Psychologists Explain How to Deal with the Nightmare that is Thanksgiving Dinner

memorylikeasieve comments on Nov 19, 2018:

That's why they're halfway across the country from me. And ne'er the twain shall meet.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 21, 2018:

As soon as my brother finished undergraduate college, he moved halfway across the country and since then he has never lived within 1000 miles of the rest of our family (who all live in the middle of the US). Since the late 80s he's lived in Puerto Rico. I said to my parents and other siblings at the time he moved away from the rest of us to the east that he was "getting a divorce from the family", but no one took me seriously. Time has only proven me right. So I totally get your point. At least you are honest about the state of things, unlike my family, including my brother.

Practice safe on-line dating.

Minta79 comments on Nov 20, 2018:

Who the fuck is giving away that much money to an online hunny? Seriously, who? I'm broke AF.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 20, 2018:

What is AF?

Today I learned not to go on Match.com while on a narcotic for a migraine. Jeebus.

RapidCityKelly comments on Nov 20, 2018:

LMAO! I have found Match to be full of men only looking for a hookup in my demographic (45+ females)

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 20, 2018:

It may vary some by geo area. I see you are 52. In my area on Match, the women 45-52 mostly appear to be cougars who are only seeking men younger than them for casual relationships. For example, most women your age will not date even a 58 yo man. Having said that, most of the men your age are only interested in dating women younger than them or at most the same age as them.

Why ghosting hurts. [psychologytoday.com]

Deiter comments on Nov 20, 2018:

Sure, ghosting hurts. So does being spurned with a bulls--t explanation. There's a whole panoply of things people do to spite lovers/spouses/friends to inflict intentional pain, whether as a defense or an offense. You could argue the differences in how those experiences feel is purely academic. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 20, 2018:

@Deiter Thanks Deiter. All your points are valid. When abuse is already involved on the part of the person who was ghosted, it changes everything. And as men, we have less to fear from the other party as far as physical revenge for ending the relationship, not that it still doesn't happen sometimes, I'm sure, on the part of spurned women.

Why ghosting hurts. [psychologytoday.com]

Deiter comments on Nov 20, 2018:

Sure, ghosting hurts. So does being spurned with a bulls--t explanation. There's a whole panoply of things people do to spite lovers/spouses/friends to inflict intentional pain, whether as a defense or an offense. You could argue the differences in how those experiences feel is purely academic. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 20, 2018:

I hear you Deiter and I mostly agree, esp. about the job-hunting part, which really is an abuse of power on their part. I am so damn glad to be retired and no longer forced to ever participate in that abuse again or be under the thumb of an employer. We differ in that I have never ghosted, so I haven't been on both sides. When the only sin of the victim in most cases of ghosting is being interested in the other party and having hope that the relationship will succeed, I find it inappropriate or unfair to blame the victim as passive-aggressive for not seeing the red flags you claim they missed. Since the perpetrator is usually witholding information from them about how they really feel and what they are doing behind the victim's back. The abuser sees everything they are doing and knows what they are feeling too, so I think it's unfair to blame the victim, who really may be unaware thru no fault of their own. You talk about power imbalances, why blame the victim too if there is an awareness imbalance that is beyond the victim's ability? You also say relationships always involve hurt when they end. Sure, I agree with that as they involve flawed human beings who cause hurt even when they try and do their best. But ghosting on the part of the ghoster involves causing hurt knowingly while NOT trying to do their best by the other person and instead taking the easiest way out for them. To me, that is not excusable, except when the other person has been abusive and there may not be any other way to get out of the relationship without putting their safety at risk. BTW, I think you are a very smart, wise fellow from your posts and comments I've read. I've rejected a few women in my life and it was miserable, but I did it without ghosting....

Dating past 40 question: your looks are gone, how do you find a mate in this ...

Aushra comments on Nov 20, 2018:

My looks aren't gone. They are just worse than before. LOL. In my experience, I find that so many men are very shallow when it comes to looks. One one hand, they can have a woman in their own age range with average or below average looks where the chemistry is awesome. The other hand, they can ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 20, 2018:

Can't say my experience on Match squares with that. It seems that very few of the younger women will date someone more that a few years older than them, according to their stated dating age ranges in their profiles, so there can't be that many men who are able to get the younger women from dating sites to date them. I'm also assuming these older men must be very good-looking to attract the minority of younger women who will date an older man from a dating site. Maybe you're only talking about the men who meet women offline in the real world? Or are you talking about your past dating experience of offline dating?

"You have to love yourself before you love someone else"... discuss 🤔

memorylikeasieve comments on Nov 19, 2018:

I am so sick of seeing that. It's a slap in the face to people with depression.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 20, 2018:

@Marcie1974 I'd prefer the truth over a made-up lame excuse because at that point the interaction is obviously going to end, at least on my part, so why care about sparing my feelings on why they don't want to date me? I don't give second chances to someone who does that and they don't really care about me or my feelings at that point, so the only thing they have to lose then by being honest is their own delusion and appearance about being a decent, "nice" person. Which I suppose is precious to them and their false self-image.

Dating woes

Marcie1974 comments on Nov 19, 2018:

I’m 44 and they only seem to want sex. Either one night or FWB. No one actually wants to date. So far I’ve only encountered 2 who wanted to date. One ended up being pretty conservative....but we’re still friends and he gives good dating advice. The other didn’t feel a spark for me ?

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 20, 2018:

@Marcie1974 So simply put and appropriate....

Dating woes

GwenC comments on Nov 19, 2018:

Every man I meet seems to only be looking for a FWB. Maybe it's the age group - they are all having their midlife crisis, but nothing but a hook up is not what I'm looking for. It's exhausting.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 20, 2018:

@stinklizard Friend With Benefits-Sex with no emotional ties or commitment, don't bother with going out on dates, etc.

Psychologists Explain How to Deal with the Nightmare that is Thanksgiving Dinner

CommonHuman comments on Nov 19, 2018:

I dread family time every year. The annual disappointment parade.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 20, 2018:

So do I. It makes for a long, depressing holiday season that I try to fill with as much friend time as possible....

Why ghosting hurts. [psychologytoday.com]

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 19, 2018:

I have never ghosted anyone, online or offline, nor have I ever stood anyone up for a date. My friends have never stood me up for a meeting. If they did without working it out in a healthy way to regain my trust, we would be done. People can blame it on the online dating culture or, for all I care, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 20, 2018:

@UUNJ Thank you. I am glad I found this site and am proud that I am an Agnostic who has high moral and ethical standards, without the benefit or requirements of belief in a God, religion, or afterlife's reward or punishment to motivate me to have those standards or live this way. We are all aware of how most people who are believers assume that we have no morals or ethics because we are Agnostic or Atheist. That's why it pains me to see people here imply that ghosting and such is no big deal morally or ethically because shit happens, everybody or almost everybody does it, etc. It's that kind of thing that helps allow the mainstream world to defame us, living down to their level instead of being better than the many hypocrite believers out there. That's one reason I am uncomfortable with my local Unitarian church where I used to be a member. Lots of hypocrites who are quick to rally around gay rights, Black Lives Matter, etc. while in the meantime they look down on the poorer members of the church, practice ghosting, treat other members of the church or even ones who used to be their friends as disposable, and ignore new people as unwelcome unless they seem fit to join their particular clique. Just gets too disgusting after a while to keep showing up.

Dating woes

IamNobody comments on Nov 19, 2018:

Why? ... What do they usually want to change?

