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What your problem with the Me Too movement?
I've seen on a couple of threads now, people (OK men lol) who seem to have an issue with the Me Too movement..
What is your issue with it ?
(trying to understand why anyone would be against it)

hippydog 8 Oct 27
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0

"@Xena I like to grok things as much as I can.. this is how I do it.. I am sorry if my methods, or anything I wrote, has hurt you in anyway. ​" See...THAT is exactly the type of male response I would expect from a clueless male who mansplains the ME TOO movement to wimmin. You really do flatter yourself to think your words "hurt" me...like I'm an overly emotional FEmale. No, you can't hurt me...you just ANNOY me. You haven't got one clue what this movement is about...FOR US! YOU are the oppressor after all. and what is "grok?"

Xena Level 6 Nov 5, 2018

What is a wimmin?

"like I'm an overly emotional FEmale."
or crazy.. lets not rule out crazy..

and honestly.. nothing to do with you being female.. i just believe if anyone comes at another person that hard, with almost no previous knowledge of me or who i am, is probably a bit damaged in the head.. Normal people are usually not on that much of a hair trigger.

"No, you can't hurt me...you just ANNOY me. You haven't got one clue what this movement is about...FOR US! "

well for one.. thats insulting, and hurtful for no reason.. two, it is very possible I am capable of empathy and can read.. maybe I don't get the full picture but I am trying to learn.. three, not doing it for you , im learning about it to make myself a better person.. four. YOU can go fuck yourself and your horrible attitude..

0

@hippydog In the Time reference is this: "She also alleged that Franken grabbed her breasts while she slept on the flight home. She shared a picture that appears to show the alleged incident." The photo clearly shows his hands posed well above her breasts, and posed for the picture-taking as a joke. A joke in questionable taste, but a joke nonetheless with no groping involved. This variance brings the rest of her testimony, and her motives into question. Other complaints could easily have been misinterpreted physicality, and still others are notably anonymous even though Franken is hardly a threatening personality. Sen. Gillibrand used the occasion to destroy Franken's career in the absurdly naive hope that she could get Trump to resign too. Mainly, she destroyed Franken to improve her own stats within the party. So I see her as sociopathically ruthless and a dangerously scary demagogue on the Left (Never ready for prime time, and probably also in the Russia mafia's pocket, being from NY).

Before his departure, Franken distinguished himself as a dogged questioner of Republican wrong-doing and made himself a clear target. Franken could have been one of the bright lights in the Progessive firmament and I am very suspicious about the accusations I consider Franken to be precise and honest in his discourse. You might note how his denials are very specific and differ in character from those of Kavenaugh.

As to Krauss, there is this from Sam Harris, who has an inside track via his association with Krauss. The video contains any number or characterizations which may be colorful, but reflect Harris's notorious credibility. Indeed, some of his comments are noteworthy for this forum

Well there is a disconnect right there...
"The photo clearly shows his hands posed well above her breasts, and posed for the picture-taking as a joke. A joke in questionable taste, but a joke nonetheless "..

A joke? That's not funny. I'm not sure why but the fact it's a military member some how makes it worse.
Me? The second I saw that photo I went "there you go.. proof hes likely guilty"..
YOU saw it as a joke?
So where is your line in the sand?.. you need video proof of him fondling both breasts for 1 minute?
If it was just her word against his, that's one thing. But her word coupled with that picture.. ? thats enough for me..

1

The up side of the # Me Too Movement is that it brings to light a very serious problem in our society. The down side is that it has thus far done little to provide constructive solutions to the issue.

It's all well and good to tell men not to engage in non-consentual and uninvited sexual behavior. The problem is, many men these days don't even know how to approach someone they are interested in properly. It's kind of like locking someone in a kitchen and telling them to keep their hands out of the cookie jar, but not stocking the shelves or refrigerator with any other food items. The end result is that men either over compensate and become too aggressive or under compensate and turn in to wall flowers.

We need to do a much better job as a society of taking accountability for teaching our young men those social skills which will allow them to be successful in their interactions with others. All the # Me Too Movements in the world won't change a thing if the core deficiencies which lead to their creation are not tackled.

0

@hippydog I suspect that Krauss and Franken are examples of misuse of the MeToo movement for political motives. The accusations appear to be false or to be cruel exaggerations.

We live in a severely pathological culture and behavior of both sexes often gets a pass because the deeper problems are too explosive to discuss. To the extent that the MeToo exposes bad actors, that's great if the guys actually did it. However, the claims against Krauss and Franken have serious problems that suggest they were hit-jobs. In Franken's case, the MeToo advocates piled on instead of denouncing the false accusations. False accusations do occur for whatever reasons. I don't believe the accusations against Kavenaugh were false.

"The accusations appear to be false or to be cruel exaggerations."
.. citations please..

I didnt go down the rabbit hole of google on it but I didnt see any links talking about them being false.. it's why I posted the two links under your post..

So if I'm understanding your post correctly. Your issue with the &metoo movement is that there may be more then usual false accusations, for political reasons?

0

I have no issue with it.

My issue is with the culture that has prevented this from happening sooner and a culture that allowed this behaviour to be seen as OK in some circles.

It is time that men really understood how consent works.

1

I inherently distrust anyone who is not a supporter of the metoo movement

0
  1. Lawrence Krauss
  2. Al Franken

Lawrence Krauss
Arizona State found evidence to support several allegations:
[theatlantic.com]

Al Franken
[time.com]

not sure what you meant by your post? do you have an issue with the #metoo movement?

