Lucifer vs God
I posted recently about going to church and what a waste of time that was.
I have however continued to have coffee with Brian the street preacher.
Fascinating guy. Always proclaiming, even one and one.
One of the recurring claims is that God is all forgiving, and Jesus has already paid the debt of my soul that day on the cross (which I find amusing, because if so he had no idea what the bill would be).
So, I posed a counterfactual - if God is all forgiving, what would happen if Lucifer repented and asked for forgiveness?
The answer was a flat out no. I asked why. Apparently it's because Lucifer looked God in the face and, in his arrogance, thought he was better than God. And hence Lucifer was cast out for all eternity. No redemption for Luce, nosireebob.
Which posed the proposition - this God of which we speak is not all forgiving. I would go further and suggest this alleged deity has a thin skin and a glass jaw. And if God will never forgive Lucifer, who else is on that list?
Thoughts?
4
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7 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.There's apparently a heretical Muslim interpretation of Satan as God's most devoted worshiper. The angels were commanded first to kneel to none but God. Then after man was created, they were told to kneel before Man. Satan refused; his love for God would not allow him to kneel to anyone else. So Satan is cast out, still as God's greatest worshiper.
In this interpretation, all that sustains Satan in Hell is the memory of his beloved God's voice saying "Begone!"
(I don't know this firsthand, I heard it in a Joseph Campbell lecture. But I trusted Joe to have done the reading.)
Paul4747
Level 8
June 22, 2018
1
Interesting. I find that interpretation even more chilling.
@Palindromeman I may be remembering this wrong, but I got the impression that God, in this version, actually regrets exiling Satan. He's in the position of a commander who can't tolerate insubordination, even from one he loves.
@Paul4747 Then that deity is a douchebag.
@Palindromeman Well, yeah
In my reading of the the Bible Lucifer is a much better character than Yahweh.
gsiamne
Level 8
June 19, 2018
2
I figure he's a cool and misunderstood guy. Lucifer in my written fiction has a completely kick ass daughter and spends his off time recovering artwork stolen by the Nazis.
All angels are not on the list. Jesus died to save man, not angels.
But it's a moot point as it's all just fiction anyhow.
arnies
Level 7
June 19, 2018
3
They are a complicated family, to say the least. The Old Man aka God, archangels, angels, demons and then the rest of us. That is not a company I want to sign on to.
I'm sick of religion. That's my thoughts.
I'm just sick of it.
Ellatynemouth
Level 8
June 19, 2018
3
Awwww, c'mon - humanity needs reasons for us to kill each other. Religion is a great one.
There's tons of other stuff too. It's all here, dressed up as atheism: misogyny, Islamaphobia, racism, homophobia.
I need a cup of tea.
@Ellatynemouth I'm enjoying my Ardberg single malt whiskey, but I know what you are saying.
Seems like you caught Brian the street preacher in an inconsistency. Of course, he might not have stated his original position carefully enough so you might want to give him a chance to revise it in the interest of fair play. On the other hand, many Christians do not accept his theology to begin with. For example, "the unpardonable sin" was a big deal in the tradition I was reared in and he is denying that there is such a thing (if I understand you).
Wallace
Level 7
June 18, 2018
3
Ugh. It is a mass of contradictions (pun intended). There is always the get out of jail free card "the lord moves in mysterious ways." That is such a cop out, seriously.
It’s hard to discuss any holy book. There is just flat no evidence for a god or gods.
Mikeb56
Level 7
June 18, 2018
1
Indeed!
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