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Do you think that living in a foreign country for a long period of time changes people? Two very conservative friends of mine lived overseas for a long period of time and it changed them. After living in the UK for a year, one friend became a doula after her first child. She shunned the US trend to have C-sections in most pregnancies and lack of care for pregnant women compared to NHS and their system. Obviously not my topic of interest, but I'm listening to what you have to say. on US pregnancy experiences. To make a long story short, they came back to Colorado Springs after their contract in the UK was over, and they couldn't wait to get out of there and he got new work in Germany.

The other ex-conservative lives in Saudi Arabia and after several years there is considering retiring either there or Cairo, or Costa Rica. She likes having her own drivers and servants. Says she feel safe b/c the beheadings shut down all of the crime,

Another conservative friend of mine just travels a lot and hasn't lived in these countries. She is still a Trump supporter.

What do you think? Does seeing the world make you more open to other cultures and less conservative?

UrsiMajor 8 Sep 18
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31 comments

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I have always wondered what the people we think of as conservatives are conserving.

When Jimmy Carter was running for president he said that he was a fiscal conservative, meaning I suppose that he wanted to conserve a free market economy.

Many conservatives want to conserve the right to keep and bear arms.

Others want to conserve the right to free speech, freedom of religion, the right to assemble, etc.

IMO, a conservative can also be liberal, and vs versa.

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I think we need more conservatives to leave our country...

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I think so. I enlisted in the US Army at age 18 and have spent time in other countries overseas. I learned a lot of things. I was a conservative Missouri redneck with connections that I will not list. At the time I would haver been a Trump supporter if he was around. In 1980 I was a card carrying RNC supporter but I was watching and listening. My travels and people I met was sinking in. Today I am aware that the party of Eisenhower is no more. Trump is a conman and not for the people. He lies more than anyone and I will never go back to the GOP again.If this makes me a "liberal" none of it would have happened without traveling overseas.

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To quote Mark Twain:

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

It could be argued that I have spend the last quarter century living in a backwards, foreign country....but only parts of the US are backwards 😉

The very best thing one can do is travel, leave the beaten path, and "go native"

Ozman Level 7 Sep 18, 2018

This is brilliant!

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I think seeing more of the world opens up your mind.

I agree. It's good for people to experience the traditions of other cultures.

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I was in the Peace Corps and lived in Nicaragua for two years in a small town and it absolutely changed me. I believe the things that gives Americans a skewed view of the world is because of the size of the country. It is pretty much completely self contained and we forget about the concerns of the rest of the world. Americans seem unwittingly convinced that the vast majority of the world are English speaking Americans unaffected (and unconcerned) by the interests of other countries. Most of the rest of the world is closely watching and greatly affected by other countries in the world. What goes on in neighboring countries is particularly important. Many Americans seem indignant that other countries might influence us in any way and and seem insulted if foreign languages are spoken in their presence. Most people outside the US live in countries much smaller with a lot or a little dependence on other countries and have a far greater international awareness. People in these smaller countries are also well aware that Americans may not even know where their country is or what language they speak.

OCJoe Level 6 Sep 18, 2018
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I lived in Argentina for 2 years and in Italy for more than 1 year. I was raised in a right-wing family, but I'm not sure it was the living abroad that brought me around to the liberal side. I think other factors matured me more, especially learning to think for myself, becoming evidence-based rather than faith-based.

Experiencing different cultures does help me respect foreigners more, and it does help me understand that the USA is not as superior as it thinks it is.

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I lived in Malaysia for 6 years. Changed my family for the better, it was an incredible experience and wish to go back to being an expat soon. I saw other families hunker down in their bungalows and only venture to the American Association events and restaurants, I'm sure it changed them but not as profoundly. You appreciate many things about the US and also recognize there is more than one way to govern and form a society.

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Certaintly, for sure, absolutely, it changed mine (it is in my profile). The big difference I note between conservatives and Liberals is that many conservatives live inland and often in agricultural areas. Liberals tend to be places where there is contact and trade with people from other countries. Learning another language really tips the scales, at least for those that are sentient.

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In general, yes. Living in a different culture allows one to see his or her own culture without blinders on. It also provides comparisons which cause one to rethink many of his or her assumptions. It happened to me after living in Germany many years ago, and I am a much better person for it.

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I imagine it's a lot like drugs. Depends on which method and reason for travel you chose, and what youre looking to get out of it. You could reverently do psychedelics and learn the interconnectivity of everything, or you could get loaded, do some blow and make an ass of yourself or kill someone. Likewise it makes perfect sense that a trip to Europe, UK, and commonwealth countries, could make you more open minded, but it also makes sense that a conservative going to an oppressive but rich theocracy where indentured servitude is still legal would appeal to them too and send them further down a rich conservative rabbit hole. And of course your third example shows that it doesnt matter how much some people travel, they're already set in an ignorant world view. Walking around the world with your eyes closed and mind made up will bring no change either way.

