TomMcGiverin's Profile

Tribalism: An exploration of the mechanisms that drive tribalism - and that offer a way out of it.

ToolGuy comments on May 22, 2019:

System 2 thinking requires so much energy from people. Posing questions with problems to them reveals that. I personally am an iconoclast or maybe suffer from Oppositional Defiant Disorder — lol — so tend to challenge any concept that somebody reifies.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 22, 2019:

@VictoriaNotes It is lonely most of the time, but I still feel it is or has been worth it.

Is this the true social policy in the USA? Rhetorical question?

Donna_I comments on May 22, 2019:

sad but true. Unfortunatly a lot of the Dems fit in with that as well.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 22, 2019:

So true about the Dems. When they have control of the White House, that's when I am most afraid of Doc. Sec. and Medicare being cut, as they will justify it in the name of being time to cut the deficit and be fiscally responsible, etc. to show they can match the Repubs in that. Of course tho, like the Repubs, the Dems can always find money in the budget for wars.

There are athletes who are agnostic atheist. However are any of them progressive or liberal?

KKGator comments on May 21, 2019:

It would not be "fair" to say that. Your line of thinking IS wrong. Athletes are no different than the rest of the population. Some may appear to be more conservative than others because a) that might actually be their personal position, or, b) they might be acting that way because of who owns...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 21, 2019:

Unlike most of us on here, the majority of people are conformists, most of whom are glad to do so without a second thought about it, while some probably do struggle, at least for a while, with whether to conform to the mainstream or not. I really don't think most people put a lot of thought into whether they conform to the mainstream or go their own way. I think that for most people conforming or not just happens organically as they follow their own nature.

There are athletes who are agnostic atheist. However are any of them progressive or liberal?

powder comments on May 20, 2019:

You are talking professional athletes. And like all proffesions, if you want to get ahead you have to accept and adopt the doctrine of that group. Generally, testing a "companies" doctrine or making waves, is not a good career move anywhere. So most just accept and play the game. True for all of us...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 21, 2019:

So true about how atheism is a real risk to come out with in the workplace in almost all cases. Most people forget that even professional sports, at least the team sports, are a workplace. Individual sports, like golf, tennis, boxing or track and field are a different situation, where an atheist athlete can say and think whatever they want on religion and as long as they have the talent to win, nobody can take it out on them (except maybe the officials in their sport) by firing them or benching them. In non-sports workplaces, about the only workplaces I can think of that would be very tolerant of openly atheist employees would be human and civil rights organizations, like the ACLU, the Unitarian church or liberal political organizations and staff offices of Dem politicians. Otherwise, you are at risk. This issue is much like being gay or lesbian is among professional athletes. I am sure there are many pro athletes who are gay or lesbian, but few are willing to come out until after they retire, for the same reasons atheist pro athletes stay quiet about their non-belief.

Are we (progressives) giving Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez too much praise?

Stevil comments on May 19, 2019:

I've mostly heard negative things about her from Democrats even more than Republicans. That's why I like her. If shes pissing both sides off, she's probably doing something right. I saw a short clip of her this morning asking a CEO kf a drug company why a drug that was developed with government ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 20, 2019:

You hear more gripes about her from Dems than Repubs because the Repubs would rather ignore her and hope she gets ignored by voters and the media while the Dems who are the corrupt, establishment party leaders don't like her challenging the status quo of the duopoly or their inaction and lack of radical reform policies. She makes them look too much like the Repubs, which embarrasses and angers them.

[anticap.files.wordpress.com] And the Dems will have to fix it? Really? That is what they do?

TomMcGiverin comments on May 20, 2019:

Just further proof that the Dems and Repubs are really the same party when it comes to the rich, corporations, and economic policy. Neither one really gives a damn about the common people. They just play kabuki theater over the issues that really affect the common people and pretend to be different ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 20, 2019:

@ToolGuy More so in the past than in the present. The FBI is not as involved in domestic intel and opposition to lefties as in the past, at least as far as spying on political leaders when Hoover was their director. But I agree that they are still very involved in spying on and trying to infiltrate lefty groups.

[anticap.files.wordpress.com] And the Dems will have to fix it? Really? That is what they do?

TomMcGiverin comments on May 20, 2019:

Just further proof that the Dems and Repubs are really the same party when it comes to the rich, corporations, and economic policy. Neither one really gives a damn about the common people. They just play kabuki theater over the issues that really affect the common people and pretend to be different ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 20, 2019:

@ToolGuy Possibly, but even if he wins I can easily see a situation where he gets undermined constantly by the corporate media and both parties in congress to try and hamstring him from getting anything done as well as try to create fake scandals and destroy his credibility. It would look a lot like what is being done in Venezuala and what has been done in the past to socialist leaders in South America by the US govt.(thru the CIA) and the establishment in those countries. Over time it has proven to be very effective in hindering progressive leaders if not sometimes forcing them out of power eventually.

How do you answer the banal message, "Hey, how are you?"

SeeCanU comments on May 20, 2019:

i usually type - 'fine. how are you?' what gets me are the prescripted questions that match has.... i don't usually answer those.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 20, 2019:

@LiterateHiker I don't blame you for the disappointment and lack of interest when they are not willing to put any effort into their message. As I said elsewhere on this thread, even tho I now feel hopeless about online dating ever working for me, I still at least make a decent effort in my messages, even if it's only out of pride for my writing ability and my awareness that there's no point in sending the kind of messages you are getting because even if the woman reads them, they are not going to respond to that kind of message, at least with my level of looks, so why would I even bother sending a message like that?

How do you answer the banal message, "Hey, how are you?"

