Hi Folks, w I've noticed lots of angnst with on line dating, even just on line chatting.

Deiter comments on Apr 27, 2019:

To meet people in public, especially after a certain age, is to cast an awfully wide net. I've encountered many great women in my various circles, like parents at my kids' school – and NONE of them were single. Well, one was. And she came onto many of the dads (incl me). But that's another ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@Ron_R I can see that advantage of meeting women in person over online and the reason for that is in person you are not competing against dozens or even over a hundred other men at the same time with one woman. The woman that meets you in person is only sizing you up at the time against her own personal standards, whatever they may be. If one has the ease, confidence, etc., I can see how an average-looking guy has more of a shot there with most women than they will ever get with online paid sites. But I don't have that kind of confidence, patience, skills, etc. to want to rely mostly on that when so much of the time it will yield little more than a possible friendship, if even that because the woman is either unavailable, not looking, or, in my case most often, too mainstream to be a match for me. This has been a very interesting and enlightening discussion for me, thanks Ron.

Hi Folks, w I've noticed lots of angnst with on line dating, even just on line chatting.

Deiter comments on Apr 27, 2019:

To meet people in public, especially after a certain age, is to cast an awfully wide net. I've encountered many great women in my various circles, like parents at my kids' school – and NONE of them were single. Well, one was. And she came onto many of the dads (incl me). But that's another ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@Ron_R I like talking to people in person too. In fact I hate how texting seems to have replaced face to face conversation with most people, even many my own age. But as far as meeting women for dating, talking to women I meet thru random in person encounters just doesn't work for me. It is a good way to make friends, but as far as meeting compatible women for dating, just doesn't work for me because the encounters are still too rare to yield much of a chance in my area of meeting someone compatible. And a large part of that is because I am too offbeat from the mainstream of culture and lifestyle in my local area. In online dating I at least already have some info on the women to help me steer only towards the ones that appear to be compatible in those traits, even tho on Match those women are also a minority among the profiles and membership my age in my area.

We're on a road to destruction if we don't make changes.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 27, 2019:

I agree with most of what you posted here, esp. about the purposes of the site and how politically conservative members are likely to feel outnumbered and marginalized on here. However, as a socialist, I am not going to mute or change what I post to appease them. I don't know how to change that ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@Admin With all due respect and in all honesty, you kind of lost me with what you said there. I am not being snarky or trying to be cute, I honestly am a little confused. Please do not respond with sarcasm, even tho I know that is the common currency on here when someone says they don't get something that was said.

Hi Folks, w I've noticed lots of angnst with on line dating, even just on line chatting.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 27, 2019:

Good luck with that. While I don't close the door on meeting someone organically offline, I don't make an effort to look for or to meet women that way, because I know the number of opportunities and the depth of the dating pool thru that are both so limited. So instead I put my effort and hope ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@Ron_R Well, you have thicker skin and more confidence than me. My late wife used to say that it seemed to her like I could talk to any stranger, male or female. But that was before she got ill and we went thru her disease and suffering. I am not like I used to be before that and also even before I met her I had gotten tired of being shot down by women I was approaching with interest. I am not up for doing that again, even if they are alone when I meet them. Being shot down is even worse if you approach a woman in a group of women. Best to you too.

Hmmm...interesting observation. It made me laugh, anyway!

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 27, 2019:

I'm very impatient about some things, more patient than most on some other things. I also have never grown or wanted a beard. What does that say about me?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@sloryd Thanks, man. I was just trying to be a little humorous, but I guess I didn't impress MK at all....

Hi Folks, w I've noticed lots of angnst with on line dating, even just on line chatting.

Robecology comments on Apr 27, 2019:

You can't beat on line dating....and if you're 100% honest...there's far less "angst" than going out and trying to meet and make friends and potential lovers at random. I was single in the 70's for a few years...again in the 80's...and again in the 90's. !st time...the bar scene was the only...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

Have to disagree some Rob. I am totally honest in my profile on Match, but I still have angst about the online dating experience, maybe because I need better pics in my profile, I dunno.....Or maybe I'm confusing angst with hurt and disappointment at all the rejection and lack of success in even finding one woman in 19 months that has enough in common, including mutual attraction, interests, and values/lifestyle to even begin going on a real date and having sex seem like something that might be on the horizon. It's never gone beyond the third meeting with anyone except for one person that was clearly mutual friendzone after the first meeting. As one guy said to me this morning before the monthly meeting of a local Meetup group for singles began, "Why should I pay for an online dating site for the privilege of being ignored?" He was referring to the one big flaw of online dating with sites like Match or whatever, namely that for average-looking people like him or me, that we get overlooked, as do women who are below-average looking, for all the other members who are better-looking and thus, never really or only rarely meet anyone thru the site. The common problem is that online dating provides way more info than offline organic meetings, but it also provides so many choices of people to pick that only the most visually attractive get attention and interest from most of the members.

Hi Folks, w I've noticed lots of angnst with on line dating, even just on line chatting.

Deiter comments on Apr 27, 2019:

To meet people in public, especially after a certain age, is to cast an awfully wide net. I've encountered many great women in my various circles, like parents at my kids' school – and NONE of them were single. Well, one was. And she came onto many of the dads (incl me). But that's another ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

I think you may have had a typo Deiter, did you mean to say that % of women ARE married, rather than unmarried? Because you say later that over half are married. Please clarify. Plus, you also have to consider how many of those women are so old dating is out of the picture.

We're on a road to destruction if we don't make changes.

CeliaVL comments on Apr 27, 2019:

On Facebook when I put how I am feeling in a status update, I feel safe doing that because it is going to be seen only by my friends and family, and I feel confident of their support. Here if it was open to everyone rather than a Group I already know I would be talking to strangers and I would be ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

Good point. That is kind of what I was trying to say I was concerned about, that some viewers of these updates would be cruel or insensitive to people posting anything personal and vulnerable. Some of us non-believers are not the most kind, fair, or moral people. Also there is the concern that some people will be too much exhibitionist for their own ego or whatever. Good taste is always underserved most of the time by viewers and those who share. I used to share honestly and openly, probably too much so for the audience of the general forum in Love And Relationships, about some of the hurtful and upsetting things I experienced with online dating. And every time I could count on at least a few people lining up to ridicule or bash me for being vulnerable. There are some jerks on this site, both male and female, who simply love to kick someone when they are down because they are, at their core, kind of sadistic and callous. So there is always that risk, and I would myself be cautious about how deeply I shared in a status update.

Two new moderator features for groups: "Most post to author's profile page" and "Deny Post".