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 19, 2018:

@Capricorn Online dating is continuing to teach me that right and fair have nothing to do with how most people play that game, meaning online dating. I assume offline dating is no different.

Dating woes

IamNobody comments on Nov 19, 2018:

Why? ... What do they usually want to change?

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 19, 2018:

@Capricorn I get that Capricorn. I was merely explaining that many OTHER women are that shallow and that's why these guys stay the way they are. Why should they change when they are already getting what they want?

Dating woes

jondspen comments on Nov 19, 2018:

Hmmm...that's odd. Usually it's the women who feel they have to fix the man they are dating (dress better, get better friends, get a better job, be more ambitious, stop flirting, clean house/put down tolite seat for her b/c she can't seem to see the benefits of looking before you put your ass on ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 19, 2018:

@Capricorn It isn't, but they may not have the looks that you are used to with the men you date. It's a hard pill to swallow that we both may have to drop our standards a bit on looks to meet someone that is right for us personalitywise. I have met exceptions to the rule, but most people with great looks do not have the best character and personality, mainly because they've never needed to develop those qualities when their looks could always carry things for them and get them everything they wanted.

Dating woes

IamNobody comments on Nov 19, 2018:

Why? ... What do they usually want to change?

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 19, 2018:

@Capricorn The problem with these guys is, unfortunately, that too many other women are attracted to them just on looks......

"You have to love yourself before you love someone else"... discuss 🤔

memorylikeasieve comments on Nov 19, 2018:

I am so sick of seeing that. It's a slap in the face to people with depression.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 19, 2018:

@Marcie1974 Having a hard time myself. Posted on here yesterday about having been stood up for the second time in a row that I had plans to meet someone from a dating site-different women a couple months apart-and I ended up getting trolled by a few asshole guys on here after everyone else was helpful, supportive or sympathetic. So, I can relate Marcie. Some folks like to kick you when you're down instead of acting like a decent human being. I had to delete the thread. It's hard to accept that even on here some people will be abusive bullies.

Dating woes

IamNobody comments on Nov 19, 2018:

Why? ... What do they usually want to change?

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 19, 2018:

@Capricorn I have no doubt that you are very candid, but it's probably likely that these guys either don't bother to read your whole profile carefully or else just blow off what you say in it because they like your looks and want to sleep with you. And if they are good-looking, they can get away with being slobs and jerks because at least some of the women they message will put up with them and their behavior just because they want sex with a good-looking guy, at least for a while.

Dating woes

jondspen comments on Nov 19, 2018:

Hmmm...that's odd. Usually it's the women who feel they have to fix the man they are dating (dress better, get better friends, get a better job, be more ambitious, stop flirting, clean house/put down tolite seat for her b/c she can't seem to see the benefits of looking before you put your ass on ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 19, 2018:

I don't know if this will help Capricorn, but as far as your comment jondspen, my online dating experience suggests that women no longer pick men they want to fix and instead they just shop on the dating site for men who seem to be already just what the woman wants. What they end up getting may be very different, but the women seem only willing to meet the men who meet their whole checklist, even tho many guys may be lying a lot about their qualities. Hence all the bitterness and disappointment we regularly hear about on this site.

"You have to love yourself before you love someone else"... discuss 🤔

memorylikeasieve comments on Nov 19, 2018:

I am so sick of seeing that. It's a slap in the face to people with depression.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 19, 2018:

@Marcie1974 Hang in there Marcie... You deserve love and a relationship in your future.

How do you handle when someone obviously lies to you?

HardBlues69 comments on Nov 18, 2018:

I don't know. I know I've lied. We're all human. So with that being said I think it just depends on the person and the situation. And how you handle it. It's very personal!

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 19, 2018:

@RapidCityKelly You call them out and they do not change. At that point you can either drop them from your life or keep them in, but with the latter choice they know full well that they can keep lying to you and now hold all the power in the relationship because you have now given it away to them. Can only speak for me, but I'd rather leave than stay powerless and frustrated.

Men look at my profile at a of 5-1 more than women.

Silver1wun comments on Nov 19, 2018:

It isn't a big surprise here. Many of them are probably thinking WHAT??! Did that come out of a him? Then they hop over and try to figure it out. From the horror stories one hears from women, just hovering or visiting isn't a big deal. I participate in another site called 'Silver ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 19, 2018:

I'm 11 years younger than you and I can assure you for this guy, who's relatively old for Match, the odds and choices do not seem very much in my favor. Maybe I'm on the wrong site and not old enough yet to enjoy your advantage. I wonder if things do improve once a man gets to be mid-sixties on dating sites or if it's more like 70?

For those single people out there, it’s already hard enough finding a compatible “other half” ...

Shefree comments on Nov 16, 2018:

My late husband was a deist bordering on agnostic...which is like finding a needle in a haystack where I live (rural Tn) Since losing him to cancer the only two serious relationships I have had were with a non church going believer and a non practicing Jew. They both had a hard time dealing with my ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 19, 2018:

@pmzm Unitarians are atheists and agnostics hanging out for community and religious ed for their kids, things they can't get outside that denomination (at least in the same amounts) as they can with a UU church. If all you care about is finding someone to date that shares your non-beliefs, this is the place to fish. If you want ethical and moral purity, sincerity, and genuine community, it can vary greatly from one UU congregation to another. Like any denomination or church, you get your share of hypocrisy, phoniness, classism, cliquishness, etc. Buyer beware.

Men look at my profile at a of 5-1 more than women.

Aushra comments on Nov 18, 2018:

Sizing up the competition? :-) I look at both women's and men's profiles if I happen to like one of their comments or posts. Mostly out of curiosity and to see if we have anything in common.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 19, 2018:

On Match I sometimes view men's profiles, but only to sample the competition. On here, it's only to see who I'm talking to or learn more about what may be behind someone's posts or comments. I still get more women viewing my profile here than men, but it's fairly even numbers.

How do you handle when someone obviously lies to you?

RapidCityKelly comments on Nov 18, 2018:

Lately it seems like everyone lies. I have a boss that told me that she doesn't want me to think for myself and run all of my decisions by her, then a month later she tells me to be 'proactive'. I have know men that lie about their ex's, financial situation, etc. I just wonder if anyone tells the ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 18, 2018:

I always do and it seldom gets me rewarded. More often, as a priest who first taught me this saying said, "No good deed goes unpunished".

I have been seeking female companionship for awhile now,here and on assorted other sites.

SkotlandSkye comments on Nov 16, 2018:

Maybe it’s your lack of photos, sparse BIO, and generally pissy outlook on life?

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 18, 2018:

@273kelvin I think you're totally right in your analysis and the only other thing I would add is that timing is also critical unless you are above average looking or better. The reason is that when a woman joins a dating site, esp. if she is above average looking, she will get a hundred messages her first week from all the men noticing her as new and taking their shot with her. If your looks don't really stand out from the rest of the pack, your first message to her will get buried in the pile of a hundred messages and probably never even be read by her while she is meanwhile sorting thru the messages of the thirty best-looking men (or, as you say Kevin, the ten best prospects) who sent her messages that week and selecting thru further e-mails who she will meet in person. Meanwhile, the average-looking guy's message never ends up getting read nor does his profile. So, he's out of the running for good early on because he didn't make the first cut. Brutal, but true. That's why I am searching the site every day for the new profiles so I can be one of the first messagers to that person. It's the only way I have ever got a woman who was above average-looking to ever message me back after they join.

How to message someone on a dating site - [soulmates.

