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Does anyone else here read the actual arguments made by atheists/naturalists set forth on sites like infidels.org, or in books by the likes of Dr. Michael Martin and Dr. Rick Monnier? Do you have any other good suggestions that are actually for adults to read (so not like the extremely poor Dr. Richard Dawkins book - I tend to stay away from the mainstream atheists because they clearly have done no research on the topic)?

The last books I read in this realm were Sense and Goodness without God: A Defense of Metaphysical Naturalism by Dr. Richard Carrier, whom I positively adore but had a little beef with the book, and Atheism: The Case Against God, by George H. Smith, which I found to be the best summary of the arguments set forth so far, though by no means perfect. (The Drs Martin and Monnier books are amazing, but very, very dense and hard to read.)

PolyWolf 7 Sep 17
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"because they clearly have done no research on the topic".

okey dokey.

I've read some, not real page turners for me though. Dawkins on evolution is good, Carrier has the history and philosophy chops, but in general I don't need other people's arguments for any position on religious subjects, the arguments for the case are so profoundly weak that they require no real effort to dismiss.

IF you're interested in stuff that will help, Socrates on how things are knowable is decent. a foundation in real informational logic tears apart religious claims pretty handily.

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I ask you do you or do you not believe in any devine being of any kind any where. Why do you need to argue your own truth. Unless you are not completely convinced that gods do not exsist. Do you feel the need to convert anyone to what we believe? What research do you need to not believe unless you are trying to convert others or you yourself are not sure what you believe bumping you up to agnostic. There is no need to argue or prove why we believe what we believe. Unless your goal is to confuse and torment fundamentalist southern Baptists then I say go for it. But the case against god is not for our edification it is a way to make money by sensationalizing Atheism and to what end. Why on earth do we need to apostolize atheism.are we building an army are we competing for a prize based on who can convert the most people to our truth. Just slow your roll and stop trying to defend what you believe and just be. The alternative will make you angry and crazy and force you to put energy into getting to where you already are.

You caught me. I have an overwhelming need to confuse and torment them. It's just so easy : )

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I read a lot about all religions. Since I've became an atheist again I find them all interesting. **I should clarify. I read next to nothing about atheists. But I'm fascinated by the different gods and rules others live by.

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Depends on the length, if it goes down beyond the bottom of my screen I lose the will to live 🙂

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I personally do not need arguments for the existence of god(s). Observing reality, nature and the universe is all that I need to come to my A-theist conclusion. Your mileage may vary.

Right on brother the only reason to read about atheism is because your not sure if you are an Atheist.

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not me! oddly enough (maybe) i don't feel the need to read about atheism. i am pretty confident there are no gods, i don't need to find out how to convince others there are no gods, since that's none of my business, and despite being delighted to have found this site, in general i don't think too much about gods. my main concern is that people should stop trying to legislate religion and stop discriminating against and even harassing atheists.

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That's totally fair, though the authors I mentioned don't really make efforts to convince anyone, but rather to elevate atheism to a rational position (which for some odd reason, some philosophers don't believe it's possible to be rationally atheist). It's more about being certain through logic and proof rather than instinct, to sort of raise ourselves above the level of the faithful.

@PolyWolf um, when i realized there were no gods, i do believe logic WAS involved. that was a long time ago. i do examine my beliefs (not just on this topic) periodically but on the other hand i don't feel the need to reinvent the wheel. the "some philosophers" who don't believe it is possible to be rationally atheist are not the philosophers who impress me!

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If you want to live in a true Atheist state and don’t want to wait. Move to Sweden where 85% of the country is Atheist.

@brainrain i don't care if i live in a true atheist state. i just care whether atheists are persecuted or not. as for moving, yes, that's easy. everyone can afford to do that. right.

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