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 26, 2019:

Good luck with that. You have have a lot more faith in human nature than I do. Same thing with feeling you can trust all the group moderators to be fair with all members. Now watch everybody feel they have to walk on eggshells instead of being honest or outspoken. It was nice while it lasted....The ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 26, 2019:

@GuyKeith That would be nice if the rules in each group were clearly spelled out and enforced fairly and consistently, but that's often not the case, Keith. Like most things in life, it often comes down to personalities and favoritism over what is actually in the rules. Like in most of my jobs I've had. Where the boss had all the power and the only power I had was to quit. So glad I'm retired and finally free of all that.

What does everyone think of the Satanic Temple being granted tax exemption as a church recently?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 26, 2019:

I see it this way, the Christian Bible says" Want of money is the root of all evil". And all of us in America are well aware of how what most Americans really worship, is money, rather than God. Hence, if what most Americans actually worship is something the Bible says is evil, why shouldn't a ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 26, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 I stand corrected, thank you.

What does everyone think of the Satanic Temple being granted tax exemption as a church recently?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 26, 2019:

I see it this way, the Christian Bible says" Want of money is the root of all evil". And all of us in America are well aware of how what most Americans really worship, is money, rather than God. Hence, if what most Americans actually worship is something the Bible says is evil, why shouldn't a ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 26, 2019:

@bootaski Fine. I still enjoy the irony.

What does everyone think of the Satanic Temple being granted tax exemption as a church recently?

O_ophelia comments on Apr 25, 2019:

Personally, I think its hilarious and I hope that its making other church officials walk around with puckered b-holes, but I am rather jaded in general, I suppose.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 26, 2019:

I always love it when I see someone stick it to smug, arrogant assholes, be they Christian, Atheists, or politicians that fit that description, they're all the same to me.

What does everyone think of the Satanic Temple being granted tax exemption as a church recently?

Lutherzme comments on Apr 26, 2019:

Makes me want to start a church....who wants to get rich with me, thankya jeezussss!

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 26, 2019:

@powder I remember driving by a "church" in my hometown that was really a bingo parlor in an old grocery store. But they still got recognized as an official, tax exempt church because they did have a so-called minister and claimed to even hold "services", which were more likely just bingo games. Ah, American ingenuity.......

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Step 1: Call yourself the “Grim Reaper for socialist legislation”...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 25, 2019:

Always hated this guy. I know it's not PC on this site to put down someone's looks, but to me he's always appeared to be a cross-breed of a turtle and a jackass, with a personality that matches....

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 25, 2019:

@dan325 Good point. They are innocent and decent creatures...

What type of lover do you want?

1GodlessWoman comments on Apr 23, 2019:

Republicans turn me on.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 25, 2019:

As a non-believing conservative, you are going to find most men on here are lefties, but there are also a lot who aren't. Finding a man to date or meet will depend on where you live and if you will date LD.

Yes, we removed the general forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Unless it's a typo or I'm misreading your post, admin., what you seem to by saying with this decision is that now all the moderating will be done at the group level rather than the site level. What this change does is give almighty power to the group moderators to act like petty tyrants, which some ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@Triphid As one of my high school sports coaches once said, " If you give a small man a small job, he'll turn it into a cabinet-level position" and my experience has proven that truer words were never spoken.

Yes, we removed the general forum.

David1955 comments on Apr 24, 2019:

So, this is no longer a Community, but a collection of groups. That is sad. Will someone please set up a *Group* called *"Community"*, we'll all join, and we go back to where we were. Thanks Also, I remember the Good Ole Days when we were asked what we thought about possible changes. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@KKGator Guess that explains it, I thought as much.

Yes, we removed the general forum.

David1955 comments on Apr 24, 2019:

So, this is no longer a Community, but a collection of groups. That is sad. Will someone please set up a *Group* called *"Community"*, we'll all join, and we go back to where we were. Thanks Also, I remember the Good Ole Days when we were asked what we thought about possible changes. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@KKGator Yup, two of them showed up in this discussion to troll me and rub it in now that they've won. One of them was even someone I had blocked. Is this some special group that even the comments of those you've blocked are displayed?

Yes, we removed the general forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Unless it's a typo or I'm misreading your post, admin., what you seem to by saying with this decision is that now all the moderating will be done at the group level rather than the site level. What this change does is give almighty power to the group moderators to act like petty tyrants, which some ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@TCorCM Thanks for suggesting and trying to help. What I really need is a non-believers dating site with a decent-sized pool of local members.

Yes, we removed the general forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Unless it's a typo or I'm misreading your post, admin., what you seem to by saying with this decision is that now all the moderating will be done at the group level rather than the site level. What this change does is give almighty power to the group moderators to act like petty tyrants, which some ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@TCorCM What is CC?

Yes, we removed the general forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Unless it's a typo or I'm misreading your post, admin., what you seem to by saying with this decision is that now all the moderating will be done at the group level rather than the site level. What this change does is give almighty power to the group moderators to act like petty tyrants, which some ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@MsDemeanour My experience with the admin. team, such as it was, seemed the opposite of petty, dictatorial group mods. If anything they were too passive as I messaged them a few times about concerns and they never took any action regarding members. Only heard back from one of my inquiries and it was not about a member, but about site service.

Yes, we removed the general forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Unless it's a typo or I'm misreading your post, admin., what you seem to by saying with this decision is that now all the moderating will be done at the group level rather than the site level. What this change does is give almighty power to the group moderators to act like petty tyrants, which some ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@Triphid I agree with you that I have really enjoyed this site until now. In fact, it had mostly replaced my local Unitarian church as a community of interesting and smart, friendly people that I always looked forward to visiting, only without all the classism, snobbery, and cliqueshness of that congregation. I hope you are wrong about it becoming like FB, but I'm not hopeful. Oh well, I was thinking this site was too good to be true, even with no real local dating options.

Yes, we removed the general forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Unless it's a typo or I'm misreading your post, admin., what you seem to by saying with this decision is that now all the moderating will be done at the group level rather than the site level. What this change does is give almighty power to the group moderators to act like petty tyrants, which some ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@brentan I am not going to kiss the ass of any group mods to stay in a group and I doubt many other members will either. The decision to make them all-powerful will probably have bad consequences for the site.

Yes, we removed the general forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Unless it's a typo or I'm misreading your post, admin., what you seem to by saying with this decision is that now all the moderating will be done at the group level rather than the site level. What this change does is give almighty power to the group moderators to act like petty tyrants, which some ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@Hastur Already had that done to me and a few others with a group mod that was trigger happy for booting people. Now, with the general forum gone, the only way I can see and post about dating experiences is to start my own group or join a small, fairly inactive group to post and read about it. The number of groups will be staggering and too much for a member to keep track of just to browse for posts and comments on even just a few topics.

I dont like kissing. It feels and looks stupid. Anyone else feel this way?

