I understand their point of view. Spreading insanity and guilt to the next generation is such a fine legacy. Just as racists feel its their duty to spread hate on down their gene chain. Whee!

@exilesky yeeeeah, that's literally the opposite of understanding their point of view.

@mattersauce If you say so. Sometimes people are so determined they are "right" that they are utterly blinded to other possibilities, such as being "wrong". My grandparents were religious racists who were duty bound to teach me that blacks are not as good as me. I'm glad I was strong enough to ignore their teachings, because their road for me to take to hell was paved with good intentions. Their telling me that if they ever found out I'd had sex with a black person it would cause them to never speak to me again showed me that their racism meant more to them than I ever would. It was horrifying, "conditional" love that I understand very well.

@exilesky I'm not debating the accuracy of their claims but the intent behind their actions.

@mattersauce Intentions will still take a person straight to hell if they are misguided. How many people have been shunned and kicked out of their family because they refuse to toe the line and partake in religion. Personally I prefer to have a relationship with my children regardless of their salvation, and control is not more important than love, to me.

@exilesky You don't believe therefore your opinion on "salvation" is irrelevant compared to a theist's view of salvation. The very thing I was saying you should try to understand you've circled all the way around to prove you absolutely refuse to try and understand. You've clearly been burnt by theism and can no longer remain unbiased.

@mattersauce Hey, while you're preaching to me about my lack of understanding, I'm really trying to understand why an "atheist" is so determined to try to convince me that they better understand what a "theist" thinks than I do. One would almost question whether you are actually a theist troll. I UNDERSTAND my family were convinced we would "all be together again in heaven". I UNDERSTAND that I sat there in church singing "Shall we gather at the river" and I know they were absolutely convinced of it. And they were sure I would not be joining them unless I believed and behaved exactly as they did. What I didn't understand is WHY they were so convinced that a racist pedophile such as my Grandfather had a guaranteed place in heaven, but I did not, and my pets that died were absolutely banned from heaven, even though they had never sinned as much as my Grandpa did. Since you, an "atheist", have such a COMPLETE "understanding" of exactly how EVERY theist thinks and believes, (especially those in the particular religion that I was raised in, which I have not mentioned) do tell, I'm waiting.

From their point of view, the Bible teaches that there is an age before which our minds are too young to understand the message. I recall there being a belief that young children who die still go to heaven. Therefore it is unnecessary to teach those things to children. At about 12-13 years of age explain that's what you believe and let them make their own choice. Also from the point of the Bible, free will and the idea that each person is making a personal choice is in the doctrine. That most parents tend to want to guide their children to the "right" answer is yet another example of the selective memories of most theists.

@exilesky Like I said, you've clearly been burnt by religion.

You're not exposing a troll on the forum, you're getting upset because you can't look at the other side without extreme bias due to what you've clearly been through. You hate them, and I'm not going to try and defend what you went through. You dealt with bad people and now believe that anyone who raises their child with religion is doing exactly what your family did to you which is not the case. There are good theists too.

If you want to post memes and get likes you can do that and all the affirmations on here no doubt makes you feel better. If you want to bring more people into atheism, what you're doing is just emboldening all theists who don't want to be grouped together with the pedophiles you're lashing out against.

@mattersauce Did I not just qualify that to suit you? And you ignore what I said and insist I'm say that "anyone" is doing "exactly as my family did" which I NEVER SAID. Guess what though, this conversation is over. I am blocking you because you ARE a troll who only wants to argue with me. I have better things to do. Bye.

Perhaps children who weren't taken to church and fed these thoughts were not abused.

@exilesky
You’re assuming that those instructions are peculiar to religion.

@Gatovicolo Some of them are. I don't recall any other entity trying as hard to convince me I was unworthy as the Bible did. I grew up in the 70s and saw society and my school change the way women were treated (i.e. no more "snow pants" for us girls). There was ZERO change in the expectations my church had for me during those times, and even now.

@exilesky
I understand that. Christianity does that. Bad parents do it too.

My father also tried to break my spirit, but he did not succeed. I don't think a person ever recovers completely from a childhood like this, but they can learn to live around it.

@exilesky Well put, and I agree, It's near impossible to entirely get over the childhood trauma that some have endured. Not to sound all high and mighty, but I honestly believe that those that those who have had to overcome such adversity tend to have a better admiration for love, life, and nature. than others that never had a traumitising childhood.
Just a thought.

@TristanNuvo Its a matter of choice NOT to spread the misery to the next generation. Too many people think "if I survived it, my kids should too, to 'toughen them up'" or some other sick rationalization.