one of the things that have made life worth living for most of my life. Life without, such as if I were deaf, would be unimagineable, if not unbearable...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 10, 2019:

@creative51 Sounds wise.

This...character is more important that reputation or looks.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 9, 2019:

True that, but I also care about my reputation to the degree that if someone slanders me and I hear about it, I will be looking them up or contacting them to let them know about it, and, as Clint said in Gran Torino, it's going to get ugly, at least verbally......As far as looks, let's not kid ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 10, 2019:

@Cabsmom I might have gotten distracted and misplaced my comment as far as the statements on looks. I think I was responding there to something Sticks said about attraction, so I should have placed my comment in reply to his comment. Sorry, my goof...

Music is a weapon ✌❤

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 10, 2019:

Music is one of the things that have made life worth living for most of my life. Life without, such as if I were deaf, would be unimagineable, if not unbearable...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 10, 2019:

@creative51 Good thing you got that MRI. I guy I knew from a Unitarian church had a tumor like that and he needed a surgery to remove it and it has been growing. He ended up getting a cochlear implant I think.

Music is a weapon ✌❤

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 10, 2019:

Music is one of the things that have made life worth living for most of my life. Life without, such as if I were deaf, would be unimagineable, if not unbearable...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 10, 2019:

@creative51 Really ironic and unusual that, unlike most musicians, your deafness in the one ear was not caused by excessive noise but by a tumor. I bet most people just assume the former in your case unless they hear about the tumor.

Music is a weapon ✌❤

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 10, 2019:

Music is one of the things that have made life worth living for most of my life. Life without, such as if I were deaf, would be unimagineable, if not unbearable...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 10, 2019:

@creative51 Good for you. I'm glad the deafness in one ear did not ruin music for you.

Music is a weapon ✌❤

Sticks48 comments on Apr 10, 2019:

It has been my life and still is. The only time all the bad shit gets blocked out is when I am playing. Sex can do the same thing, but I can't do that for three or four hours. The set up and tear down are a lot easier for sex. A lot less equipment required, and you don't need roadies.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 10, 2019:

I don't play an instrument Sticks, never learned any, probably one of my bigger regrets, but I feel the same way about singing. I can totally relate.

Ugh! I'm so mad.

mischl comments on Apr 9, 2019:

The only person I get to make fun of is me. And frankly, I'm hysterical.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 9, 2019:

I'll bet you are.....

Ugh! I'm so mad.

Nukdookum comments on Apr 9, 2019:

Some people don't get it. All humans deserve respect and dignity. Whether you agree with their life choices or not.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 9, 2019:

dep@Nukdookum I can agree with and accept your standards for how to treat criminals like those, like I said, glad there are penitentiaries. Doesn't mean I will still feel respect for them personally. I agree that treating them barbarically with public abuse does degrade our society. Don't agree with you that the death penalty is right or ever justified for a few reasons. One, it doesn't bring anybody back. Two, it doesn't make anyone even with the murderer. Three, it has often been the case that corrupt or authoritarian governments have used the death penalty unfairly to kill their political opponents. Four, innocent people have been executed and later proved innocent. Either all life is sacred or none of it it, is my argument to the Christians who oppose abortion but support the death penalty. In my mind, everything that lives has some value, but I wouldn't go far enough to say that they are sacred.....

Ugh! I'm so mad.

Nukdookum comments on Apr 9, 2019:

Some people don't get it. All humans deserve respect and dignity. Whether you agree with their life choices or not.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 9, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 You have a point, there are some people that, even if they, or others who are familiar with them, believe that Jesus loves this monstrous person, I still think that they are garbage wrapped in skin when they behave this way towards others. I do not support the death penalty, but you're right I will not respect them like other innocent people and will treat them like the pariah and monster they are. Like Richard Pryor once said, " Thank God we have penitentiaries".

This...character is more important that reputation or looks.

ToolGuy comments on Apr 9, 2019:

I do not agree with the minimizing of reputation as “only” what people think of you. It can open and close doors.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 9, 2019:

It sure can. That's why civil law has slander and libel suits, so those who lie and harm others by aiding in the wrongful closing of doors to others based on lies can be punished financially. If someone slanders me, even if I suffer no financial harm and can't sue them, I will confront them simply as a matter of honor and wanting to let them know that I heard about it, will let others know what they did, and will pay them back if possible by exposing what kind of lying person they are, so they might think twice about doing it again.