St-Sinner comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Please be clear. Kissing on the lips is one type, there are many ways and types of kiss. Kiss my ass for example.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

Well said sir, you are a fellow professional smart ass....Sadly, the last several years I have spent way more time telling others to kiss my ass than kissing the lips of a woman, 'tis a pity......

Religious People On Dating Websites Are All Like...

KKGator comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I had to Google Joyce Meyer. I could have gone the rest of my life without knowing who she is, and I would have been completely content in my ignorance of her existence.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@KKGator Sounds good. I always Carvey on SNL and thought he was very funny, as was his sidekick Mike Myers.

As I prepare for a new relationship...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 21, 2019:

As least you are more honest about it than most of the women's profiles I encounter on Match.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@Deiter Not that much difference, but then again I have only met 6 in person over 19 months now. A very small sample size. I don't feel confident about answering you on that because of it being so few.

LDR (Long DIstance Romance) tell me your personal experience of the positive ones ONLY! I have one ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 21, 2019:

I am curious what your purpose is in only hearing positive experiences. Are you trying to get up the courage to attempt another LDR? I can't offer you anything on that because I have never really attempted an LDR and am not willing or interested in attempting one ever in the future.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@ArtzyNerd That's what I thought. I respect how you are gathering the evidence to make a rational decision. I think you will choose wisely for you, whatever you decide. Keep us posted and I hope whatever you choose works out well for you.

Religious People On Dating Websites Are All Like...

KKGator comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I had to Google Joyce Meyer. I could have gone the rest of my life without knowing who she is, and I would have been completely content in my ignorance of her existence.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@KKGator Guess I was then. No offense meant.

Go back to college? Hmmmm.....

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 21, 2019:

I barely ever dated in college. Combination of being very serious about my studies and not having much confidence with women. The fact that I was never a big drinker may have also been a factor. Frank's advice may likely only apply to the more cool and better-looking guys than to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 21, 2019:

@BoingoOingo42 Well all I can tell you is that if you try online dating around my area, you need to be at least above-average looking and drink socially, or else you are in for a lot of waiting around for women to return any interest to you or accept you for dating. Maybe your area is different, I hope so for your sake. Average-looking non-drinkers will be accepted by about 3% of the women in my area. Not being a social drinker is a strict requirement of about 97% of the profiles I have seen. If you don't fit that the women will assume you are either a recovering alcoholic or a judgemental teetotaler. Either way, you will be rejected for their assumptions. That's why I just took the advice of another Agnostic member who said she changed her profile trait to Social Drinker from Never, because she got tired of the assumptions others made about her. I also took out my profile essay's references to it, so we'll see how the experiment works.

Don't get worked up over things you can't change or people you can't change..........Agree/disagree?

Buxx comments on Apr 21, 2019:

I don't entirely agree. It sounds nice until I think about it. "Can't change" is such a fraught term. Before every revolution, people had to be convinced that something could be changed. So instead of assuming you can't change something, ask yourself if it's worth attempting to change. Only if ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 21, 2019:

Changing society as a whole or changing the people you encounter on a daily or regular basis are two different things. As far as changing the society, I agree with you on that basis. As far as people you see in your own dealings, I think that changing them really doesn't matter much, esp. if the answer is No.

The elders of this church got to design the church league softball shirts.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 21, 2019:

That is just too funny! Or maybe my mind is just too twisted......

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 21, 2019:

@Green_eyes Thank you, I'll take that as a compliment.

Estranged from family members... anyone experience this?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 20, 2019:

I think I started a thread about this a while back and seemed to get a lot of agreement from other members about being estranged from family. This is probably my # 1 dealbreaker that I run into with women from Match in my area, because everyone claims to be so damn family oriented and 75% also ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 21, 2019:

@mzbehavin My fear, Lee, is that even with a fellow non-conformist I may run into dealbeaker issues over things that are also part of being offbeat, in which the woman may be too different from me, like being vegan and not accepting that I still eat meat and fish. Also, a non-conformist woman in other ways might still be a social drinker and not accept my non-drinking. When you take a hard look at it, it's amazing that any of us non-conformists can find anyone compatible because even in our non-conformist subcultures there are dealbreaker differences that exist between us on personal values and lifestyle.

Estranged from family members... anyone experience this?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 20, 2019:

I think I started a thread about this a while back and seemed to get a lot of agreement from other members about being estranged from family. This is probably my # 1 dealbreaker that I run into with women from Match in my area, because everyone claims to be so damn family oriented and 75% also ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 20, 2019:

@mzbehavin Thank you for the compliment. I really am up against a huge numbers disadvantage living in the Des Moines area of Iowa, because there seem to be so few hipster, non-conformist women my age who are on Match or even available and interested in dating anyone. I know that if I lived in a more hip, less conservative or traditional larger city like Minneapolis or Chicago, my chances would probably be very good. But I won't date LD or move for anyone. I need my friends too badly...

Anyone can be had (sexually) given the right time and circumstance. True or not true??

hippydog comments on Apr 18, 2019:

Not true.. some are just out of my league..

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 20, 2019:

@freeofgod Maybe no one's out of his league, but I've had it proven in spades too many times on Match that many women are out of MY league. But Gwendolyn has confirmed that I have a lot of company in that among both sexes, so it hurts a little less.....

Estranged from family members... anyone experience this?

HippieChick58 comments on Apr 20, 2019:

My transition from xian to atheist didn't have any effect on any relationships. My kids were already non believers, non of my sibs are believers or were simply social xians. They went to church for community, not because they believed. My parents were not strong believers, and they have already ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 20, 2019:

You were luckier than most of us with our families of origin. I am happy for you!

How can we encourage people to be more honest about their agnosticism?

Kafirah comments on Apr 20, 2019:

To openly declare yourself agnostic or atheist in today's religious climate requires a certain level of courage most do not possess. The courage to lose everyone in your life that matters. The courage to be an outcast among your peers. The courage to stand against the world alone. The courage to ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 20, 2019:

Coming out these days as a non-believer takes a similar courage to coming out as LGBT was maybe a decade or two ago as far as the non-acceptance, likelihood of rejection and retaliation, not that coming out as either is ever easy these days. Most people don't have the courage and that's why a lot of our society is filled with people that don't have integrity or courage and know they are living a lie in some way by conforming to the mainstream. If most people had that kind of guts, our mainstream values and lifestyles might be very different than what we see now. But most people are more content to conform than be authentic in how they live and how they are known to others.

