@Donotbelieve Sorry, I want to theorize what else is in the darkness besides Satan.

@Donotbelieve Meh. I like talking with people, so I don't really care whether or not the darkness is real. I just want some theories to think about.

@Donotbelieve Based off of history and off of a type of government (Theocracy), I believe that the darkness in a religion is other religions, because:

1. It is against their own beliefs, so naturally they reject it.
2. It says "deliver from evil" which I think implies that a person who has a different religion needs to be "cured" of it.
   I don't have a third reason but I would like to hear some of your questions!

@Donotbelieve Oh, no you're fine! Honestly, studying a 3,000 year old book for 18 years can get kind of boring. I just like to theorize, and my sources were drying up.

Wow, so it's a big train of copyright then, huh?

The word Devil is modern English variation of the Middle English Deuil, a translation of the Latin Demon, which is, itself a translation of the Greek Damon which means divine messenger or ancestral spirit, in the Celtic Faerie and the Nordic Alf or if you enjoyed Lord of the Rings, the Elves. The Greek term Damon was used up to around the 6th century by Rabbi frequently to describe angelic beings, Seraphm because Archaic Hebrew was extremely limited linguistically and modern Hebrew isn't much better, so Rabbi frequently used Pheonican, Aramaic or Greek wherever classically educated as they were much more evolved languages, so could communicate ideas far more accurately. The whole trick about Judaism is being originally a verbal tradition and not written down for well over a thousand years of avid practise, so the early attempts and thus primary source documentation of books that include the Old Testament are in fact very poor representations of the ideas being discussed. A Damon would be regarded as a purely angelic creature among the mythology which includes early Christianity up until around the 12th century, when things took a darker turn for fear that devotees might turn away from strict clerical dictates and seek their own insights regarding morality and personal decisions, so particularly in north-western Europe damon, daemon and the middle English translation devil came to mean what they mean today, to scare followers into blind adherence to clerical statements and interpretations. As for Satan, it's a Hebrew term which simply means "arguer" and could be used as a title for public legal advocates facing counciliary trial, ie. it also means "lawyer," as a title but as a verb it actually just means anyone who argues simply for the sake of arguing rather than any interest in the subject matter of the argument. An adult who acts like a petulant toddler, basically. Not a big deal intellectually but very dangerous when armed. Hebrew being an odd language often a tongue in cheek verb is used to provide a professional title, or a nickname is used as the basis of a noun by referring to the actions of the one whom owned the nickname. Lucifer is believed to be the Greek translation of Nebudchanezzar II's war titles Shining light, Morning Star, etc., which was used loosely in a document around the 3rd century IIRC by a well known Rabbi to denigrate a contemporary ruler, writing in Greek and referring to him using Nebudchanezzar's nickname as a way of calling him equally inept in his community responsibilities. This document was dredged up in the Middle Ages as a scriptural reference and due to the period the reference stuck as a Proper noun and as a nasty term obviously is identified with arguer (satan) and angels that don't say exactly what the clergy says (devil/demon). Most fundamentalist Christian mythology, the fire and brimstone elements was invented from around the 12th century and has no real relationship to its own referenced source. It was largely adopted from cross cultural pagan sources.

@JasonKM Wow. You did some research, didn't cha?

@JasonKM Yeah thats pretty much what I was trying to say

@Seminarian Just reinforcing your point by tossing in a bunch of details. I mean I think we can infer the kind of people, identifying as Christians and running around telling others to be afraid of the Devil haven't, in fact undertaken any scholastic research of their religious assertions and therefore can only be assumed to be intellectual bullies for cause of purely personal agendas. Like a school thug trying to steal your lunch money, they try to buddy up to you, at first too and then subjugate for the sake of domination. An ideological bully is still just a common thug. Perhaps the "darkness" some of them refer to is their own behavioural guilt and disappearing into extremist fundamentalism is their sense of salvation, which is in fact denial and self disassociation. I mean in any normal conditions they're a bit off, church fundies, aren't they..

@JasonKM I agree 100%. I mentioned how important it was for a Unity Minister to understand Bible history and sources in my Hebrew Scripture History class this week. Most people aren't into this stuff any more (including my fellow classmates), but, I told my fellow seminarians that undoing some of the damage Fundy Christians do is one of our most important functions. These poor souls show up at our doors all the time. Good post by the way, I appreciated it.

What happened to all the theories?

@BongoCat I have no interest in religious theories. It's all nonsense anyway.

@birdingnut So THAT'S why!

At least there is nothing specifically in the Bible that prohibits lesbianism. I think those old Jews were kind into it. Later, women ran most of Paul's churches, and earlier financed Jesus' ministry as well. The later Pauline letters that relegated women to secondary roles are known as Pseudo Pauline. ( Ephesians etc.). They clearly had an agenda as you described. Paul was a classic Stoic who happened to be gay as well. So you 've got to consider the source. Right?

