My parents still believe i am as christian as i was when i was in the private elementary school they spent so much money to send me to. On a drive back to college, my dad made a remark about how stupid he thinks people are as soon as he finds out they don't believe god exists. Obviously this was meant to be funny since he thinks we are all on the same page when it comes to religion. He didnt know that he was calling his son stupid right to his face.
12
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.You'll get better at dealing with your parents as time goes by. If you do ever admit to your non belief, just ask them to pray for you. If God is real and merciful, he will answer their prayer to make you see the light. If it doesn't happen, they can blame their god, not you.
Athena
Level 8
June 21, 2018
9
Well said.
Your comment got a lot shorter. What happened?
Rational...
But the typical comeback for unanswered prayers is “god’s plan”!
Religion is designed so that NOTHING will change your mind... ?❗️
I think it is natural for "believers" (who tend to see the handiwork of God in the intricate beauties of the natural world) to think that atheists and agnostics are not seeing the big picture. I wouldn't be so hard on your father. He didn't knowingly attack you, and from his world view his position (that atheists and agnostics are ignorant) makes sense. It seems unlikely that you will change his world view. If you ever hope to change his position on atheists and agnostics, you will have to demonstrate respect for his world view whether or not you agree with it.
GarytheGondolier
Level 6
June 21, 2018
6
His father did not say A-theist are ignorant, he said they are stupid. There is a difference.
obviously that expensive private education made you a critical thinker. Well done
MsDemeanour
Level 8
June 21, 2018
5
or you were too smart to absorbed into the death cult
This is the micro aggressions atheists face on a daily basis.
You are your own person. Your parents should respect you.
Ellatynemouth
Level 8
June 21, 2018
2
As a parent, I think it’s easy to look at your post HS kids as children, since the parents are still paying their way through life.
I think he’d get and deserve a full dose of respect once he pays for himself!
Even then, the parents have enabled his independence.
His parents know him from when he was an incompetent, helpless, dependent child.
I think they have a right to expect that he do enough and even a little more to earn the full measure of respect an adult deserves...
The parents should pay their child's way in life - since the child didn't ask to be born.
I totally disagree with your comment. A child has a human right not be indoctrinated.
Children gradually GROW into deserving the same respect and consideration of an adult, like it or not.
You don’t give in to EVERY demand and consideration of a baby or child. And even though you MAY hear their concerns (or may not!), many times you simply have to lay down the law that they must adhere to - with a good attitude too!
Of course you would give your teen children gradually even more say-so.
But yes, you are still “my child” if I am paying for your education and sustenance!
Children just don’t rate the same respect as adults!!
Your CHILDREN deserve the respect of an adult when they become adults ?❗️
I once was at dinner with a "friend" (daughter, daughter's boyfriend and his mother). The mother was going on and on about how people on disability are just lazy and should either be forced to work or starve. I just looked at her and told her that it was refreshing to be having dinner with someone who believes I should be dead. Apparently she did not realize that I was on disability.
It was fun watching her stumble over her words for the rest of the evening.
You do what you feel is right. For me, I'm too old to be the one who has to watch what I say. Parents are suppose to love their children unconditionally. It's a shame when they can't do that.
kiramea
Level 7
June 21, 2018
4
This was a story from awhile ago. I already have learned that its better not to say anything. My siblings are non believers as well and we agreed that saying anything would disrupt the family dynamic too much. Im over the "anger" and wanting to prove them wrong stuff. Would rather have them not find out unless they have to (ex. Forcing my kid to go to church or telling them god is real). I think coming out randomly at this point is a waste of time and effort and will do more damage than anything else. I hope this isnt true, but i wouldnt be surprised if my family would think less of me or my siblings if they found out.
Jab723
Level 3
June 21, 2018
2
@GabrielM i really hope this could happen but my parents are more on the insane side lol. So i don't have high hopes. Im looking forward to hanging out with cousins and siblings when we are older and all of the crazies arent around anymore to spoil the fun. As bad as that sounds its the truth
You know, it sounds like even if you TOLD THEM they wouldn’t believe it!
It was a loong time b4 my parents realized I had HAD IT with Xmas, church and all the rest, even though I hid nothing from them and was quite vocal about it all - from leaving “white Xianity”, thru Buddhism to raw anti-religious atheism!
They said I was “in search of myself”... ?❗️
Ask him "Have you ever tried to define God?"
He will respond with a series of attempts; Creator, designer, Jesus, Spirit, and so forth, none of which actually define God.
Eventually he will admit we are flawed vessels and cannot know the truth of God as mere humans.
Then ask by what right do we determine that others are wrong in not believing when we cannot ourselves show any evidence of what we believe?