I haven't been here much lately.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

How did you meet him, on Agnostic? I would be very surprised if you did. Is he long distance or local? Seeing your location on your bio, I'm guessing he is LD and from Agnostic. His traits are so offbeat and rare among the general pop,, it sounds like you found a unicorn.....In my local area, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 20, 2019:

@SkotlandSkye So you are widowed like me? I went to support group for widowed people for several months, but quit going after that because, one, they all seemed very traditional and conformist, compared to me and most Agnostic.com types, and secondly, almost all the women were way older in their age or their thinking and acting. So I didn't see the point in continuing. Their informational programs at each meeting were boring and not telling me anything I didn't already know about grieving or widowed life. So the only two reasons to stay would have been to meet someone for dating or get support from the group. It was clear to me that neither of those were ever going to happen for me with all the cultural and age diffs between me and the group. Glad you ran into a better group that had at least one cool, hipster type in it. That was never going to happen for me in Des Moines Iowa.

BUTTIGIEG IS FULL OF SH-T -- Seeing as how PB is surging in the polls based, I believe, on ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

Mayor Pete is being promoted by the corporate media and the Dem party's leaders and establishment as the golden boy because it's all part of a move by those groups and the Dem's big money donors to stop Bernie at all costs without having to kill him or attack him directly. So, yes, there is nothing ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Sgt_Spanky Same here.I know my enemies, and who I can trust or not as a socialist and progressive by the company they keep. If Wall Street, corporate America, the corporate media, the Dem leaders and establishment, and the big money donors all hate and fear Bernie, then I know that he's the right one for me and is on my side. Same with Pete and the company he keeps and who supports him tells me he is not on my side and not to be trusted.

BUTTIGIEG IS FULL OF SH-T -- Seeing as how PB is surging in the polls based, I believe, on ...

A2Jennifer comments on Apr 19, 2019:

Bernie would be better for the progressive cause *IF* he could get elected but it’s centrists and independents that will swing the election and I would rather have literally anyone who will beat Trump than have my ideal candidate lose to him.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

He would, of course, have all the corporate media against him as well as possibly even the Dem party against him, but if Bernie got into the presidential debates he would wipe the floor with Trump, as would have Nader if he had ever got the chance during the times he ran. The reason Bernie could still win after that even if the groups I mentioned were against him is that his message of hope and actually fighting for the poor and working class would motivate most of those who don't vote anymore because they are poor and feel otherwise not represented or cared about by either party, and thus, we would suddenly have 75% or higher, maybe 90%, of eligible voters turn out. And Bernie would get most of those former non-voters. We normally get about a 50% turnout in a prez election and that's because the groups I mentioned have figured out that neither party cares about them and given up voting. Before the 1970s, we used to have way higher turnouts, but then the Dems lost credibility with those groups so they stopped voting.

I haven't been here much lately.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

How did you meet him, on Agnostic? I would be very surprised if you did. Is he long distance or local? Seeing your location on your bio, I'm guessing he is LD and from Agnostic. His traits are so offbeat and rare among the general pop,, it sounds like you found a unicorn.....In my local area, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@SkotlandSkye Still didn't say how you met him. Online, chance meeting in public, at a gym, what? You are correct that you beat overwhelming odds in meeting someone so compatible so close by in OK.

When I was small, growing up on a Haiti mission in the 1950s and 60s, we children sometimes played ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

If I had your psychic ability I would use it to track down the one or few people in my area that were compatible for me to date and mentally influence them to want to meet me. By that logic you should already have found your match(es).

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@birdingnut I think we are very different from each other that way, you and I. I will leave it at that and respectfully disagree with you.

I was flipping through channels and briefly paused on the ID channel (true crime.

wordywalt comments on Apr 19, 2019:

White southern cordiality extends only to fellow white believers and defenders of the conservative and racist southern order. I know, as I grew up in the rural south, and saw the same all throughout the region.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

I believe you and it's all as phony as "Iowa Nice" in my state. It's mean-spirited and judgemental hidden behind fake politeness and a smile, all of which disappears as soon they discover you are different than them. I have rejected it my whole adult life as an Iowan. It is also a companion of the Midwest-wide norm of enforced politeness, in which you are a terrible person should you ever be really honest, confrontational, or assertive in a social setting.

Just to Note: I think I was just Blocked by someone.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

According to my current count, I have now blocked 11 people and am probably blocked now by at least half that many or more. I really no longer care about either of those things. I have strong opinions and I state them on the boards without mincing words. Nowadays, on Agnostic, it seems like many ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Deiter Now you know...

Just to Note: I think I was just Blocked by someone.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

According to my current count, I have now blocked 11 people and am probably blocked now by at least half that many or more. I really no longer care about either of those things. I have strong opinions and I state them on the boards without mincing words. Nowadays, on Agnostic, it seems like many ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Deiter With me personally or on the boards in general?

Are there any elementary education teachers out there?

Deiter comments on Apr 19, 2019:

This discussion has become a battlefield. Some see it as a denial of their right for existence. And don't think the Right Wing media isn't lapping it up. Good luck with that! https://youtu.be/4WEnYPIrfb4

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Deiter Hell, I've seen and even got caught up in dramas like this on these boards before. No wonder I end up having to block as many as I have. Same kind of intolerance as in the video.

The joys of dating. 😞😝

maturin1919 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

It's like that in your 30s too.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

I can believe that too. I dated unsuccessfully for 20 years, usually wanting an LTR without any success, before I met my late wife. Mainly couldn't find an LTR or anyone compatible because I didn't want kids or someone who already had them. So that dealbreaker made it impossible, esp. here in Iowa, where being childless by choice is very rare and seen as just as weird and immoral as being a non-believer, esp. during the ages when most people are wanting and having kids together.

Just to get through Friday.

Petter comments on Apr 19, 2019:

Last time I bought what is within out into the world I got arrested for indecent exposure!

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 Glad I'm retired. Any day can now be a vacation and I also now have the money to travel on one. Just need to find a traveling companion or book a trip for singles.

Are there any elementary education teachers out there?

Deiter comments on Apr 19, 2019:

This discussion has become a battlefield. Some see it as a denial of their right for existence. And don't think the Right Wing media isn't lapping it up. Good luck with that! https://youtu.be/4WEnYPIrfb4

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

Some people need to grow a thicker skin. This video showed how the role of SJW and aggrieved victim can be taken to the point of the absurd. It was almost like an old Monty Python sketch for absurdity. Well done as always my friend..

Just watching 2nd marriage go down the toilet, thinking, really?

Aryn comments on Apr 18, 2019:

They say , “All the good ones are married.” Are you one of the good ones? Can I get my order in early?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

I hope all the good ones aren't married, because right now I'm still a little too young for most of the widows in my area and I really don't want to have to wait a few more years or more until more of the husbands die off.......

Just watching 2nd marriage go down the toilet, thinking, really?