JeffMesser comments on May 20, 2019:

what is so wrong about trying to be nice?

TomMcGiverin replies on May 20, 2019:

@LiterateHiker It certainly is, particularly in the long run. Glad you had fun together. But I think with most people in the dating world, appearance matters way more than character, esp. in the early stage, because the things on most people's minds in selecting a partner are more about does this person look like someone I would want to have sex with and would my friends and family be impressed with how attractive they look and dress. Sad, but true in most cases.......We are the exceptions in that we care more about our own standards of who we want to be with rather than what others think about the person, but, then again, as non-believers we are non-conformist by nature...

How do you answer the banal message, "Hey, how are you?"

JeffMesser comments on May 20, 2019:

what is so wrong about trying to be nice?

TomMcGiverin replies on May 20, 2019:

@LiterateHiker Of course the profile essay and well-written messages matter to you and almost every other woman, but they are clearly not enough by themselves to rate a reply or spark enough interest for most women to trade messages or meet someone in person. People are seeking more than a pen pal or a platonic friend.

How do you answer the banal message, "Hey, how are you?"

Cecilia2018 comments on May 20, 2019:

Messages with closed - ended questions I answer them with one word but if I receive open - ended questions I like to answer them with a lot of details. As an example: How was your weekend? Fine. How do you feel today? Fine How are you? Fine. So if they don't take the effort to read my profile ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 20, 2019:

I don't ask those to women on Match, but then again, most men are idiots on those sites. But it doesn't matter to most women if the guy has the looks.....The only time I ask a closed ? is if I suspect the woman is a country music fan (which is a dealbreaker with me), then I will ask if they like country music much. All the other dealbreaker ?s I save for after I get an initial reply from the woman. And when I ask those ?s I make it an open-ended one.

How do you answer the banal message, "Hey, how are you?"

SeeCanU comments on May 20, 2019:

i usually type - 'fine. how are you?' what gets me are the prescripted questions that match has.... i don't usually answer those.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 20, 2019:

I'm on Match too and I see those all the time. Those questions are retarded and only used by people too dim to write a decent ? or comment in a message. I don't want to look that dim to women, for what it's worth......

How do you answer the banal message, "Hey, how are you?"

Deb57 comments on May 20, 2019:

My go-to answer to "How are you?" is "Mean as ever."

TomMcGiverin replies on May 20, 2019:

@Deb57 Makes sense.

How do you answer the banal message, "Hey, how are you?"

Deb57 comments on May 20, 2019:

My go-to answer to "How are you?" is "Mean as ever."

TomMcGiverin replies on May 20, 2019:

I don't think you're mean at all Deb, but I understand why you might answer defensively....

How do you answer the banal message, "Hey, how are you?"

JeffMesser comments on May 20, 2019:

what is so wrong about trying to be nice?

TomMcGiverin replies on May 20, 2019:

@LiterateHiker As I have said many times before to other women on Agnostic, I don't doubt that you are less shallow and more open-minded about looks than most women on paid dating sites, but that doesn't change my experience on the paid sites or really help me any with my lack of success on them. If anything, it gives me false hope that I might have better luck in the future with those type of sites, or even this one if a bunch of new women my age joined Agnostic from my area. Which hasn't happened in the last two years and likely never will. If I may share something personal, I had a rather depressing experience today reading a timeline post on FB from a woman I know in my area that is a fellow hipster and theater person that is a FB friend. She posted a pic of her ex-fiance at a bar meeting with another woman. (The pic was taken by another woman and my FB friend posted this to warn her friends that this man was on the prowl again for other women to deceive). This FB friend is too young for me to date by a few years and is apparently very open-minded about looks in who she has dated because the guy was bald, like me, and also very overweight and not even a handsome face. Her friends, tho, who I assume are also around her age and very nice-looking like her, all made comments about the guy being bald and overweight, etc. and several even openly said that she had been dating someone who was unworthy of her based on his looks. Their comments sure explained a lot to me about how shallow most women are about looks and why I have such little success on Match, because even tho these women are all fellow hipsters, like me and my FB friend they have in common, no wonder I can't get any hipster women my age that are like them to reply to my messages if the ones my age are just as shallow and narrow-minded about looks. I hear lots of women say that baldness is not an issue for them in who they will date, but after seeing the comments of these women on FB, it's obvious that the acceptance of baldness by most women on paid sites is qualified by the man also having six-pack abs and a very muscled body.

How do you answer the banal message, "Hey, how are you?"

JeffMesser comments on May 20, 2019:

what is so wrong about trying to be nice?

TomMcGiverin replies on May 20, 2019:

@LiterateHiker I do those kind of things in my messages. It makes no difference. My guess is that it's all about looks in the main profile pic and the other profile pics. Message content and profile content don't matter if you don't have the looks the other sex is seeking.

So, I made the mistake and posted some Atheist memes on facebook.

Esot_Eric comments on May 19, 2019:

thank you for your concern, I am more worried about my family at this point. I just hope they see that my freedom of speech and unwillingness to give in was worth it. Right now, they think I did the wrong thing by posting them, and the wrong thing for not taking them down when asked by my boss. I...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 19, 2019:

Sorry your boss acted like a dick.

So, I made the mistake and posted some Atheist memes on facebook.

A2Jennifer comments on May 19, 2019:

Get a lawyer. They can’t fire you for your religious non-beliefs.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 19, 2019:

They sure as hell can if you live in an at-will employment state like I do (Iowa). They can fire you for any reason or no reason. That's why I've always said that in at-will employment states, no one who is employed by others has free speech, inside or outside of work, unless they are represented by a union that has a contract. Yup, he lives in Indiana, another red, at-will state.

