Isn't that a part of the American dream? Don't we all desire to have everyone we meet bow at our feet and want the life we have? It's so godly! LOL!!!

@IAJO163
Not the american dream that I ascribe to.

I'm so sorry. That cannot be easy, especially with children. Have an internet hug.

THIS right here. We live and try to thrive in a world that is profoundly against what it means to be human most of the time.

Very well said .. I have seen some awful comments here around suicide.

My question is "why is it a mental illness?" Why if someone wants to do something that is their right and choice considered "crazy" and not in their right mind? Who designated that we aren't allowed to be the masters of our own destinies? is it not connected to free will? Fear is what makes most afraid to make that decision and to go beyond the doctrine that's been ingrained into us is quite the show of strength. Just because some can't see themselves making that decision, they shouldn't believe that those who do need help and that they're mentally ill. Most times it's a very rational choice.

@IAJO163 the instinct of survival is the most base instinct in every living thing. For that to be ignored means there must be something inherently wrong.

@IAJO163 committing suicide isn’t like choosing whether or not to drink coffee. I don’t know why you feel the need to oversimply a complicated illness. Feel free to learn about depression and why people commit suicide. Nothing rational about it.

@Marz I struggle with depression daily. I don't think I'm mentally ill.

@IAJO163 you're getting a lot of anger but I understand what you're saying. Sometimes people aren't willing to live with a quality of life that is not what they want. Sometimes there's no way back to where someone wants to be in life and it can be a rational decision. It is still profoundly sad that anyones life reaches the point where they truthfully feel they'd rather die than "blank".

@IAJO163, @JamesBlue yes you are right. That something inherently wrong can be a quality of life that an individual is not willing to accept. In that situation it is a rational decision.

@Blindbird They said on the news that after announcing the recent suicides, the suicide prevention hotlines blew up with over 2 million calls. Is there really that many "mentally ill" people in the country? Why? Choice. Many fear death but life is different when you lose that fear.

@IAJO163 not everyone fears death. Some people fear a life that is ugly more.

@IAJO163 I agree with your point of view that often suicide is a rational choice. I believe 1000 percent in the right to die. Still when children are left behind, the abdication of responsibility is selfish.

@RDaneel That might just be a mother's point of view. If said person died in some other manner would it be less than selfish? Death abandons many children and I find it tragic, not selfish because in any instance the children have to move forward with their lives.

Empathy

I can see why you are confused...from the way you framed your response! I know something different...

@Freedompath
Differnt how ? You can take my words at face value my dear !

Perhaps because you believe that that person was valuable and made a positive contribution to the world. Perhaps because you know that there is now a child without a parent, and that dealing with a parent's suicide is a heavy burden for a child.

@val3941
I get it about personal choice.
Do you disregard the effects on the family members left to deal with the aftermath? Is that just tough cookies, get over it?
Is the price we pay for personal choices?
If help could avoid it all, isn't that a good thing?

@Marz
Do you havd t advertise that you have empathy !

@citronella
It was still his choice ! This is like an argument for or against assisted suicide ?

@CallMeDave
He could have got help, he didn't and that was his joice, not yours. Yes tough cookies, and if that is not your way write a letter offering to support them, mentally and financialy.And yes, that is the price we pay !

@VAL3941 Just asking.
And I have no joice here.

@CallMeDave
No hard feelings, that is just the way I see it !

@MrLizard
I hear what you say and appreciate your input. My comment was aimed at those who never
Invested anything in him, did not know him !

@VAL3941 I did...take your words at face value! That is the problem!

@Freedompath
I can't see a problem. Either accept it or don't !

@VAL3941 if I may explain...your words demishes the suffering of others! You explained how you feel...nothing! But, others have a different investment in people and even things! Disqualifing the feelings of other, just because they don’t match what you feel...is not even kind!

@Freedompath
You right, I feel nothing ! How can I when I have never met the man, never seen them on TV and didn't know they existed ! Yet there are people that express sorrow and sadness for someone they never knew ? To me that is just crazy ?

