hmmm..typed god twice in the comment...edited out?

yep not about belief its how stupid you are and how scared of the truth you are. Humans are scared to think they are just another animal who learned to use tools and write down what they have learned so they don't have to relearn it each generation. We learned how to kill in the largest masses we can. We learned a spear is no match for bow and arrows those no match for projectile weapons, and those are no match for bombs and bombs no match for atomic ones. We learn how to kill each other from great distences. But yet we hang onto the beleif some super being has all knowledge and all power over us and yet we still fuck each other over just about everything we want. How fucking stupid are humans? Don't ever wonder if another people came here and seen what we are doing and say fuck them they are the stupiest life form we have ever seen we will come back after they destroy their planet.

@benhmiller I’m sorry you have such a negative opinion of us humans. I don’t see it that way at all. It’s true that our bodies are part of the natural world, and our bodies have to deal with nature in its most brutal aspect, and we have to compete for life with the other animals. But I lean toward thinking that our bodies are nothing but robots and that our true selves are something else, a universal consciousness in which all share. That might sound like woo to you but that’s what I think.

Makes the most sense

Well said.

Agreed

“I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.”

I think I got that off Wikiquotes.

@WilliamFleming i do not believe einstein meant to be taken literally there, and he was not making a statement to the public, either; this was part of a letter to a rabbi who had asked him directly if he believed in god, and, to whom he well may have been using terms he felt would make his feelings clear to the rabbi.

i do that too, with religious people. when they say they will pray for something that clearly requires action and not prayer, i don't necessarily say "there is no god, so shut up!" sometimes i say "god helps those who help themselves," because the point isn't to make them feel bad or change their belief system; it's to get them to do what needs to be done. in this case, einstein was answering a direct question about whether or not he believed in god, and as i say, he was being asked by a rabbi, obviously someone who did believe in god. this may have been his tactful way of saying no, at least to a personal god.

i don't know that in his answer to the rabbi he was literally attributing the universe's glory to a literal god, whether personal or otherwise. even though this detail is different from my example, his statement that he believed that god manifested himself in the universe may have been a similar tactic to mine (speaking within the framework of the listener). i'm not calling that dishonest; the word "tactic" has "tact" in it, after all! context is important.

einstein also said, after all, when asked by someone other than that rabbi about whether he was a pantheist, "Your question is the most difficult in the world. It is not a question I can answer simply with yes or no. I am not an Atheist. I do not know if I can define myself as a Pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds." so even einstein didn't know whether he was a pantheist, at least at the moment he answered that question.

he also claimed not to be an atheist -- but of course that also was true, for him, at the time of that question, which was asked in 1930. einstein lived a long time after that. we can safely say that in 1930, einstein did not consider himself an atheist, did not believe in a personal god, and did not know whether to consider himself a pantheist, despite his admiration for spinoza. in 1929, when he said he believed in the god of spinoza, that was in a private letter, but five years earlier, publicly answering a question for a japanese magazine, he said his belief COULD be described as pantheistic. in the very same article he refers to religion as superstition. he was obviously thinking about it and developing a belief. when, if ever, did his beliefs stop developing? i have no idea! but if i'd been interviewed at the age of 14, you could now hit me with a quotation that averred that i believed in god. it would be quite a stretch to use that to say i was not an atheist now. at least as early as the 1940s, einstein was calling himself an agnostic (and, funnily enough, characterizing atheists as militant.

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@genessa It sounds as though you are well versed in Dr. Einstein’s views. His views seem very confused and contradictory, somewhat like mine. Maybe all we should say about him is that he was very reverent toward nature. Deep awareness trumps religious opinions IMO.

@WilliamFleming they may have been confused. on the other hand, they may have evolved over his lifetime. the pantheism references were pretty early on, in the '20s. he lived a few decades after that! now, i've been an atheist since i was 15 and have not reverted lol but he lived in a different era, and he was famous so a lot of people asked him to explain his views. (people don't follow me all over the world asking ME such questions!) he may even have answered without having completely thought about it until having been asked so often, since he wasn't a theologian. i don't mean it never occurred to him; it likely had -- but you know how you think in about difficult things and don't come to a conclusion right away because it's not urgent and you have all the time in the world, because you're just thinking on your own and besides, you're really busy thinking about energy and mass and stuff? what if someone then demanded an answer right away about god? you'd have to give them your best answer of the moment. there's nothing wrong with it, but then you might refine your thoughts over the next 30-40 years lol

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