Do you find persistence attractive?

TomMcGiverin comments on May 19, 2019:

This ? really only applies to the women since, by default, all the pursuing on the paid dating sites is done by the men. It doesn't have to be that way, but that's how it works these days. So, honestly, I can't answer the ? because I have never had any women pursue me since I was in college.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 19, 2019:

@Cabsmom Trust me on this, you are a rarity. I've been on Match almost two years now, so I know what I am talking about. I think it's good when women make the first move because it gives them more control of making sure there is contact between them and the kind of men they are seeking, rather than just depending on getting messaged first by those same men. But it just doesn't happen very often on the paid sites, as the women quickly figure out that the men will gladly do all the pursuing, depending on the women's level of looks. Average or above will get lots of interest, same with men who are way above average looking. I have heard that the women will message them first much of the time. This and the whole cougar thing are proof that many women can be just as shallow and out to play rather than date their own age as men traditionally have been.

Abortion is not the issue.

BohoHeathen comments on May 18, 2019:

Control! Control! Control! Not to mention other agendas along with it! Bastards 😡

TomMcGiverin replies on May 19, 2019:

@KKGator I get that you feel rage about this, but I still would advise limits on who to picket. I have known good, caring people who are believers and attend the kind of churches I suggest avoiding, because they are on our side and there is no need to alienate what allies we have in the churches. We need them. We need everybody that cares about women's rights and agrees with us on this. I cannot agree with you that all religion is evil or that all people who believe in religion are evil. Like everything, evil comes from what people do with things, including power.

Abortion is not the issue.

BohoHeathen comments on May 18, 2019:

Control! Control! Control! Not to mention other agendas along with it! Bastards 😡

TomMcGiverin replies on May 19, 2019:

@KKGator If so, you would want to limit it to just the fundy ones and only some of the Catholic churches, because some of the Catholic churches are not that hardcore against abortion. All of the fundy/evangelical churches are, such as Pentacostal, Baptist, Missouri Synod Lutheran, etc. Some of the mainline Protestant churches are quite pro-choice, esp. United Church of Christ and Congregational churches.

Abortion is not the issue.

TomMcGiverin comments on May 18, 2019:

If I could make the rules for everyone, one rule would be that men should have no voice whatsoever in the making of public policy on abortion, since they are not the ones impacted by the policies nor do they experience pregnancy or give birth. That in itself would rid us of this religious, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 18, 2019:

@Deiter Same in Iowa. Yes, many of these anti choice folks are female, but the majority are males.

Abortion is not the issue.

Boxdoc comments on May 18, 2019:

If a woman is unhappy in her marriage she could get a divorce. That is expensive and a hassle. To avoid this she could hire someone to kill her spouse. That would be Murder for Convenience and is illegal and morally repugnant. If a woman is struggling with the behavior of an unruly teenage child, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 18, 2019:

@KKGator Those that cry about the sanctity of life and such are almost never consistent in their support of it. Either they also support the death penalty, wars of aggression and empire, as well as oppose social welfare programs to support poor children and their families. About the only ones I have ever seen that were consistent in supporting life at all stages were the Berrigan brothers, both Catholic priests who were longtime political activists for lefty causes. But they are both dead and none have ever replaced them in that regard on the pro-life side of the abortion debate.

Is the Co-operative the answer to income inequality?

TomMcGiverin comments on May 12, 2019:

I'm guessing not. The Amish have been around America for over two hundred years, I think, and their system has no caught on with the rest of America. Co-ops used to be popular with farmers in America as a way to prevent the railroads and grain elevators from cheating them out of their fair share of ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 12, 2019:

@Happy_Killbot America's core problem when it comes to rejecting socialism and not dealing with inequality is the pervasive individualism that is preached in our media and by our politicians of both parties. Until collectivism is the dominant value in the culture over individualism, we are doomed to more of the same.

Emotionally-stunted men

zeuser comments on May 12, 2019:

If you fish in the same pond and use the same bait you'll catch the same kind of fish, over and over. Sometimes when you change your fishing hole and go with another kind of bait you don't catch anything at all, so there's a risk involved. But it sounds like even you think it's time for something ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 12, 2019:

Reminds me of the vast majority of women on Match that I see, about 70% of the profiles I view, who are divorced and will only date men who are divorced, not anyone widowed. Probably because they think that all, instead of a minority, of widowed men are still emotionally married to their dead wives. So they stick to only dating the familiar, fellow divorcees, and wonder why they are all leftovers or not good at relationships.

Emotionally-stunted men

Moravian comments on May 12, 2019:

To be blunt. Either you have been very unlucky in the men you have met or part of the problem may be with you.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 12, 2019:

With most people, the answer is some of both.

Why Progressives HAVE TO Vote for ANY Democrat Who Wins the Nomination in 2020

TomMcGiverin comments on May 11, 2019:

I don't HAVE to do shit Paul.......Last I heard, we have the right to vote for whomever we choose, including third parties and for something better than the lesser evil. Suit yourself, as my grandpa used to say.......

TomMcGiverin replies on May 12, 2019:

@Paul4747 The Mission Accomplished success of the DLC to where it no longer needed to exist, after moving the Dems to the right over a couple decades, shows how well working within the party has worked for progressives, so, no thanks Paul, to working within the party. As Dr. Phil would say, "How's that working for you?"