Ive never been out of the US and seldom been to any super diverse metro areas within it, but Ive got a cosmopolitan worldview informed by the internet, encyclopedia, national geographic, growing up with lots of international friends via forums like this etc. Travel probably helps break a lot of people out of their stodgy isolationist worldviews, but the spirit of curiosity and availability of international pals to relate to seems more important than how many places youve been. It depends on whether you're a tourist or a traveler. Like GK Chesterton said, "a traveler sees what he sees; a tourist sees what he has come to see." If you're looking for confirmation bias you'll find it, or if you're looking with an open mind and heart you'll fill them.

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Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

Mark Twain

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You'd think, but many US tourists I see here in Thailand seem unchanged..as silly and prejudiced as ever, constantly insulting Thailand, sticking to Western-style hotels, restaurants, and travel companions instead of enjoying this tropical paradise.

Maybe it takes some time? Like living there for a period of years to accept other people and different lifestyles?

@RedneckProfessor I totally agree.....when we travel abroad we try (as much as possible) to stay away from the tourist-y places and discover the "real deal". It seems like people in other countries all speak a little English - and really enjoy helping us navigate around.

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Oh Yes... I lived 3 years in Spain, 2 years in Germany, 1 year in Greece, 30 plus years in USA. 3 Mediterranean Cruises, 2 North Atlantic, Drug Ops in South America and Caribbean... You change a lot. Many of your values will be put to the test and you will learn... "You Are Not In Kansas Anymore". Whatever you think your neck of the woods is best... you will find out... there is better across the pond, across the street, across the hall. As American... there is a whole world out there to explore and to modify what you thought was perfect... because it is not! Citizen Of The World, Gypsy for Life!

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I think yes, it does.

From my experience, exposure to a different country or culture opens up your mind and the way you see the world and life.

In my case, I am from India and there the religions are part and parcel of mostly everything. Most of the schools start the day with a prayer and the prayer depends on the management. If it’s a school run by Christian missionaries, it will be a Christian prayer song, if it’s a school by Hindu organization, then it will be a Hindu prayer and like that. Marriages are mostly arranged and is on the basis of religion and caste (and wealth of the families). Political leaders do all sorts of things to appease religious vote banks. Even friends and others you meet try to get to know your religion in the first talk and have some impressions about you based on that.

However as I came to the US for my studies, I found people to be more liberal and not discussing religion in public. I could see there is no much influence of religion on day to day life as compared to India. Gradually I figured out it’s totally okay to live without religion.

Though education helps in forming a thought, when you personally experience something from a different culture your brain understands it more easily.

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I have not lived overseas, but I traveled overseas a lot for work when I was young. Seeing the poverty that some people live in definitely changed my pespective on life. I would assume living abroad would have similar effect on someone.

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Helps you understand the world from outside the US bubble and that is a very real thing here. The news is, well if the US news were a person, a narcissistic egomaniac. There is very little news on how and what the rest of the world thinks and how things get done.
Travel is the best education you can go and get...I love it and think everyone should do it before deciding the rest of their life career/family/etc. Always take advantage of opportunities to explore new places and ideas. It is a gift we should all give ourselves as much as possible.

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If you have an open mind to start with it can not open more, if you have a closed mind it can not be forced open, but the people in the middle gain a lot. P. S. Old saying. "It was traveling away from it which taught me the most about my own country."

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I think that whatever you do that puts you in contact with a greater world will change you and broaden your perspectives. Just being in the army taught me respect for all types of people. If you lived out on a farm and never even went to town, by necessity your opinions would be mostly based on stereotypes.

There are narrow-minded liberals as well as conservatives. Those harping about the evils of capitalism might change their tune if they spent time in Cuba or North Korea.

You call Liberals narrow-minded and compare Cuba to North Korea! There is no comparisons between these 2 countries! I am a Liberal and I know that is a dirty word in the U.S. but narrow minded is not a liberal trait and Cuba is a communist country because of Tricky Dicky Nixon! Castro went to the U.S. for help getting rid of the American Mob that was running his country but Nixon chased him away probably because he himself was Mob connected. The Cuban people even as they are oppressed are still far better off than many in the U.S. as they get free medical ,dental and education as well as enough food to survive on!

@Johnnyvee I didn’t call liberals narrow-minded. I said that there is narrow-mindedness on both sides of the political spectrum. I know that narrow-mindedness is not a liberal trait, but there are hordes of people calling themselves liberal who have no liberal traits.

