Ugh! I'm so mad.

mischl comments on Apr 9, 2019:

The only person I get to make fun of is me. And frankly, I'm hysterical.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 9, 2019:

I'll bet you are.....

Ugh! I'm so mad.

Nukdookum comments on Apr 9, 2019:

Some people don't get it. All humans deserve respect and dignity. Whether you agree with their life choices or not.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 9, 2019:

dep@Nukdookum I can agree with and accept your standards for how to treat criminals like those, like I said, glad there are penitentiaries. Doesn't mean I will still feel respect for them personally. I agree that treating them barbarically with public abuse does degrade our society. Don't agree with you that the death penalty is right or ever justified for a few reasons. One, it doesn't bring anybody back. Two, it doesn't make anyone even with the murderer. Three, it has often been the case that corrupt or authoritarian governments have used the death penalty unfairly to kill their political opponents. Four, innocent people have been executed and later proved innocent. Either all life is sacred or none of it it, is my argument to the Christians who oppose abortion but support the death penalty. In my mind, everything that lives has some value, but I wouldn't go far enough to say that they are sacred.....

Ugh! I'm so mad.

Nukdookum comments on Apr 9, 2019:

Some people don't get it. All humans deserve respect and dignity. Whether you agree with their life choices or not.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 9, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 You have a point, there are some people that, even if they, or others who are familiar with them, believe that Jesus loves this monstrous person, I still think that they are garbage wrapped in skin when they behave this way towards others. I do not support the death penalty, but you're right I will not respect them like other innocent people and will treat them like the pariah and monster they are. Like Richard Pryor once said, " Thank God we have penitentiaries".

This...character is more important that reputation or looks.

ToolGuy comments on Apr 9, 2019:

I do not agree with the minimizing of reputation as “only” what people think of you. It can open and close doors.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 9, 2019:

It sure can. That's why civil law has slander and libel suits, so those who lie and harm others by aiding in the wrongful closing of doors to others based on lies can be punished financially. If someone slanders me, even if I suffer no financial harm and can't sue them, I will confront them simply as a matter of honor and wanting to let them know that I heard about it, will let others know what they did, and will pay them back if possible by exposing what kind of lying person they are, so they might think twice about doing it again.

And so it goes....

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 8, 2019:

I can relate. I am generally very articulate when speaking, but have always and continue to be tongue-tied when I try speaking to a great-looking woman that I am attracted to. If the woman is unavailable tho, it's no problem speaking to her because I know there is no potential and nothing on the ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 9, 2019:

@LetzGetReal We shall see.. I am having a phone appt. on Thur. with the dating and relationship coach that leads the Meetup group for dating that I just joined. I will be talking with her about coming in to see her and discuss my Match profile, my struggles with online dating, and see what she advises. If it ends up helping or I feel brave, I will share about it on the forum.

And so it goes....

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 8, 2019:

I can relate. I am generally very articulate when speaking, but have always and continue to be tongue-tied when I try speaking to a great-looking woman that I am attracted to. If the woman is unavailable tho, it's no problem speaking to her because I know there is no potential and nothing on the ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 9, 2019:

@LetzGetReal Thanks. I doubt I ever will change. It's reflexive and involuntary, always has been. I think most gorgeous women find it cute and amusing, but it's never won anyone over or led to them wanting to date me. Water seeks and ends up at its own level, at least in my experience.

This doesn't concern you ...

nogod comments on Apr 8, 2019:

lsn't this illegal in most states??

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 8, 2019:

I'm ok with anything between consenting, competent adults, but not with human on animal......I have too much regard and caring for animals, esp. cats....

How do you deal with manspreading?

Lutherzme comments on Apr 8, 2019:

Tasers work well.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 8, 2019:

If only the right passengers were allowed to have them or the flight staff were willing and able to use them on the right people. Unfortunately, the airlines don't want to get sued and if a passenger brought one on and used it, they would be thrown off the plane and go to jail....

I honestly always forget this place can technically be used as a dating app.

bobwjr comments on Apr 8, 2019:

Yeah but you would have no problem for it.great ?group

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 8, 2019:

Bob's right. With your looks you would get tons of attention on any dating site. The question is, depending on which area you lived in, would be if you got the race and quality of man that you wanted, including the same as you on religion.

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

BitFlipper comments on Apr 7, 2019:

I list myself as "agnostic" on dating sites. I've received several stern rebukes from women who claimed to be "christian", but who didn't list any such requirement in their profiles. I've learned to expect rejections and non-responses, but these jeezus rejections seem especially cruel. They seem ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 8, 2019:

@BitFlipper Totally agree about the label part, that's all it is for many of them. Just a way of fitting in with the mainstream culture....

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

BitFlipper comments on Apr 7, 2019:

I list myself as "agnostic" on dating sites. I've received several stern rebukes from women who claimed to be "christian", but who didn't list any such requirement in their profiles. I've learned to expect rejections and non-responses, but these jeezus rejections seem especially cruel. They seem ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 8, 2019:

I always hate it when someone leaves out important info in their profile, whether due to being lazy, careless or evasive, that might help the other person know if the person might be compatible. I have run into a few women on Batch that have identified themselves as Christian in their profile, but also selected the profile trait " Spiritual, but not Religious", as one of the categories under religious preference that they were interested in for a partner. But after they found out I was an Agnostic, after listing my category for my own affiliation as Spritual, but not Religious, the women said I was not compatible. I told them I thought they were being dishonest in how they did their profile and they got mad and said they were honest and I had not been, so I was the one in the wrong. In each case, the woman had nothing in their profile essay about their faith being very strong or very important to them, so I felt they were each just kind of making up their reasons as they went along in the conflict, so it really doesn't matter. They didn't want me and they were not going to be honest and truthful about their reasons for rejecting me. I told them each that they might want to spell out in their profile essay how important their religion and faith were to them, but none of them ever did that after I checked their profiles a week later.

I shared this in a comment, but @sassygirl3869 thought it merited center stage.

Deiter comments on Apr 7, 2019:

Everyone can’t be on the outside. Someone has to be the inside for all the outsiders to stand apart from. Of course, there’s a word for those who start off by asking about *things that make you cry*: Unsocialized. When I was young I loathed small talkers. But small talk is just a bridge ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

@Deiter Totally agree with that. I hate small talk, but I have learned to put up with it or just walk away once I have exhausted it and move on. I see it as the price to pay until I run across another equally deep and compatible person that can have a real conversation.

I've read posts by several ladies on this site who have made various comments about their "FWB.

nogod comments on Apr 7, 2019:

Reading all your posts, there seems to be a very fine line between the two.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

@nogod I'm game and will look into it the next time I visit my father in your town. We might be able to work one in. I'll PM you about it.

I've read posts by several ladies on this site who have made various comments about their "FWB.

icolan comments on Apr 7, 2019:

That is not a friend with benefits, that is prostitution. Friends with benefits are two people who get together for sex but have no interest in pursuing a romantic relationship. Nothing to do with money or dating, just mutually satisfying sex.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

Well said, best definition here.

I've read posts by several ladies on this site who have made various comments about their "FWB.

nogod comments on Apr 7, 2019:

Reading all your posts, there seems to be a very fine line between the two.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

@nogod I think the sugar daddy or sugar mama situations, depending on the gender of the person paying, are sort of a relationship variation of prostitution, but even tho I would never go for it as a participant, it's legal and not my business. I think in most cases both parties are pretty clear on what the arrangement disguised as a relationship really is.

I've read posts by several ladies on this site who have made various comments about their "FWB.

EyesThatSmile comments on Apr 7, 2019:

I would never want to be paid for FWB. Being treated as a prostitute would bother me immensely. However, I once found out a man I was FWB with had previously paid prostitutes...which all of a sudden made me feel like a piece of very cheap meat. As a good friend, he was reassuring...but ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

I'm with you. I need the emotional security. Others mileage may very and that's fine with me.

