This idea that because white men get what they want, men in general do, is wrong and IMO, dangerous! I'm referencing all the media dialog lately about how women are abused in this society and how women in general are doing something politically about it. While white women are being sexually abused and raped, like women in general, men of color are being KILLED by law enforcement and racially discriminated against in the workplace and on the streets daily. We see on national television, white women pundits rationalizing about how those men should have been acting if they didn't want to be killed or racially profiled just like we see male pundits talking about what women should have been doing not to get assaulted. Only one of those causes brought white women to streets to protest en mass, but both of them brought out people of color.
I agree that women, regardless of color, have legitimate complaints about how western society marginalizes women's concerns, just as that same society marginalizes the concerns of any non-white or non-European idea (until it can take credit for it). But to pretend that white women have it harder than men of color in this country in any regard is simply insulting. White women get paid more than men of color (except Asian men).
White women have been made into the model of beauty on a global scale. A natural hair style for a white woman is accepted as "normal", a natural hair style for a black woman is considered controversial. White women benefit from white supremacy and white privilege. That is why the majority of them voted for Donald Trump, Roy Moore. White female republican senators, all but one, voted to put a white, male, credibly accused sexual predator on the SCOTUS. Apparently the majority of white women voters see a benefit in those men, regardless of the tarnished backgrounds of those men.
Let's stop pretending that white women voting patterns aren't just as responsible for where this country is at today as those of white men. Marginalizing men of color for white women is where this is going and it'll end just like Affirmative Action did. Mostly white women (and by extension white families) will benefit from any "laws or policies" created as a "cure" as women are also a marginalized community, and thus white women will also accrue the most from any efforts to fix any social disparities.
The problem is white supremacy not patriarchy. Focusing on patriarchy allows control of the narrative (note we are talking about Roe vs. Wade instead of securing individual rights as a whole) and keeps it narrowed to those issues that affect white women (and by extension women as a whole) but ignores the issues of people of color. If the problem were patriarchy, those white woman would have voted with the people of color who were fighting against Trump, Moore and Kavanagh, but they didn't. Those women saw a benefit in white men holding power more relevant than a woman's ability to control her body. That's white supremacy, not patriarchy.
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.The core of social inequality is less ethnicity than economy.
The majority of everyone, regardless of their ethnic group, has become more and more excluded from participation in the economy. The middle class is still earning the same as it was in 1970 (adjusted for inflation), while prices have increased ten and twentyfold on everything. (I pulled that last number as a rough approximation directly out of one of my body cavities, but gosh, it seems about right when you consider that two incomes can now just about feed and shelter a family of 4 in not-quite-poverty, yet 1 average income used to be able to afford a new car every three or four years and a nice ranch house for a family of four or five. And college for the kids.)
I agree that non-whites are hit both ways; they are both much more likely to be in the lowest income groups, and vastly less likely to be on the top. A restructuring of the educational, social, and economic system has been overdue for, let's say, 300 years. But in my lifetime, it really started going downhill again (after a promising start in the '60s and '70s) when the Republican Revolution came in and fought for all those oppressed, wealthy white men. They really felt Trump's pain, and now he's paying back. (Please ensure sarcasm detector is set to the "on" position when reading those last two sentences.)
Paul4747
Level 8
Oct 7, 2018
0
"The core of social inequality is less ethnicity than economy."
Thanks for whitesplaining it for me. However your comment doesn't explain how a white middle class person is more secure in their person than a millionaire black person. How a successful black professor can be arrested for getting into his home because a white person didn't think they belonged in the neighborhood. How black people are interrogated and arrested by the police for doing perfectly normal things like waiting in a Starbucks or having a BBQ at the beach.
Your comment ignores the manifestation of racism on so many levels that I'd be here listing them all day. Economics is not the only manifestation of discrimination. A woman being sexually assaulted is not an economic or educational issue and neither are many of the manifestations of racism.
@Paul4747 What "white person" are you talking about? Where did I call you a racist or a rapist? Where did I say that "everything is explained by 'race'"? Where'd any of that come from?
There are some things that ARE explained by race. To assume that that economic opportunities will solve the race problems in the world is simply naive and ignore of the manifestations of racism that are not economic any more than giving women equal pay will stop sexism and sexual assaults. That's not calling you a racist or a rapist, it's calling you naive. Are you so knowledgeable that you cannot be naive on a subject?
You are talking about white feminism, and the ways that feminism often leaves out POC. Unquestionably, POC have it harder than white women and women of color get the shortest stick of all in today’s culture. POC are dying at the hands of the people tasked with protecting the public, and from generations of institutional racism, and some people simply ignore those realities.
It is also true that many white women support white men in oppressing others because that is the best thing for them, personally, and to hell with everyone else. The Republican Party seems to be the party of “me first” and it holds power in part by stoking divisions among the various groups it would oppress - POC, women, immigrants, the working poor.