I’m sure there are some good things about the Cuban system, however, people are not flocking there to live. They flock to places where a free-market has brought wealth and well-being and where they can start businesses. Pure communism has fallen flat wherever it has been imposed, or has only survived, as in China, by embracing some traits of a free market economy.

As I recall, Nixon was only Vice President, and that was under Eisenhower. Castro gained power while JFK was in office. Maybe you are thinking of Batista.

The implication in the post is that if conservatives would only live in foreign countries for a spell they’d become liberals—that sounds bogus to me..

@Johnnyvee I just looked it up and I see that Castro did come to power near the end of the Eisenhower administration, so I was wrong. Still I don’t think Nixon can be blamed for the US rejection of Castro.

@Wangobango3 I have no doubt that there are some good things about Cuba. There were some good things about communist Russia, but eventually systems like that fail.

From Wikipedia:

The Cuban government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extrajudicial executions (also known as "El Paredón" ).[141][142] Human Rights Watch has stated that the government "represses nearly all forms of political dissent" and that "Cubans are systematically denied basic rights to free expression, association, assembly, privacy, movement, and due process of law".[143]

I expect that a few years in Cuba would open your eyes. I spent a year among Cubans in Miami, and I can assure you that there are two sides to the issue.

@WilliamFleming And exactly how far away from a major shift is the US right now? I mean there is a ton of hatred and anger causing unrest and strife between Americans.
Anyway systems fail all for the same reason...people are greedy and corrupt. Systems are all ideologically perfect however when you have to "choose" representatives and leaders things eventually will break down. I mean most first world nations are capitalist first with a very left (of the US) social policy. Socialism is not communism...at all.

@WilliamFleming I have been to Cuba many times and have some very good friends there! They are very closely watched and there freedom is very restricted. They do however get taken care of as long as they follow the rules. Castro met with Nixon as he was vicepresident at the time and refused to listen to him and said publicly that he is a "God damned Communist" because he wanted freedom from the Mafia and free schooling and healthcare for everyone.
"

@Johnnyvee Do you think that Marxist Communism is superior to a free market economy?

@WilliamFleming I never said that! The Cubans were far better off with Castro than they were before him! Their health care was similar to what the U.S. had at the time where if you had money you saw a doctor if you didn't you died! Communism does not work but a little socialism goes a long way to make things better. Eventually everyone will learn that if they can throw out the dictators.

@Johnnyvee Great, and I agree to some degree. I was just asking, that’s all.

A few social programs are good and necessary IMO if they are well managed and don’t get out of hand. It’ll be interesting to see how Cuba progresses from here—how much the free market is allowed.

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It is very natural for people to adopt the norms and behavior of the group. When we move to a different country we feel culture shock - a feeling of disorientation until we adapt to the new norms.

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I would say that it depends upon the person, the country and the location within that country. People who accept the exploitation of others as inevitable are likely to enjoy despotic tegiemes with rigid hierarchies. People who embrace democracies or do ialism will enjoy scandanavian countries. It is only when people escape the confines of their comfort zones, that they can truly embrace the opportunity for change. Thrust a rich socialite into a culture where he or she has to work in a field to make five dollars a day and see if that exposure does not change them? But have that same socialite drive by the field of workers in a Mercedes and expect change...not likely.

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I was only able to venture into the beyond after I retired and wish that I had done it sooner. America is not what you think it is once you go abroad which will take you more than a week in any country to feel the ease and serenity of life. I'm talking food, agriculture, lifestyle, music, art, nature and having people interested in you and not where you hailed from. You will find the beginning of Love as you have never though about. You have to get on board and take the step and don't make it a tour, but a journey for like three weeks. Pick a country, buy a ticket and start once you land.

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Depends on how open you are to what's around you. Some of the Americans I worked with in England only hung out with other Americans and seemed to regard the locals as just part of the job. A family we knew in Spain never left the base in over 3 years because they were so worried about the culture barrier. Not sure if living abroad changed me, as I was already keen to witness other cultures and weave my way among them and I appreciated the opportunity to do so.

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More than likely yes. When I would hang out with people from different countries, I find myself having an accent.

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You realize how small you actually are and how humans are the same. I don't know about your friends, but I had traveled by myself and it was the best thing I did. When you live out of a suitcase, stay in hostels and do overnight tours, life becomes raw. You can be who you want and meet some interesting people. Sometimes we can be so close minded, but when you are the foreigner it it brings another perspective. I went to Ireland for 2 weeks and I came back more envirormentally conscious. You learn a lot when you travel.

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Kind of got lost at she feels safe because the beheadings..

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