I've read posts by several ladies on this site who have made various comments about their "FWB.

bleurowz comments on Apr 7, 2019:

That's not FWB, that's a business transaction.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

Agreed. It would count as prostitution in my book, but then again I am for legalizing it anyway as long as it's regulated.......

The Dating Life:

aahouck49 comments on Apr 7, 2019:

What is going on with this date site? I only joined this site, agnostic 3 weeks ago today, and have been on other date sites, the reason I came to this site, and grateful to have found it, I was not looking for a date site, but to find people like me, in the hopes that I was not alone out here, and ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

@Deiter That or maybe a stronger measure...

Would you say this is accurate?

ElusiveMoby comments on Apr 7, 2019:

Absolutely not. In fact, the man I choose will have enormous intellectual prowess. Intelligence is sexier than physical features. I certainly hope I'm chosen for my intelligence as well.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

You are both. Many women on the paid sites put lots of pics in their profile and are clearly showing off their assets because that is all they have or feel they have to attract men. No wonder that the men they do attract are only after them for sex.

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

Sticks48 comments on Apr 6, 2019:

I agree with you about everything. I dislike this on line "dating" with a passion. Real life is much easier.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

@Sticks48 I hear you. I've been on Batch for 18 months. Try that on for size. I chatted with a woman about a year ago on Batch that had already been on there three years. She is still on there and active as I have run across her profile and verified that she is still active. I even told her back when she chatted with me for a while that I think she is too picky. She disagreed of course, even tho she has gotten way more interest than me there and met way more men than I have women. She rejected me as a match before we even began trading a few messages just discussing the site and the dating process. My guess is my looks weren't good enough since she didn't bring up any dealbreakers.

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

Sticks48 comments on Apr 6, 2019:

I agree with you about everything. I dislike this on line "dating" with a passion. Real life is much easier.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

@Sticks48 Hell no... and that's the problem. On the paid sites, all you get is profiles with pics. It gets too much like shopping thru a catalog where you have many similar items to choose from and all you can do is look thru the catalog and try to pick which items are a match for you based on the limited info and the pics that are in the profile. Women get so overwhelmed with all the choices and messages they get from different men that I think they just throw up their hands and decide to only reply to the men who have the most attractive photos because that is the easiest way for them to wade thru the catalog and not have to reply to dozens of messages a week and view a hundred profiles a week. I really wish the paid sites had forums, but they don't want to spend the time, money, and trouble on dealing with forums. So, if your main photo, which goes out with each message you send along with your username, age, and city is not at least above average-looking, you will usually get your message read, about two-thirds of the time, but you will only get your profile read in response to your message about half the time. You will get a reply about 10% of the time, after some of the women have read your profile. Of course, nobody messages you back until they have read your profile. As Gwendolyn said a while back on these boards, looks really matter a lot and few women who are above average or even average-looking will bother messaging a guy who is average-looking. They keep chasing someone better than average with their interest and their messaging. And yes, Sticks, I'll save you the trouble of saying it, it goes both ways in general.......

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

Sticks48 comments on Apr 6, 2019:

I agree with you about everything. I dislike this on line "dating" with a passion. Real life is much easier.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

@Sticks48 I could be wrong, but I just think the staff at Our Time doesn't really care about the scammers, but on Batch they seem to really keep on top of them. That may be why Match is a little more expensive than Our Time even if the same conglomerate owns them both. Plus, Batch has a much larger member pool, at least in my area, maybe three times as many.

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

Sticks48 comments on Apr 6, 2019:

I agree with you about everything. I dislike this on line "dating" with a passion. Real life is much easier.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

@Sticks48 I would think the male scammers would also be easy to spot, but I wouldn't know. The ladies who are on paid sites would have to answer that. I know that Our Time had a fair number of female scammers and the site did not seem to do much to get rid of them, not like Batch does. And both sites are owned by the same company. The female scammers on Our Time would be on there for a while each.

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

Sticks48 comments on Apr 6, 2019:

I agree with you about everything. I dislike this on line "dating" with a passion. Real life is much easier.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

@Sticks48 The women I was talking about that were so reluctant to meet were from Batch, not Agnostic, but I suppose they have run into scammers on there too. As a man, I have run into very few scammers on Batch, and when I run across them, they disappear quickly and we don't end up even trading messages because when I don't reply they move on. Women on Match have no reason to fear me as a scammer because scammers have much more attractive pics than me.

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

BoingoOingo42 comments on Apr 6, 2019:

Since my divorce a number of years ago I have only had a few dates. In those cases I was able to ask the women out. Now, though, I haven't had a date in a couple of years and the women I have an interest in don't seem to have any reciprocal interest so I haven't asked. That might be a mistake but...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

@BoingoOingo42 I agree about Match, but I will never meet anyone from Agnostic unless they move to my area or a bunch of new women my age join from my area. Hasn't happened in the last two years and I hear that, if anything, Agnostic's membership growth has really slowed down in the last months. I really don't have any interest in messaging women from Agnostic that live far away when so few of them are likely to be both interested in me and in moving to Iowa. I get enough rejection as it is with Match. If someone far away approached me on this site and said they were really interested in me and in maybe relocating for someone, I might be open to it. I guess I would have to be approached first and have it be someone that really interested me. Not likely. I have told several women on Agnostic that I would want to meet and try dating them if they lived in my area, and nobody has offered to try LD dating with me or said they would consider relocating for me. I guess right now I just really don't have the courage and confidence to try LD dating with someone from Agnostic, at least not if they live further than MN, ILL, or WI. And only then if they were interested in relocating to Iowa anyway. I wouldn't be able to deal with the disappointment of making the long trips and having it not work out. I'm probably better off putting my efforts into meeting women that already live in my area.

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

NoMagicCookie comments on Apr 6, 2019:

Thoughts? Most everybody on this site is located hundreds of miles away so, although I find quality women worthy of my time, I do not PM them as they are just too far away. I've chatted with a few quality women who messaged me but all live over a thousand miles from my location so all ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

@BeeHappy Thanks, and you're welcome. What's so cool and cute about this couple is that neither of them is quite even average-looking, yet they both are perfect for each other and seem so drawn to each other. Just the thing for my cynical, romantic, weary heart.....

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

Sticks48 comments on Apr 6, 2019:

I agree with you about everything. I dislike this on line "dating" with a passion. Real life is much easier.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

@Sticks48 I've never really engaged with anyone on Agnostic that lived in my area long or far enough to run into that, but I hear you. With paid sites, I have run into that a few times where the women insisted on messaging for quite a while before meeting. In all those cases, we never ended up meeting, so I hear you and agree about wanting to get to the meeting as soon as the dealbreakers have already been discussed and cleared with messaging. It shouldn't take more than a few messages each or maybe that as well as one phone call at most, unless you are dealing with someone that has big trust issues. And those are probably not worth meeting anyway.

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

Sticks48 comments on Apr 6, 2019:

I agree with you about everything. I dislike this on line "dating" with a passion. Real life is much easier.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

Now that I'm way older and widowed, I just don't have the confidence and skills to approach women IRL. especially strangers. I guess I would rather have the rejection online than in person. But the longer I try online, the wearier I am getting of making the effort of messaging women when my rejection rate of no reply is 90%. I have little hope these days..

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

Silver1wun comments on Apr 6, 2019:

Thoughts and experiences? Thoughts are that there are too many men, compared to the number of women, initiating contact and of the kinds that give the rest of us (men) a hurdle to overcome that is much more anxious than merely being the first to reach out. Male and female priorities are completely ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 7, 2019:

You speak a lot of truth and wisdom and very articulately.