Like trying to find a unicorn

TomMcGiverin comments on May 11, 2019:

Not trying to be critical, but I would never expect that kind of support from someone in a relationship, at least not as a burden I was putting on them from the beginning. That's what therapists are for, being the primary person helping you cope. I'm glad that I am not so broken that I need a woman ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 11, 2019:

@Marcie1974 Agreed.

Why Progressives HAVE TO Vote for ANY Democrat Who Wins the Nomination in 2020

THHA comments on May 11, 2019:

Usually when someone tries to tell me I HAVE TO do something, I am more inclined to do the opposite. That is like me telling you HAVE TO take a flying leap into a cesspool, but I guess that is what you are suggesting anyway, both parties are cesspools, they are filled with people who support wars ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 11, 2019:

I like your style. I have found that even tho everyone on this site is a non-believer, there are often differences between us on other things. But one thing I have seen with about everyone on Agnostic is that we all seem to have issues with authority. Especially about being told what to do by others. As I like to say, even when you vote for the lesser turd, you're still voting for shit......

Like trying to find a unicorn

TomMcGiverin comments on May 11, 2019:

Not trying to be critical, but I would never expect that kind of support from someone in a relationship, at least not as a burden I was putting on them from the beginning. That's what therapists are for, being the primary person helping you cope. I'm glad that I am not so broken that I need a woman ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 11, 2019:

@Marcie1974 Understood Marcie. I was not trying to be critical of you and I respect that you are honest about your needs, which seem fair and realistic. I hope you are able to find a man that is caring, strong, and healthy enough to give you what you need.

Forgive me if this gets a little raw.

TomMcGiverin comments on May 11, 2019:

I can totally relate man. I really want to meet someone that is compatible and actually start to date again for the first time since my wife died, but at the same time, even tho I feel I am ready to date, I know how much it would crush me emotionally if it didn't work out. Partly because my father ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 11, 2019:

@Deiter You do have one significant advantage over me in the dating pool situation, which is that living in the LA area there is a much larger dating pool of hipster, non-believer women our age than in my area. But, I'm sure that is small consolation as you have the same problem with me in online dating, namely so much competition for those women...

Forgive me if this gets a little raw.

TomMcGiverin comments on May 11, 2019:

I can totally relate man. I really want to meet someone that is compatible and actually start to date again for the first time since my wife died, but at the same time, even tho I feel I am ready to date, I know how much it would crush me emotionally if it didn't work out. Partly because my father ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 11, 2019:

@Deiter You and Sticks are both The Man to me, but I don't swing that way, lol! Thanks for the compliment, I think.......

After reading the interesting post on left-handedness, I have a question: I am a left-hander.

TomMcGiverin comments on May 11, 2019:

I am left-handed and share some of your traits, but not all. I have never felt conspired against by the world as a left hander or otherwise, because I have always seen myself as too small and insignificant to rate any conspiracies and see left-handedness as no different than my being tall, which is ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 11, 2019:

@wordywalt When was very young I bought myself a pair of left-handed scissors and have kept them ever since. They do make life noticeably easier. But my other adaptations have been easy and painless. I learned to play golf right-handed-very poorly- so I didn't have to buy left-handed clubs and gave up on the game when I was still very young. In bowling I use my right hand so I have the strength of my left hand to hold up the ball.

I love that Chobani stepped up.

TomMcGiverin comments on May 11, 2019:

I live in a very smug, Repub town where most people have too much money, yet there are also a couple of trailer parks and also plenty of run down, old houses. I wasn't surprised at all when the local school board voted to not write off the lunch debts of kids, just that they would still allow the ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 11, 2019:

@Robecology Sorry Rob. I don't think I have it in me to do LD dating or another LD move either. Maybe one more move next decade to a nearby city into a hipster neighborhood, but that's it. I need my friends here too much to consider another LD move, since I am estranged from my family.

Douchebag Von Fuckface (what Bill Maher calls dtjr), has been subpoenaed by Senate Intel ...

SeaGreenEyez comments on May 8, 2019:

Hahaha @ "...cannibalize each other ..." 😂 (Isn't this great? Even if it turns into nothing, I can just see Jr's chinless jaw quivering as he cries like a baby waiting for Daddy to fix this with invisible money and unreturned calls to Putin.) :-P

TomMcGiverin replies on May 11, 2019:

@MrBeelzeebubbles, @KKGator Only if he ended up in a real prison. See my comment below.

Douchebag Von Fuckface (what Bill Maher calls dtjr), has been subpoenaed by Senate Intel ...

SeaGreenEyez comments on May 8, 2019:

Hahaha @ "...cannibalize each other ..." 😂 (Isn't this great? Even if it turns into nothing, I can just see Jr's chinless jaw quivering as he cries like a baby waiting for Daddy to fix this with invisible money and unreturned calls to Putin.) :-P

TomMcGiverin replies on May 11, 2019:

@MrBeelzeebubbles Unfortunately, when you are in his economic class and also well-connected, you never get sent to what they called in Office Space " a pound me in the ass prison". Tis a pity.....

Douchebag Von Fuckface (what Bill Maher calls dtjr), has been subpoenaed by Senate Intel ...

TomMcGiverin comments on May 11, 2019:

The vulgar nickname for Trump Jr. is funny to me, but then again a name that clever would be funny to me applied to anybody I loathe.....Maher may owe an apology to garden-variety douchebags everywhere for lumping them in with Trump Jr.......

TomMcGiverin replies on May 11, 2019:

@KKGator I stand corrected then....

‘Decades in the making’: Megachurch pastor gives up on Christianity in profanity-laced ...

altschmerz comments on May 10, 2019:

I can attest to that – church people *are* shitty people.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 11, 2019:

To be fair, I have found that both in Christian churches and Unitarian churches as well, even tho the latter is full of non-believers.