TheMiddleWay comments on Nov 16, 2018:

I'm on A LOT of dating sites (it's brutal out there) and the majority of women have "I just want someone to make me laugh" on their profiles. It's pretty cookie cutter to be honest. But when I see that, I think (but don't say ;) ) a) Why can't you make yourself laugh? and b) Is your life so ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 18, 2018:

I used to know a guy that was a longtime salesman and very wise observer of human behavior. He always said that humor was very charming and effective with most women as long as it was non-threatening in its form. He said that women want a man who can make fun of himself and lighten things up without ever putting anyone else down, esp. the woman or other women. He saw other men use this with women and they would eat it up because the guy came off indirectly as a nice guy who could never be a threat to them by being mean, critical, etc. He also observed that with some guys it was a complete act and the guy would never act that way around guys, but he knew how to work it around women, who were so relieved to meet a man who made them feel lighter and safe that they bought it, at least until he let the act slide. With the aid of my friend, I learned how to spot this type and see the doofus act for what it was. Not surprisingly, these kinds of guys have no real male friends. When I spot this type, I stay the hell away from them and warn the women I know about what I suspect.

How to message someone on a dating site - [soulmates.

NickNakorn comments on Nov 17, 2018:

This stood out: " Anyone who has ever used a dating site will tell you that your inbox quickly fills up with these identical cut and paste messages from people who are sending the same words to everyone they vaguely like the look of." Well I'm on a few dating sites and my inbox is usually ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 18, 2018:

Two reasons for that. One, women on paid dating sites are not very aggressive at all about reaching out and messaging men, at least, unless you are in the top 30% of looks for the men on that site. Research about OK Cupid bore this out. Secondly, I've heard that most if not all the paid sites have a lopsided ratio of men to women, so you have more competition than women do on the site. I know another guy that, like you and I appear to be, is average-looking, so we get few women messaging us, as we don't fall into that 30%. But men are worse about only seeking the best-looking. On OK Cupid the research found that the men were only messaging the top 10% best-looking women on there.

Choose a partner ?

azzow2 comments on Nov 17, 2018:

The major problem we have in our society today is every thing is looked at as disposable.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 17, 2018:

Man is that ever the truth!

. Not necessarily Marry but Who agrees?

LadyAlyxandrea comments on Nov 17, 2018:

Marry a rich man. Divorce him and take half his stuff. Marry a good man you love. Then you're rich AND happy.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 17, 2018:

@LadyAlyxandrea It worked for Anna Nichole until she got hooked on the drugs....... That appears to be the plan of choice for golddiggers, meaning your suggestion.

. Not necessarily Marry but Who agrees?

LadyAlyxandrea comments on Nov 17, 2018:

Marry a rich man. Divorce him and take half his stuff. Marry a good man you love. Then you're rich AND happy.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 17, 2018:

@LadyAlyxandrea Opportunists- Why lawyers invented pre-nups.....

Men Say They Want A Smart Women...Until They Date One | I Heart Intelligence.com

TheAstroChuck comments on Nov 16, 2018:

There are some highly-intelligent accomplished women who want their men to be just a little bit smarter, to be stronger, and to have greater athletic prowess compared to themselves. There are also men who want to be "better" than their spouse at everything, especially historically. (My father ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 16, 2018:

@Spudnut Apparently not in your case. I'm glad you found a man you loved for his heart over his appearance. I still think you are a rare exception among women.

Men Say They Want A Smart Women...Until They Date One | I Heart Intelligence.com

TheAstroChuck comments on Nov 16, 2018:

There are some highly-intelligent accomplished women who want their men to be just a little bit smarter, to be stronger, and to have greater athletic prowess compared to themselves. There are also men who want to be "better" than their spouse at everything, especially historically. (My father ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 16, 2018:

I hear ya, I'm more intimidated by beauty than intellect because I figure I can hold my own on the former, but the latter makes me doubt they are likely to be that attracted to me. Fortunately these days we see profile pics with online dating and are prepared (at least when the pics are current) for how someone will look when we actually meet them. My late wife was smarter than me and had better emotional intelligence, but I found it attractive, not intimidating.

Men Say They Want A Smart Women...Until They Date One | I Heart Intelligence.com

Spudnut comments on Nov 16, 2018:

Although I'm responding to this from only one woman's perspective, it's been my experience that confident, self assured men truly *do* want to be with a smart woman. Only an insecure, small, arrogant man would want to feel he's 'above' his partner ~ and the same is true for women who need to feel ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 16, 2018:

Totally agree about how intelligence and education don't have to be just about formal education and what degrees they have. I would date an intelligent, curious well-read woman even if she never went past high school in formal education. It's just that I haven't met someone like that yet that was available, but if there was physical attraction and common interests, for sure.

Tried Match.

MacTavish comments on Nov 15, 2018:

Mostly around here those sites are sausage parties.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 16, 2018:

It probably does vary quite a bit for certain geographic areas, but from what I've read online research on the paid dating sites says the overall gender ratios for membership are not very far apart, less than 5%. However, just like in some geo areas, the gender ratio on some sites can vary a lot for some age groups, like younger men and older age women.

Tried Match.

Secretguy comments on Nov 15, 2018:

I don't get why anyone would use a dating site. Seems sad to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 16, 2018:

It is sad, but when you've tried offline and it never works or only exposes you to comparatively tiny amounts of available people, you don't feel like waiting years for the chance of meeting someone compatible.

Would like to ask if some women are looking for a nice guy who treats them right how come I never ...

dahermit comments on Nov 12, 2018:

From just my observation on what attracted women over my lifetime, it is mostly physical. Women, girls who would not give me the time of day when I was overweight would aggressively hit on me when my weight was proportional to my height (at least four cycles in my lifetime). I have also observed ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 15, 2018:

@MrLizard I guess not. I think dahermit is right about what seems to matter to most women, both on dating sites and off them. I think this site might be an exception as far as what matters to most women. Agnostics and Atheists don't seem to be as focused on material stuff, looks, or celebrity as the rest of the human herd.

How stupid am I for wanting to marry a virgin?

stinkeye_a comments on Nov 15, 2018:

I'm pretty sure the Big Deal surrounding a woman's "viriginity" (more on that later) is a direct product of the effective **breeding chattel slave-status** of women from **antiquated patriarchal systems** : you need to make sure you're not supporting or leaving legacy to offspring that aren't yours,...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 15, 2018:

@stinkeye_a Ah.. a kindred soul! You have a sick, twisted sense of humor like me... At the same time, I am a very non-violent type, just enjoy that kind of humor.

Would like to ask if some women are looking for a nice guy who treats them right how come I never ...

dahermit comments on Nov 12, 2018:

From just my observation on what attracted women over my lifetime, it is mostly physical. Women, girls who would not give me the time of day when I was overweight would aggressively hit on me when my weight was proportional to my height (at least four cycles in my lifetime). I have also observed ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 15, 2018:

@MrLizard Sadly tho, he's right Liz. While it is a generalization, and not always true, it sure appears to be true on dating sites, where looks and money do really count with most women.

How stupid am I for wanting to marry a virgin?

stinkeye_a comments on Nov 15, 2018:

I'm pretty sure the Big Deal surrounding a woman's "viriginity" (more on that later) is a direct product of the effective **breeding chattel slave-status** of women from **antiquated patriarchal systems** : you need to make sure you're not supporting or leaving legacy to offspring that aren't yours,...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 15, 2018:

@stinkeye_a Thanks for the info. I think we all feel a bit like that at times, at least I do. At least that's a little milder than running down the street with an automatic weapon, lol! Feeling stabby suggests a much lower kill rate.........