But many of us voted against Trump and reject the traditional white male power structure because of its impacts on everyone who is oppressed by this status quo. And we need not abandon women’s rights for minority rights or vice versa.
A rising tide, as they say, lifts all boats. The fury of women right now will, hopefully, lead to political shifts that will support the needs and the rights of all groups.
A2Jennifer
Level 8
Oct 7, 2018
0
Thank you for your post. It is not my intention to say that people should stop working on dismantling the tools of oppression in relation to women. I mentioned in my original post that those inequities exist and I'm not dismissing them at all. However, given the voting patterns of white women, the words of empathy are not being extended where it makes a difference for anyone but white women.
@redbai it’s my perception that liberals wish to make the world a better place for everyone even if they sometimes attempt to do so in misguided ways. Conservatives, on the other hand, wish to make the world a better place for themselves and their families, even if that is done at the expense of others. I think this is the defining characteristic for how white women vote.
"But to pretend that white women have it harder than men of color in this country in any regard is simply insulting. "
I'm not seeing that? What are you basing this on? Maybe I'm not paying attention. Can you point to specific examples where this is commonly happening?
hippydog
Level 8
Oct 7, 2018
1
"Bette Midler Pokes a Hornets Nest By Tweeting Quote About Women Being the ‘N-Word of the World’"
Her comment implies that all men are the same and garner the benefits of this society. That is not true. White women garner more benefits from this society than men of color and as voting has demonstrated, they vote to preserve the status quo of white supremacy in higher percentages than men of color.
Why is it that PSAs tell us not to hit women instead of telling us not to hit anyone?
Why is sexual harassment more of an issue than racial harassment?
Why does sexual assault complained about by white women get more empathetic media and political space than black people being shot by the police?
Why is a white man beating his wife "domestic abuse", but a black man hitting another black man "black on black crime"?
Why is it that when women complain about getting less pay than men (white men), no one is pointing out that everyone except Asian men are getting paid less than white men?
I could continue, but I think you get the point. There is no question that white women have it worse than white men, but they have it better than EVERYONE ELSE and their voting patterns demonstrate that they know the status quo (racist, sexist, homophobic white men in power) works for them.
white supremacy and patriarchy are not mutually exclusive. white supremacy's being a huge problem doesn't mean patriarchy isn't also one.
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genessa
Level 8
Oct 7, 2018
4
^This completely. Denying intersectionality is a dangerous path, and I think it's quite safe to say both white supremacy and patriarchy are only two of our bigger problems.
Where did I say that patriarchy is not a problem? I believe you missed the point of my post.
@redbai every time i disagree with someone i am told i missed the point. it's kind of an arrogant response to being disagreed with. you're so right that if someone disagrees with you, OBVIOUSLY they just didn't GET it. i did not miss your point. i disagreed with it -- not all of it but much of it. and to answer your question to poly, you said the problem is white supremacy not patriarchy. that is where you denied intersectionality.
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) i knew that's what you were referring to. now watch, you'll be told you missed the point. anyone who disagrees is obviously too stupid to get it, right? feh! Agree
Indeed white folk do have supremacy but there is a layer above of financial supremacy that not all whites are privvy to.
Deanervin
Level 6
Oct 7, 2018
2
A level of financial supremacy which white people also dominate.
@genessa White people denied the privileges of the super wealthy is not nearly the same as dealing with racism. Even putting forth the idea demonstrates an incredibly lack of knowledge of how racism manifests and the DANGERS there in. How is a white person's life ENDANGERED because they cannot indulge in the whims of the super wealthy? What basic rights are they denied because they don't have hundreds of millions of dollars?
But I get it. It's part of the narrative in America that when racism is brought up, people attempt to mitigate it with meaningless comparisons and false analogies. I never said anything about a "pain contest". Not in my original post or in any follow-up. It has nothing to do with my original post. It's just what you'd rather talk about instead of what I wrote.
@Deanervin perhaps classism is better described as “another level” rather than a “higher” level which implies that it is a bigger/more serious issue. It certainly is an issue and one that is deeply intertwined with and reinforcing racism.
Classism is less about extreme wealth but reflects generations of access to opportunities and resources, and often not being subject to the rules and laws that the rest of us are subject too (see Brett Kavanaugh, Donald Trump, etc).
@A2Jennifer I can see that.
@Deanervin The rights you lost and the scenario in which it occurred are ambiguous and so difficult to relate to discrimination because of any inate aspect of youth being (i.e. race, gender, sexual orientation or place of birth).
I'm also not sure how your comments address the issue I brought up that white women voting patterns tend to support white supremacy.
For sure! One sees that in action in "Mad Men," where such attitudes are blatantly spoofed for the amusement of a supposedly enlightened modern audience.
birdingnut
Level 8
Oct 7, 2018
1
I just got done watching the series (for the second time) on Netflix and you make a great point.
@redbai I'm watching it right now...again. I've watched the entire series about several times.
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