In this way you can lead him to the same pond you drank from without telling him you drank from it BEFORE you tell him that is why you do not believe, because you don't know what it is you are to believe in beyond the assertions of other men.
Davesnothere
Level 7
June 21, 2018
4
If you say something like “define god”, or ask any challenging questions, they’ll know you haven’t been drinking the Kool-aid !!
@Ungod tHAT IS WHY YOU ASK "HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO DEFINE gOD? Not "Define God" If you ask that and they say no, or begin to explain the door is cracked without defense because it is not phrased in a way which might feel offensive, or require a believer to defend their belief.
IF you phrase that initial question inside the belief system you came out of (or are working inside to communicate) then you take care to ask "How do you define God?" What is God to you? and so forth
IF this is also a person you know well personally you can create an inroad. Use a film with a scene to breach the topic, and then casually ask "what do you think of this?" (or that)
IN SE the idea is the same as the Socratic, get the peron to think about their own belief deeply, to consoder it. Not to confront, not to challange, but to cause them to think deeply.
THAT oft results in critical thought, and it is critical thought which cracks the door of faith to the light of reason.
@Davesnothere I recognize you want to defend your position, but the fact is, those kinds of questions, “any challenging questions” as I mentioned earlier, will easily clue an intelligent person you’re no longer going for the okey-doke❗️
This is because the BUY-BULL has already defined these things!
The only “proper” and safe such questioning is, “how does the buy-bull define god?”. Once you go further, these types of goddites typically perceive you to be wandering.
Especially if you’re their newly freed teen child, just back from exposure to “the world” in vastly liberating (liberal!) surroundings!
Once you “stray” from buy-bull teachings, you are on the road to hell...
Plus, get real... He’s not gonna trick his father❗️
@Ungod Actually no, the Bible does not define God
NOR am I asking him to TRICK his Father.
What I am suggesting is SE
Street Epistomology.
Using that he asks his father about his fathers beliefs and why he holds those beliefs, why he believes what he believes.
IF that cycles back around to the Bible, then the question becomes why do you see the bible as an ultimate authority (Jig is up then for sure in a Fundie family)
But not neccessarily in many other conversations.
I have had entire conversations with people without ever bothering to mention that I don't believe, because they assume belief, and since I was also raised in that fashion, I also speak bible, so I can phrase a question to the person inside the religion speak.
It is not only possible, it is effective.
@Davesnothere
The Bible gives thorough descriptions of god.
You don’t know the father or his son.
Everyone is not the same.
You have no idea how the father will react.
Give it up!
@Ungod I do not know, but he does.
He could pick a situation conducive to conversation.
He could then have a question prepared.
He could then ask it then, in a calm and utterly unhostile fashion.
and have a decent chance of cracking that door.
BUT, as you said I don't know his Dad, HE DOES.
Should I not tell him of what might be a chance, because it might not be, when really only he can decide that?
@Davesnothere Give it up...
Deal with YOUR issues and people YOU know.
You will ALWAYS fail when you try to give advice to people you don’t even know, on how they should talk with each other...
?
@Ungod It is not relevent whether I am successful or not
It is not my problem, it is the posters problem.
I already said I do not know the man, hence would not be able to construct as viable a conversation as the poster could.
I think your perspective is SKEWED.
The poster feels ill at ease and deceptive with his own parents, they do things like try to include him on iside jokes he no longer finds humorous.
He feels as if his Father is calling him stupid to his face unwittingly.
It seems kind of obvious he would rather things were otherwise.
YOU seem quite content to let him sit and suffer, take no action, perhaps worse, be disowned from loved one, and just give up. You make YOUR attitude apparent when you tell me NOT to give a simple suggestion, which they are free to accept or refuse, consider or not.
Won't affect me at all.
YOU, on the other hand seem to want him to fail in any attempt to communicate with his own family.
Now why would your words seem to desire that?
Perhaps you hold a cognitive bias that Fundamentalists cannot have Atheist kids with whom they do have functional relationships?
That is False, ask Matt Dillahunty and many others. It might not be perfect, they still might want to save your soul and so forth, but if you plan and structure that conversation it can be done without resulting in total destruction DEPENDING ON THE FAMILY
Which only the poster can decide as he knows them.
You strike me as a pessimist and a person with a negative and skewed world view.
I hope you feel better.
@Davesnothere
Now personal attacks?
The final gambit of a lost cause argument!
Yeah, you are THE PERSON to give advice on how to talk to people... ???
@Ungod No personal attack, just an observation.
The poster was free to ignore, reply, think I am full of shit or whatever,.
Your psychology drove you to create this thread, to naysay any chance he might have.
Now why might that be?
@Davesnothere
Now I started this thread?
You must not read very well - and you wanna tell people how to communicate 
And YOU are giving advice on how two people YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW should talk... ABOUT GOD!?❗️
Your argument is GARBAGE...