@MrLizard
Yes, knew " of " him, not knew him !

@VAL3941
I can understand where that posotion comes from, certainly. Life is your gift to do with what you please.
When I was young, a guy in my circle of friends/acquaintances took extreme risks and paid with his life. To say the aftermath was brutal doesn't overstate it. We were only 19.
Many lives are touched. It's a ripple effect too.

@VAL3941 ...so your position is, you ‘feel’ empathy, caring and love only for people that you know personally? Therefore when a person that you know is ‘lost’ or ‘gone’ you would feel grief over them? I do not feel the same intensity of grief for someone that I don’t know...that i feel for someone that is close to me or that I know personally! But, somehow I feel a kind of grief when anyone is hurt, lost, dies or is mistreated...even if they are on the other side of this earth! I have been like this from childhood, so it seems perfectly natural to me! So what seems natural to me, seems ‘crazy’ to you! How do you square this?

@CallMeDave
You do not know these celebs personaly, thats my point !

@CallMeDave
You knew them personaly, thats the difference ?

@MrLizard
If you know them personaly, yes they can. But celebs ??

@Freedompath
It is all in our own hands and our own choices !

@MrLizard
Thats we are all different .

Sad meaning the children and families pain. The sadness that he felt it was time to leave in his young life when so many love him.

Suicide rates are directly related to socio economic decline and the role of men in society and their perceived usefulness. When we find another system for existence it will stop but it is symptomatic of a whole. "Poor choices" is very badly put and perceived.. I can honestly explain quite logically how people come to suicide.. I have worked with people with mental illness and it isn't arguably a choice at all but the product of an unsupportive environment. Often people perceived as very able or successful are more likely a suicide risk as people around them perceive them as not needing help. This is a failing we all have as we judge others on wealth and success not happiness.. Proof of that? Recently a study was done in London where a homeless smelly unwashed guy falls to the floor simulating a heart failure.. Nobody stops to help him .. A successful well groomed guy in a suit does the same thing .. lots of people instantly rushed to help.. It's just perceptions .. in this case people perceive the homeless guy as lesser as he has less outward wealth. In the same way we judge those who are successful / socially able or communicative as low suicide risk as they "have everything" ... as we all know though this means nothing. Poor choices shows a very limited understanding of this whole subject .. the best thing you could do before commenting is spend some time with suicidal people.. Work with them. Help them. Understand them. Then comments like yours above will dissolve with your understanding .. with respect.

Your comment is based on assumptions and suppositions .. not experience of suicidal people. It is not a choice in their heads when they do it. This is probably the foremost and most important point in helping people avoid suicide. Take this comment on board you might save someones life one day

Poor choices? Are you asking them to follow your line of thought? We live in a society where people are already in a tough state of mind and we further it by labeling them "mentally ill" as if we're telling them to "get with the picture" or move on yet we discourage them moving on. What up with that?

@Nickbeee Hi Nick. Thank for your response. This is an important subject.

I can’t imagine that you will be able to persuade me that my use of “poor choices” to characterize decisions to commit suicide reflects my limited understanding of the problem. I don’t say that “poor choices” is the sum total of a powerful psychological tool to prevent suicide, but it’s a good place to start

The decision to commit suicide, like any other self destructive decision, is by definition a poor one. Mistifying it by surrounding it with all the social significance that your approach would pile on it would seem to increase its appeal, not to detract from it. I think that in AB’s case “social significance” might have been a factor, even though I don’t have the faintest idea of what might have been happening in his life. Need I remind you of the signal position that ritual suicide has or had in many cultures? In Japan seppuku or “hara-kiri” was sanctioned by the warrior class as a way to expiate a mistake. In much of Asia Buddhist monks have immolated themselves publicly by setting themselves on fire. In many military organizations military personnel were often given the option to put a bullet in their heads as way to avoid court martial and dishonor.

