Yeah, that makes sense. I think my past experience is why I choose to be vocal about it. One lady told me she "had never met a real atheist before" and getting to know me really changed her mind about what we're like. I once had a coworker who was like "you're a really good person so you can't be a real atheist. All the real atheists I know are in prison." I like to shake up those perceptions when possible, but that's also very much a product of where I live.

@klang72 That makes sense as well.

Yeah that's where I'm at.

I used to teach as well. I live in a conservative state so I'll admit I was a lot more careful in that situation. I wouldn't think twice about telling someone I meet at a party or friends of friends, family of friends etc. but work colleagues are a little trickier. Some people might surprise you but don't feel like you're any less brave if you're not ready or if you've considered it and you don't think it's a good idea.

Thank you!

Yes, that is absolutely true. I think we end up having to be the bigger person far too often.

Oof, that's a tough one. I personally am against forcing any sort of debate onto people so if she's not into it I would respect her right not to talk about it. Especially because if she isn't open to discussion, she's not open to changing her mind. When friends bring it up with me, I always tell them my personal view, and when they tell me their's I'm like "oh that's cool" and move on. I won't let people put my beliefs in the closet by being afraid to be but I won't debate people either.

Also hey from a fellow Masshole.

WELCOME, by the way!

I'm sorry to hear this about your ''friend.'' Always sad to learn someone you thought you knew isn't really ''that'' person! I haven't (knowingly) lost anyone due to religion but politics has caused the end of three relationships with people I ''thought I knew." We're better off without them. At least this administration will change and life will go on....the religious arguments can last a lifetime.

If you really miss this girl....a funny card with a line or two about creating an ''off the table'' list of topics you two choose to avoid at all costs. (For the sake of the friendship.) If she's not willing to do that...forget her and find different friends! (Still, I'm sorry about it.).

I also work at a university and yeah, it really helps. My personal bubble of sanity.

@klang72 I agree completely. It is an island of rationality in a sea of madness.

Interesting. Why would you want to make them look foolish?

@Geoffrey51 I suppose that I just feel so offended by being gullible enough be indoctrinated be lied . By definition a lie is a deliberate attempt deceive. You have two types of religious people the educated ones who preach you you probably know the truth and then the uneducated gullible ones that the Bible refers as the Sheep. I feel that is important that people know the truth and not live in Everlasting ignorance and equally important be well equipped Stand My Ground when this topic pops up. I guess it's a matter of principle.

@RichardLeek so when you say religion are you referring to Christianity?

@Geoffrey51 yes Christianity is the religion that I was indoctrinated as a child, when I look back countless amount of people that I've met who were so naive and ignorant of the truth and origins of Christianity it's almost mind numbing. I have compiled of mountain of evidence that disbunks every aspect of Christianity I could get into it great detail if you would like.

I completely see where your desire to have those debates comes from. Many of my friends who were indoctrinated as kids became really angry once they realized what was forced on them. I was lucky enough to be raised by atheists so I never had to go through that. It might feel good to make them feel foolish but the end result is that they'll only cling more tightly to their beliefs and be more distrusting of atheists in the future. You can't logic people out of illogical beliefs, but you can set a better example and show them that there are people, enlightened by reason and living without , and they're exactly the kind of person you might want to be. If people respect you and look up to you they're more likely to change their minds all on their own. You need to inspire them.

sure you can, if you want to redefine god into meaninglessness. you can call the force that keeps things floating on water "god" if you want to, too.

@HereticSin
I quote you "Sure you can, if you want to redefine god into meaninglessness." Does it mean that there has already been a meaningful definition for God? If so, what's that definition?

That's a great question, Noyi. If I were to describe my beliefs as accurately as I can, I would call myself an agnostic atheist. Agnostic just means without knowledge, and whether we believe we have the right answer or not, we're really all without knowledge. I don't KNOW there's no , just like I don't KNOW there's no such thing as unicorns. No one can prove a negative. But burden of proof is on the positive claim and I personally don't see any evidence for a . I don't believe the existence of a is probable and therefor if you ask me if I believe there is a , I do not. That's my best guess with the information that I have.

If you consider yourself agnostic you are indeed an atheist. if you're not 100% totally convinced that there is a deity then you are an atheist how do you not know why the word agnostic even exist you either believe or you don't. Educated people do even have a slight inclination of science do not believe, however uneducated and ignorant people they do believe the church relies on these type of people, the Bible refers to them as the Sheep.

"Concrete evidence to prove there's no god" is an impossibility. You cannot PROVE a ''negative." For example...can you prove to me that there's no giant anaconda swallowing planets in a black hole? Nope. You can prove evolution but you can't prove a god, unless you see/hear/smell it.

Agreed, I am happy enough knowing the truth. Truth is what the facts are, why would I even care about other people's beliefs or opinions when I don't even know them, everybody is entitled to their opinions no matter how inaccurate they could be. You know the book of fables says the truth will set you free, well it's my experience I feel a lot better now that I'm not being manipulated or indoctrinated.

I was very lucky to grow up in a community that accepted me from day one but it would not have been that way had I grown up in a different part of the country. I'm very thankful for that and I'm also proud of everyone who has the courage to be themselves. Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. <3

That seems like a much more fruitful debate. What's your take, are or are not evil?

@klang72 lol, not evil. Though I'm a firm atheist, I have lots of theist I admire.
On the social side, I have a friend of mine that is a Catholic Worker who did far more than I do to help the world. The guy makes me feel bad sometimes. Some of the Liberation Theology guys in Latin America are pretty badass.
On the science side, you have Newton and Georges Lemaitre.
I have family I love that are religions.

It just makes me shake my head when so many atheist almost break thier arm to pat themselves on the back for coming to a basic, logical conclusion. Their are reasons why others have not come to the same conclusion, but it's not because the are dumb or evil.

And I forget in my first message... Hello ?

@JeffB Ah well, not much to debate there. I'm with you.

@klang72 I'm sure we can come up with something to fight over! ?
Startek or starwars?
Windows or Mac?
What house are you in Harry Potter world?
There has to be something!