MaxPower comments on Apr 18, 2019:

I still believe marriage licenses should be renewable. Lawyers would be minimum wage. Even 4 year renewals would cut divorce and spousal murder rates down. Its too bad "god" choose trump instead of me to lead this nation.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@MaxPower What is ASD?

The joys of dating. 😞😝

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

At our age, it is more of a dating puddle.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Sticks48 I can imagine, just like acting. So many talented people trying and so relatively few that ever get rich out of it or even make enough dough to quit their day job, for that matter.....

The joys of dating. 😞😝

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

At our age, it is more of a dating puddle.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Sticks48 I've heard that most other musicians aren't either. Except maybe the relative few who become big, wealthy stars......

The joys of dating. 😞😝

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

At our age, it is more of a dating puddle.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Sticks48 As Kurt Vonnegurt would say, like I give a flying fuck what most other people think about my patriotism or lack of conformity......

The joys of dating. 😞😝

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

At our age, it is more of a dating puddle.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Sticks48 We are a tiny minority, at least in most areas of the US. I now have the money to live much less cheaply than ever before, but I doubt I will change much in my habits or lifestyle, except maybe start taking a few nice trips each year.

The joys of dating. 😞😝

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

At our age, it is more of a dating puddle.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

The pool in my area is fairly deep, as long as you are mainstream in your culture and lifestyle, but if you aren't, like me and most people on Agnostic, who are non-religious, hipsters, not very family-oriented, intellectual, etc., it really is more like a puddle. Esp. when in my case you also add in non-drinker as well, not matter how tolerant and open-minded I am about it. Not being very materialistic doesn't help at all either. The pool on Agnostic is very wide, but about an inch deep, so it's all LD or nothing on here for most of us.

[heyalma.com] My date with a Jewish doctor went horribly wrong. A funny story.

BufftonBeotch comments on Apr 18, 2019:

Why does Jewish have anything to do with the story?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

@sassygirl3869 I'm not surprise to hear that Lisa. You're probably better off, like most women, from having stayed away from them.

Are we great again yet?

greyeyed123 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

Our local news station (owned by conservative Sinclair Broadcast Group) really went all out to spin it all in Trump's favor. The only negative thing they reported was Trump saying "I'm fucked", but they buried it so far into the story that it seemed as if Trump was being persecuted, not blurting ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

What, you mean that repulsive piece of slime got "fucked" by a woman other than his wife where he didn't actually have to pay her? I must have missed some details in the news or maybe I'm not getting the context.... ( sarcasm alert)

Are we great again yet?

SeaGreenEyez comments on Apr 18, 2019:

That is definitely a Trump Supporter personified. She put a bumpersticker on her hat. Oy vey. *smh* (After looking at her again, I'm wondering if that's actually Michael Moore in disguise.) 😛

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

I resemble that remark, since I've often been told that Michael Moore and I seem to share the same wardrobe most of the time, except when he wears a suit or a suitjacket (we are both men who dress like slobs and are not great-looking) as well as wearing ballcaps when it's warm outside. I have to say that Michael is noticeably better looking than her, so don't go hating on Michael like that, lol! Even if I do get frustrated sometimes with his tendency to compromise with the Dems on politics. Looking at this pic of the Trumper gal reminds me of that movie Shallow Hal, as in very unattractive inside and out..., esp. inside....

[heyalma.com] My date with a Jewish doctor went horribly wrong. A funny story.

BufftonBeotch comments on Apr 18, 2019:

Why does Jewish have anything to do with the story?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

@BufftonBeotch I agree. The repetition was needless and annoying. After finishing the story, I came away feeling that neither she or the doctor were any real prize for someone to date.

[heyalma.com] My date with a Jewish doctor went horribly wrong. A funny story.

BufftonBeotch comments on Apr 18, 2019:

Why does Jewish have anything to do with the story?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

I believe that the woman telling the story was Jewish, so it was a big deal for her to have found someone Jewish to date. She also seemed to think it was a big deal to date a doctor. See my comments below regarding that part.

[heyalma.com] My date with a Jewish doctor went horribly wrong. A funny story.

Boxdoc comments on Apr 18, 2019:

Some, but not all, men are attracted to women with large breasts regardless of their personality. They are looking for someone attractive to mate with. Some, but not all, women are attracted to men with large wallets regardless of their personality. They are looking for someone to provide for them....

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

And it's also the truth, as I have seen it. Thanks for the blunt honesty.

IF I HAD IT TO DO OVER AGAIN -- I'd be a teen heartthrob like Justin Bieber was.

altschmerz comments on Apr 17, 2019:

I tried to listen to a couple of Justin Bieber songs. They were absolute rubbish. Worst "music" I've ever heard. I doubt he would have gotten anywhere if he didn't have looks.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

@altschmerz Well, I already know some of the songs I want at my memorial service. And they include Hallelujah with Leonard Cohen's own version. What's Good by Lou Reed, and a few others that don't immediately come to mind. It will all be pretty offbeat stuff.

IF I HAD IT TO DO OVER AGAIN -- I'd be a teen heartthrob like Justin Bieber was.

altschmerz comments on Apr 17, 2019:

I tried to listen to a couple of Justin Bieber songs. They were absolute rubbish. Worst "music" I've ever heard. I doubt he would have gotten anywhere if he didn't have looks.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

His appeal was always about his looks, unlike, say Elvis, or Springsteen, who could both really sing well when they were young. They both had way more talent than him and better songs. In Elvis's case, he used the best songwriters around for some of his songs.

Poll: Church membership in US plummets over past 20 years. A look at the numbers. | News | omaha.com

IAJO163 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

Black churches will continue to be full because everybody will come for the show!

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

I don't think the show is all of it. Another big part is that for many black folks, the church is also more of a source of support and aid to the black community than white churches are for white folks. In other words, for blacks, the church may also serve as sort of a United Way/SalvationArmy/Human Services agency for its members, not just as a place of worship and entertainment. But I'm just a white guy going by observation, research, and second hand info...

[heyalma.com] My date with a Jewish doctor went horribly wrong. A funny story.

Hathacat comments on Apr 18, 2019:

That's a funny story?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

I agree, it's not funny. This woman made a fool of herself and let herself get used by a jerk who (figuratively, pun intended) blew her off after she did (blew off) him. Not funny at all, but what do I know, my recent dating career is a disaster....

PRO-BERNIE -- THIS'LL MAKE YOU MAD -- I love Bernie.

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

He sunk himself. He couldn't get black voters. lf you are a Dem and don't get the black voters support, you won't win. Don't forget, he is not a Democrat. He is a registered Independent. I like Bernie, but he fucked himself, and I will vote for which ever person gets the nomination.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

@Sticks48 I hope you are right about Bernie not being taken out, but I won't hold my breath if he gets too close to power. I agree with you about the Repub estab. wanting anyone but Cruz or Trump for the nomination last time.

