For non-believers who want to live in a society which respects thier beliefs, it seems to me the conversation we should be having is not about whether god exists or doesn't, but about civility, and promoting secularism in government. Fighting religion seems futile if not downright ridiculous to me. Regulation of religious involvement in law seems more feasible.
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.I some time imagine a world without religion.. Churches change into homeless shelters.money spent on ways to protect our planet. Funding for medical research. Schools teaching children about the true wonder of this world of ours "what a wonderful world it would be" there is so much to discuss on this subject.well has I said I am just a dreamer. John Lennon says it so well.
RachelPraolini
Level 4
Jan 30, 2018
2
it isn't hard to do.
Here in my home state of Wisconsin the Freedom From Religion Foundation FFRF is actively doing just that. Check them out. [ffrf.org]
DJ_Blaser
Level 5
Jan 29, 2018
2
right on.
Hmmm, just how is separation of church and state going? Isn't that in the Constitution already?
jeffy
Level 7
Jan 29, 2018
2
sure seems blurred these days
my point is that separation itself, or lack thereof is a better focus, topic than god. of course you knew that, but frankly all this god talk is useless.
@hankster The assumption that a theist viewpoint has authority over the Constitution is the problem in a nutshell, meaning the nuts have come out of their shells and unopposed, will have their way. So how does one immune the nuts from their objective without questioning their grasp of reality to make a case for the validity of the separation?
@jeffy I'll try....lol....citizenship, and all the rights, privileges, and funny hats it guarantees, is not established by any religion, race, creed, gender, sexual orientation or lack thereof, just and only by the Constitution. An individuals freedom to worship, to espouse, to exercise ones religion depends on those guarantees. Each individual citizen of each religion is equally depending on those guarantees. Those individual's freedoms and rights are established by citizenship, not thier religion.
@jeffy or perhaps by their own dogma you might say, regarding faith's reliance on an individual soul to be valid. One cannot believe or practice on behalf of another.
perhaps a biblical argument for separation. i know of no scriptural commandment or directive to involve god's will in the affairs of people not in the fold. doing so might be akin to Moses striking that stone rather than speaking to it. Borderline blasphemy?
God sent his son to establish a heavenly kingdom, not an earthly one.
@hankster The Constitution reads -"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." IMO the nuts believe this to mean Christianity has inalienable rights because God. This Constitutional directive is rather wishy-washy - it kind of implies there must be religion to some. The separation of church and state is a rather new thing. Theocracy ruled for the majority of history and there is little to stop it from swinging back the other way except educated people, and it is clear there is an ongoing assault on that institution. All children will be left behind when they have their way for cause. The struggle is constant. IMO it takes more than a subject of conversation - it takes sound education and political involvement to prevent a slide backward. Each of us must do what we can.
@jeffy you are of course on point with conversation falling well short of useful. To not bow in this struggle, I'm calling the "evolution revolution", is of paramount import if reason is to remain relevant. Honesly jeffry I've been agnostic for many years, but really not ..... actively? i appreciate the lesson on the quandry. i suppose thats the language where the legal tangles lie?
Separation of church and state is a good idea for all the right reasons. I'm for giving a few bucks to fund a class action. Let's start a fund raiser.
jayneonacobb
Level 7
Jan 29, 2018
2
somehow, around here i don't think a pickle bucket on the store counter is tenable.
who with the big money stands to gain or lose. who are thier enemies. hmmmm....
Fighting religion at a regulatory level is futile, I agree. Working to help other's find their own secular enlightenment is not at all futile in the big scheme of things. Only with enough numbers of non-religious people will our right to respect be won. As long as religiousness remains an overwhelming majority, the religious will feel entitled to disregard the rights of others. ...I agree with your point, though. "Fighting" effectively actually requires civility. a la the Ellen Degeneres School of goodwill ambassadorship! What she did for public acceptance of lgbt we want to do for respect for secularists.
MikeInBatonRouge
Level 8
Jan 29, 2018
3
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