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So after reading some comments on an FB post, I became very curious. I hope to keep this post relatively mature as it is of a personal nature. I have a few different questions/comments to present...

  1. As someone who plans to adopt and potentially have her own, something I never realized I may need to consider is if I'll have a son circumcised. What is your opinion and why? Please don't be too graphic, I am a LADY?. Parents, I'm most interested in hearing how you made your decisions with your own sons.

  2. Do you think that majority of those that have been circumcised was due to religious reasons or just the assumed norm?

  3. I hate when women push their beliefs on this topic, while also ask men to stay out of decision-making when it comes to women's reproductive rights. Have your opinion, sure. Please don't ever argue against a Male on this topic though. Agree? Disagree?

Kassandra 6 June 29
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96 comments (76 - 96)

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Male. Once again men can discuss and judge but not women? Women have as much right to question and discuss this as men. I believe women have the right to abortion. I do not believe women should have their clitoris cut off and genitals mutilated as done in some countries. I am circumcised, had my sons circumcised due to social norms. I did work for a few years in an orphanage in France where circumcision is NOT the norm. I had to make sure the little boys pulled the foreskin back and clean the head of the penis. I have seen where this was not done regularly and it got infected and VERY painful, lots of screaming and crying. It is easier to cleaner but I am against it as I truly believe it is a great trauma to a baby boy and bloody and painful. On some level I think it creates a sub conscious feeling of inadequacy, shame and who knows what mental agitation. In Canada it is no longer covered under the government sponsored medical health plan. It is considered an optional cosmetic surgery that must be paid for out of pocket. I believe it should be illegal.

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Genital mutilation is barbaric.

It was done for religious reasons initially and then done as an anti-masturbation measure later, and now done out of tradition or aesthetics... sick fuckers...

People can have whatever opinions that they want regardless of gender. As long as we don't deny the facts, I'm comfortable with a woman having her opinion on the matter. I would encourage women to listen though as there are issues that are particular to men involved, but don't feel like you can't say what you think. That's how we learn and question our assumptions.

agreed!...it dampens the sexual experience, period...that was their goal...and hell, some of us don't have an inch or two to just throw away! ha

@IamBane I relate too well to what was just typed, sir!

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I personally was not circumcised and believe it is a brutal practice that should not be done. I mean you wouldn't chop off the end of a kids finger right?

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  1. I hate when women push their beliefs on this topic, while also ask men to stay out of decision-making when it comes to women's reproductive rights. Have your opinion, sure. Please don't ever argue against a Male on this topic though. Agree? Disagree?

Disagree. We're all thinking moral agents.

Maybe the arguments of those in the group who "own the same equipment" should be considered more carefully, but I don't think it invalidates non-owners' thoughts.

I'm not sure I'm 100% consistent on this, though, since e.g. in the case of circumcision, a woman advocating against infant/child circumcision is advocating on behalf of the child and his right to choose what happens to his own body. Whereas a woman arguing for it is advocating to cut off a part of someone else's genitals, of which she doesn't even have first-person experience...

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A good argument for circumcision is reduction in STD transmission.

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I have 2 biologically male kids and neither of them are circumcized. I just didn't see a reason for it. Why put them through it when any positives are either not firmly established or just marginal? My wife wanted them to be circumcized because she was scared they would feel "different" - but I disagreed just because it's not something that ever comes up with guys (no pun intended). I am circumcized but my mom said it was just the norm back then and she wouldn't do it now.

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  1. While I don't believe it's necessary, I think this is a decision you'll have to make yourself. Yes, it's not your body, but you'll make many decisions about your son's body until he can do it for himself.

  2. Not sure my opinion is pertinent, but my mother said it was just standard procedure in the 60's.

  3. I think it's fine for anyone to have an opinion, but ultimately it's the individual's choice.

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My parents circumcized me for the sake of societal norms and hygenic issues (though neither of them knew much on the matter, I later realized). If I were to have a son I would prefer not to have them shipped but let them make that choice for themselves as teens or young adults. I think, given a choice, I would not have chosen to have it done to myself. The members become less sensitive and I think there is a hightened level of pleasure I will never experience simply because a choice was made on my behalf by people who just saw it as "normal."

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As a uncircumcised male, I can assure you that circumcision is the way to go. As one ages the immune system declines and infections become more common. Since this area is generally more "humid" it is an invitation for infection. Circumcision eliminates an environment which promotes infection. Infection in this area is not pleasant.

Try the one shot tablet for thrush / candida. The infection gets under the skin so creams etc. really do not work too well. Also up the hygiene, stay away from shitty women or men depending on your proclivities and keep it oiled - coconut oil seems to work quite well.

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@GoldenDoll, @Simon1, @BagelPants, @Hihi, @OroLee: By the way, the information that I've posted are not my arguments, I'm simply disseminating research carried out by others. I wanted knowledge, I did some research. It's not hard to do. The alternative is...ignorance.

Yawn.

Have you actually said who funded the research and for what purpose? Further more is it supported independently?
Attn: @GoldenDoll, @Simon1, @BagelPants, @Hihi, @OroLee

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This says it well...

Seriously? A little about adam conover, wiki: '...describe himself as "the only member of the family without a Ph.D."[5] In 2000, he graduated from Shoreham-Wading River High School, where he first became interested in the performing arts.[6] He then attended Bard College, where, in 2002, he became an active member of the sketch comedy group Olde English.[7] In 2004,[8] he earned a Bachelor's degree in philosophy from Bard College.[3]'

@OroLee it sounded like she was going to say something attacking him, but then just mentioned his schooling. I'm confused. Why is his training important? He is part of a production and, independent of that, the validity of is argument seems intact. Why does information about him in particular have relevance?

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I had it done at 5 or 6 due to infections in that area. If the father has it, the son should have it so they “look” the same.

Having you penis look like your fathers penis makes about as much sense and forcing your son to get the same haircut and wear the same cloths all his life. Except for the fact that hopefully the majority of people will not see both penises so really the "look" the same argument is pretty silly. I don't really remember seeing my fathers penis, I'm sure I have and I know he is circumcised but I don't know it from seeing it.

Well that's the most ridiculous reason I've heard so far. What if you son doesn't want to look the same as you???

@Storybook you have a penis?

@Storybook - do you have a penis?

@Storybook, @GoldenDoll - do you have a penis? And you have as much right to judge as a man has to judge a woman about her body?

@ThomasLevi - it was a conscious decision based upon my past medical history and that isn’t rediculous. The nice thing about choices and decisions and opinions - everyone has the right to make them.

@Storybook - I don’t get offended on social media, or towards to many things in the real world for that matter. I choose not to let people’s opinions offend me; only use it as input for decision making if I respect that individual and ask for their opinion on the matter.

@CalvinJoe Having a circumcision because an infection or even if you think it will prevent something is perfectly rational. Having one because you want your penis to look like your fathers I hope you can understand sound a bit weird.
Now most fathers will have their baby boys get circumcised for that reason but if he had decided at 5 or 6 to take you for a circumcision so your penis would look like his, that would be weird. IMO of course.

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One way of approaching your question is to go with established medical science. Pubmed.org is the single recognized data base for all juried medical research.
Simply enter circumsision

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My past foster kids (brothers) were one yes and one no; not sure why their parents did it that way, and of course they're not around to ask. But the uncirced one was really stressed out about being "odd"; I tried to reassure him it was becoming more common nowadays.

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No. it is a barbaric practice and totally unnecessary apart from a few cases. It is not so common in the UK apart from religious reasons but seems to be common practice in the USA. Probably just a habit but the medical profession should counsel against it.. With privatised health care it probably makes them some money.
Normal hygiene is all that is required for health reasons.

My sons have not been circumcised

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I was put up for adoption, but was cut b/c back in the early 70's. From what I understand it was deemed healthier to do so b/c of cleaning the area. Now, I think that is debunked, at least to the extent that it isn't as much of a health issues as it was originally made out to be. I myself disagree with the practice. It is barbaric and misandric IMO, and stopping this practice (I hope) will be a step towards recognizing men's rights and issues.

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I had my son circumcised. Back then I still prayed to God. However, it had nothing to do with religion. Most men have been circumcised therefore most women are used to seeing a circumcised unit. I didn't want son to be different to the point he was self conscious about it. Also, the flap can get infected if the person doesn't clean it right. And all my daughter's ears were pierced when they were young. I wasn't a big fan of that because the pain, but that was y ex wife's call.

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As a circumcised male, I would circumcise my son(s). Obviously not for religious reasons, but for better hygiene and acceptance. I don’t know from experience, but I’ve learned that non-circumcised males, if lazy (as young boys and even grown men can be), can get infections and odors. The acceptance part is, that I’ve known some women that are just grossed out by the extra skin of non-circumcised males and said they would never date a guy for that reason. There’s so many other disqualifiers that are possibile, that I don’t want to subject my son(s) to another one that could’ve been done early on and without memory. I can’t imagine having the procedure done as “my choice” when I became of age and wanted it done. The pain, the memory, and the downtime would suck.

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@GoldenDoll, @Simon1, @BagelPants, @Hihi @OroLee:
Because there are a few of you too lazy to even open the source I offered, here are just a few of the highlights:
[circinfo.net]
"CIRCUMCISION:
An Evidence-Based Appraisal
MEDICAL, HEALTH & SEXUAL
It is the intention of the present overview to provide easily-accessible, reliable, balanced information that should be of assistance to parents, medical professionals, scholars, as well as men and their sexual partners. The author is a professor emeritus in the medical faculty of the University of Sydney. He has over 46 years of scientific research experience and more than 400 research publications, including over 100 on circumcision, mostly in peer-reviewed international journals. As such he is often invited by journals, book publishers, professional organizations and the news media for his comments or other contributions.

© Professor Emeritus Brian Morris.

Circumcision - Benefits Outweigh the Risks

Dr Tom Wiswell, a respected authority in the USA was a strong opponent, but then switched camps as a result of his own research findings and the findings of others. This is what he has to say: "As a pediatrician and neonatologist, I am a child advocate and try to do what is best for children. For many years I was an outspoken opponent of circumcision ... I have gradually changed my opinion" [Wiswell, 1988; Wiswell, 1992]. This ability to keep an open mind on the issue and to make a sound judgement on the balance of all available information is to his credit ... he did change his mind!

Wiswell looked at the complication rates of having or not having circumcision performed in a study of 136,000 boys born in US army hospitals between 1980 and 1985. 100,000 were circumcised and 193 (0.19%) had complications, mostly minor, with no deaths, but of the 36,000 who were not circumcised the problems were more than ten-times higher and there were 2 deaths [Wiswell & Hachey, 1993].

A study by others found that of the 11,000 circumcisions performed at New York's Sloane Hospital in 1989, only 6 led to complications, none of which were fatal [Russell, 1993]. An early survey saw only one death amongst 566,483 baby boys circumcised in New York between 1939 and 1951 [National, 2003].

There are no deaths today from medical circumcisions in developed countries.

Very similar to the study by Wiswell above, it was found that of 354,297 infants born in Washington State from 1987-96, only 0.20% had a complication arising from their circumcision, i.e., 1 in every 476 circumcisions [Christakis et al., 2000]. Most of these ‘complications’ were minor and readily treated. It was concluded that 6 urinary tract infections could be prevented for every circumcision complication, and 2 complications can be expected for every penile cancer prevented [Christakis et al., 2000].

Problems involving the penis are encountered relatively frequently in pediatric practice [Langer & Coplen, 1998]. A retrospective study of boys aged 4 months to 12 years found uncircumcised boys exhibited significantly greater frequency of penile problems (14% vs 6%; P < 0.001) and medical visits for penile problems (10% vs 5%; P < 0.05) compared with those who were circumcised.

Risk-benefit analyses

To ascertain how much the benefits exceed the risks various risk-benefit analyses have been conducted over the years. With time, and increased high-quality evidence, the benefits to risk ratio has increased from 1 in 100 to 1 in 200 [Morris et al. 2006; Morris 2007; Morris et al. 2012 (BMC Pediatr & Open J Prevent Med), 2014 (Mayo Clin Proc), 2016 (Can J Urol), 2017 (World J Clin Pediatr)]."

The studies quoted on that one site are all over 40 years old and not even done on a large scale . You only quote from this one site which is pro- circumcision which is cognitive dissonance at its finest !!!!

@Simon1 - I think I love you! Got her right in the short & crazycurlies.

Maybe we should remove our children's teeth, you know, to prevent future tooth decay, or the need for braces, or yellowing.

Reading through that again how the hell does someone die from not having the top of his dick cut off that's just made up rubbish. Also claiming it protects someone from hiv ridiculous an errect penis is exactly the same whether it's circumsised or not . Whatever Dr claims otherwise needs his license revoked !!!

@Simon1 He's a reputable doctor. You lack understanding about the differences between evidence-based research v opinion pieces.

@crazycurlz he may be a reputable Dr in cardiovascular work but that doesn't stop him misleading others in other fields

@Simon1 And @crazycurlz.
Here is what Morris's head of department at Sydney university had to say about the paper that you reference:
"Morris believes that there is "'overwhelming' evidence to support male circumcision," and that although he does not believe that all males should undergo the procedure, Morris feels it should be in the same category as immunization.[5] He has criticised the circumcision policy[6] of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians, which he says is "not evidence-based and should be retracted,"[7] however his comments were rejected by the RACP. Morris has criticized anti-circumcision activists for what he says is the "cult-like devotion" they exhibit to their cause.[8] Morris wrote the 1999 book In Favour of Circumcision; Basil Donovan, Director of the Sydney Sexual Health Centre and a Clinical Professor in the School of Public Health and Community Medicine at the same university at which Morris was employed, the University of Sydney, criticised the book as "dangerous" and "a serious disservice to parents."[9] Other experts are also forthright in their criticism of Morris over circumcision."

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It's always fascinating to read the comments about circumcision. There's a lot of anti-circumcision myth floating around that gets picked up and spewed out with ease by people who have an agenda. It's one thing to have opinions, even if steeped in ignorance. Its another thing altogether to take your opinions and turn them into alternative facts. A lot of posters are guilty of that, equating it to female genital mutilation (shame on you, you do a discredit to the females that suffer this abuse), saying it cuts back on sensation during sex (when's the last time you really took the time to enjoy your partner and think about what your own enjoyment...it ain't about the foreskin), calling it child abuse (it's a legal, often go-to medical procedure) and the people that claim to be medical people in our midst that pass around gossipy stories are just pathetic. Learn your sources, people. As I said in my earliest post, it's likely that some very keen observers way back in Ancient times realized that pathogens often accumulate in bodily folds and can lead to infection and skin breakdown. From that bit of knowledge they worked out that Mother Nature in all her wisdom and glory added extra tissue that was non-essential and could be removed without harm to the penis functioning and aesthetics (exactly OPPOSITE to female genital mutilation. This is just one of many posts with evidence based information supporting circumcision. [circinfo.net] Written by a Dr in medical sciences, his sources include systemic reviews and meta-analysis. It also includes a statement from the American Academy of Pediatrics 2012.
Be ignorant or be informed.

You can call others ignorant all you like but when us men have the evidence in our very hands that it does do nerve damage , it does cause psychological damage and when unnecessary surgery is done on someone without permission it is abuse !! As for it protecting from urinary infections ive had them whilst younger so thats a lie . Protection from hiv you are barking mad !

I think that going around calling people you disagree with "ignorant" merely backfires on the author. I was circumcised, Fortunately no harm has come of it, but in general I'd liked to be asked before having someone take a knife to me. It's a pointless ritual, in spite of attempts to rationalise it. You're right in implying I have an agenda though - respect, reason and the rights of the individual. I'm guessing that your own agenda is that either you or people you are close to have imposed circumcision on their own babies and you are desperate to defend the practice for that reason. I can't think of why else you are being so rude to people on this subject.
[Edit] Reading your subsequent posts, I see this is indeed the case.

Those "very keen observers in ancient times" - oh yeah. The ones who invented religion to explain what they couldn't understand. And would probably have burned you & I at the stake for having an opinion which wasn't theirs. They'd be the same ones who decided the foreskin was an evolutionary mistake. I despair at your pseudo-logic. Go on, make up some more fairy stories for us please.

@GoldenDoll This is unsurprising. Both of you presented with credible sources continue to cling to your ignorance. Ignorance is simply the lack of knowledge. At least the two of you are consistent.

@crazycurlz Have you ever even seen a girl with her clitoris cut off? I have. Your ignorance is stupefying. Your 'knowledge' is non existent.

There's nothing aesthetically displeasing about an uncircumcised penis.

Hanging was also legal until recently in many countries. China and USA remain the leading employers of the death penalty. One probably for body parts, one probably for religious reasons.

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