But I am betting you just can’t shut up about it so...
Post your next pointless comment please ?❗️
@Ungod Yes, YOU started this side thread.
I commented to the young man with family issues regarding his Agnostticism/Atheism
YOU somehow took some personal offense that I made a suggestion the op author was free to ignore.
In that response you took issue with my remarks, and have ever since, adamant that there is no point in trying to communicate because it is bound to fail.
"And YOU are giving advice on how two people YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW should talk... ABOUT GOD!"
So?
Is it some Taboo to suggest ideas?
At least I attempted to give some counsel, to give some comfort or hope to a young person who Father had just said to him stupid.
He said "how stupid he thinks people are as soon as he finds out they don't believe god exists. Obviously this was meant to be funny since he thinks we are all on the same page when it comes to religion. He didnt know that he was calling his son stupid right to his face."
Your respose is to call his Father "Stoopid", and you want to fault me for attempting to console this youth?
Try reading . . .
[amazon.com]
@Davesnothere YOU started the thread Batman, and now YOU won’t SHADDUP about it!!
@Ungod Wow, your still on this?
the thread was started by the OP
Jab 723
I responded to that.
You then responded to my response--that constitutes a sub thread
So this conversation, is your sub thread
Your response to my response to Jab723
Everything that could be or needed to be said on that thread was said.
@Davesnothere YOU are the one that can't shut up about it... I just keep baiting you and you never fail to go for it!
Colleges, and universities have a bad rep, for pushing a liberal agenda. My advice is to not say anything about being Atheist, until you're out of school. Otherwise, he's liable to blame the school, and regret that you're attending.
Sedalien
Level 4
June 21, 2018
3
Interesting point.
At some point you are going to have to be honest with him. Maybe by asking if he really thinks all atheists are stupid, inc. professors?
A long time ago my brother was giving his kids extra pocket money not to smoke. He smoked himself and I knew they smoked behind his back. I pointed out that he was just giving them reasons to lie and if he really wanted them not to smoke. He would stop smoking as an example. This he found too hard to do but he did stop being a hypocrite and let them smoke in front of him. In the end none of them smoke now but they do have a great relationship with him.
Sit down with your dad and ask him how much he values honesty, how much he loves you and how much he trusts you to make your own decisions? The relief that your not coming out as gay might go a long way to heal the rift
273kelvin
Level 8
June 21, 2018
2
My dad frequently tries to tell me I'm still and always will be mormon, that's how stupid those mormons are. They also do baptisms for the dead. What arrogance, a lot of those people they are baptising probably didn't want baptism when they were alive, thus why they didn't get baptised. Seems to me, the ultra religious are the dumb ones.
AudrinAlexander
Level 3
June 21, 2018
3
Moose-Slimes say you are Moose-Slime from birth...
Baptizing the dead seems like religious final one upmanship!
Some faiths have a Get Out Of Hell Free clause where someone can put in a prayer for your retroactive salvation...
There’s just no escape!
No child asked his parents to bring them into this world. And seeing to your education is one of their basic respo sibilities. For them to send you to an institution to be brainwashed reflects on their inhumanity and inability to form human connection with their own child. You don't owe your parents shit.. you never belonged to them, as you are human, not property. Good luck facing their rejection when you tell them you are part of humanity, not a cult. Best to tell them to fuck off
ronodokk
Level 5
June 21, 2018
2
Like how smart to believe in something with no proof just because it was forced on them from birth
benhmiller
Level 7
June 21, 2018
1
We really gotta divorce intelligence from the argument.
Of course THEISM is stupid, but Curt Wise is an extremely intelligent, Harvard educated PHD holding YE creationist..
So is racism, and Dr Schockley - transistor inventor was an intelligent racist.
Dr Sam Harris pointed out how most physicist specialists have a very narrow range of knowledgeable expertise.
Most of us are like this and always go to someone else for the majority of what we need done in our lives...
Specialized knowledge is a facet of our hi-tech society and many geniuses are ignorant of some very basic things everyone else generally knows about.
And I know of those far smarter than I who are goddites!
Still it’s VERY HARD not to look at someone as STOOPID who basically believes in SANTA CLAUSE❗️?❗️
Ungod
Level 6
June 23, 2018
0
The parents of today must recognize that society has evolved to the point that our children will go their own way depending upon the knowledge and wisdom they have obtained. Many who have been sent to religious schools have seen the light and what a farce the religious thing really is. The same applies to dating the more a parent objects to the one their child is dating the stronger becomes the bond between those two, same for smoking,drugs, being lazy and a host of other things. The parent has a difficult duty to conduct in raising a child. My children are great ,honest,well balanced atheists. I am lucky.
Marine
Level 8
June 21, 2018
0
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