Look what I got today! Sexy, huh?

TomMcGiverin comments on May 8, 2019:

My late wife had bunion surgery on each foot. Those boots are a pain in the ass....

TomMcGiverin replies on May 9, 2019:

@LiterateHiker You have always seemed smart and resourceful here on the boards, so I'm sure you will manage well....

Another school shooting.

JackPedigo comments on May 7, 2019:

I heard on NPR that the democrats are pushing a bill to daylight soft money to politicians. This would keep such groups as the NRA from not having to disclose their donations. I find it criminal that large powerful groups can legally hide their donations but then again the NRA is a criminal ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 9, 2019:

Shows that the Dems are just as heartless and corrupt as the Repubs.

Seeing that we are all atheists agnostics what makes a person choose good over evil?

Matias comments on May 8, 2019:

I try to be as law-abiding as possible because I fear the punishment. I think that maybe 10 per cent of all people are "saints": they act pro-socially because they are good-hearted and hard-wired to behave altruistically. The rest (except some sociopaths who act selfishly and antisocially no...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 8, 2019:

I think that is unfortunately true for most people. The pyschologist Lawrence Kohlberg did studies on this subject, called moral reasoning, and he found that the vast majority of people operate at the moral reasoning level of conformity and obedience. In other words, doing right only enough to not get caught, punished, or ostracized, instead of acting according to their own moral principles and with integrity. Not very encouraging for our species or society.

[bbc.

Renickulous comments on Apr 29, 2019:

Decent health insurance costs 80$ a month, if a soon to be parent can't afford that then the issue is most likely responsiblity not lack of opportunity or the economy.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 8, 2019:

@Renickulous No, the issue of this thread in general is healthcare costs for the patient, both in the UK and the US. Your attitude still stinks as far as I'm concerned and you are now blocked.

[bbc.

Renickulous comments on Apr 29, 2019:

Decent health insurance costs 80$ a month, if a soon to be parent can't afford that then the issue is most likely responsiblity not lack of opportunity or the economy.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 8, 2019:

Bullshit. I am 60 yo, living in Iowa, and on a state retirees health plan that I was lucky enough to join my late spouse on before she got ill and later died. She was a state retiree worker. I pay $700 a month for very good health insurance, including meds, but if I hadn't been married to her, even under Obamacare I would never have been able to get any better deal than this for health insurance at my age. Where do you get your $80 a month figure? At my age and with my medical issues, I see specialists often enough that I have no choice but to get very good coverage or have my health fall apart. How are people like me supposed to get by and maintain our health with just "decent" coverage? It's not my fault that my health issues were genetically inherited... On last year's tax return I paid over 10K in premiums and out of pocket costs. My income was only twice that. I'm very lucky I have plenty of savings and retirement money, that's why I retired early, but if I didn't have all that to draw on, I would not be able to afford to live, even as simply as I do now. Because my medical costs would take about half of my income and leave nowhere near enough to cover other basic needs. I would probably be homeless, even if I was still working. My income is now SS Survivor's Benefits. I reject your conservative, "personal responsibility" attitude....Many, if not most, people my age and in my condition, are not lucky enough to have or be able to get jobs with good medical benefits, esp. once they reach age 50 or older. Employers don't want them for benefitted jobs. What are they supposed to do if they didn't inherit well like I did?

My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

Summer72 comments on May 5, 2019:

Many men also have unrealistic fantasies. A man wants much of the opposite of what your ex wants. Expectations from men.... I should always want sex, never need much, be OCD about cleaning, care taker, have a great sports bod and be a mommy figure. But these men wouldn't get a minute of my time. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

@Summer72 Thank you. You are part of a wise, but small minority of women who are divorced and open-minded. Most of them on Match do not seem to be looking at the total person when they are "shopping" on the dating site. They are simply using a checklist as they view the profiles, and they also seem to be choosing only the familiar, namely only seeking men who have only the same lifestyle and background traits as them, on things like having kids, being divorced, being a social drinker, being religious, etc., instead of being open to men with a difference or two from them in those areas. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with wanting most things in common or having dealbreakers, we all have them and want those things in a partner. But when someone is really rigid and superficial in their checklist, they miss out on some good people who have the right heart, personality, and ability to compromise, which is necessary in all good relationships, no matter how much alike you both are. Besides, wouldn't it be boring to have a partner who was an opposite gender clone of you?

My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

Summer72 comments on May 5, 2019:

Many men also have unrealistic fantasies. A man wants much of the opposite of what your ex wants. Expectations from men.... I should always want sex, never need much, be OCD about cleaning, care taker, have a great sports bod and be a mommy figure. But these men wouldn't get a minute of my time. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

@Carin Thanks for the validation and support Carin, but that really is how self-limiting and self-sabotaging most women on Match are, in my experience. They indicate in their profile's checklist of traits near the end of the profile that they are only looking for divorced men. Which, when you think about it, is really stupid to only pick from men who had failed relationships instead of being open to widowed men who might be great partners and have only had one LTR, like me, that was successful and happy. I guess those narrow-minded women must think that they will be able to find the gems and prize men among all the divorced men on Match instead of ending up dating mostly men who were divorced for good reasons, mainly their faults as a partner. I appreciate your comment that these narrow-minded, superficial women, as you say, are no loss for me, but when you have had as little success I have had in 20 months on Match in meeting anyone to date, that feels more like a rationalization than comforting.

