When I downloaded this app about a couple of weeks ago I definitely categorized myself as agnostic but for some reason As the days go by I feel like I’m leaning more and more towards atheism. Did anyone go else go through this?
Yes. I made the same natural transition after joining Agnostic.calm. ?
Eh, I can't really nail myself down to one or the other, and don't care to. Don't think it's important, really.
What matters to me is being a good person and helping others, right here and now. I'm not terribly motivated to suss out whether I think there's a possibility of the existence of supernatural entities or not. Settling that question isn't going to change anything for me about how I approach life, so why bother?
Thank you for this video! It’s very helpful. I’ve been super busy at work so I apologize for just now replying
Not due to this site. In fact, while it was gradual it was not because of direct influence. I was just a little younger than you when my agnosticism turned toward atheism. At that point in my life there were no influences towards atheism just influence away from theism and mysticism. It just became hard to believe that they believed such stupid things.
For me, the difference between being agnostic and atheist is more slight.
An agnostic has learned or lives in religion. Therefore the basis of what they believe is rooted in religion, perhaps a very specific one that they grew up in but has found that to be incomplete, untrue or unbelievable. They have doubt about religion but cannot believe with certainty that there are no gods. In fact, they fall into the theist trap of belief that since you cannot ever prove something does not exist you should not by default say there is no god(s) since you can never prove that.
For me, an atheist believes with at least some certainty but not necessarily 100% that there is no god(s) because it should be possible to prove that they exist if they do. There is no evidence. Religion is making a claim that they exist therefore without any hard evidence there's really no reason to say that they might exist either. They make the claim, therefore it is on them to prove it.
For other atheists there is just a threshold of evidence that says to them that there must not be any god(s) or that like religion they grew up that way but any way you get to that conclusion is still right.
Oh wow thank you! I totally agree with what you said about some agnostics having certain beliefs due to rooted beliefs in the religion they were brought up in, i think in some ways that is totally true for me.
Nah. Atheism is too definitive for me. A bit like Christianity!
I once thought the same. But that was when I only knew that I was unconvinced by the evidence for any gods, and did not know Atheism is just a profession of lack of belief, not a claim of absolute knowledge. Now that I understand the definition, and also know the mountain of evidence against the truth of any religions: the errancies, discrepancies, mistranslations, and sorted & shady origins, it's an easy choice. Just wondering if you are aware of all these things and still feel it's too definitive?
@Rossy92 I agree about the shady origins of the Abrahamic religions but for certainly the eastern religions it is necessary to get beyond the deities and practices. I find generally that Atheism stops at deity and doesn't look beyond. For me there are no deities but frequently I find atheists throw the baby out with the bath water declaring deities are nonsense so therefore everything else is.We can get into semantics but that is pointless direction to take intelligent philosophical discussion.
@Geoffrey51 I sort of get where you're coming from, though I'm not sure how lack of belief in any gods would preclude you from having a particular philosophical outlook. For instance, I know that many Buddhists are Atheists. Perhaps Skepticism would tend to discourage one from certain spiritual or mystical outlooks as it covers broader ground. But then again, scientists often speak of the wonders of the universe and how much we still don't know. So I think some of the perception of being closed off to other realms of possibility is a stereotype of those labels and comes down to individual predilection.
@Rossy92 I think we are at cross purposes here. Gods to me are irrelevant. If they are used as focus and it helps devotees through it doesn't matter. My contention is that many of the atheists I have engaged with stop at the context of deity without looking behind their function
@Geoffrey51 I think I understand now. Sounds like the Jordan Peterson outlook. Forgive me if I've completely mis-characterized you again. Just trying to understand. If I'm correct, cool. It's much too late tonight to get into that dialogue LOL.
@Rossy92 no problem mate. It's the problem with text only Coms.
Check out this guy. He is why i feel comfortable calling myself atheist.
Yes, I expect it's pretty common, not unlike someone identifying a bi or pansexual for a while before saying, nope totally gay. Add to that, the intuitive appeal of the position that the rational response to a question for which there is no evidence is "I don't know." Also, a lot of high-profile atheists can be dicks, so it's challenging to throw in with their lot all at once.
For me the difference between agnosticim comes down to my confidence in the prior I now hold. It was moving from say 75% to my current 99.9. Somewhere along that continuum, I switch labels.
@Omen6Actual Understandable. I like it less well when a well-known atheist is an asshole , say, all people of African decent or native Arabic speakers. take a couple of recent examples.
I'm going to argue that point a bit. While many do go through a transitional phase, agnosticism like bisexuality IS a legitimate position. Agnosticism is understanding that there is no definitive answer available. I don't "believe" anything as I think belief itself is problematic.Bisexuality is a sexual orientation of its own. Like many aspects of human nature these are spectrums.
@OpposingOpposum Absolutely. If I seemed to denigrate either bisexuality or agnosticism as merely a transition as opposed to a legitimate identity of its own, I apologize. That was not my intent, but I should have been more sensitive to how the analogy plugs into a history of bi erasure. I'm sure some agnostics feel a similar "ag-erasure" in atheist communities. My bad for perpetuating it.
@Omen6Actual me too lol
I think that the high profile atheists who “can be dicks”(I’m thinking Harris, Dawkins, [Hitchens], Dennet) seem more like anti-theists than just mere atheists. Maybe “anti-theist” is synonymous with “very proactive atheist”. I think those guys are all pretty great but compared to them I feel like an agnostic because I am not as proactive. Compared to most other people I am a blatant atheist.
My main inhibition in openly admitting my Atheism is at work, because misconceptions are so prevalent. As for Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris, Dillahunty, I have no issues with an association with their lot. The Amazing Atheist and Atheism-is-Unstoppable, however, are mixed bags and a wholly different matter than the aforementioned.
I considered myself agnostic for two years after I left christianity.
I was still hoping God was real, I had brgun researching other religions and I thought calling mysrlf an athiest would forever scare people away from me.
Eventually I decided, even if God is real, I’ll refuse to worship him, other religions are just as ridiculous and I have met some amazing atheists.
Dont let the stigma of the word get to you. They want atheists to be demonized for a reason, to keep people in church. Sure it’s just a stupid label, but that’s how society works.
Meh, can you define a major distinction between the two?
Does it matter?
It's a bit confusing and a bit of a trap in a way. If you don't believe in any gods, that can be sufficient. Or you can believe there is no god and be more assertive about it, or you can say you don't know if there is a god or not. In the first case you simply have no belief, as in "don't care". In the second case you believe there is no god. This sounds the same except you state it as a belief. In the third case you are unsure if God exists and take the agnostic title. So you can have no belief, or believe in atheism, or say you don't know(agnostic ). The three cases sound similar but the big distinction is that the latter two have a title. People generally want to label you or slap some kind of handle on you. So take your pick.
I consider myself a godless heathen. And proudly so in that I don't waste time and energy on ancient fairy tales. All in the name of subjugation .