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

Cabsmom comments on Apr 6, 2019:

I've initiated contact here and on other sites a few times. My fear is the first face to face meeting. However, if we've talked on the phonea few times, that fear is greatly reduced.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

@BeeHappy I am with you on this and so is Sticks, he said the same thing a while back. After trading a few messages with someone to discuss any dealbreaker issues that were not covered in the profile, I want to move on ASAP to either a phone call or the in person coffee meeting. Online messaging is just not that clear a form of communication and also I don't want to spend that much time before meeting conversing online and chatting that way. I want to get on to the in person and see if there is chemistry as well as if talking in person is really easy and pleasant. Those two things are the real test. But in 18 months on Batch and only meeting 6 women in person, some of it is probably me just feeling burned out on all this effort and also the time I have spent chatting with women online where it didn't lead to a meeting. So I'm feeling starved a bit for the in person contact. My guess is that a good part of it is my looks are not so impressive that women are that eager to meet me. We all know that good looks make most people more eager to meet since they already know they feel physically attracted.

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

NoMagicCookie comments on Apr 6, 2019:

Thoughts? Most everybody on this site is located hundreds of miles away so, although I find quality women worthy of my time, I do not PM them as they are just too far away. I've chatted with a few quality women who messaged me but all live over a thousand miles from my location so all ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

@BeeHappy Do you mean the couple I talked about? I'm a little unsure.

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

NoMagicCookie comments on Apr 6, 2019:

Thoughts? Most everybody on this site is located hundreds of miles away so, although I find quality women worthy of my time, I do not PM them as they are just too far away. I've chatted with a few quality women who messaged me but all live over a thousand miles from my location so all ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

@BeeHappy, @NoMagicCookie I would never get involved with someone from out of the country, too obviously a scam in most cases. But I did get to know a couple who did get married and make it work that way. The woman was a co-worker and friend of my late wife and the guy was from the UK. They met online, probably from FB, and began dating with a couple of cross Atlantic visits along with tons of online contact and Skype. They ended up getting married and being a great match, with him moving here and living with her. So there's that. Neither of them have much money, but they seem very happy.

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

NoMagicCookie comments on Apr 6, 2019:

Thoughts? Most everybody on this site is located hundreds of miles away so, although I find quality women worthy of my time, I do not PM them as they are just too far away. I've chatted with a few quality women who messaged me but all live over a thousand miles from my location so all ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

@BeeHappy I guess my Catholic upbringing is still with me too much. I would not message someone who lived far away for two reasons. One, I would not want to put in all the LD travel and have it not work out. Second, since I won't relocate, I would feel very guilty if the relationship proceeded and the woman moved here and it ended or didn't work out.. I would feel responsible and guilty about it even if it was her free choice to move here.

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

BoingoOingo42 comments on Apr 6, 2019:

Since my divorce a number of years ago I have only had a few dates. In those cases I was able to ask the women out. Now, though, I haven't had a date in a couple of years and the women I have an interest in don't seem to have any reciprocal interest so I haven't asked. That might be a mistake but...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

@BeeHappy The majority of the women on this site, probably yes, the majority on Batch, forget it. As far as approaching women IRL, it's about 50/50. Half will be kind about rejecting you, half won't.

Do you have trouble taking that first step?

vnufall comments on Apr 6, 2019:

Men don't contact me on here or very rarely so I have no idea...lol.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

@vnufall I'm not up for LD either and there's nobody in my area either that I approach as nobody new has joined in the last two years and I already tried messaging the handful of women that seemed interesting and compatible when I joined two years ago. Struck out with all of them and only three of them even replied to my PM. I'm talking about Agnostic here. But if you lived near me Faith, I would message you.

He's got her 6!

Carin comments on Apr 6, 2019:

I keep wondering how 6 came to mean "back." Seems strange.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

@BeeHappy I am always learning stuff from you guys on this site. Much better use of time than FB.

Looking for someone interesting to talk to who is a women.

CaroleKay comments on Apr 6, 2019:

You're not selling it well.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

@CaroleKay Back at ya, CK!

I’m in N Carolina USA and am seeing ads for dating sites for farmers.

nogod comments on Apr 6, 2019:

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE LONELY, AT FARMERS ONLY.COM, sound familiar??

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

@nogod Trust me man, more times than I want to remember. I've known a couple farmers, including one who looked better than the guy in the commercial, and they don't land women who look like her, you can take that to the bank....

Thought some of you might enjoy this exchange I had today with a new user

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 6, 2019:

Now Gwen, or should I call you Jenny, lol? Please don't be mean. I spied your pics and you are a gorgeous woman, so at least he had that part right, even if a bit inappropriate. What can I say, some guys are too clueless to know not to lead with that. Maybe he might have turned out to be ok, just a ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

@GwenBFree I haven't seen his profile, but I trust your judgement, my dear.....

Looking for someone interesting to talk to who is a women.

CaroleKay comments on Apr 6, 2019:

You're not selling it well.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

Aw, com'on. You guys are so tough and mean. Yes, he's lame on the execution, but I respect his effort....I would never have the nerve to run an ad for myself as soon as I joined Agnostic. And, unlike him, I can actually say with honesty that I am really interesting....

I’m in N Carolina USA and am seeing ads for dating sites for farmers.

nogod comments on Apr 6, 2019:

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE LONELY, AT FARMERS ONLY.COM, sound familiar??

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

I've seen their commercial on TV with the woman who has a figure like Jeri Ryan and almost as beautiful sitting next to her farmer hubby who is maybe above average looking, but still clearly not in her league and think, man has this got to be a scam. Anybody else seen that commercial and agree?

Thought some of you might enjoy this exchange I had today with a new user

Matty315 comments on Apr 6, 2019:

Jenny Jenny !!!!

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

" Who can I turn to?"...

If you knew of a way to use your estate following your death to greatly benefit humanity would you ...

MarkiusMahamius comments on Apr 6, 2019:

I'm all in favor of slashing the ability to inherit wealth. Many of the taxes that are currently forced on the workers, could be paid by estates instead. Dead people don't need money, and no one is just entitled to get that money after they're gone. Enjoy what you have while you have it, and STFU...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

@MarkiusMahamius I hear you. I now have enough money to be comfortable for once in my life, especially since I live pretty frugally, tho I do plan to start taking a few nice trips each year, not super expensive, but more than I could afford in the past. Esp. if I meet someone to travel with. Let's just say I will never be a millionaire.

If you knew of a way to use your estate following your death to greatly benefit humanity would you ...

MarkiusMahamius comments on Apr 6, 2019:

I'm all in favor of slashing the ability to inherit wealth. Many of the taxes that are currently forced on the workers, could be paid by estates instead. Dead people don't need money, and no one is just entitled to get that money after they're gone. Enjoy what you have while you have it, and STFU...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

In my case, at least, I consider it a way of helping and rewarding those who have helped and been there to help and support me in my life, not as some way of controlling from the grave. The money, in my case, goes to people for what they have already done and would do anyway even if I had nothing to leave them, not for what they do after I'm dead. I respect your opinion even tho we disagree somewhat. BTW, any estate I leave will be way under the current threshold for the estate tax, which is something that I do favor, BTW.

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

Ron_R comments on Apr 5, 2019:

I don't like saying deal breaker because honestly, you just never know. Even the words - my type. The first lady after my wife passed was kind, considerate and honest. A great mom, funny and attractive...also a conservative...who smoked a bit. Those last two not what I would go for, but the ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

Smoked a bit, I could handle, conservative, forget it...

Sometimes challenging, but always worth the effort, IMO.

MrLizard comments on Apr 6, 2019:

I guess she sorta didn't take her own advice.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

Good point. If nothing else, I always felt she compromised herself or sold out when she recorded that shitty country song by Kris Kristofferson, Me And Bobby McGee because it would be an easy hit single and it ended up being her biggest hit and the song most people know her for. I bet if she had lived longer she would have regretted that, as the song is different from what the rest of her music was like and about.