PRO-BERNIE -- THIS'LL MAKE YOU MAD -- I love Bernie.

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

He sunk himself. He couldn't get black voters. lf you are a Dem and don't get the black voters support, you won't win. Don't forget, he is not a Democrat. He is a registered Independent. I like Bernie, but he fucked himself, and I will vote for which ever person gets the nomination.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

@Sticks48 Sticks I honestly don't think going after them more or differently would have helped Bernie or made any diff in 2016 with most black voters. Their group loyalty to Bill was too strong and they were going to support Hillary no matter what over Bernie because she was married to Bill, even tho I think that whole relationship is a fraud/charade based on convenience and political ambition, but that's another discussion...I really hope Bernie succeeds this time, but I'm a born cynic and I also wouldn't be surprised if Bernie suffered a convenient heart attack (with some help from the powers that be) if he did get the nomination, got close to the general election, or won the general election. Also, after seeing what happened to Mel Carnahan and Paul Wellstone, I would advise Bernie to start staying away from small aircraft. Call me paranoid, but I have seen too much history of what happens to people who buck the status quo too much and piss off the wrong evil people, like Cheney, for example....

PRO-BERNIE -- THIS'LL MAKE YOU MAD -- I love Bernie.

cava comments on Apr 18, 2019:

"Bernie Sanders because hindsight is 2020." It appears as though Dem establishment money is falling behind Mayor Pete https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/17/pete-buttigieg-enlists-barack-obama-hillary-clinton-fundraisers-for-2020-campaign.html

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

It figures, all the same people who supported the corrupt Hillary and the equally corrupt, lying fraud Obama, both corporate Dems, would be behind Pete, so even more reason for progressives to distrust Pete. They'll probably succeed in screwing Bernie again, with the help of the corporate media as well, from getting the nomination and Trump will win, which is what the Dem leaders and their big money and corporate donors really want. Which is why I never feel bad for them or their centrist supporters when they lose to the Repubs in a prez election. Because they get what they really deserve and were asking for.

PRO-BERNIE -- THIS'LL MAKE YOU MAD -- I love Bernie.

Sticks48 comments on Apr 18, 2019:

He sunk himself. He couldn't get black voters. lf you are a Dem and don't get the black voters support, you won't win. Don't forget, he is not a Democrat. He is a registered Independent. I like Bernie, but he fucked himself, and I will vote for which ever person gets the nomination.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

Sticks I really like and respect you man, but I have to disagree with you on this one. Here's why: Yes, I totally agree that a candidate for the Dem nomination has to have about all the support from black voters in the primaries to win the nomination and Bernie didn't have that, tho he did have the support of a lot of black women in the nursing unions because of his support for single payer health care. But it wasn't his fault or anything he did that cost him the support of most blacks for the nomination. It was the fact that he was running against Bill Clinton's wife, who most blacks were going to support instead of him no matter what Bernie did, out of longtime loyalty to Bill, who was always very popular with blacks, had many blacks serve in his administration, and many personal friends who are black. Their group loyalty and support was transferred to Hillary, that simple. As I remember it, back when Bill was prez, he was seen by many blacks as the unofficial "first black president".

Agree or disagree?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 17, 2019:

Would be nice, but it now seems pretty unlikely. Seems like few singles take the opportunity after a divorce or breakup to get some counseling or therapy so they go right back out to the dating market without taking a look at themselves, learning anything new about themselves or how to treat others,...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 It seems like nowadays the women don't talk about having emotional scars in their profile essays. Maybe they did in the last century on dating sites, but I wouldn't know as I was married then.

Agree or disagree?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 17, 2019:

Would be nice, but it now seems pretty unlikely. Seems like few singles take the opportunity after a divorce or breakup to get some counseling or therapy so they go right back out to the dating market without taking a look at themselves, learning anything new about themselves or how to treat others,...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 18, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 Trust me, it has changed a lot since then, except for the fact that most of the profile essays in my area say the same things. One diff is that they all want a social drinker, not a sober man. The walking on the beach part is still there, along with wanting a family man with kids who likes to travel and is a non-smoker. They aren't looking for instant sex, but don't indicate they want a shoulder to cry on Employment is also desired. Wait a minute, did I say things had changed, lol? Thank goodness the speedos are at least gone.....

White Privilege Is it real? Please answer honestly.

LiterateHiker comments on Apr 17, 2019:

*Of course* white privilege is real. As a white person, I don't worry about: 1. Being harassed, beat up or called racist names due to the color of my skin. 2. While driving, get stopped by police for no reason, and fear being shot and killed. 3. Discriminated against in housing, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 17, 2019:

Well defined Kathleen....

Agree or disagree?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 17, 2019:

Would be nice, but it now seems pretty unlikely. Seems like few singles take the opportunity after a divorce or breakup to get some counseling or therapy so they go right back out to the dating market without taking a look at themselves, learning anything new about themselves or how to treat others,...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 17, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 Well, I can only speak about the women's profile essays, since I've only seen a few of the men's, just checking out the competition once in a blue moon. Didn't get the impression that these women were hoping to get laid quickly after meeting men, but your point could well apply to most of the men's essays. I wouldn't know..... Maybe your point is that by projecting the attitude that the person is perfect to the members viewing their profile and that their failed relationship was all the fault of the other party, they will look more attractive and get laid. That does sound inept, but quite plausible. Please clarify I have this right.

Are you a ritual defier?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 17, 2019:

I really don't notice or care about trivial things like that. I probably do a lot of things in the course of a day that are done in a ritual manner of the same way every time, but I'm oblivious to it.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 17, 2019:

@azzow2 What is li?

White Privilege Is it real? Please answer honestly.

Neenz comments on Apr 17, 2019:

A friend once told me that we don't know what privilege we have till we lose it or step away from it. But how do we do so? He said beautiful people don't understand that power they have till they stop being beautiful if someone treated them fair they think the person is being rude because it's ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 17, 2019:

Thank you for mentioning that the beautiful and great-looking also have a form of privilege and power in the world, esp. in the dating game, even tho they and many other people who aren't great-looking seem unaware of this or refuse to acknowledge it. But I have seen it countless times in person and it's there. You're also right on the overall point, most are never aware of their privilege until they lose it. Stepping away from it and walking in the other person's shoes is something few will be willing to do voluntarily. Most people are too selfish and won't leave their comfort zone.

I really don't get it.

Moravian comments on Apr 16, 2019:

And the politicians are promoting it to their advantage. Nationalism or "populism" as it is being called now is very damaging.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@Moravian Your opinion is noted and still disagreed with. I am not talking about politicians, I am talking about oligarchs and the ultra-rich, if they can be gotten to. Those people will never allow peaceful revolution to happen. They will instruct their bought politicians to crush the peaceful attempts at revolution thru the military and security forces the same way they did the Occupy Wall Street movement's camps. If you want to see a preview of the future should peaceful revolution be attempted by protests, there it was......