How stupid am I for wanting to marry a virgin?

stinkeye_a comments on Nov 15, 2018:

I'm pretty sure the Big Deal surrounding a woman's "viriginity" (more on that later) is a direct product of the effective **breeding chattel slave-status** of women from **antiquated patriarchal systems** : you need to make sure you're not supporting or leaving legacy to offspring that aren't yours,...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 15, 2018:

@stinkeye_a Ok, thanks. Next, what does stabby mean? That's a new one to for me, but I'm guessing from your context it means something disagreeable regarding one's mood.

Tried Match.

onedayatatime comments on Nov 15, 2018:

I suspect the dating sites are all owned by the same company and are now a big scam.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 15, 2018:

@clarkems To my knowledge, this might be the only site that fits that definition of a saposexul dating site. The site seems to attract pretty much intellectuals and I assume none of them are looking to date someone not on that level just because they are sexually attractive, but I could be wrong about that. If so, it would be a purely physical relationship and probably wouldn't last that long.

How stupid am I for wanting to marry a virgin?

stinkeye_a comments on Nov 15, 2018:

I'm pretty sure the Big Deal surrounding a woman's "viriginity" (more on that later) is a direct product of the effective **breeding chattel slave-status** of women from **antiquated patriarchal systems** : you need to make sure you're not supporting or leaving legacy to offspring that aren't yours,...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 15, 2018:

What does the term incel mean?

Tried Match.

onedayatatime comments on Nov 15, 2018:

I suspect the dating sites are all owned by the same company and are now a big scam.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 15, 2018:

@clarkems Not familiar with that term. What is a sapiosexual?

Tried Match.

onedayatatime comments on Nov 15, 2018:

I suspect the dating sites are all owned by the same company and are now a big scam.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 15, 2018:

@clarkems Not in my local area. I looked into Meetups before I joined Match and all it had were pretty much people way younger than me. Not interested in dating 15-20 years younger than me and neither are they interested in old guys.

Tried Match.

onedayatatime comments on Nov 15, 2018:

I suspect the dating sites are all owned by the same company and are now a big scam.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 15, 2018:

They pretty much are all owned by one company and so they have no incentive to compete or provide great service. I've noticed a clear decline in the last few months on Match. But matchmaking services are no real alternative either. I looked into that and they quoted me $1250 for a 6 mo. period with a garauntee of only 2 matches.

Yep it happens more than it should. And it really throws you when it does.

hippydog comments on Nov 13, 2018:

Havent had that happen to me nor have a done it someone.. it still blows my mind that ghosting is even a thing in today's modern dating world.. hopefully it wasnt someone in this group..

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 14, 2018:

Someone from this site ghosted me thru PMing.

Back on here again.

hippydog comments on Nov 13, 2018:

Are you still talking to her?

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 14, 2018:

@MichaelSpinler Dude, I give you credit for showing some class and not naming her to the community. If you had, you would have looked pretty bad and probably been sanctioned by the mods, even tho you sound angry enough to have thought about it. Maybe that one month lag helped you think that thru.

Human Connection is fundamentally difficult.

HippieChick58 comments on Nov 12, 2018:

I am not someone who has lots of friends. I tend to like many things that are solitary, and I am not one for parties or big groups of people. I have a few good friends, my family, and lots of acquaintances. I generally have something in common with those who are friends, as it is for all of us. Many...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 13, 2018:

@HippieChick58 Yes, I thought maybe it was a military term.

Human Connection is fundamentally difficult.

HippieChick58 comments on Nov 12, 2018:

I am not someone who has lots of friends. I tend to like many things that are solitary, and I am not one for parties or big groups of people. I have a few good friends, my family, and lots of acquaintances. I generally have something in common with those who are friends, as it is for all of us. Many...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 13, 2018:

@HippieChick58 What is o dark thirty?

Back on here again.

mistymoon77 comments on Nov 13, 2018:

That is one of the biggest hurdles to jump is the distance thing on here. Many of us have run across this more than once. Could have been her escape route out knowing this up front. Just wasn't meant to be. It is tough, most of us have been there or dealing with it on some level knowing there is...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 13, 2018:

@MichaelSpinler You'll have to accept never getting the truth from her because she's not going to suddenly develop some guts and tell you the truth. She's not going to change her nature. Also, don't think that guilt is going to cause her to tell you the truth later on. Once someone has decided to reject you, they no longer give a damn about what you think of them. It 's all part of choosing to erase someone from your life and move on, so they decide to will themselves to stop thinking or feeling anything about you.

Back on here again.

mistymoon77 comments on Nov 13, 2018:

That is one of the biggest hurdles to jump is the distance thing on here. Many of us have run across this more than once. Could have been her escape route out knowing this up front. Just wasn't meant to be. It is tough, most of us have been there or dealing with it on some level knowing there is...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 13, 2018:

@MichaelSpinler Yup, she's lying and tossing out excuses.

Back on here again.

HardBlues69 comments on Nov 13, 2018:

Well don't know if this helps much. But you can always be grateful it didn't go any further and then happen. I wish you the best. And I wish for myself as well.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 13, 2018:

@MichaelSpinler Some people do that, use a lame BS excuse instead of saying the real reason why they reject you. Had it done to me by someone on this site as why they wouldn't meet me. You'll never know for sure the real reason they rejected you and in the end it really doesn't matter much. It's more about them than you.

Would like to ask if some women are looking for a nice guy who treats them right how come I never ...

Paracosm comments on Nov 12, 2018:

I avoid men who claim to be nice guys. They have always turned out to have a sense of entitlement towards women.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 13, 2018:

Maybe in your experience, but we do exist so I think your generality is not always right or true about all men who claim to be nice guys. And lying is not limited to one gender. I'm sure that a lot of the many women on Match I see claiming to be great moms, close to their families, etc, are lying but I know that not all of them could be that way. So I don't assume they are ALL lying.

Human Connection is fundamentally difficult.

HippieChick58 comments on Nov 12, 2018:

I am not someone who has lots of friends. I tend to like many things that are solitary, and I am not one for parties or big groups of people. I have a few good friends, my family, and lots of acquaintances. I generally have something in common with those who are friends, as it is for all of us. Many...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 12, 2018:

You sound very realistic and emotionally healthy.

I turned down a guy for a date late last night at the market.

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 10, 2018:

Makes me glad that I always zip in and out fast when I buy a bunch of Healthy Choice frozen dinners. If you caught me doing that would I be rejected on that basis? Some guys either don't know how or want to cook, but they still try to eat relatively healthy.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 10, 2018:

@AmiSue Nope. I try to limit my sugar intake not so much to avoid diabetes-no history in my family- but to save on my teeth and make them last a long time. I probably still eat one candy bar on most days, but my only other snack is a chocolate chip pop tart. I think Little Debbies are kind of gross and didn't like the taste much when I did try them.

How do you feel about kids when dating?

BlackDove comments on Nov 9, 2018:

Uh, I prefer no kids, and that's because they will always come before you, especially if they are small. And I get that, but at the same time, I'd rather have the guy focused on us, and not on some small person.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 10, 2018:

@BlackDove I'm sure they are trying to impress you with those to seem like the nicest, greatest guy in the world. Too bad for them they don't realize that like me, you're just not "family-oriented" so the family pics only hurt them in your eyes. But I'm sure the family man stuff works with most women since they have a different mindset than you and me.

How do you feel about kids when dating?