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 5, 2019:

I'll briefly violate my own instruction and list my few dealbreakers, all of which are very important as being part of my core values and identity or how I want to spend my time. No strong religious believers or intolerant of my Agnosticism No smokers (tobacco) No country music fans No women ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

@ChevalMugs Here in Iowa most people wouldn't really know what Agnostic means, so fortunately Batch has a category under different options for religious preference called " Spiritual, but not religious" and I use that one. About a third of the women on Batch that I run across indicate that they are open to dating someone who is that category in their profile's checklist of traits. Also I totally agree about the intolerance dynamic being so common. In my local area with online dating, since I am so offbeat and not part of the mainstream culture here, it always seems to end up that my issues that you might call preferences result in a dealbreaker situation anyway because the woman is part of the mainstream culture, at least on that issue, and she will not accept my preference as ok even if I am willing to be flexible because it is all or nothing to these members of the dominant majority culture. They don't have to compromise on these issues due to the abundance of choices that online dating offers them of other guys that fit the mainstream trait on that particular issue, so they reject me. The bottom line is that when you are trying to date in a local area where you are out of the mainstream culture and lifestyle, any preference you have will be a dealbreaker with the other person if the preference relates to cultural or lifestyle traits that are part of the mainstream majority. It's not fair, but it's reality. At the same time, it's not worth settling either... Being part of the mainstream culture, just like race, gives you a certain amount of power and privilege in the dating game because you have more choices than those who aren't and can still be true to yourself and date only within your preferences. It's like being black and trying to date only within your race, which in Iowa would mean you would have only about 3% of the population to choose from, depending on the area you live in.

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

sbboudreau61 comments on Apr 5, 2019:

Narrow minded people need not apply.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

@sbboudreau61 I'm sorry it worked out that way. I can relate some.

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 5, 2019:

I'll briefly violate my own instruction and list my few dealbreakers, all of which are very important as being part of my core values and identity or how I want to spend my time. No strong religious believers or intolerant of my Agnosticism No smokers (tobacco) No country music fans No women ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 6, 2019:

@ChevalMugs I must still disagree with you and will address each one in order. Yes, if I met someone I really liked that was a country fan that would be ok, but every time I have run into this on Batch the woman has made it clear that she would never agree to the sort of arrangement that you are suggesting. So even if I agreed to it, it would be a dealbreaker on the woman's end with every country music loving woman in my area. See what I mean? Sometimes being tolerant and flexible is usesless if the other person has a dealbreaker on that issue. As far as politics, my views are just too strong and extreme for me to be with someone that is polar opposite. Hell, I even find it hard at times to put up with moderate, establishment Democrats when it comes to discussing economic issues. In fact I am a democratic socialist like Bernie Sanders and have been my whole adult life. It is too big a part of my heart and my identity and values. Religion, yes I could date someone who is Christian, Catholic or, better yet Jewish, if their beliefs were not that strong or extreme or religion was not that important to them. On this issue, there do seem to be many women my age in my area that are open to dating someone who is not religious, maybe about 25-30% of them. For the rest of the women in that demographic, religion is a dealbreaker, so with them it doesn't matter how tolerant or flexible I am. As far as kids, I am actually more flexible and accepting than you. I don't care if they have kids as long as they are adult and not at home. Along with that, I don't want to be seeing their family or grandkids every couple weeks or less. That's one of the reasons I never had kids or wanted them. I have no contact with my siblings and what matters to me as who's important in my life are my friends and my partner. I want someone who has a healthy balance in their life of friends, family, and their partner, not someone who is emmeshed and overly tied to their family and wants to spend most of their free time visiting their family. It would make me bored and resentful to be with someone like that. When it comes to other non-believers, I don't think I am very unique in my dealbreakers. The problem is that in my geo area, people like us are a minority of about 2-3% at most. Maybe that's why people like us rarely move from more hip, progressive areas like either coast to go live in Des Moines Iowa. I've lived here long enough to know that the only three reasons hip non-believers like us move to Iowa from more progressive hip places are to be near family, raise kids, or have a lower cost of living and thus a higher standard of living than what they had back where they moved from.

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

sbboudreau61 comments on Apr 5, 2019:

Narrow minded people need not apply.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 5, 2019:

@sbboudreau61 I know that I would fit in or be more a part of the majority culture if I lived in either the PNW, the Northeast, or Cali., but I won't move there for good reasons, mainly my friends. Even if I lived in Chicago or Minneapolis, I would fit in way better than I do here with the majority culture and would probably have little problem finding someone compatible to date. Such is life......Which is also fitting because Batch has in-person events in each of those cities, but they offer nothing of that sort in Des Moines, my area. They even offer them in Omaha, which is not much bigger than Des Moines...

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

freeofgod comments on Apr 5, 2019:

I would not/could not get along with a Trump supporter. They run against every fiber of my moral being.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 5, 2019:

Same with me for any conservative or Libertarian. I can be polite and civil in a social setting if we keep away from politics, but as far as being friends, much less dating, forget it.....Glad I'm retired so I don't have to deal with them as co-workers anymore..Hell, I even get frustrated with my centrist, establishment Democrat friends whenever the discussion gets to economic issues and inequality because they are actually fine with the status quo on that and I am a socialist who wants America to be more like Scandanavia.

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

HippieChick58 comments on Apr 5, 2019:

I think deal breakers are judgements, and in no way does that make them bad. We use judgement ALL THE TIME. Prehistoric persons had to decide if they could kill that brontosaurus or if they needed to run and hide. When we drive we're judging other drivers, how fast are they going, can I get through ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 5, 2019:

@HippieChick58 Yeah, like I said somewhere before, most of Iowa and Nebraska, especially outside of the big cities, are hicks, rednecks, conservatives and Bible-thumpers, often a mix of one or more. Nebraska was the one or one of a few, states whose congressional delegation still supported Nixon when he was being driven from office.. Says a lot about the state.

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

Christiep77 comments on Apr 5, 2019:

I am trying to understand the meet up group. Am I assuming correcting that it is about exploring dating and finding the path towards who you are compatable with or something like that? Is listing deal breakers a way of exploring deeper what you are and are and are not looking for as well as ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 5, 2019:

@Christiep77 Seems like sound advice. I can change my habits, but I can't change my identity or my values for someone. But I tell ya, Christie, I'll let you in on a little secret that I have discovered in my travels. There are men, not me, that will go looking for women to date at Christian churches even when they are non-believers and just fake it to get someone to date. Same thing with guys who are not alcoholics who will attend AA meetings to date women. I know because I have met some of them, but they are nobody that I would be friends with. I care too much about honesty and integrity, so I demand it of myself and my friends if they want to remain my friends....

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

Cast1es comments on Apr 5, 2019:

I included what my deal breakers are in my bio . and heard from almost no one for over a year , and after over 800 had visited or hovered over it . Then I got several , who appeared to have similar bios , who turned out , in the end , to be deleted by the scammers froup .

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 5, 2019:

I don't list my dealbreakers on Batch, altho I have been tempted to do so with some humor attached, but I have been told that doesn't work very well on a dating site. Here on Agnostic tho, that's a different story as everybody is offbeat.

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

sbboudreau61 comments on Apr 5, 2019:

Narrow minded people need not apply.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 5, 2019:

@sbboudreau61 Nope, central Iowa in a metro area of about 650K, believe it or not. But, yes, the culture is pretty conservative and traditional like the South because even tho I am in an urban area, it is a farming state and not only does that greatly influence the culture here there are also a lot of women living in my area that did grow up in rural areas if not on a farm. So I often joke about how different I am from most of the farmer's daughters that seem to make up the vast majority of the women I run into on Batch. I relate really well to transplants from either coast and almost all my friends here are transplants, but the transplant women on Batch won't give me the time of day. Probably because the cost of living is so much higher on either coast and they are wanting and used to being with guys that have more money than me.