My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

Summer72 comments on May 5, 2019:

Many men also have unrealistic fantasies. A man wants much of the opposite of what your ex wants. Expectations from men.... I should always want sex, never need much, be OCD about cleaning, care taker, have a great sports bod and be a mommy figure. But these men wouldn't get a minute of my time. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

@Carin And that is why I get so little interest on Match. I am widowed without kids, a very small group out of those on Match my age. The vast majority of women, like you, won't date a man without kids. Add to that, the majority of divorced women on Match will not date a man who is not also divorced, like them, maybe because they cynically or ignorantly assume that all widowed men are either not done grieving or still emotionally married to their dead wife. Lastly, only about 25% of the women my age on Match in my area are widowed. Add all of those common preference choices together with the women on Match, and it leaves me with only a very small dating pool of women that are willing to accept someone like me with my background. Then, after you factor in the usual dealbreakers over other lifestyle and cultural traits, I am left with a sliver of the women on Match that are compatible and open to giving me a chance.

My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

Summer72 comments on May 5, 2019:

Many men also have unrealistic fantasies. A man wants much of the opposite of what your ex wants. Expectations from men.... I should always want sex, never need much, be OCD about cleaning, care taker, have a great sports bod and be a mommy figure. But these men wouldn't get a minute of my time. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

@Carin I sure see a lot of that on Match in the women's profiles, the trend of going with the familiar and similar over being open to someone with differences in background or lifestyle that might be positive for a change with a new relationship. As in, almost all the women with kids, and even most of the ones who don't have kids, indicate they only want men with kids, adult or younger. Same with drinking, social and moderate drinkers will almost always indicate that they will only date fellow drinkers, social or moderate. But what's really interesting, as far as sticking with the familiar, is that about 70% of the divorced women will not date a widowed man, even the ones in my age group, probably because they want a man who has been thru a divorce over someone who had a successful marriage ending in death. I guess the choice there might often be explained by wanting someone who has shared the unique pain of a divorce, the familiar, over someone who might be more capable and ready for a successful relationship. Understanding and commiseration over improving their odds of success with a more relationship competent, less flawed, and supportive man. But I don't doubt there are reasons for people sticking with the familiar in what types of people they want to date, such as divorced women feeling they don't understand widowed men as well as divorced men or assuming that the man's family, esp. kids, won't accept her. Assumptions that the man who is a non-drinker won't be accepting of her drinking or fit in with that same trait shared by her friends and family. Assumptions that a man without kids, even when her kids are all adults, won't be accepting or interested enough in her kids and grandkids. In the case of women without kids, my guess is that the reason the vast majority of them also only want a man with kids is so they can lean on them later after the man dies and she is left old and widowed then they will be assumed to comfort and look after her.

My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

birdingnut comments on May 6, 2019:

Sounds about right. Studies show that women prefer romance, cuddling, walks, mutual massages, foot rubs, trips to museums, etc. and could skip sex altogether without a qualm. They mostly put up with sex to keep a male companion around. Men seem to want sex on demand, and an efficient maid/cook, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

@Carin Notice tho that it said the online-based relationships did only "slightly better" than the offline based relationships......

Who here has dealt with depression from a firsthand experience?

ToolGuy comments on May 6, 2019:

I have as a counsellor and I had a mother who was periodically depressed. My mother dealt with it by refocusing her attention on beauty and friends through her church.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

Depression runs thru my family too. One of my grandmother's committed suicide.

Who here has dealt with depression from a firsthand experience?

Sticks48 comments on May 6, 2019:

Me

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

I'm sorry and genuinely surprised to hear that Sticks, but you are still the man to me....you and Deiter. I admire the hell out of both of you.

That sinking feeling when you find this in your mail box..

TomMcGiverin comments on May 7, 2019:

I'm guessing this means you got audited, owe penalties or something else negative. Care to share with us the message from the IRS?

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

@ownworstenemy I can relate. Before my late wife's dementia, she handled all of her own finances as well as our shared bills. When I had to suddenly take over everything financial for me and her, I was so stressed out and overwhelmed, besides being younger than her and not old enough to yet know anything about or have to deal with retirement accounts and taxes, including annual RMDs, that the first year I filed our taxes, I forgot to include her RMD income, so the IRS penalized us for that. I just payed it and didn't bother contacting them to explain the reason for the oversight, as our accountant said it wouldn't make any diff anyway on how much the penalty was or if they would waive it. The penalty amounted to what we would have payed anyway if we had listed the income on the return.

Should we respect other people's beliefs?

icolan comments on May 6, 2019:

Bigotry, hatred, and ignorance have no place in civilized society.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 6, 2019:

@BeerAndWine I get that. My point is that over time standards change as to what civilized society defines as bigotry, etc.

I live in a very Christian and republican area.

LiterateHiker comments on May 6, 2019:

I live in Christian, Republican-dominated Eastern Washington. As a Democrat, environmentalist, feminist and hiker, I joined: 1. Women's hiking group 2. Library book club 3. Democrats of North Central Washington 4. Citizens for Peace 5. Anytime Fitness

TomMcGiverin replies on May 6, 2019:

I'm in the same number of groups. Haven't met anyone from them to date in two years and probably never will. Purely for shared interest and socializing.

Should we respect other people's beliefs?

icolan comments on May 6, 2019:

Bigotry, hatred, and ignorance have no place in civilized society.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 6, 2019:

I generally agree, but who gets to draw the line on what falls into that and what doesn't? Clearly the standards have shifted over time as society has evolved or in some cases devolved lately, largely due to advances in science and knowledge.