2

I really like the #metoo movement. I believe that woman have an incredibly difficult time being respected in the workplace, public, and in relationships. I have two daughters, and I have mentored them on being strong and independent and not take anything from men in regards to trash talk, mental or physical abuse, and to stick up for other women.

Men (some) I think are having a hard time adjusting to women standing up for themselves. Call it tradition, how they were raised in regards to gender roles as previously defined, and there are probably a lot of men who may be uncomfortable with a strong (yet compassionate) woman in their lives. Then of course there are those that are simply Neanderthals.... In my humble opinion.

There may also be a large number of males that are afraid of the movement, due to possible past inappropriate behavior with women.

"due to possible past inappropriate behavior with women"
.. holy shit.. I never even thought of that.. that actually makes sense.. not all men of course, but would explain a large section..
I remember when I first heard about it, I started doing a little self examination as I was a bit of a drunk and asshole in my younger days.. but nothing I could picture a women accusing me of 30 years later ..

3

I love the ME TOO movement. Bravo to women who are speaking out and standing up!

"Because you are thin, you look easy to grab," a man told me recently. This chilled me to my soul.

Since age 15, I have been grabbed, molested, kissed against my will, stalked by two men, sexually harassed- two supervisors tried to rape me between ages 18 and 22- sexually abused, and endlessly catcalled by men. I was raped in a dark parking lot by a man who offered to walk me to my car in 2007.

When my daughter was 19, she was severely beaten and raped by a man who attacked her in her bed when she was sleeping in college. Claire, 28, has PTSD and still wakes up screaming.

I dress modestly and never go to bars. I cannot walk or run after dark. I'm afraid to park next to a van. Men could grab me, throw me into a van, rape and kill me.

This happened to Carol, 16, my sister's best friend. Carol was riding bicycles with a friend when a van pulled over. Two men jumped out, grabbed Carol and threw her into the van, bicycle and all. Her girlfriend got away. Carol's naked, beaten and raped body was found in a ditch two weeks later.

As a result, I have PTSD and anxiety. Women and girls are not safe in America, or anywhere in the world.

To men who hate the ME TOO movement: you are heartless, selfish, abusive bastards.

So terribly sorry for the violence you and your daughter have suffered. I don't know what else to say...

@FaithInOneself

Thank you for your compassion and sympathy. I appreciate you.

1

there is nothing wrong with the me too movement itself. like anything else it's misunderstood by many, and interpreted variously to mean that all men are rapists (nope), that no women EVER lie (nope, and dangerous to say that because the dominant attitude has always been that most women lie, and the me too movement is trying to change that), or that you don't have to use logic or pay attention to what's being said, done, etc. just as people think pc is trying to control what we say (it's just trying to teach idiots who are rude not to be rude; the rest of us actually don't say bad things to each other because we don't THINK of black folks as the n-word or jews as the k-word, not because some rulebook said "hush dear, that's not nice." ) anyone with a brain and a heart can see that blasey-ford was telling the truth and kavanaugh is a sexual assailant. anyone with a brain, eyes and a heart can see that al franken was set up by tweeden thanks to fox nudes. it's not about believing women over men or men over women. it's about understanding that the problem of patriarchy extends to, depends on, sexual domination as well, and that it's a real thing that must be addressed.

g

1

I think it has been a good thing, overall. It has brought to the forefront a longstanding problem. Hopefully, it will move future victims to report sexual assault with less stigma than past victims may have felt. The only negatives I can imagine are some false reporting and a tendency for some to automatically believe the accuser without evidence.

"The only negatives I can imagine are some false reporting and a tendency for some to automatically believe the accuser without evidence."

maybe the difference is I am willing to accept those negatives for now? IE: if men need to be a little extra careful today, i don't see that as a great loss.. A little payback can't hurt etc etc

@hippydog I think men should be extra careful too, but let's not throw out the rules of evidence. As far as payback goes, if a man is falsely accused, how is that payback for someone else guilty in the past. All men have not sexually abused women. We are all individuals and should be judged as such, not as a group.

@sfvpool the problem is.. what evidence? unless she immediately goes to the cops.. has a video .. or witnesses.. what evidence is there??

@sfvpool for a very long time, if they couldnt outright prove it, then it was thrown out.. maybe things should go the other way for a little bit.. HE has to provide evidence he didnt do it..

@hippydog Yes, she should immediately go to the cops. The rule of law is that one is innocent until proven guilty. I hope that doesn't change.

True, innocent before guilty, but it is estimated that the false claims are a single percentage of actual incidents. Most don't want to go through making a claim. Be strong women, you are supported by most!

2

The men who dis this movement hate that their perceived rights and privileges and entitlements are being taken away. It's more power we are taking from them. No more raping, molesting or groping for you!!! The women who dis it are quite confused about it's meaning

Xena Level 6 Oct 27, 2018

I feel it has to be more complicated then that.. Some people who seem against it look to be rational people in other posts.?

@hippydog Sorry...you have NO clue what this movement is about. Another male mansplaining the Woman's experience. It's your gender that is the reason for this ongoing battle we have against RAPE, being beaten into submission, being paid less...IN 2018 we still are defending ourselves against you. Why you posted this I just don't know. You disagree with nearly everything said here. You wanna help? SPEAK OUT AGAINST RAPE! TELL YOUR BRETHREN TO STOP IT!!!!

@PalacinkyPDX well. I guess for one.. I didn't actually say that.. I said more complicated .. ie: the dots on how it got there i don't see.. if it is just privilege and entitlement i want to know the dots , the lines that brought them to a different conclusion then me.

@Xena I like to grok things as much as I can.. this is how I do it.. I am sorry if my methods, or anything I wrote, has hurt you in anyway.

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