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

sbboudreau61 comments on Apr 5, 2019:

Narrow minded people need not apply.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 5, 2019:

I agree, but then again, it's somewhat a matter of perspective. In my local area, the majority culture, which I reject for the most part, places a lot of importance on college sports, country music, Christianity, being family and child-oriented, and also social drinking (which is not a dealbreaker for me as a non-drinker, but very few women on Batch seem willing to accept a non-drinker no matter what I say in my profile or messages that I am very comfortable with a moderate or social drinker). That last one is not my dealbreaker, it's the one that almost all women I encounter on Batch seem to have. And when you think about it, why should women who are social drinkers accept a man who's different in that? They have so many other guys to choose from that do drink, so they reject and move on, without even asking why I don't drink. Most likely all the non-drinking women are in AA and just find guys to date in the program, so they almost never end up on dating sites. Go figure.... It's kind of like views on race and white privilege. If you are part of the majority culture and lifestyle, then someone who is not part of that culture or lifestyle group will look or seem unreasonable to you when their dealbreaker is about not conforming to the majority culture. But when you are part of the majority culture, then your dealbreaker against dating someone who is not conforming to the majority culture seems very natural, reasonable, and goes without saying........

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

MrLizard comments on Apr 5, 2019:

Dealbreakers limit you. But you have every right to identify them and be happy with whom you have a relationship. She overreacted and could have just agreed you two were not a great match. End story.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 5, 2019:

@MrLizard Well said LIz. It just felt like the woman who shut me down was imposing a double standard on me while at the same time she was pretending to be nice by saying "I'm only saying this with love, etc." and claiming to be concerned that with my dealbreakers I was sentencing myself to dying alone, etc. She actually did write something like that and said that I should care more about that than my dealbreakers.

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

Christiep77 comments on Apr 5, 2019:

I am trying to understand the meet up group. Am I assuming correcting that it is about exploring dating and finding the path towards who you are compatable with or something like that? Is listing deal breakers a way of exploring deeper what you are and are and are not looking for as well as ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 5, 2019:

I think you are reading all of this correctly, including the purpose of the Meetup group. It meets once a month and the purpose is for the members to learn about themselves as well as about the dating process and also provide support to each other during the dating process. In a nutshell, it sounds to me a lot like a 12-step or recovery support group, only it meets less often than those usually do. Thank you for your encouragement Christie. My main reasons for joining the group are to maybe make a friend or two that I can phone or meet with in between group meetings for support, discussion and maybe hang out with. Secondly, hang out with other group members when they occasionally get together socially to hear a band, etc. Thirdly, learn more about dating from others as well as learn more about what I might do differently with dating. Only about 40-50 people regularly attend the monthly meeting/events and many of them are way younger than me. Also, I'm sure many if not most of them are at least identified Christians, so I'm not looking to date anyone from the group. They are a very small pool of people and, unlike me or our community here on Agnostic, they are likely almost all very mainstream in lifestyle and culture. For example, one woman on a discussion in the Meetup group's site made a comment in response to someone else that "some of us don't believe in sex before marriage". This was after an exchange between me and a young guy about how soon sex usually happens after people meet. Hearing that it felt a bit as if she lived in a different world than me......

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

MrLizard comments on Apr 5, 2019:

Dealbreakers limit you. But you have every right to identify them and be happy with whom you have a relationship. She overreacted and could have just agreed you two were not a great match. End story.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 5, 2019:

Exactly. We had already agreed on that. She just could not go on and accept or validate that my dealbreakers could be as valid, fair and healthy as her own dealbreaker on religion. Who knows what other ones she has? I never found out, but she instead began evangelizing about how I needed to meet with the dating group's leader and get myself straightened out on not having so many, if any, dealbreakers, because she said they were "unrealistic, more likely wishes rather than needs, and based too much on my marriage with my late wife" which she said would never happen like that again, etc. Well, at least she had that last part right...

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

RobertNappi2 comments on Apr 5, 2019:

If your just looking for hookups...There are NO deal breakers! If your looking long term, there are compatibility issues where deal makers or breakers should be addressed. Find someone with compatible values!

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 5, 2019:

I should have clarified. For purposes of this thread, I would like for everyone to stick with the issue of dealbreakers for LTRs. That is the focus of the Meetup group that I have joined and am writing about. Their leader is a dating and relationship coach who founded the group a couple years ago and also has her own business coaching and advising people on dating. I don't think she does matchmaking, but I'm sure she recruits clients from the Meetup group.

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

HippieChick58 comments on Apr 5, 2019:

I think deal breakers are judgements, and in no way does that make them bad. We use judgement ALL THE TIME. Prehistoric persons had to decide if they could kill that brontosaurus or if they needed to run and hide. When we drive we're judging other drivers, how fast are they going, can I get through ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 5, 2019:

Trust me she is not my friend, never was, just a member of the group that I encountered on their Meetup site and began chatting with. She ended the chat by telling me that she would not respond to further messages from me. I told her that when the group has its next meeting on April 20 that I will be there and if she is also that I will be polite and civil as well as not end up gossiping about or badmouthing her to other members of the group. I asked her to extend to me the same courtesies, but I've got a strong feeling that she won't and like most Christian hypocrites, of which she may be one, they usually don't play fair, at least not in my experience. BTW, thanks Paula. You live in Omaha, which is much like Des Moines, so you are familiar with this stuff and these types of people. They are very smug, arrogant members of the majority culture. A real pain to live around....

I know we'd have threads before about dealbreakers in dating relationships.

CaroleKay comments on Apr 5, 2019:

I don't get why you are wasting your time with a believer.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 5, 2019:

I wasn't. I ran into her on a discussion thread of the Meetup group, same as you and me here. She suggested early on in the chat that she would be interested in having coffee as friends to discuss the dating process as fellow group members, since we had already talked about our diff on religion and she said she couldn't date Agnostic. I was never trying to date her or even suggest it once I heard she was a strong believer. This Meetup group is secular, not church-connected or Christian, tho most of its members probably are that, is my guess. She changed her tune quickly and hostile once I disagreed with her about dealbreakers, even tho she was very secure about her own dealbreaker on not dating non-believers. She didn't like being accused of hypocrisy.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Freethinkingxx comments on Apr 2, 2019:

That kind of sucks, especially since I know many women, including myself, who are into bald men. Especially if you go all in and shave it clean! TMI?! LOL

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 5, 2019:

@Janiesuper Agnostic is not a general population site and it is full of people like me that are not part of mainstream society or culture, because, simply by being non-believers they fall into only about 2-3% of the general population, an even lower % than gay and lesbian people. This site is perfect for connecting me with similar folks when it comes to non-religion and alternative culture and lifestyle, but it doesn't help me find anyone local to date because in my area the % of people like us on Agnostic is probably even lower that 2-3% of the single population, if even that. Pretty bleak. Just have to plod on and hope to meet the needle in the haystack. You may well succeed, if only because you are 15 years younger than me and still working, so you have more and bigger networks and opportunities than me. I'm still too young to meet women at the senior center or the retirement home yet, lol.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Freethinkingxx comments on Apr 2, 2019:

That kind of sucks, especially since I know many women, including myself, who are into bald men. Especially if you go all in and shave it clean! TMI?! LOL

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 5, 2019:

@Janiesuper I have no doubt that many profiles are fake, but they are easy to spot, so I just blow by them. And I do often run across profiles from women who are obviously on free memberships for a short trial period that end up never even reading, much less replying to my messages. Then the profile either shows its been inactive for quite a while or becomes unavailable. That's the sequence with the free memberships. And, like I said before, the profiles really don't matter that much in who gets interested in chatting with you on the site. As one woman told me, " I look at the photos and see if they do anything for me as far as attraction. I read the essay and see if there is anything particularly offensive like the guy being a Trump supporter or a hunter, etc. and I also look for anything really interesting or clever said in the essay, including something I really like. Lastly, I see how many common interests we have. Beyond that, the profile doesn't matter that much if he checks out ok on those parts, then I'll reply to him". I have to say that my process is probably way more thorough than that, but I bet most men are different. I check for not only those things she mentioned, but also for any clues that the woman is different in any ways that are likely to be a dealbreaker for me or her. I've been at this so long, it's become pretty obvious which issues keep coming up that are problems and I don't want to bother with messaging someone that does not seem likely to be a mutual match.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Freethinkingxx comments on Apr 2, 2019:

That kind of sucks, especially since I know many women, including myself, who are into bald men. Especially if you go all in and shave it clean! TMI?! LOL

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 4, 2019:

@Janiesuper It may be a very old asthetic, but it is still a big issue with many women in my area on Batch. Before the recent removal of the profile traits I mentioned from Batch, many, but not most, of the women's profiles did not include bald among the hair type traits they were looking for in the traits checklist section. Maybe it's regional. You live in NM, maybe Alb. is more hip than Des Moines, I wouldn't doubt that. I don't doubt that most women my age in Des Moines are still stuck in the 80s culturally.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Robecology comments on Apr 3, 2019:

I empathize with you, Tom....I'm not being naive....just trying to be supportive. I've pretty much given up the chase....going through a phase of enjoying being by myself.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 3, 2019:

Too bad the Des Moines UU church is not full of guys like you, because then I would enjoy going there instead of dreading it.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Robecology comments on Apr 1, 2019:

You mention baldness as a feature that's been removed...which could be an interesting plus for bald men! Apparently their admins have found that demanding "having hair" is too superficial...so go with it! If it comes up in a conversation don't hide it....but I'm guessing once you're face to ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 3, 2019:

@Robecology You are naive Rob. I am not kidding about this. The first thing they ask you when they meet you is what your job is. If I answered retired, which I am, they would then ask what type of work did you do before you retired? They really do care about sizing you up immediately according to whether you fit into their financial and professional class or not. When I was a member of that church back in the early 90s, the church directory actually listed the member's employer (at least for most members that were working) and usually also their work number. They have since gotten rid of that, but the attitude remains. I can't count the number of times I have met someone there during the coffee time after services where I was asked about my employment and the other person then literally turned and walked away from me almost immediately because I had failed their test of whether I was in their class or not. BTW, most people there dress very casual and not that nice.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Robecology comments on Apr 1, 2019:

You mention baldness as a feature that's been removed...which could be an interesting plus for bald men! Apparently their admins have found that demanding "having hair" is too superficial...so go with it! If it comes up in a conversation don't hide it....but I'm guessing once you're face to ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 3, 2019:

@Robecology I have no problem with the Unitarian churches themselves as far as beliefs or their set of principles. Almost everybody at the one in Des Moines, my area, is either Humanist, Agnostic, or Atheist as far as beliefs. They don't buy into Hell or Heaven or God as far as I've noticed. My beef with them has for some time been their classism, snobbery, and cliquishness as a mainstream part of their culture as a congregation. In other words, the inhospitable and unaccepting attitude of many of the members, esp. the male members. They don't care if you are gay, trans., black, HIspanic, etc, but if you want to fit in and feel welcome and included, you'd better have a college degree and make over at least 75 K in a job that is a profession rather than just some menial service job. Get the picture? For 15 years my late wife and I lived about a half hour north of where I am now in a college town that had a Unitarian church. Their congregation had a different culture than the one in Des Moines because as a college town it had more turnover with the university of student and faculty members of the church. Many of them did not have much money or high status jobs, so by necessity the group was less classist and open to different types of people as far as employment and income. Not surprisingly, that group was always more accepting and welcoming to me than the Des Moines church. But the problem with going there is that I am the wrong age to meet someone to date there. The students are too young for me and the faculty are too old and mostly retired. It is also a much smaller congregation than the one in Des Moines and the minister is not that interesting to listen to. They also have very few social events or activities for adults.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Robecology comments on Apr 1, 2019:

You mention baldness as a feature that's been removed...which could be an interesting plus for bald men! Apparently their admins have found that demanding "having hair" is too superficial...so go with it! If it comes up in a conversation don't hide it....but I'm guessing once you're face to ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 3, 2019:

@Robecology Twice I have tried to reply and have lost the page, must have had too long of a comment. Rob, thanks for being supportive, but I really feel I have no choice about using Batch or something like it. IRL just does not present enough regular opportunities to meet women and anyway I just don't have much in the way of confidence and skills when it comes to meeting women in public or at events. Batch at least has a deeper pool of women for me to approach that seem to be single and looking, vs, IRL you can only guess and assume which women at a place are available and interested/looking. Plus, you already have some info to go on about their compatibility vs. IRl you have just their looks and maybe some idea of a common interest if you see them at an event. At least at any time on Batch there is a pool of several hundred women my age in my area when I do a mutual match search. I don't want to wait several more years on my own to meet someone and IRL by itself is not going to do it. I may soon swallow my disgust and go back to the local Unitarian church where there are some women my age. Agnostic is a dead end for me as in over two years on here I have yet to meet anyone in person and no new women my age have joined in over 2 years in my area. I am also going to try a Meetup.com group for singles who are looking to date that is led by a dating and relationship coach. Hopefully I can make a friend or two there that is interested in talking or meeting regularly to discuss the dating battles as all of my friends are married and either don't get what it's like or just aren't interested in hearing about the struggle. That group only meets once a month so what I need is a friend or two from it that wants to be like a 12-step sponsor with each other so we can frequently talk about and support each other with the process.

"Medicine, law, business, engineering, these are noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 3, 2019:

Look where it got him at the end of the movie. Sad, but inspiring movie.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 3, 2019:

@bleurowz I dunno, American society today seems just as materialistic as then.

I am the eldest son of a Austrian father and German mother and I have two younger sisters.

callmedubious comments on Apr 2, 2019:

i had a similar experience with my sister when my mother died. ppl can be weasels even siblings.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 3, 2019:

My late wife's sister tried to cheat my wife out of her share of their mother's home after their mother died. Marge was not going to pay my wife her share after the house was sold and when my wife called her to ask when Marge would be sending her the money, Marge told my wife " I wasn't going to pay you because you don't need the money, you already have a lot of it" . My wife had to hire a lawyer from across the country where Marge lives and threaten to sue her, as the mother's will said that the house went to both of them equally. Marge then caved and agreed to pay, but my wife was generous and forgiving enough to let her pay it back over two years in an annuity. I would not have been so forgiving, but my wife had no other immediate family left. Neither of us trusted Marge with any money after that.

Gracie is beggggging for food.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 2, 2019:

Why not just one bowl? She obviously is not going to end up just skin and bones...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 2, 2019:

@GinaKay One bowl for more than one cat can sometimes be problematic. I knew a neighbor cat that would get very neurotic and anxious during the winter from being kept inside all the time. So he would compensate every winter by pushing the other cats away from the food and eating all of it himself like a pig. He always put on a lot of winter fat...He was very spoiled and privileged compared to the other cats and he knew it.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Chooseluv comments on Apr 2, 2019:

If it means anything, I'm a hairstylist and I don't care about dating men that are bald or balding. I still find the guys sexy it really doesn't matter to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 2, 2019:

@Chooseluv It's better if the other person's profile contains the info you want to begin with, rather than having to message them and ask questions, esp. since 90% of my initial messages to women on Batch go unanswered, so asking the woman for info that isn't in their profile is usually a waste of time. As for photo images, you're right. All a profile really needs is one close up head shot and one full body shot that is not too far away. Most profiles contain one of each of these types, as well as a few others.

Gracie is beggggging for food.