I firmly believe that if I want to help people avoid suicide, I should start and end the conversation around the notion of poor choices. Let me give you a sophomoric illustration: i grew up in Cuba. Over there, people lack “the nicer things of life.” You can’t buy a a bathrobe anywhere. If there is a bathrobe on Cuba, it probably doesn’t have a belt. Therefore, the farthest thing from the mind of any standard Cuban who receives a belted bathrobe is to use the belt to commit suicide. I think successful suicide interventions should highlight the absurdity of suicide, the poverty of the choice.

In our culture we’re experiencing a lot of pressure to succeed. It’s not easy to put two cars in the driveway and keep them there, and to keep and maintain a house with a white picket fence in the suburbs. There is a lot of blather, blaming, and bullshit out there that seeks to depict everything as unfair and our place in the world as the pits. When we couple that with the availability of more or less objectionable mind-altering substances, the lure of committing suicide may indeed become irresistible.

For this reason I want to make suicide easy to resist. And “poor choice” looks like a solid and easy to digest response whenever the normative aspects of suicide come up for discussion. And I accept that there is a place in this discussion for healthcare proxies, healthcare directives, and durable powers of attorney.

@IAJO163 Hello there. The fact is that I probably don’t know one person happy with the state of the world. Problems abound. I’m not advocating denying this reality. But I’m advocating that suicide should be shown to be a poor,choice when it comes to dealing with problems. This advocacy should be persistent and pervasive. This exchange of messages in which we’re engaged is an instance of the type of advocacy that I have in mind. I would hope that if I ever contemplate committing suicide, I won’t go through with it after deeming it a poor choice.

Some people, however, are beyond the reach of common sense. These are the folks who are deemed to be a danger to themselves or or others and committed by a judge to a certain doctor-recommended care. I agree in principle with this strategy to confront and defuse individual health crisis.

@IAJO163 Hello there. The fact is that I probably don’t know one person happy with the state of the world. Problems abound. I’m not advocating denying this reality. But I’m advocating that suicide should be shown to be a poor choice when it comes to dealing with problems. This advocacy should be persistent and pervasive. This exchange of messages in which we’re engaged is an instance of the type of advocacy that I have in mind. I would hope that if I ever contemplate committing suicide, I won’t go through with it after deeming it a poor choice.

Some people, however, are beyond the reach of common sense. These are the folks who are deemed to be a danger to themselves or or others and committed by a judge to a certain doctor-recommended care. I agree in principle with this strategy to confront and defuse individual health crisis.

@ArturoS You know some feel that choosing atheism is a "poor choice" yet we continue on with it in spite of the consequences. let's remove the labels and find a way for people to find the strength and a reason to continue on. I reach for a reason daily.

@IAJO163 I would welcome a debate where I get to defend the benefits of atheism over the benefits of suicide. If I can’t persuade most people that suicide is a poor choice when compared to atheism then there is something wrong in the drinking water distributed to the audience. What’s wrong with saying that suicide is a poor choice? How can you dissuade people from doing something unless you come out against it and at the same time provide an opening for people to air out their issues?

Firstly, I don't know them personally. However, it is impossible for us to know and callous for us to say that they cared more about their feelings than their loved ones. Depression does not conform to human logic or rationality. When you're in the middle of it, you actually think you're doing others you love a much needed service by not being around and continuing to be a burden to them.

True depression isn't being dramatic. You actually feel helpless, constantly alternating between heavy pain and numbness, and full of anguish knowing you're taking your family and friends through hell and that they'll be better off if you weren't around.

I don't think you truly understand severe depression.

@AdorkableMe You are mistaken. I've been depressed my whole life. We have a responsibility to other people, and need to fulfill our responsibilities. Perhaps you don't understand personal responsibility?

@Mofferatu Nonsense. I've been depressed too. A parent with minor children needs to feel that their responsibility is more important than any pain. The "me" generation thinks only of themselves. It is a social disease.

@doug6352 yes, that must be it. I just have no concept of personal responsibility.