@Seminarian I consider the "Source" to be bunk, and not worth a moment's time wasted on it.

@birdingnut I noticed you capitalized "Source". Do Traditional Christians do that when referring to God? Just curious. I never went to church growing up, I believe that was a good thing, but whenever they attack me now, I'm at kind of a disadvantage.

@Seminarian No, just a typo. But many people who lean toward quantum physics-style suedo-spiritual beliefs call the collective energy/intelligence of the universe, our "Higher selves," or "Source." I sort of lean toward that myself, but mostly just think of "god" as just being us, not a separate "Source" being. I've seen no evidence that anything other than ourselves is "in charge."

So the so-called priests are just narcissists in a uniform? Cool.

Well, that's kind of a downer. Got any other ideas?

Waiting on those new more positive ideas.... any day now...

@BongoCat Just keep living a good life to prove them wrong.

@Fernapple Yeah! I'm going to go get some ice cream now! WOOHOO!

Hmm... can you translate that into less formal words please? (and I do understand what you're saying)

So basically religion is just one big story told in different ways and is passed down from parent to and it's just an imaginary world that someone wrote a book abo- OH MY GOD

@BongoCat Sarcastic!

@Marionville It's all coming together now! DER JUST NARSSISTS IN UNIFORM! Oooooh My God!

Har-dee-har.

@BongoCat "I am the light".

@chucklesIII No he glued them onto his cross then he said "This is the light"

@BongoCat

@chucklesIII omg xDD

So religion basically dictates what gets demonized and what stays "pure". I get it. (but seriously D&D is a gateway to hell are you kidding me?)

@BongoCat dead serious. Dice rolls straight to satan

Yeah, they aren't accepting of other religions because it's not their custom. You know when you try to write with your non-dominate hand? That's what they feel like when they look at other religions. Different. And they feel repulsive. So they think they are right and everyone else is wrong. (like spiritual narcists)

What's the story representing then?

@BongoCat, it's supposed to represent a journey from hard times (darkness) to good times (light). But just because a story says it doesn't mean that it's right.

@ldheinz Can't we achieve the journey ourselves WITHOUT the help of some super natural human being with a cult following and no proof it exists except a huge old book?

@BongoCat, of course we can. We're a lot more likely to get it right, too.

@ldheinz Yeah, because my grandmother forced me to go to church with her, and then the youth minister was going on and on about this verse that "if you give god 1 thing you will get 100 more in return" and that's just stupid and lazy to me

@BongoCat, their beliefs are so ridiculous that it would be hard to NOT come up with something better.

@ldheinz Mhmm. It's like a competition for who can conjure up the stupidest beliefs.

Yes, I know about the Spanish. They utterly destroyed the Mayans, Aztecs, and Incas. Man, old time religious people were harsh.

@BongoCat oh yes, them and more. they weren't alone but they were relentless.

g

@genessa Especially with the smallpox pandemic they caused. It was probably super easy to cause a genocide back then, just send a sick person to a underdeveloped civilization and boom! Millions of people dead.

@BongoCat particularly the native americas-americans, via the blankets. that wasn't just the spanish. but hey, they liked to burn people up too (and beheadings were cool; columbus' guys liked to behead random islanders).

g

@genessa It's like during their military training, their moral code got burned to a crisp. Makes me sick.

@BongoCat actually i think it was during their religious training.

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@genessa Well, they could always come here!

Yes, it was their reason. I just like to theorize.

Exactly what I think of every priest.

I see this very same thing. This is why Pence and DeVos are in the administration. The New Apostolic Reformation and others are in on this. Many Evangelicals feel that we are a "Christian Nation" and they would do anything possible to have that in writing. Imagine some of these ideas in place and church and state can be together while we have a proper place for the Museum of the Bible that has been built. In a few generations the faithful would willingly give all to the ruling government because it would be their duty to do so. A Fascist theocratic government that is fighting to come into existence. The only thing that can stop this is "we the people."

While other governments of the world have envied America our top money ruling classes have decided to pay less by having a government much like those others in the world around us. It's all about money today. You only matter as long as you can pay.

That's why they had to re-right the testament. Set laws in place. You can be a murderous psychopath, and you can be super religious, but you can't be both.

@BongoCat oh dear, i must disagree. you can and must be both... as long as you don't consider "the other" to be human.

g

@genessa Well, maybe you can be both but then the religious part kind of falls apart when you become a psycho because it basically goes against your beliefs, God isn't telling you to do this, but you do it anyway. That's what I think at least.