SeaGreenEyez comments on Apr 2, 2019:

Cats are just funny. We had one that took 1 kibble from his bowl, dropped it in the water bowl, then eat. Every ... single ... time ... same drill. OCD much? ?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 2, 2019:

Why wouldn't some cats be as OCD as many hoomans? There must be pet meds for that...I know I've seen cats that are as neurotic as most humans.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Robecology comments on Apr 1, 2019:

You mention baldness as a feature that's been removed...which could be an interesting plus for bald men! Apparently their admins have found that demanding "having hair" is too superficial...so go with it! If it comes up in a conversation don't hide it....but I'm guessing once you're face to ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 2, 2019:

@A2Jennifer Yeah, all the paid dating sites seem to use billing practices that try to trick people into renewing and paying for another membership. They figure most people won't fight it or stay on top of their renewal period enough to cancel in time before the auto renewal. Like I said today in my new comment on top of the thread, it's all about the money to them rather than customer service or actually wanting you to find a partner.

Update on my last post In case you havent read it, basically i had a potential opportunity to ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 2, 2019:

I dunno, I personally would feel weird about trying to meet up with her on the trail. Odds are you would have to go back several times to show up when she was there. I say go back to the restaurant and try again. Life is short, it's worth the risk. Good luck.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 2, 2019:

@bloodypoptart That could work out too, but you seemed to say that this waitress seemed to be interested in you...

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Chooseluv comments on Apr 2, 2019:

If it means anything, I'm a hairstylist and I don't care about dating men that are bald or balding. I still find the guys sexy it really doesn't matter to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 2, 2019:

I appreciate your opinion. My point is more about the paid site taking away the info on profiles that helps members better select who is more compatible and also indicate what they are looking for in a partner. The site can't force its members to provide any more about themselves than the member wants to (such as requiring them to have at least one photo that is a full body shot or even a photo at all) or even make them be honest in their profile info, but they can at least try to provide profile formats that allow for as much useful info as possible for those members that want to share it or use it in their search. Maybe it's like a friend of mine told me when I shared about this news with him. He told me the paid sites don't want you to actually find a partner on their site because once you do, they lose you as a paying customer. Doesn't sound that overly cynical to me. They want your money, not for you to quit needing them.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Booklover comments on Apr 2, 2019:

I understand what you are saying about lack of information. I'm a fat person and what's the point of writing someone who can't stand fat women even if everything else is a perfect match. I said as much to the admin of No Harmony and they said something along the lines of they couldn't tell about ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 2, 2019:

That's my point, and thank you. I would rather know up front which women don't want a bald man and who is open to it so I don't waste my time and effort messaging the women who aren't. Same situation as you. I would think paid sites that cared about customer service would want to provide more info in the profiles for other members to use rather than less.... The admin. of No Harmony was being a typical disingenuous corporate weasel in saying they "couldn't tell about looks" or whatever the hell he was saying. He knows damn well that looks are very important to most people on dating sites or they wouldn't strongly urge or even require them for their members to provide in profiles.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Freethinkingxx comments on Apr 2, 2019:

That kind of sucks, especially since I know many women, including myself, who are into bald men. Especially if you go all in and shave it clean! TMI?! LOL

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 2, 2019:

I think the women on Agnostic are more open-minded about baldness with men, esp. women who are my age or older, than most women in the general population. That is probably because this community is more open-minded, less conformist, and less superficial than most folks. Probably because we are also more intellectual than most. But I stand by my % in the post, that about 40% of women my age who are on the paid site do want only men with hair on their head. As far as my own attitude about my baldness, it's really more a combination of confidence, as azzow2 said, and my strong stubbornness to be honest and authentic about myself, including how I look. I would rather be open and honest about how I look and being bald than try to hide behind wearing ballcaps and combing over or growing out my hair on the sides. I see that as not only fooling no one, but also showing underconfidence and trying to be inauthentic. People may not like me, but they will know me for who I am and will never accuse me of being phony. And I am very proud of that and feel it is unique in a good way. Too bad you live out there, lol...

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Deiter comments on Apr 1, 2019:

Money always cures baldness. Or, some other blinding trait like *cooking* or *fixes cars* or *abs that can grate cheese.* I’m sure you can come up with something.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 2, 2019:

@Deiter Thank you Deiter. In all seriousness, despite the group's digression into humor about baldness, your opinion and empathy count a lot with me.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

ShadowAmicus comments on Apr 2, 2019:

I think you are getting too wrapped up in the baldness issue. I shave my head, by choice, and some women hate it (or me) - others really like it ..(but don't know much about me). I don't expect the ladies options include do you shave? or options of bald, brazillian, landing strip etc - which is ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 2, 2019:

I hear you. It's just that in online dating, vs. offline encounters when you first meet in person instead of thru a profile on a screen, is that baldness is just another item that plays into the big online sorting process that may, but usually doesn't, lead to an exchange of messages or a phone call where the mental compatibility then does come into play. Until then, the mental really doesn't matter when the other person is just looking at pics and some other info....

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 1, 2019:

What about the other traits of income level or occupational category? Would you want to know what the person was looking for in those trait categories? As well as what income level they were at?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 2, 2019:

@IrishTxJudy Of course, with all of these traits, people can lie and, except for the photos, you have no way of seeing anything to contradict what they choose to share about themselves. Still, I think most people are fairly honest, at least here in Iowa, in how they answer the trait items in the profile, where they just click on buttons to select categories. And even if they lie about themselves in that category selection, what matters more to me and most people is getting the most info possible about what they are looking for, which is info you never get if you just meet someone face to face to start with instead of thru a profile. I hear all of you that are basically saying, "I am who I am and if they aren't looking for or interested in me, it's no loss, their loss, etc." I get that. I just don't want to waste my time reaching out to women that are not my type if I can avoid that thru some info that used to be available until now on Batch. They are clearly not customer-friendly or service oriented.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

mischl comments on Apr 1, 2019:

As a former user of Rhymes-with-Batch, I had problems trying to determine body type. I'm especially not attractive to heavier women. Can't help it, I'm wired that way. After several more attempts with other dating sites, I've given it up. I'm concentrating on my work and, only as a last resort, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 1, 2019:

@UUNJ As for the member themselves, the body type categories are pretty unimportant and most people just select About Average for themselves. The photos are what really matter and tell others what their body type is, as long as at least one of them is a full body shot. But the site still lists in the profile what body types the member is interested in dating and this is useful to know so you don't message someone like, say, Literate Hiker who would want athletic and toned, for example, which is one of the categories, if you are overweight and in bad shape.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

WonderWartHog99 comments on Apr 1, 2019:

# Arg, me bucko. Some heads are blessed. The rest are are covered with hair.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 1, 2019:

Funny guy you are, WW...

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

azzow2 comments on Apr 1, 2019:

At least you have confidence and can be open with it. Some try and hide it and it looks worse than ever. I have been fortunate so far to keep my hair.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 1, 2019:

Thank you for calling me confident rather than defensive about being bald. Some people just can't say anything to me without being critical.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

UUNJ comments on Apr 1, 2019:

I never realized there was a Match option for “bald.” I’ve dated guys with and without hair—the only one that freaks me out is the weird nearly-bald comb-over. I suggest you not lose sleep over it. Online dating is a numbers game—contact the women who appeal to you and post your best ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 1, 2019:

Already done, results are still very poor.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Robecology comments on Apr 1, 2019:

You mention baldness as a feature that's been removed...which could be an interesting plus for bald men! Apparently their admins have found that demanding "having hair" is too superficial...so go with it! If it comes up in a conversation don't hide it....but I'm guessing once you're face to ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 1, 2019:

@A2Jennifer Just leads to more hassle for men and women with men wasting more time on uninterested women than they would and women getting more messages than they would. Since women don't do much messaging on paid sites, this would not really affect you as much as men. Jennifer, I've been on Batch for a year and half, so I figured out long ago that 90% of my messages go unanswered. I don't take it personally, but it is still very discouraging and demoralizing. Anyone who says different is either rationalizing or lying.