BlackDove comments on Nov 9, 2018:

Uh, I prefer no kids, and that's because they will always come before you, especially if they are small. And I get that, but at the same time, I'd rather have the guy focused on us, and not on some small person.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 10, 2018:

On this issue, you're lucky to be a woman without kids because, unlike men like me who are our age, I don't have that many women to choose from that don't have kids, so I can't to be as choosy as you. And if that weren't bad enough in lowering the number of compatible women to meet on dating sites, it also appears, at least on Match, that most women our age who don't have kids are seeking only men who have kids. I'm guessing the reason for that is that, unlike you, they are thinking ahead and want a man with kids who will look after and comfort her when she is older and may end up widowed. That way her late partner's family would likely be there to comfort and look after her. So a childless couple-oriented person like you or me is seen as kind of a liability when we get to the end of middle age. The partner who already has kids is seen as the safe bet to provide the safety net the person missed out on by not having kids. Anybody agree?

Would you pay someone to date you?

hippydog comments on Sep 13, 2018:

I think it would be cheaper, longer lasting, and way more enjoyable to work on the things that's holding you back from a loving relationship. Big one I always recommend is embrace your hobbies and learn to love yourself, It's weird but I think true.. the more you learn to be yourself and love ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 9, 2018:

@LionMousePudding Your quote about research on OK Cupid sure explains a lot for me. No wonder I get so little interest from women on Match. I'm definitely not in even the top 40% group of looks on the site, so I've met 4 women in one year. I know another guy who's average-looking like me and he's had the same experience. I bet being bald also puts a man into the bottom 50% group.

Who has heard of the ex over two rule?

Deb57 comments on Nov 9, 2018:

I am a year out of an 18 year relationship, including 17 years of marriage. I'm not going to live long enough to wait 35 years before getting involved again. Although I would prefer never over a repeat of the last mistake.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 9, 2018:

Same here. Was in a 22 year relationship with my late wife and I doubt I will live much more than 15 more years, so I'm trying to date now, two years after her death. I've already been grieving her loss for 5 years already since she lost her personality and her mind by 2013 to dementia. On the other hand, my father is 90 and if I had a partner and decent health it would be fine to live that old, but I don't think that's realistic.

How do you deal with people who won't text you unless you text them first, on every instance?

KissedbySun comments on Nov 7, 2018:

Depends on the person and our relationship. Some people aren't into texting. They'd rather talk. I might text them a message and they get back to me on the phone later. I have a few friends who rarely reach out but I like to keep in touch with. It's just their personality and not a big deal. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 8, 2018:

@KissedbySun How ironic! That's exactly how it is for me. All my siblings were at my father's 90th party too recently and we got along ok, but there's no point in having contact in between those things as none of us are interested. The difference between them and me, both in the past and in nowadays, is that I don't and never did pretend about my interest or lack of it in them. They always pretended in order to keep up appearances or please my parents. My mother's been dead several years and after my father's gone I will probably never hear from anyone except maybe one sister. I used to be interested in them when before I was in my thirties, but after that I just got tired of their bullshit. so I dropped contact. I just have never believed in being phony or acting interested in people just to look good or fit in with societal rules. That's why I had the guts to buck the bandwagon on religion among other things and also identify as a socialist in the Bible Belt and redneck country. No wonder my family has always treated me like the crazy uncle who's off his psych meds.

Dating advice.

Spudnut comments on Nov 4, 2018:

I'd just be direct and go with something like ~ "Maybe the jury's still out about a possible romantic relationship between us but I liked spending time with you. Any chance you'd like to (do whatever) and gradually become better acquainted? If nothing else, there's a chance we could have a lovely ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 8, 2018:

@Spudnut I hear ya about online dating deception. I have chatted with several women on Match about photos and they all agree with me that no one's doing themselves or others a favor by trying to hide something about their body in the pics. All agreed they want to see at least one photo that has a close up of the face and one full length body pic. No need to show a lot of skin, just let others see for themselves if their body type matches the category they picked for themselves, because people often lie or are mistaken about how they look. Lying about stuff only puts off the inevitable. Can't count how many women label their body type as About Average (which the vast majority choose on their profile) on Match (one of the categories) when the truth appears to more actually be Curvy, A Few Extra Pounds, Full-Figured or Heavyset, all real Match categories based on the pics. Some seem to over-rate themselves and some under-rate themselves. So why not just post two of the above type pics and let viewers decide for themselves? Posting only a headshot or far away full length pic is not going to cut it when so many wrongly label themselves About Average, because, like so many things on dating profiles, most people will no longer take anyone's word by itself on something. And most of the time, they shouldn't.

What are some warning signs that a relationship is not going to work?

Psmintexas comments on Nov 5, 2018:

-addicts not in recovery (I won’t be an enabler or codependent) -having children or family members who are addicts not in recovery (I won’t support a codependent or enabler either) -animal haters and hunters -someone who will not respect free thinking (e.g., mainstream Christians) ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 8, 2018:

Totally agree about the line on whoring out for security. There's another part of settling concerning looks. I won't message someone on Match whose photos don't at least suggest to me some chance of being sexually attracted to them. Because I remember how much it sucked when I was young and less discriminating and honest with myself about if someone's looks attracted me much or not. It's no more fun to be the one rejecting someone later on when you know they're not attractive enough to turn you on than it is to be on the receiving end. Better to not even begin leading them or yourself on no matter how compatible they might seem otherwise. Shallow Hal was a great movie about getting beyond using looks as the sole criterion, but it was unrealistic about looks not being important in the mix, unless both people are just asexual.

Had an interesting experience today.

GwenC comments on Nov 6, 2018:

I wouldn't read too much into a half hour coffee for a first meet up. For a woman who is meeting someone from online, that's a nice, safe date that if things don't click it is not a huge time commitment.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 8, 2018:

A half hour seems kind of pessimistic and defensive. What if things go sour as you say? Well, I guess I wouldn't know since I am a man, but if things aren't going well and there's no meal involved, I would either grin and bear it while biting my tongue and stay for an hour, then gracefully thank them for meeting me and go. A woman might be afraid of the guy getting upset and confrontive if they tried the same graceful exit, but my profile already paints a very nice guy picture, or so I'm told. Maybe some women are just too burned and cynical to see that.

Had an interesting experience today.

confidentrealm comments on Nov 6, 2018:

Too bad that she wasn't.more open.minded.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 8, 2018:

True, but assuming she was being truthful, I wouldn't want someone who was strongly religious. Same with a political conservative, couldn't make it work, at least I couldn't. If they are not at least liberal, it wouldn't work. Even then if politics were important to them like it is to me, then we might clash because I see liberalism as so corrupt and a sellout compared to socialism. Someone who is centrist and doesn't care that much about politics would also be ok. Not that encouraging, I know.

Had an interesting experience today.

Shefree comments on Nov 6, 2018:

She is just more interested in sharing the experiences concerning her late husband and has no desire to get involved with a non believer. The 30 minute thing is not a big deal to me. There is nothing worse than having to spend an evening with someone when things go sour right away. Won't hurt to ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 8, 2018:

I disagree some with that. She messaged me with the idea of meeting for coffee to discuss our shared experiences BEFORE she had any idea I was Agnostic. Now, after she knows that, it's looking like she doesn't want to meet for the above discussion even tho she sent me an e-mail thanking me for pointing out how she might add something to her profile essay about her religion so men like me won't be interested in her with the religion issue being big to her. So unless I hear back from her again I'll have no idea what she is thinking since you would have thought she would have said "sure" when I messaged her last and asked if she would still like to meet for the discussion sometime. She read it a couple days ago and no reply. Ah, Christians and their sense of superiority and or maybe some fear of the Other? This was an afternoon coffee meet BTW.

