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My Religion Is a Country Club Theory: I was discussing gender pronouns and respecting a person's choice in alternative identities w/ my college student daughter this morning. (She has friends who're pursuing non-binary identities). I was making the point that when a person asks to be referred to by another identity, it asks nothing of us other than the inconvenience of having to remember. Unlike those things we're asked of from religionists all the time. Because religions are so culturally embedded, we tend to be blind to them.

I was making the argument, and she wasn't agreeing, that one of the problems I've w/ religion, and particularly Islam, is that it's like a country club: If you have a friend who's a member of a club with membership restrictions based on race, sex, or religion, you'd most likely have a problem with that friend. This is exactly what religion is: The Torah is full of severe punishments and restrictions. Besides tolerating slavery, rape, genocide, etc., G-d also hates non-virgin brides and disobedient children (stoning-worthy offenses), intermarriage, and keeping The Chosen "separate from the neighboring peoples with their detestable practices." Xtians hate gays and seem to relish the idea of non-Xtians spending an eternity in torture. Islam says flat out that non-Muslims must convert or die. (Non-Muslims are considered kafir, the opposite of the believer, one who conceals the truth of Islam. Jihad anyone?) Apologists will argue that non-Muslims exaggerate the significance but the Qur'an is full of threating language on the subject.) All of these traditions believe that life is but a wretched way station slowing us on our journey to the paradise that is our ultimate purpose. Now, fortunately for us, most adherents aren't nearly committed enough to do the dirty work their faiths demand. Still, they're the rules of membership for their "country clubs" of choice (as much as it is a choice).

To restate: Religious traditions demand action. Gender pronouns do not.

To wit: A biological female with (more than likely) two X chromosomes, who also eschews traditional gender pronouns, doesn't hurt you or affect your life in any way. Why not respect their wishes and stop wondering what their story or genitalia is? (And increasingly, science does tell us that there's more to the story.) Ultimately, it's none of our @#$%ing business. Consider it a no-cost social grace.

See the difference? Discuss.

Deiter 8 July 1
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Well put. I think most people get agitated because they probably don't have much else going
on in their lives!!

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I won't be labelled a Muslim apologist.. I know Muslims. They are just like you and I.

Such double standards.

@Deiter

You see. Here's the problem. Reading takes time. They're are hundreds of posts added every day.

There are also lots of Islamaphobic posts, many disguised as atheist critique, which are added regularly.

It's an exhausting mine field. Clear language is needed.

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Wouldn't it be nice to use gender non-specific pronouns . Do we really need to identify a person's gender every time we mention someone ? Whose business is it anyway ? Why is it shameful to simply use , " it ", if you're speaking of someone ?

It refers to an object or thing humans should be considered as something more than that

@Simon1 When I was studying Spanish , I learned that in Spanish , all nouns were either male or female . Why is assigning sex important , when we're speaking about someone , or even something ? If we're talking about someone by identifying them by their profession , sex isn't necessary . Dr. Smith , can be male or female . Teacher Jones can be either male or female . Or , these days , they can be both or neither , or started as one , but chose to be the other , or just dresses that way .

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I agree. Religions are meant to keep people apart, to divide and conquer. I have no issues with gender fluid persons, all I ask is that they forgive me when I mess up pronouns because I'm old with ingrained habits. For example when a Rebecca becomes a he my brain doesn't make that switch easily or quickly, but I try. If the bible is taken literally I would have been stoned ages ago. And I give the bible no place in my life today.

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It's not like this is the first time of people have wanted to be called something new, or more respectful. What's the big deal?

I mean, what's the big deal about pronouns. I'm in agreement with you Deiter. My response might read as an attack on you. Sorry.

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