And so it goes....

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 8, 2019:

I can relate. I am generally very articulate when speaking, but have always and continue to be tongue-tied when I try speaking to a great-looking woman that I am attracted to. If the woman is unavailable tho, it's no problem speaking to her because I know there is no potential and nothing on the ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 9, 2019:

@LetzGetReal We shall see.. I am having a phone appt. on Thur. with the dating and relationship coach that leads the Meetup group for dating that I just joined. I will be talking with her about coming in to see her and discuss my Match profile, my struggles with online dating, and see what she advises. If it ends up helping or I feel brave, I will share about it on the forum.

And so it goes....

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 8, 2019:

I can relate. I am generally very articulate when speaking, but have always and continue to be tongue-tied when I try speaking to a great-looking woman that I am attracted to. If the woman is unavailable tho, it's no problem speaking to her because I know there is no potential and nothing on the ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 9, 2019:

@LetzGetReal Thanks. I doubt I ever will change. It's reflexive and involuntary, always has been. I think most gorgeous women find it cute and amusing, but it's never won anyone over or led to them wanting to date me. Water seeks and ends up at its own level, at least in my experience.

This doesn't concern you ...

nogod comments on Apr 8, 2019:

lsn't this illegal in most states??

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 8, 2019:

I'm ok with anything between consenting, competent adults, but not with human on animal......I have too much regard and caring for animals, esp. cats....

How do you deal with manspreading?

Lutherzme comments on Apr 8, 2019:

Tasers work well.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 8, 2019:

If only the right passengers were allowed to have them or the flight staff were willing and able to use them on the right people. Unfortunately, the airlines don't want to get sued and if a passenger brought one on and used it, they would be thrown off the plane and go to jail....

I honestly always forget this place can technically be used as a dating app.

bobwjr comments on Apr 8, 2019:

Yeah but you would have no problem for it.great ?group

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 8, 2019:

Bob's right. With your looks you would get tons of attention on any dating site. The question is, depending on which area you lived in, would be if you got the race and quality of man that you wanted, including the same as you on religion.

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

BitFlipper comments on Apr 7, 2019:

I list myself as "agnostic" on dating sites. I've received several stern rebukes from women who claimed to be "christian", but who didn't list any such requirement in their profiles. I've learned to expect rejections and non-responses, but these jeezus rejections seem especially cruel. They seem ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 8, 2019:

@BitFlipper Totally agree about the label part, that's all it is for many of them. Just a way of fitting in with the mainstream culture....

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

BitFlipper comments on Apr 7, 2019:

I list myself as "agnostic" on dating sites. I've received several stern rebukes from women who claimed to be "christian", but who didn't list any such requirement in their profiles. I've learned to expect rejections and non-responses, but these jeezus rejections seem especially cruel. They seem ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 8, 2019:

I always hate it when someone leaves out important info in their profile, whether due to being lazy, careless or evasive, that might help the other person know if the person might be compatible. I have run into a few women on Batch that have identified themselves as Christian in their profile, but also selected the profile trait " Spiritual, but not Religious", as one of the categories under religious preference that they were interested in for a partner. But after they found out I was an Agnostic, after listing my category for my own affiliation as Spritual, but not Religious, the women said I was not compatible. I told them I thought they were being dishonest in how they did their profile and they got mad and said they were honest and I had not been, so I was the one in the wrong. In each case, the woman had nothing in their profile essay about their faith being very strong or very important to them, so I felt they were each just kind of making up their reasons as they went along in the conflict, so it really doesn't matter. They didn't want me and they were not going to be honest and truthful about their reasons for rejecting me. I told them each that they might want to spell out in their profile essay how important their religion and faith were to them, but none of them ever did that after I checked their profiles a week later.

I shared this in a comment, but @sassygirl3869 thought it merited center stage.

Deiter comments on Apr 7, 2019:

Everyone can’t be on the outside. Someone has to be the inside for all the outsiders to stand apart from. Of course, there’s a word for those who start off by asking about *things that make you cry*: Unsocialized. When I was young I loathed small talkers. But small talk is just a bridge ...