How do you deal with people who won't text you unless you text them first, on every instance?

KissedbySun comments on Nov 7, 2018:

Depends on the person and our relationship. Some people aren't into texting. They'd rather talk. I might text them a message and they get back to me on the phone later. I have a few friends who rarely reach out but I like to keep in touch with. It's just their personality and not a big deal. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 8, 2018:

I don't text, don't even know how and don't want to learn. Prefer phone calls first and e-mails a distant second. Hate one-sided or controlling relationships and this poster's situation sounds like it could be both. If someone proves over time that they aren't really interested in contact with me, then I drop them. Ended up doing that with all my siblings because I got tired of feeling disrespected and not valued. My brother would pull crap like calling me the day before to have dinner when he visited from out of the country even tho my parents had already known weeks ahead that he was coming from Puerto Rico to visit my part of the country, but nobody notified me?This was just a typical example of how my siblings treated me. I won't take that from my friends for very long so being a sibling means I deserve better or we're done. That's why my friends are my real family and have been for decades.

Can we talk about communication and "ghosting" for a second?

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 5, 2018:

Maybe I'm imagining things, but didn't some woman post a comment strongly disagreeing with Pepper's original post and saying Pepper's viewpoint seemed a little abusive? That comment seems to have vanished. Can someone tell me who it was from? I had to leave before I could read it all the way thru. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 8, 2018:

@A2Jennifer Agreed Jenifer, but there are times I do feel puzzled enough to ask because of how compatible someone seemed based on the shared interests, profile essay, and shared lifestyle traits. So once in while I do ask. Most of them never reply, some do and answer honestly, and a few do answer and seem to be lying. It all amounts to less than a couple dozen a year of rejection where I have cared enough to ask.

Had an interesting experience today.

creative51 comments on Nov 6, 2018:

Nothing wrong with meeting someone and sharing a cup of coffee. You do not have to date every woman you meet. Use it to practice your polite social skills.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 6, 2018:

Thanks man, I will, as long as she's agreeable to it. Haven't heard back from her on my offer to still meet for coffee to discuss our similar experience of spouses with dementia and widowhood. Would be nice if we became friends over that, but I won't be surprised if she turns me down since I don't believe in life after death, etc. so she might not want to discuss death and terminal illness now that she knows I don't believe.

Should I just give up on the search for love?

Deb57 comments on Nov 1, 2018:

Why do you have to do one or the other? I figure the odds of me meeting someone compatible enough with no huge red flags at my age are about the same hitting the lottery. I'm neither searching nor giving up. I'm going to live my life in the best way i can do so for me, and keep an open mind. If ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 6, 2018:

@Deb57 I guess I'm lucky that hygiene has never been a problem in women I've met. The thing is, hygiene is something you'll never know about someone until you meet in person while looks is something that you'll at least have a good idea of how they look from a dating site's profile pics before you meet them. That is if the pics are fairly current and they include both a facial close up and a full body pic. Those two things are now kind of standard and expected on the paid sites. If someone's looks don't pass inspection on the site, few people, men or women, will message them with an interest in meeting, no matter how compatible they might seem based on the rest of the profile. As my late icon Leonard Cohen used to say, "That's how it goes.. and everybody knows".

Dating advice.

Spudnut comments on Nov 4, 2018:

I'd just be direct and go with something like ~ "Maybe the jury's still out about a possible romantic relationship between us but I liked spending time with you. Any chance you'd like to (do whatever) and gradually become better acquainted? If nothing else, there's a chance we could have a lovely ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 6, 2018:

@Spudnut I appreciate the long reply even if I don't agree with all of it. I don't think that I define women by their bodies, as you say, any more than other men. I don't define anybody else. I do have minimum standards about who I feel I can be attracted to just as I'm sure most or all women or men have, whether they are aware and honest about it or not. And a big part of that is that I am a typical nice guy when it comes to dating, partly because I grew up Catholic and still have a healthy capacity for guilt. As a nice guy, one of my worst fears and bad memories of the past is meeting a woman or ending up dating someone who I realize just doesn't have the looks for me to be physically attracted to them, have sparks, chemistry or whatever cliché you want to use. For me, it's just as miserable to be on the rejecting end of that situation as the receiving end. And as an adult, I am determined to avoid ending up there again. So when I see someone's profile pics, if those don't make me feel some confidence that I will feel attracted, then I won't seek anything with that woman. I don't join a dating site to make a bunch of gal friends. I already have a few, believe it or not.

Can we talk about communication and "ghosting" for a second?

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 5, 2018:

Maybe I'm imagining things, but didn't some woman post a comment strongly disagreeing with Pepper's original post and saying Pepper's viewpoint seemed a little abusive? That comment seems to have vanished. Can someone tell me who it was from? I had to leave before I could read it all the way thru. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 5, 2018:

@pepperjones Sarcasm and name-calling, including profanity. I have openly shared that I don't get much interest on Match, but of course, you feel the need to mock me and insult me. Take a look in the mirror and consider yourself blocked. I'm convinced there's nothing I can learn from your posts and comments. You owe no explanations to men and I deserve no insults or vulgar name-calling from men or women, you hypocrite. I'm not afraid of you either or your attempt at bullying.

Can we talk about communication and "ghosting" for a second?

TomMcGiverin comments on Nov 5, 2018:

Maybe I'm imagining things, but didn't some woman post a comment strongly disagreeing with Pepper's original post and saying Pepper's viewpoint seemed a little abusive? That comment seems to have vanished. Can someone tell me who it was from? I had to leave before I could read it all the way thru. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 5, 2018:

@pepperjones I visited your profile to check your pics on the body type comment you made. I would have to disagree with your assessment of your looks. Don't want to have a public debate about your looks. Never said I understand what it's like to be the other gender. I only know what other women have told me. Never said women owe men an explanation of anything or vice versa between the sexes. Was not trying to insult or offend you and I don't think I did that. I am trying to promote empathy between the sexes, but it seems like your attitude is to dismiss that as useless, pointless, or beneath you. I don't think it's going to help things get any better, but you don't seem to care about that. Maybe continued gender conflict and resentment would be better?

Dating advice.

Spudnut comments on Nov 4, 2018:

I'd just be direct and go with something like ~ "Maybe the jury's still out about a possible romantic relationship between us but I liked spending time with you. Any chance you'd like to (do whatever) and gradually become better acquainted? If nothing else, there's a chance we could have a lovely ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 5, 2018:

You have to be careful offering that to someone. I've messaged a couple women on dating sites who didn't have any pics that showed their whole figure-turned out they were very overweight- but after chatting for a few messages they sent me full-body pics. I should add that they selected the same body type on their profile, full-figured or a few extra pounds, can't remember which. In each case I made the friendship offer like you and each one reacted as mad and hurt at being offered friendship as a "consolation prize" actual quote from one of them.

Dating advice.

KissedbySun comments on Nov 5, 2018:

Personally I know from the first few minutes if something isn't going to work, but not necessarily that it will. Basically I can tell you right away if I would never have sex with a person. I've never had that initial feeling of "nope, never" and then gone on to develop a relationship with a man....