Maybe this is all just simple common sense or another way to bring traffic to his site, but I like ...

amymcmxcii comments on May 6, 2019:

It seems that this is excellent advice, but so well-known so as to be almost cliché. The big problem is how to find the right person, a problem exacerbated by dating sites and the internet in general. Like the old saw: "How to make a rabbit stew - first catch a rabbit."

TomMcGiverin replies on May 6, 2019:

Yup, obvious and common sense, but from what I see on Match, not practiced by most people on the paid sites. People and relationships are too much of a disposable commodity with most people in the internet age and as a result, most people on dating sites are simply shopping in a very impersonal, selfish way. No wonder most of them act coldly and like jerks.

My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

TomMcGiverin comments on May 5, 2019:

She is clearly deluded and looking for a unicorn. I like your humor here Fred.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 6, 2019:

@Carin You're welcome. That was my intent and I'm glad it was helpful.

My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

TomMcGiverin comments on May 5, 2019:

She is clearly deluded and looking for a unicorn. I like your humor here Fred.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 6, 2019:

@Carin I agree with your points about being people being honest with others. My point was about people expecting nothing but some fantasy in a relationship instead of a realistic relationship with an actual person. Talk about objectifying the other party in advance by treating them as some object to be used in fulfilling a fantasy rather than dealing with them as an actual, complex, flawed human. I hear all the time how women don't want to be objectified by men. Isn't this just another form of that?

My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

TomMcGiverin comments on May 5, 2019:

She is clearly deluded and looking for a unicorn. I like your humor here Fred.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 5, 2019:

@Fred_Snerd Unfortunately, that kind of fantasy is what a lot, but probably not most women, want, and in my mind they are pretty fucked up mentally and emotionally. I don't want someone like that and they wouldn't want me. But when you are a non-believer and also non-mainstream and non-conforming in some other ways and live in a fairly conservative, traditional area, it doesn't leave a guy like me with many prospects......

Thought, in relationships, men put up all the effort(or at least are expected to) while women only ...

friendlycatlady comments on May 4, 2019:

Actually, I have been thinking about this topic lately. What I have found, as a woman is that men seem to value superficial things, like looks, youth, and sex much more than personality, or intelligence. When I was really young, I fantasized about meeting someone with whom I could share my innermost...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 5, 2019:

@Sticks48 Not all men are wired for recreational sex, and I'm one of them, but I totally agree that most of them are and I also agree with the rest of your comment Sticks. And, friendlycatlady, he's also right that you have a huge advantage over most other women in the dating game with your looks. But with that also comes the problem of drawing a lot of superficial interest from men, who want sex rather than a real relationship with the whole you. And on that, like Sticks, said, all you can do is sort carefully until you run into a man who wants the whole you, is in it for a real relationship, and is right for you. There are men like that out there and I am looking for that type of woman, but we are pretty much overlooked by women in your league of looks. That is the dilemma good-looking people face, namely, are they willing to move down any from their level of looks for a partner who is right in every other way for them, since many, if not the vast majority of the opposite sex at their looks level are probably looking for something different than them in a partner, such as looks only, money, or just sex, anything but a real relationship that is deep and equal. Not all great looking people are selfish, shallow, or exploitive, but because of their looks they do have a lot more choices in the dating game, so it allows them to be those things very easily if they choose and thus they are often seeking different things in dating than those who don't have great looks. Because they can. Kind of like very rich people in how they are free to live their lives compared to the common folk. When you're rich, you never have to behave nicely, be honest, or treat anyone fairly, because you can buy your way out of almost anything.....

EDIT: I put this in the relationship forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on May 3, 2019:

I am way different in culture, values, and lifestyle than most people in my area, which I am just fine with and have been my whole adult life. However, when I attempt to find someone compatible to date, it really does work against me and becomes a big challenge. Being way different from the herd ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 4, 2019:

@Fred_Snerd Whatever works for you. I'm different and will not "play a role" to date women or get them into bed. I will be me, whatever the cost. I have to say, in all honesty, that guys that play your kind of games with women do have an impact on guys like me in the dating game as the women who deal with you probably come away feeling very cynical, if not bitter, and then they take it out on guys like me. So I kind of resent what you do for the effects it has on women that I later have to face and deal with, which I wish I didn't have to keep encountering.

With absolute certainty I can say I will never date anyone who is religious!

Moravian comments on Apr 29, 2019:

I dated a religious woman for three years. She had many admirable qualities and our differing views only occasionally caused friction. She was very materialistic and dumped me because I could not afford to " Wine and dine" her in the manner she wanted and expected, so in no way did she follow "the ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 4, 2019:

@Moravian They can find and expect someone else as far as I'm concerned. I will not date someone who is materialistic and ok with being exploitive.

We could all learn a lot from Pooh, Piglet and Eeyore It occurred to Pooh 🐻 and Piglet 🐷 ...

Booklover comments on May 3, 2019:

Eeyore is my spirit animal. Lovely to have friends who know they don't have to "fix" anything, just be there.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 4, 2019:

As you know Nancy, GrumpyCat is my general spirit animal and I often relate to Eeyore. I also have my old copy of The Velveteen Rabbit.

EDIT: I put this in the relationship forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on May 3, 2019:

I am way different in culture, values, and lifestyle than most people in my area, which I am just fine with and have been my whole adult life. However, when I attempt to find someone compatible to date, it really does work against me and becomes a big challenge. Being way different from the herd ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 4, 2019:

@Fred_Snerd We have very different goals as far as dating then. When all you are doing is playing and dating casually, the differences don't matter. But that's not why I am trying to date and not how I am wired.

We could all learn a lot from Pooh, Piglet and Eeyore It occurred to Pooh 🐻 and Piglet 🐷 ...