I really don't get it.

Moravian comments on Apr 16, 2019:

And the politicians are promoting it to their advantage. Nationalism or "populism" as it is being called now is very damaging.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@Moravian I don't think the rich and their politicians are going to allow that. That's why I mentioned assassinations. Maybe you are naive or I am too cynical. Time will tell.

I really don't get it.

Moravian comments on Apr 16, 2019:

And the politicians are promoting it to their advantage. Nationalism or "populism" as it is being called now is very damaging.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@Moravian Yeah, nationalism, racism, and xenophobia are all running well all over the globe as the oligarchs and their puppet politicians divide and conquer the masses during globalization's rein of terror over the planet by pitting one racial group or country against another. While all the billionaires gather at Davos and laugh at the suckers who fall for it and leave them blameless instead of fighting back against them with revolution or targeted assassinations.

Cute and funny! Watch the cats reaction. [youtu.be]

orange_girl comments on Apr 16, 2019:

That bird is pushing their luck. LOL

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

Kitty is ready to pounce if the bird weren't behind glass, with how that tail is wagging.

I really don't get it.

Lorajay comments on Apr 16, 2019:

Manipulation of the ego has always been very effective. People never want to feel like their bad luck is there fault. When it's obvious to a person that they are not special they readily accept the race issue so that they can hold on to some Glimmer of Pride.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@OwlInASack Thank you. LBJ, in some ways, was a great prez as he passed Medicare and Medicaid, along with all the Great Society anti-poverty programs. Also the Peace Corps (with JFK) and VISTA programs, the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. He also was pretty sharp for a guy born dirt poor in the hill country of east Texas who went to the state's teacher college instead of an Ivy League college like most of his political peers. If it weren't for Vietnam, he would be seen as one of the great American presidents.

I really don't get it.

Moravian comments on Apr 16, 2019:

And the politicians are promoting it to their advantage. Nationalism or "populism" as it is being called now is very damaging.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

Yeah, MAGA never fooled me. Should have had the guts to call a spade a spade and say it was Make America White Again, but wouldn't have sounded so high-minded and patriotic. All about the advertising angles.

I really don't get it.

Lorajay comments on Apr 16, 2019:

Manipulation of the ego has always been very effective. People never want to feel like their bad luck is there fault. When it's obvious to a person that they are not special they readily accept the race issue so that they can hold on to some Glimmer of Pride.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

Yup, that is why poor white trash, so to speak and rednecks fall for racism and all the Trump crap because it appeals to their anger and white pride so they can feel that glimmer of hope and pride that they are still better than others who are black or brown. As former president LBJ once said, "If you can make the trashiest poor white man feel that he is still better than the best black man, he won't notice while you are picking his pockets". Truer words were never spoken......LBJ said that back in the 60s and it's just as true today....

What is the proper wait time etiquette when hooking up with someone who your friend likes?

LiterateHiker comments on Apr 15, 2019:

Why not ask the woman if she wants to meet you for coffee or a meal? She can say yes or no.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@McWalsoft I never had kids, by choice, so we have that in common, as well as the interests in sports, politics, news, etc., but we obviously hang with very different crowds, probably related to our age difference. But I still think we are a world apart on attitudes towards women. I do give you props for never cheating on anyone, that's better than most men out there, but that may be related more to how you don't really do relationships on a regular basis either. As far as the drunk girls and those on the rebound tho, have to disagree with you on whether they really are that independent, strong, wanting to have fun and enjoy life responsibly or whether that is just a self-serving rationalization on your part to justify you getting what you want. I hope that you are able to get what you are after without causing hurt to anyone, including yourself, but I won't be surprised if that happens. Hope you don't end up, like you say, on the news or in jail someday for a sexual assault charge. My other advice is, like the Trojan commercial, Always Wear Your Life Jacket......Also, while you're at it, since you aren't interested in having kids, a vasectomy might not be a bad idea either.......

What is the proper wait time etiquette when hooking up with someone who your friend likes?

LiterateHiker comments on Apr 15, 2019:

Why not ask the woman if she wants to meet you for coffee or a meal? She can say yes or no.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@McWalsoft I think we live in very different, but parallel worlds, man......I respect that you are honest and open about what you want and who you are. That's all I can really ask of others in dialoguing. After reading the rest of the thread, I have to say that, for me, you and I could still never be friends because, even tho it looks like you are putting your friendship with Joey first over the fling, I am just too different in my values about women to be ok with your dealings with women and being such a player. I would not be comfortable with a friend that rolled that way and you would not with someone as old school and moralistic as me. Many years ago I heard a guy your age talk about what you are looking for with this woman. He used the term "sport fuck". This was back in the late 80s. Another guy in the discussion called him out on it and said, "Hey man, if I ever heard you say that about having had a sport fuck with my sister, I'd punch you in the fucking mouth!". I get your point about having heard that she wanted that, but I hope you get my point about respecting women in general and maybe giving her a break since she is on the rebound and may not be making good decisions right now. Would you take advantage of a drunk woman at a bar that was too drunk to consent? My guess would be "yes". See the similarity?

Are you happy?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 15, 2019:

No, I'm not. I'm actually worse than when I was watching my late wife suffer and die because back then I at least had some hope that I would meet someone else later and had more support in my life than now from friends. Now that I've been widowed two years and been alone for that long, my friends ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 16, 2019:

@BeeHappy Thank you Bonnie. You can always message me if you like. I guess that's why, personally, I refrain from offering advice to others on Agnostic about mental health issues that I am not experienced in or that are very complicated. I am afraid of speaking in ignorance to others, even with the best intentions, because I know how that feels on the receiving end.

Are you happy?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 15, 2019:

No, I'm not. I'm actually worse than when I was watching my late wife suffer and die because back then I at least had some hope that I would meet someone else later and had more support in my life than now from friends. Now that I've been widowed two years and been alone for that long, my friends ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@BeeHappy With all due respect, I am not still grieving the loss. My wife lost her personality and most of her cognitive functioning about three years before she died. I began my grieving back then as well as also beginning to emotionally withdraw from her for my own protection. I was doing much better two years ago and had already finished most of my grieving when she died. My depression is about all the rejection in the dating scene and my loss of hope about ever having a partner again. Unless you have lost a spouse to dementia, which is a very different process than other terminal diseases, you don't understand my experience. I have been ready to date for some time. The problem is few will give me a chance and I don't have enough support and socialization in my life. So the rejection in the dating scene is overwhelming. It has nothing to do with unfinished grieving. BTW, my therapist agrees with this and has been working with me since 2015. She also lost an older sister to dementia and has been in practice 30 years, so I think she knows a bit more. So yes, Bonnie, I may be too depressed by now to not turn off women in person, but I was not that way before I started getting rejected so much over the last 18 months and it is not related to grief. It is related to rejection, isolation, and lack of hope. Or maybe not. Two weeks ago I met a woman at a stage play and chatted with her afterwards about the play. I looked her up on FB and sent her a message thanking her for the chat and that I was glad to meet her. She sent me a friend request and we chatted some more, discovering that she was a little too young for me and that she wasn't open to dating anybody at this time, but wanted to be friends. So maybe you are just assuming too much about me.