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 5, 2018:

I totally agree with you about the negative chemistry meter and I also most or all men are the same way. We all have minimal standards of looks that we are seeking in a partner. At least online dating offers the chance to see pics of the person so we aren't dating totally blind like back in the 90s when I was last on my own. But I'm probably unlike you because even tho pics may not do most of us justice, I use my negative chemistry meter while I'm looking at profile pics. If someone doesn't seem attractive enough, I don't bother making the first move with a message. That way I save myself ending up on an in person meeting and dealing with a one-sided attraction. Believe it or not, I'm actually a pretty nice guy and I really hate being in that position of meeting someone and then having to reject them on their looks later on. I think most people are that way, but just don't want to admit they have some minimum looks standards because they don't want to be judged as shallow.

Can we talk about communication and "ghosting" for a second?

SukiSue comments on Nov 5, 2018:

I highly agree. If I tried to return every message that I received it would be like a full-time job and I wouldn't have a life. There are 50,000 people on this site. You can easily get 10 to 12 messages a day. Not returning communication can easily send a message that you're unavailable at this ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 5, 2018:

@Sticks48 You got it man!

Can we talk about communication and "ghosting" for a second?

SukiSue comments on Nov 5, 2018:

I highly agree. If I tried to return every message that I received it would be like a full-time job and I wouldn't have a life. There are 50,000 people on this site. You can easily get 10 to 12 messages a day. Not returning communication can easily send a message that you're unavailable at this ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 5, 2018:

@Sticks48 Your experience is very common for a guy, unless he is great-looking. Then the messages come in way more often, but still not quite as often as for most women. Men are more aggressive on dating sites than women.

Where better for something like this??

UUNJ comments on Nov 4, 2018:

The sad thing about all the scammers is that it does make us so wary and skeptical. It is possible that good people are over looked

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 4, 2018:

I'm living proof that's true.

Should I just give up on the search for love?

Deb57 comments on Nov 1, 2018:

Why do you have to do one or the other? I figure the odds of me meeting someone compatible enough with no huge red flags at my age are about the same hitting the lottery. I'm neither searching nor giving up. I'm going to live my life in the best way i can do so for me, and keep an open mind. If ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 4, 2018:

There are plenty of men out there your age without red flags, I'm sure of it. As far as having better odds than the lottery of meeting them, the question is what's your definition of compatible? Even within your area, the stumbling block may be in finding someone among those without red flags that matches your level of good looks or close to it (the all-important minimum threshold of compatibility that is almost taboo for most to discuss). Everybody has their minimum looks standards, most just won't admit it.

On a first date do you go Dutch (share the bill)?

linxminx comments on Nov 3, 2018:

Etiquette states that whomever asks for the date pays for the date. However, when I was dating, I would often insist on going dutch. My generation of men tended to think if they paid, I was obligated to put out. Sad but true.

TomMcGiverin replies on Nov 4, 2018:

@linxminx Tried to get your age from visiting your profile, but no luck. But from your description in this thread, it sounds like we're both Boomer generation. I agree with your statements about Boomer age men.

I don't know what I expected when I joined this site other than a place were I don't have to deal ...

LiterateHiker comments on Oct 30, 2018:

I call POF "Plenty of Flakes." As a hiker, I joined Fitness Singles. Met a lot of men, but nothing worked out. Dumped men for different reasons: disrespect, sexual incompatibility, constant lateness, poor communication skills, mean streak, etc. Seems like I'm dealing with leftovers. Many men...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 31, 2018:

I think it all goes both ways. Many women are divorced for good reasons, maybe not usually for the same ones that men are. Looking back on my own family and my parent's marriage, my guess about a common reason is the woman being overly-critical of the man, whether there is good reason for it or not. I also believe that in adult relationships it is rare that one person is 100% responsible for the failure of a relationship.

I don't know what I expected when I joined this site other than a place were I don't have to deal ...

Green_eyes comments on Oct 30, 2018:

I don’t utilize any online sites, I meet gentlemen doing conventional things. I get asked for my number at my sons football game, grocery store, at the gym. I’m having fun at the moment but completely open to the possibility of a relationship.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 31, 2018:

You're well above average-looking, so it's not surprising you get approached a lot by men in public. Your experience there wouldn't apply to an average-looking male, especially since women are less aggressive than men about approaching others for dating.

I don't know what I expected when I joined this site other than a place were I don't have to deal ...

Count_Viceroy comments on Oct 30, 2018:

In 4 years of online dating I met 3 people face to face. You don't want my advice

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 31, 2018:

Sheesh... I thought I was doing bad meeting only 4 women in person from one year of online dating.... How did you last 4 years?

My two relationships were initiated by the two women I was involved with.

Pfr1998 comments on Oct 31, 2018:

i was recently talking to a woman on a dating site and although she mentioned it twice i wasn't quite ready to meet IRL. Is it a turn off to ladies if they are willing to meet and the guy isn't? I've got to be the exception. it's frustrating that i can't talk to someone long enough ( email or ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 31, 2018:

You're younger and better-looking than me, so that may explain the diff between your online dating experience and mine. In my experience, most women are cautious or downright defensive about meeting in person until they have traded at least 4 or 5 e-mails or talked at least once at length on the phone.

Just to bring everyone up to speed: [youtu.be]

TomMcGiverin comments on Oct 29, 2018:

Maybe I'm just showing my age and my inability to compete with others in the online dating game (due to their having more looks and than me), but I watched the video and all it seems to amount to is how to use slang terms to trivialize and cutely name behavior that is selfish, impersonal, arrogant,...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 29, 2018:

@Deiter I agree with your comment as well as I get the cynicism behind it. Whether in dating or the political realm, I agree that power runs all of the behavior of those who have it. Still doesn't make it right or absolve them of the responsibility for the hurt they cause others. I guess I can only hope that karma pays them back because they rarely end up having to face those they wrong while in a position where those they hurt, instead of them, hold the power. In any relationship, the party with the least interest in continuing it holds all the power, at least until the other party ends it or decides to end it.I knew that even back in high school, but if I found myself in the least interested position, I did my best to end the romantic relationship as gracefully and kindly as possible, as soon as possible. The woman from college that you mention sounds like quite the narcissist.

What matters most in a potential spouse?

genessa comments on Oct 9, 2018:

i am engaged to a person who has no more money than i do, which is none. we both have health problems; we're not looking forward to a happy future. he is handsome to me but i realize he isn't handsome to the world. his alzheimer's is robbing him of his personality. charisma? ha! so why are we ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 17, 2018:

@genessa Sorry to hear that. My friends almost all live in my local area and that's the reason why I won't relocate for love even tho I would really like to have a partner again, because I need to have both a partner and some friends. Also, at my age it's hard to make a new bunch of friends if I relocated and then where would I be if I lost the relationship? Having to move back here, and I've already done enough moving to last a lifetime.

What matters most in a potential spouse?

genessa comments on Oct 9, 2018:

i am engaged to a person who has no more money than i do, which is none. we both have health problems; we're not looking forward to a happy future. he is handsome to me but i realize he isn't handsome to the world. his alzheimer's is robbing him of his personality. charisma? ha! so why are we ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 17, 2018:

@genessa Sorry to hear that. My family didn't help much, but our friends sure did. That's why I consider my friends to be my real family, which they have been for my adult life.

What matters most in a potential spouse?

genessa comments on Oct 9, 2018:

i am engaged to a person who has no more money than i do, which is none. we both have health problems; we're not looking forward to a happy future. he is handsome to me but i realize he isn't handsome to the world. his alzheimer's is robbing him of his personality. charisma? ha! so why are we ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 17, 2018:

genessa- You are so strong and kind to hang with your man. I hope you and him maybe have some friends or family who can emotionally support both of you and help out some as I know from experience that both of you are gonna need it.