TomMcGiverin comments on May 3, 2019:

The sad truth is that in real life few Eeyores have friends like that. Even here on Agnostic, I have seen members mocked and kicked when they were feeling down for openly sharing about how bad they felt. They were even compared to Eeyore. Tis a pity. Which is why I will never share like that again ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 4, 2019:

@Annabelle95991 Thanks. If you were my age and lived in my area, I would want to meet you and hear you sing.

With absolute certainty I can say I will never date anyone who is religious!

Moravian comments on Apr 29, 2019:

I dated a religious woman for three years. She had many admirable qualities and our differing views only occasionally caused friction. She was very materialistic and dumped me because I could not afford to " Wine and dine" her in the manner she wanted and expected, so in no way did she follow "the ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

I have enough money to pay my own way, but I will not date a woman who expects me to pay her way like what you seem to be describing. Seems too much like being a sugar daddy, which to me smacks of prostitution-lite. I am not very materialistic and would need someone to share that with me if it was going to work out.

The real reason neither party want a progressive candidate is because they would have the ability to...

Paul4747 comments on May 3, 2019:

Or possibly because the Republican party is not a party of progressives, but conservatives who are unlikely to nominate a progressive... and because the Democrats realize that a minority of the country are what *you* define as "progressive", so they need to appeal to the center to win an election ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

@Paul4747 Let it go man, we're done. Don't make me block you....

The real reason neither party want a progressive candidate is because they would have the ability to...

Paul4747 comments on May 3, 2019:

Or possibly because the Republican party is not a party of progressives, but conservatives who are unlikely to nominate a progressive... and because the Democrats realize that a minority of the country are what *you* define as "progressive", so they need to appeal to the center to win an election ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

@Paul4747 Nader didn't lose it for Gore. A bunch of old people accidentally voting for Buchanan instead of Gore on the butterfly ballots, plus the Supreme Court is what lost it for Gore, along with a shitty campaign by Gore. Quit blaming Nader for it, he was the least at fault of any of those I listed. Looks like we are much the same except for politics, of course. you're obviously not a socialist like me.

EDIT: I put this in the relationship forum.

Paul4747 comments on May 3, 2019:

I realize I'm not going to the point of your post, but- does it really matter how "different" you are from other people? You're *you.* I'm me. I realized decades ago that I'm smarter (or at least know a lot more facts; not necessarily the same thing all the time) than most people around me; I like ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

@Paul4747 What is Firefly? Never heard of it.

The real reason neither party want a progressive candidate is because they would have the ability to...

Paul4747 comments on May 3, 2019:

Or possibly because the Republican party is not a party of progressives, but conservatives who are unlikely to nominate a progressive... and because the Democrats realize that a minority of the country are what *you* define as "progressive", so they need to appeal to the center to win an election ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

If the Dems are wise and well-meaning enough, which I really doubt, to nominate Bernie, then your theory will finally be put to the test for the first time since 1972 when they nominated McGovern. Personally, I think Bernie could and probably would beat Trump if nominated, even with the whole corporate media machine against him, which they would predictably do as well as the Dem party not giving Bernie much or any support. But we will never know unless he gets nominated. My hunch is that if Bernie got nominated and allowed to be in the prez debates, unlike Nader who never got that chance, that most of the eligible non-voters, who are mostly poor and lean left, would come out and vote for him. That is the factor that would defy your analysis of lefties being such a minority on the bell curve. Because in that scenario what counts is who votes and who doesn't, not the normal bell curve of political opinion in America.

EDIT: I put this in the relationship forum.

Paul4747 comments on May 3, 2019:

I realize I'm not going to the point of your post, but- does it really matter how "different" you are from other people? You're *you.* I'm me. I realized decades ago that I'm smarter (or at least know a lot more facts; not necessarily the same thing all the time) than most people around me; I like ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

You sound a lot like you are describing me. I bet we both have the same challenges in finding someone compatible to date. It's tough finding someone else just as offbeat.

We could all learn a lot from Pooh, Piglet and Eeyore It occurred to Pooh 🐻 and Piglet 🐷 ...

TomMcGiverin comments on May 3, 2019:

The sad truth is that in real life few Eeyores have friends like that. Even here on Agnostic, I have seen members mocked and kicked when they were feeling down for openly sharing about how bad they felt. They were even compared to Eeyore. Tis a pity. Which is why I will never share like that again ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

@ShadowAmicus Thank you mate, I appreciate that.

EDIT: I put this in the relationship forum.

LiterateHiker comments on May 3, 2019:

Love yourself and don't worry about comparing yourself to other people. All my life, I have felt like I don't belong on this planet. I'm too sensitive, intelligent, high energy, intense and optimistic. As a Democrat, feminist, environmental and atheist, I'm a fish out of water in ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

I more or less make the same efforts to spend time around and meet other people similar to me. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to help any in finding someone compatible to date. The groups are too small a pool. I know that is not the focus of your comment or your main intent in joining the groups, just sharing my experience.

One day, somebody will be 100% honest with you🤗

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 28, 2019:

I had that with my late wife, but I have little hope now of finding that again with someone, like HippieChick says..

TomMcGiverin replies on May 2, 2019:

@DevraisA1 Thank you. I wish I lived near a number of women my age that I have run across on Agnostic.

The Judean People’s Front still alive and kicking. Extinction?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 28, 2019:

I realize that nobody will get this Monty Python reference to the Judean People's Front unless they have seen Monty Python's movie Life Of Brian, but thank you for including it anyway. Yes, the spirit of that absurd parody of a totally self-absorbed, insular and ineffectual political splinter group ...