Are you happy?

Ron_R comments on Apr 15, 2019:

A take on John Lennon's quote perhaps? “When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down 'happy'. They told me I didn't understand the assignment, and I told them they ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

Lennon was one of my cultural heroes and role models. Working Class Hero is my anthem....

Are you happy?

josh_is_exciting comments on Apr 15, 2019:

Ebb and flow. Many people ask "how're you doing?", it's interesting to see how different people respond when you genuinely open up and reveal difficulties you're dealing with. I'm doing pretty well right now, could be better, could be worse. How are you? :) I knew a guy once, he really ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

He's pretty fucking rare. With almost everyone, it's a mere formality of politeness, like How's the weather. Few people are really genuine and caring to most of those they are familiar with.

If you have a wonderful partner......🤗😘

mrveggieman187 comments on Apr 15, 2019:

People like that are non existent. That's why men take the red pill and become MGTOW.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

They are not non-existent. I was married to one. My problem now is finding another one that's available and wants me. Widowed and two years alone, 18 months on Match, no luck. I may die alone or end up depressed enough to kill myself someday, but I won't take your red pill route. I feel no need to reject women as a whole, even tho the vast majority seem to reject me.

I came across something on a dating site that touched me.

Tinocca comments on Apr 15, 2019:

If only everyone felt like that and acted accordingly. That would be nice.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Tinocca I try it, but it gets me nowhere... I'm getting pretty pessimistic about how many other people out there ever try this. Seems like everybody is very closed, critical, and totally selfish about the online dating process..... Why would most people try this if being the other way, punishing and rejecting, works for them? Out of the kindness of their hearts? I think that is a little naive. It seems like nowadays, if you have the looks, like a 7 or above, you can get what and who you want in the online dating game without being kind, so that's why I get what I get from women. And yes, we all know it goes both ways. I get so fucking sick of having to add that so nobody rides in to be a troll and bash me for saying the rest of it.

I came across something on a dating site that touched me.

Tinocca comments on Apr 15, 2019:

If only everyone felt like that and acted accordingly. That would be nice.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

But very few do. As I said above, most people use learning about your past only to vet you and decide whether to reject you or stay interested in being involved with you. All about self-protection and buying the perfect new shiny toy they are shopping for. Sorry if that sounds cynical, but that's how it seems these days.

Good Lord. This group represents Nothing as its name suggests. Yikes.

Marcie1974 comments on Apr 15, 2019:

This group specifically? How so? Some comments refer to agnostic.com as a whole, while it touts itself as a dating site, I consider it more of a Facebook type place for agnostic/atheist folks. It just doesn’t have the numbers for dating yet

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Marcie1974 Bigger cities help, but not always. The Des Moines metro area is about 650K, but not nearly as progressive and hip as the Twin Cities. There just are not that many non-believer hipster women available my age in my area. I have no doubt if I lived in Minneapolis or Chicago I could find compatible women to date much more easily than where I live, but I'm not moving or dating LD. Guess I'm just doomed to being alone. Don't have the guts to risk the disappointment of trying LD dating and having it fail, also don;t have the energy for it. Can't risk moving because I need my friends too much since my family is no support to me.

Useless Advice on Dating Lately, some have posted about their fatigue and frustrations of being ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 15, 2019:

Problem is my friends don't have any parties and neither do the groups I attend, so I won't meet anyone compatible that way.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Deiter I'm fully aware of how bleak, but I can't seem to get myself to suspend disbelief.....As my wife was dying and I started to think sometimes about dating again, I never thought it would go this long without actually meeting someone and starting to go out on some real dates instead of just a series of coffee meetings that went really nowhere......It's like two years of job-seeking leading to six interviews and no job, just a couple connections that led to strictly friendzone relationships that lasted for a few months, the equivalent of short-term non-paying internships in the job world.

Good Lord. This group represents Nothing as its name suggests. Yikes.

Marcie1974 comments on Apr 15, 2019:

This group specifically? How so? Some comments refer to agnostic.com as a whole, while it touts itself as a dating site, I consider it more of a Facebook type place for agnostic/atheist folks. It just doesn’t have the numbers for dating yet

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Marcie1974 Good for you. I don't have that luxury offline.

Good Lord. This group represents Nothing as its name suggests. Yikes.

Marcie1974 comments on Apr 15, 2019:

This group specifically? How so? Some comments refer to agnostic.com as a whole, while it touts itself as a dating site, I consider it more of a Facebook type place for agnostic/atheist folks. It just doesn’t have the numbers for dating yet

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Marcie1974 Agree. I've made plenty of friends here and have several offline, but I'd really like to date again and not be sitting on the sidelines almost all the time like I am with Match......

For this is all a dream we dreamed one afternoon long ago... [youtu.be]

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 12, 2019:

This has always been my favorite Dead song. The link doesn't work. The video won't play.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

@Lutherzme Nope, still says video unavailable.

Good Lord. This group represents Nothing as its name suggests. Yikes.

Marcie1974 comments on Apr 15, 2019:

This group specifically? How so? Some comments refer to agnostic.com as a whole, while it touts itself as a dating site, I consider it more of a Facebook type place for agnostic/atheist folks. It just doesn’t have the numbers for dating yet

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

"Doesn't have the numbers yet", and, at least in my area, I'm afraid it never will......

Daniel Ellsberg On Assange Arrest: The Beginning of the End For Press Freedom

WilliamCharles comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I think too many responding don't get it. It doesn't matter if he's a jerk. It doesn't matter if outing Hillary and the DNC gives you a sad. The help in hacking charges are just that and have yet to be established. It's the government that needs to be transparent. Next you'll be clamoring for a ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

Some people haven't read 1984 or wouldn't recognize it happening right in front of them.

"It's the same big club they use to beat you over the head all day long when they tell you what to...

mongo1977 comments on Apr 14, 2019:

It's comically embarrassing that liberals believe academics and Hollywood elites really do care about them.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 15, 2019:

Some do care, some don't. Notable ones who do care include Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon.