Must be why I'm so twisted.

@bigpawbullets If you say so. It is just a point of view. We are what we are.

My view of "spread the wealth" or "redistribution of income" is simply a different way of saying communism. And that model doesn't seem to work.

@bigpawbullets Your opinion is noted as is mine. Thanks for the post.

@bigpawbullets why bring communism into a discussion to support a decent wage that will support the living standard in this country?

@Freedompath Hear, Hear. It seem to be the only response that they know to make. COMMUNISM.

@Freedompath
Because ma'am, that's what it sounds like to me. Where's the money going to come from if not by a redistribution of wealth? Isn't that what taxation is? Somebody (government) is going to take more of the money I earn, and give it to someone else. If that's the case, why should I strive to earn more than the government guaranteed income? In fact, why should I work at all?

@bigpawbullets your simplistically lumping a wide range of things together. It's the same sort of simplistic argumentation that religious Fanatics make.

@Krish55
All right Krish. I'm willing to listen to your ideas here. How best can we break down my generality to more appropriate segments? I'm serious. I'm trying to understand your thought process.

@bigpawbullets back in the 50s, our golden age, they built the interstates on Goodwill.

@bigpawbullets I am a socialist who believes we need to stop talking about socialism as some big ideal. Instead let's talk about concrete things to improve people's lives now. We know that the accumulation of money is threatening to democracy. The politicians serve those who give them campaign contributions, not us. Let's fix that. Progressive taxes doesn't mean that the middle class will be hurt. It means that the super-rich will finally pay their share. The middle class will benefit as well from Universal Health Care and free college education, for example. You're right that the European middle class pays more in taxes than our middle-class does. But the benefits far outweigh the additional taxes. And there is the additional mental benefit of not having to live in society where there are so many angry people because of inequality and Injustice. Thus less crime, for example and less mental health problems too.

@bigpawbullets good question about your working...it sounds like you should ‘sit in the square and draw alms,’ due to your state of consciousness...instead of hating on other people!

@bigpawbullets I read your profile and you stated very clearly...’that nobody is going to change your mind,’ so you are just having fun at our expense...don’t you think that is behavior befitting a teenager? I feel mislead...and cannot trust your comments as meaningful!

@Krish55
I think these are all interesting ideas.
I'm not trying to argue against improving the lives of everyone. I'm just not convinced taking all the money from the top tier of the population would pay for it. I don't think it's a sustainable business model. Have you seen an actual breakdown of the costs of all these benefits vs the taxable income of say, the top 3% of the population? I'd be interested in looking at those numbers.

@Freedompath
I'm not sure where you got "hating on other people from. And the rest of your post baffles me. I don't hate you. Heck, I don't even know you.

@Freedompath
I haven't read anything here that would cause me to change my mind. I'm just trying to understand the Liberal's side of this argument. I don't think you're evil people. But nothing written here would seem based on anything but wishful thinking.

@bigpawbullets a person is not ‘trying to understand,’ when he states at his very own-set, ‘you are not going to change my mind!’ You speak with ‘forked’ consciousness! My friend...You surely must know, that some of us, read and decode what people write here! We ALL, slip up and reveal our true nature...the one that WE hardly know...if we have not been digging into IT very deeply! That is how I believe you harbor hate...our sub-consciousness does not lie! It comes out in our/your own words! I judge what you mean by your own words, that come ‘out’ from you, (especially reveling are the words you forgot to monitor)! That is what everyone uses to determine what the other person is saying and even what is not said, but...is there between the lines!

@bigpawbullets ...why would you ‘think liberals are evil people?’ Every person has ‘good and evil,’ in his/her nature! NO PERSON is all evil...and surely not ‘liberals are evil,’ people! Sir, if I were you, I would go back to the ‘drawing board’ for a spell...you have convoluted some important aspects of defining lines!

@Freedompath
Whoa!
I've inadvertently upset you. Sorry.
I'm not going to change my views. They are based on my own experiences. But that doesn't mean that I don't want to understand your views. I respect your right to have ideas and priorities which may be different than mine.

@Freedompath
OK. We appear to be talking past each other.
I've considered your comments. Thanks for sharing your view of my posts.

@bigpawbullets you contradicted yourself...’I am not going to change my views’...’they are based on my life experience!’ What do you think other people’s views are based on? Sir...you can’t have it both ways? I am not here to change your mind...but, I do know that to have understanding of anything...you will have to change your mind...one way or the other! You keep bringing out your imaginary sign, in a discussion...’you are not going to change my mind,’ there is where the discussion has to end. Who among us wishes to conduct a discussion with a wall that already reads...’you are not going to change MY mind!’ I am moving on...you see no value right from the start and You so stated it...clearly! Several times!!! I get it, I want push myself on anyone! Especially, when they say...’I am not going to change my views!’ I have no energy to waste..,especially where it is not wanted! I think deeply and hard..it is work!

@bigpawbullets ...you cannot speak for me...for your information...you never talked past me, I was paying careful and thoughtful attention!

@Beach_slim you seemed to be ill informed on my statements! I would re-read what I have written here and see where you got lost. We sometimes get blinded by our own positions.

@Beach_slim ...are you aware of how many people live in this country that need to support themselves and maybe even have a few children to support as well? Are you aware of how many high paying jobs there are? Those are held by older workers, which at least have some asset accumulation or highly educated new workers! How can people starting out live on less than $25-30,000 a year? They do not ask you how much you make, when paying for utilities! The auto mechanic does not ask and the insurance people don’t ask...you pay the same as the rich person. Medical care is not based on your income and most small businesses do not cover health insurance! One office visit now would cripple the low income budget! Small businesses can’t afford health ins for employees! So what would you suggest that the lower income people do...live at home or off their relatives or live homeless? It sounds like you are ok, with people who live ‘without money at all’ which is not my idea of how to support people in this country with food and shelter! Sure there are a few people who live close to the grid, but they are so few and far-in-between, you could not put them on a pie chart! They are an anomaly...you can’t support a population of people in this country in that manner! Your focus is very narrow ...explore the country and ck out how the lower income live. I myself...care nothing for fancy cars, jewelry, wear thrift store clothes, careful with utility consumption and live in RV and eat simple! But, I do not expect to live like a ‘yard dog’...in a country with enormous wealth! No one should...that is the height of greed!

@Beach_slim we do not have the government nor economy of Venezuela? Why would you use that as a comparison for this country? My Dr’s sister-in-law came from Sweden where the tax was near 48% at that time, he ask her if she would prefer to be taxed less and she said no! That they want the elderly cared for and do not want people living on the streets! So we can go around the world and find all kinds of systems! But, I live here and for 78 years and also my g-grandmothers were Cherokee, so I have many roots here! You have a lot to learn yet...especially about putting labels on someone you know nothing about and seem to misunderstand the meaning of ‘entitlement mindset!’ I care for people less fortunate than I am...if it was a level playing field for people...then all would be equal...it has never been equal because life is not perfect nor equal! I was a nurse, I know stuff, that you will probably never learn and so I have experienced real people in their real life! Keep your wealth and kindness for yourself, because it looks like you are gonna need it!

@Beach_slim the poor here have not been living high on the hog! The middle class are just getting by...you seem to completely disregard what it cost to live in this country! You cannot own a car without insurance, tags, taxes, in order to get to work as public transportation is limited outside big cities! My friend in Vietnam, tells me, they might eat your cat or dog, there! What on earth does this prove about living in America? As for the currency...we are not discussing that matter! If you focus and work one idea to a final conclusion you will learn more. I cannot solve the worlds problems, and I take on one thing at the time...here! I suggest that you not work in Venezuela, because it seems beyond you...

@Beach_slim I am not interested in getting into a currency discussion. I think that you are deflecting...if you are trying to inject fear here...I came from poverty! I have many skills from that up-bringing, that will be useful! I wonder what your concept of living ‘high on the hog,’ is? You must be watching too much tv...as I don’t know people who live ‘high off the hog!’ They are not in my circle! I accept your point of view, it just would not support my nature for the betterment of myself or my community! If it supports you, that is what matters here.

@Beach_slim I never at any point did I say I was ‘scared’ of poverty...as my main focus is ‘human dignity’ in whatever physical state a person is in! AND...I stated clearly, that I have gained skills from that provety that will sustain me! I manage money well and it is the same way that I manage my life...well! In my lifetime (which is not promoted now), I have studied many disciplines and involved myself in many of them. And, I did learn that a person, cannot see in someone else, what he does not hold in his own nature! That is an impossibility! You seem to have an ‘outward’ focus and have not a clue about your own true nature! If you did, you would come from that place and it would be authenticly what you need...not telling others what they need, especially owing that you have little information to go on, about the other person! Guess work about human behavior can be dangerous!

@Beach_slim ‘the blind leading the blind’...then don’t ‘lead’ walk beside people!

@Beach_slim ...I never described myself as poor...I said I come from poverty and I learned skills there! You see the measure of a man/women is not his possessions and in that regard I am ‘well off!’ I wonder where you come from and what you learned there?

@Beach_slim how is that working for you? ‘The proof is in the pudding!’ I can see past myself...can you?

@Beach_slim ...when did you start to judge people by YOUR image? There is not one single other person out here just like you!

I could not agree more. I fear the US will crumble from within rather than succumb to external force. And all the aircraft carriers and military might in the world won't stop it. Ruling classes never understand this.

YES but only if we allow it

@iamjc my daughter’s husband is private drafting contractor, so when she leaves her job, that will be their cost!

Who would determine what a "fair share" is?

@bigpawbullets we would! That's the democratic way! That's better than the market controlled by the rich making that determination.

@Krish55
Krish! That's a bit vague.
I'm not trying to make fun or rile anyone up here.
Do you mean by a popular vote? Are you saying "take all the money earned by everyone this year, and divide it up?"

@bigpawbullets I answered your first question! Our democratic government can make laws about a minimum standard of living, such as a $15 an hour minimum wage which would raise everyone else's wages. Universal medical coverage. Subsidized public transportation. Things like that to make life better for the majority. Your suggestion was simplistic and stereotyped. But you've heard of suggestions like mine before...

@Krish55
I have sir. And while it sounds idealistic, I have to ask again, where's all that money going to come from?

@bigpawbullets That's easy. Tax the rich.

@bigpawbullets My statement was rhetorical. I think the 1% concept speaks to this.

@kmdskit3
Ah, back to redstribution of wealth. I pay a pretty good actual amount as well as percentage of my income in federal, state, and local taxes. Naturally, I complain about this "burden". And it sounds like you're advocating a far greater amount than I'm currently contributing. So, what's a "fair share"?.

@godef
I'm sorry sir, I'm not sure what that means. Tax the top 1% of the wealthy?

@bigpawbullets Bottom line is that the filthy rich will demonize the poor to rationalize what they are: greedy.

@godef
Yes, I understand you don't like the 1% at the top of the wealth pyramid. But you still haven't clarified for me what your solution is. Are you advocating redistribution of all of their money?

@bigpawbullets What? Did I say I have an actual solution? Noooo. But OK, let e give it a shot: my solution is for the 1% to form a conscious and realize how socially destructive their greed is. Social Darwinism will ultimately trump Economic Darwinism, and it won't be pretty if Wall St ignores this.

@godef
I've worked for one Billionare, and numerous flag rank officers, and a Sec.of Defence. Throw in a handful of multi-millionaires I know. I'm going to estimate these folks are all in at least the top 3% of earners. None live what I'd call an extravagant lifestyle. The common characteristic I see is that they are driven to succeed rather than being greedy. I don't perceive them as socially destructive. They all contribute lots of money to causes that they believe in. The businessmen and women generate jobs and benefits for employees through success in their companies. I really don't see, personally, a group of greedy people.

@bigpawbullets A hasty generalization from just a few individuals. It is good to know that there are wealthy individuals that are NOT selfish, greedy humans.

@bigpawbullets That's quite a sample size you draw your conclusions from.

@godef
True... I just don't personally have that much contact with the 1 to 3 percenters. I'd only vouch for the actions I've personally been involved with.
What's your primary source of formation?

@bigpawbullets Seriously? You don't believe there are any that you have to ask me for any significant few I happen might know? The fact that the 1% notion even exists at all speaks volumes as to its reality. OK, how about Donald Trump for one? For all the millionaire contacts you claim to have, you are pretty naive about reality.

@godef
Hey! Good morning!
I'm sure that there are evil folk in the top1% of earners just as there are good folk. Probably the same distribution curve you'd see in the general population. Is that the 1% notion you're referring to? I just have never run into evil ones. I wouldn't classify the ones I've known as contacts. I worked for them. They probably have completely forgotten me. I'm not sure about me being naive or not. I would never deny that I haven't had a very lucky life. But I have worked and lived all over the planet.
And I'd say that from my limited experience, this is the best place to live. Oh, and DONALD TRUMP!
A direct result of President Obama. Who was a direct result of President Bush. The pendulum will swing back. Be brave!!!!!

@Beach_slim that was the stupidest post I've read on this site.

@Beach_slim could you recommend a book?

@Beach_slim He ended up having a failed business, apparently because he did not understand the real role of the employee. The person who works to help you make a profit has to be guaranteed a portion of that profit, even if it is only a paycheck. Hiring people who basically work for themselves and then give the leader most of the profit will leave as soon as they get a better deal. Not a great way to populate a workforce.

@Beach_slim Have you made money using his method?

Every American, without fail, sees themselves as a temporary disadvantaged millionaire. That is the reason the lottery (tax on those bad at maths), MLM, get-rich-quick schemes, and all that are so popular.

@Beach_slim It's a quote attributed to John Steinbeck, amongst others.

It's hard to call people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett "greedy." I get the impression that these "democratic socialists" are pretty much just a bunch of envious people who want what other people have.

@Keith_J Exactly. If they want wealth, they need to create it. It's not like that's an impossible task. It just takes ambition and effort.
I'm willing to bet that if they "won the lottery", they would change their tune really fast.

@RayMaldonado There are many ways to become dependent on welfare. Cancer, heart attack, auto accident, just getting worn out and physically disfunctional. Welfare does not imply lazy, there are instances. My wife cannot work, she has Chester-Erdhiem, does not qualify for welfare or disability. The system does not always work the way it should. Don't judge all by the actions of a few.