What matters most in a potential spouse?

thinktwice comments on Oct 9, 2018:

Someone who won't be boring because they are always learning and engaging with others and having experiences that contribute to the relationship and conversation each day. This requires a level of intelligence for me. Looks will fade over time, but the desire for human touch, kisses, and other ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 16, 2018:

Very true.

What matters most in a potential spouse?

genessa comments on Oct 9, 2018:

i am engaged to a person who has no more money than i do, which is none. we both have health problems; we're not looking forward to a happy future. he is handsome to me but i realize he isn't handsome to the world. his alzheimer's is robbing him of his personality. charisma? ha! so why are we ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 16, 2018:

I had already been dating my wife a couple years when I learned that that dementia ran thru the women in her family-her grandmother and then her mother-but I married her anyway and we had 12 good years before the dementia hit her. She then died about five years after that, two years ago. I can't recommend it for everybody because it's a lot of suffering to experience, both theirs and yours, but I don't regret staying with the relationship. It changes you forever. I'm done grieving but I still miss her and get very discouraged that I will ever find another partner.

I'm sort of at a loss with Match.

A2Jennifer comments on Oct 14, 2018:

I had terrible luck on Match too. Was on for a year. NEVER met a person face-to-face. The few guys who expressed any interest in me were completely inappropriate, and the ones I messaged didn’t respond. And then I got charged for a renewal when I shouldn’t have been. Won’t waste any more time ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 15, 2018:

@A2Jennifer Thanks anyway, but I'm going to pass on OKCupid because I did some online research about them and they are owned by the same company as Match, plus they would have a much smaller member base than Match. I need a really big member base to find someone in my area. Plus the web articles said Cupid had no customer support at all.

I'm sort of at a loss with Match.

Maiasaura comments on Oct 14, 2018:

Tom, I would think that many of the women in your dating age range have kids that are already grown and out of the house. Are adult kids a deal-breaker, too? If so, perhaps you should specify that in your profile.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 15, 2018:

@Maiasaura At this point, I'd welcome even speculation from you, Mai.

I'm sort of at a loss with Match.

Maiasaura comments on Oct 14, 2018:

Tom, I would think that many of the women in your dating age range have kids that are already grown and out of the house. Are adult kids a deal-breaker, too? If so, perhaps you should specify that in your profile.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 15, 2018:

@Maiasaura You wouldn't. Like me, you can only speculate. Even a childless woman here on Agnostic.com would probably have limited insight to what those women are thinking because she hasn't seen my Match profile. She could only guess, based on her experience, what these women are thinking.

I'm sort of at a loss with Match.

Maiasaura comments on Oct 14, 2018:

Tom, I would think that many of the women in your dating age range have kids that are already grown and out of the house. Are adult kids a deal-breaker, too? If so, perhaps you should specify that in your profile.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 15, 2018:

@Maiasaura Problem is the childless women on Match, small number that they are, have never been willing to reply to any messages where I contact them initially to indicate interest. If they won't give me a chance, I'll spend a long time waiting.. It's been over a year and probably close to 50 opening e-mails to different childless women and not one response. What are they rejecting me on?

I'm sort of at a loss with Match.

Maiasaura comments on Oct 14, 2018:

Tom, I would think that many of the women in your dating age range have kids that are already grown and out of the house. Are adult kids a deal-breaker, too? If so, perhaps you should specify that in your profile.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 15, 2018:

@Maiasaura Your last sentence is the description of an abusive relationship which I would never want. But the problem is women are very emotional and defensive about this subject, so I think any mention of not being family-oriented or that interested in spending time with their family sets them off on assuming the worst about a man. Maybe they need some therapy or to grow up some more so they are actually hearing what is said instead of just hearing what they think or assume is being said. How do you communicate with people who hear what they assume or want to hear instead of the actual words on the screen?

I'm sort of at a loss with Match.

Maiasaura comments on Oct 14, 2018:

Tom, I would think that many of the women in your dating age range have kids that are already grown and out of the house. Are adult kids a deal-breaker, too? If so, perhaps you should specify that in your profile.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 15, 2018:

@Maiasaura I think what I really want, and wish women on Match would listen to instead of just making assumptions that distort my words, is that once I've been dating someone several months or more, that we go spend time alone as a couple-without grandkids or family around. I wouldn't care that much about the phone setting, unless it's at an entertainment event or we are alone at one of our homes watching a movie or having food together, etc. It's about the ratio of dates with just us to the number of family visits or times seeing family.

I'm sort of at a loss with Match.

Maiasaura comments on Oct 14, 2018:

Tom, I would think that many of the women in your dating age range have kids that are already grown and out of the house. Are adult kids a deal-breaker, too? If so, perhaps you should specify that in your profile.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 15, 2018:

@Maiasaura You're over-assuming about my attitude. Your earlier or first sentence sound about right. I think women are quick to assume the most extreme conclusion about my feelings on a dating site and that's what makes it so frustrating. How do you explain yourself in a dating profile in a way that is clear and reassuring enough that it doesn't instead just set off red flags and knee-jerk defensive reactions in women?

I'm sort of at a loss with Match.

A2Jennifer comments on Oct 14, 2018:

I had terrible luck on Match too. Was on for a year. NEVER met a person face-to-face. The few guys who expressed any interest in me were completely inappropriate, and the ones I messaged didn’t respond. And then I got charged for a renewal when I shouldn’t have been. Won’t waste any more time ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 15, 2018:

@A2Jennifer Thank you for the suggestion about Ok Cupid, but when I took a look at it, it seems to be run by and probably meant for people who are more your age than mine. Do you have any idea if it has a lot of people on it that are in their 50s and 60s? Otherwise it would be useless for me as my dating age range is 50-68.

I'm sort of at a loss with Match.

Maiasaura comments on Oct 14, 2018:

Tom, I would think that many of the women in your dating age range have kids that are already grown and out of the house. Are adult kids a deal-breaker, too? If so, perhaps you should specify that in your profile.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 14, 2018:

Believe me, adult kids are not a dealbreaker to me. The problem is the women in my age range seem to be still very tied up in seeing the grandkids and the adult kids in most of their free time, particularly if the woman is still working, as are many of ones in my age range such as the early to mid 60s. They just want to spend as much of their free time as family time as possible. Which makes you wonder, as I do, why they are paying good money to be on a dating site to find a guy. Unless their plan is to find only a man that will happily spend most or all of his time with her visiting her family. Apparently must be plenty of men out there who will at least say that is what they want. But I have my doubts whether they are that sincere about it. In the meantime, I guess I can sit and wait for them to try out those guys before they ever give me a chance. I say nothing specific about adult kids in my profile, just that after several months of dating-which I would take as getting serious and probably exclusive- that I would want the woman to start making couple time a priority over family time.

What is the correct story about 9/11?

242Foxtrot comments on Oct 14, 2018:

No, stop it! It's a ridiculous conspiracy theory. And don't even bother posting your "evidence". Please. But Bush, Cheney, et. al. are responsible for the false flag attack on Iraq, and look what that got us.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 14, 2018:

@Xuande See snytiger6 comment above.

What is the correct story about 9/11?

242Foxtrot comments on Oct 14, 2018:

No, stop it! It's a ridiculous conspiracy theory. And don't even bother posting your "evidence". Please. But Bush, Cheney, et. al. are responsible for the false flag attack on Iraq, and look what that got us.

TomMcGiverin replies on Oct 14, 2018:

So you have an explanation for Building 7 blowing up without being struck by a plane?