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Stephanie99 comments on Apr 1, 2019:

I care about the person, not his hair. Someone who is defensive because he is bald could be a problem though.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 1, 2019:

Still had to make a judgement that I was defensive. Can you ever be less than critical of me? Nice to know you are always consistent Stephanie. Always supportive. Glad you are a minority that's accepting about baldness, wish you could have left it at that. Time for your block, Stephanie...

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Deiter comments on Apr 1, 2019:

Money always cures baldness. Or, some other blinding trait like *cooking* or *fixes cars* or *abs that can grate cheese.* I’m sure you can come up with something.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 1, 2019:

Wish I had that kind of money or some other blinding trait but I don't Deiter. I just have a good and loyal heart, but that's not going to get me very far in the online sorting process....those traits don't come out or into play until someone decides to give you a chance with them for a while.....

The paid dating site I'm on-rhymes with Batch-just removed 4 traits from its checklist of member ...

Robecology comments on Apr 1, 2019:

You mention baldness as a feature that's been removed...which could be an interesting plus for bald men! Apparently their admins have found that demanding "having hair" is too superficial...so go with it! If it comes up in a conversation don't hide it....but I'm guessing once you're face to ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 1, 2019:

My whole beef about it is that altho women could always tell from the guy's profile if he was bald from the pics, the man used to be able to see the woman's profile and read in her traits list if she was open to dating bald men. Now the man can only guess if she is or just go ahead and waste time messaging her hoping she is open to that. And also women who don't want to date bald men will get more unwanted messages. Ah, the arrogance of corporate America. The rep that replied to my e-mail said they had gotten customer feedback before doing this, but I really doubt it. The face to face, BTW, is very rare and also delayed when it does happen, at least for average-looking men....

Croby Stills and Nash made some awesome music. What are your favorite tunes? I have so many.

DharmaBum50 comments on Mar 27, 2019:

I like the ones with Young added to the mix, and my fave of those is "Ohio." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1PrUU2S_iw

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 1, 2019:

That album cover by Joni Mitchell is so cool!

Had a date tonight with a significantly younger man.

TomMcGiverin comments on Mar 27, 2019:

I had my only LTR with my late wife who was 16 years older than me. We were together 22 years, married for 20. It was the best years of my adult life. Neither of us had kids or were very close to our families. We liked most of the same things and had a very healthy balance of friends and time ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 1, 2019:

@Stephanie99 We rarely seem to agree on anything, but maybe so here. As Literate Hiker recently said on this forum, most divorced people or at least many of them, are leftovers. There may be very good reasons they got divorced that were mostly due to their own faults or problems involving their ability to do relationships. With widowed people there may be less of those issues with someone you meet, with two exceptions that I can think of right off. One, is a widowed person who is not over their grief and or is still looking for a clone of their late spouse to replace them instead of being open to someone new and not always comparing them to their late spouse. The other reason is that some divorced people may not prefer someone widowed because they assume the widowed person may not be able to understand the divorced person's experience, not having been divorced themselves, and so they might not want a widowed person because they want to stay with dating only those who share their experience, which, to me, is a poor choice. But some folks care more about being with the familiar and keeping to those as much like their background as possible over trying others who might be more healthy and compatible than those they are sticking with. My late wife was divorced twice before she met me, but she was a great match for me and after dating her a while it became clear that her two divorces were more about the men than her.

Had a date tonight with a significantly younger man.

TomMcGiverin comments on Mar 27, 2019:

I had my only LTR with my late wife who was 16 years older than me. We were together 22 years, married for 20. It was the best years of my adult life. Neither of us had kids or were very close to our families. We liked most of the same things and had a very healthy balance of friends and time ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 1, 2019:

@Stephanie99 Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I certainly don't compare other women all the time to my late wife, but it seems like many women don't want to date a widower if they have not had that experience because they seem to cynically assume that the man is either not over his loss or else will be comparing women to his dead wife and not give them a fair chance, so they choose to date divorced men instead. But if the man waits too long to date after being widowed, his skills get rusty. For all practical purposes, I have been widowed for five years as my late wife had lost her mind and personality about three years before she died two years ago, so I have been more than ready to date after she died, but that's not how most women who aren't widowed see it, which is very frustrating to not be given a chance. I notice differences and similarities between her and other women, but I don't comment on it to them. If someone is defensive towards the other sex, they can always find faults with how someone else copes with their loss or their approach to dating.....

After dinner pets with Mazie.

dalefvictor comments on Mar 31, 2019:

She looks like a big girl, just like our Lilly.

TomMcGiverin replies on Mar 31, 2019:

@Kynlei She looks way bigger than that, like a fat and sassy wondercat..

Love and Relationships

Cast1es comments on Mar 27, 2019:

This was advertised as a dating site . Although some say they are here for community only , most are interested in meeting others for dating .

TomMcGiverin replies on Mar 27, 2019:

The more I look around the discussion boards, the more I think there are lots of members who say they are here only for community, but are actually interested in dating-whether it's other members of this site or from paid dating site- except they don't come out and say so since they have had little luck or lost most of their hope. No one wants to look sad or rejected to others.

Had a date tonight with a significantly younger man.

TomMcGiverin comments on Mar 27, 2019:

I had my only LTR with my late wife who was 16 years older than me. We were together 22 years, married for 20. It was the best years of my adult life. Neither of us had kids or were very close to our families. We liked most of the same things and had a very healthy balance of friends and time ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Mar 27, 2019:

@FrayedBear That's my feeling too and I said that above. Thanks for the validation.

Had a date tonight with a significantly younger man.

TomMcGiverin comments on Mar 27, 2019:

I had my only LTR with my late wife who was 16 years older than me. We were together 22 years, married for 20. It was the best years of my adult life. Neither of us had kids or were very close to our families. We liked most of the same things and had a very healthy balance of friends and time ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Mar 27, 2019:

@UUNJ True. When I read profiles on Match and also when I have traded e-mails with women on Match, it seems like most women my age, whether divorced or widowed, seem to be staying alone for a long time, usually several years, before they try dating again. Another frustrating issue.

Had a date tonight with a significantly younger man.

CaroleKay comments on Mar 27, 2019:

Although they have a lot of energy and they are fun in bed, I find they act young and I end up having little in common in the long run. my last BF was younger. Everyone is different but there's a new breed on dating sites, I'm finding, that know older women are usually dateless around 50-60 and ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Mar 27, 2019:

@CaroleKay I think you are different and a rare breed. Most other women that age group in my area, not so much.. I don't think the 50-somethings I'm talking about are lacking at all in confidence or self-esteem..They just have different interests and priorities than me as far as dating and relationships.

Had a date tonight with a significantly younger man.

TomMcGiverin comments on Mar 27, 2019:

I had my only LTR with my late wife who was 16 years older than me. We were together 22 years, married for 20. It was the best years of my adult life. Neither of us had kids or were very close to our families. We liked most of the same things and had a very healthy balance of friends and time ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Mar 27, 2019:

@sweetcharlotte Time is running short. I don't put limits on dating women who are divorced rather than widowed. I just realize that the divorced ones are less likely to be interested in me than ones who are widowed, plus the widowed ones are less likely to be bitter and/or cynical about men than widowed ones. Hence my greater interest in them over the divorced ones. That's all I'm trying to say..

Are women aware of being played by a charming, subtle flirt?

Julie808 comments on Mar 26, 2019:

We're aware and know not to take obvious flirts seriously, but it's the subtle flirts who slip under the radar sometimes. Those can fool us if subtle enough. Would be nice if the flirtatious dude's friend could tip a gal off if he sees her being taken in by someone with dubious intentions. I ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Mar 27, 2019:

@Hominid Yup, he's an ass... I just wish women could spot guys like that as easy as guys like you and me can, but then again they don't see him without the mask or act on....