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Father/Son Ritual (for women & men to answer)

I have observed a male-centered "ritual" (for want of a better word) that spans generations. I wonder how common the practice is. It goes like this:

A father, stepfather, grandfather, or uncle goes up to a young male family member and (this scenario may differ but results are the same) roughly ruffles the child's hair or messes up his hair style or wraps his arm around the boy's neck and rubs his knuckles across the lad's head, sometimes inflicting discomfort or pain. In each case, the boy dislikes the "play," usually resulting in anger as a result. When someone complains, it's explained as a "guy thing" to "toughen him up." I have seen this played out throughout the young man's formative years.

For the men, what experience have you had? How has it affected you? Does this behavior make the man tough and a leader or angry and vengeful? Does this happen in other countries, too? I'm really trying to get a grasp on this phenomenon.

For the women, what have you observed, in both child and adult? How common was it?

EllenDale 7 Feb 15
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19 comments

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1

If it hurts the uncle us being a dick if it doesn't it's male bonding

1

Trying to picture it, but no, totally unfamiliar.

@Rugglesby Congrats if it would have been debilitating, make your own if it would have been nurturing.

1

I've noticed it , but I think it does nothing for or against anyone , unless it was intended to . . . ?

Dougy Level 7 Feb 16, 2018
2

Dad's are in charge of roughhousing. I did it with both my son and daughter.

But, I would not do it if it was abusive or made either child feel belittled. I certainly did not thing I was toughening them up.

It was just a way to show love.

I prefer other rituals such as changing a tire,working on a sink, working on the yard, putting together furniture. Things that will actually be useful in the long term.

LOVE your last paragraph. Reminds me of my fiance. He enlisted my daughter's "help" rotating tires, putting a new clutch lever on his motorcycle, etc. ❤ ❤

I try to remember the “important stuff” my dad taught me@BlueWave

2

I have always associated that to bullying and asserting dominance, the ones that did that in my family were the older brothers or cousins usually out of boredom. In my family adult males didn't behave like that, the closest thing to it was a tickle or a light poke in the ribs more as a gesture of affection than anything else.

1

It's fine if it's just roughhousing, but if the intent is subjugation or intimidation then it is wrong. I think that a light amount of teasing might be of benefit to teaching control of temper, as well.

If it is painful or humiliating between peers then that is solidly in the bullying category.

I ruffle my son's hair and it irritates him...but then I usually laugh or give him a hug.

I did have cousins that would do stuff that was directly mean, and my friends brother choked me till I passed out. Solidly bullying behavior. It did surprise him though, because he had so many years of Judo that he expected me to tap out. I didn't know that at the time though.

I doubt that any of it is really necessary or helpful.

1

Socializing/enculturing masculinity or, as I like to call it, male emotional constipation.

2

My last boyfriend did that to my youngest son. I told him never do it again and he explained that he needed to toughen up or he would grow up to be a wuss. I replied that if he did it again I would file assault charges on him. He stopped after that but not after telling me that was how he was raised and he turned out fine.

Funny thing, he's the one in prison at the moment.

Funny how life turns out, eh?

2

I might have had the hair ruffling thing very occasionally, and only from one particular uncle. None of the other stuff. I could have done without the hair ruffling but it didn't bother me much. I was brought up in Northern Ireland.

Thanks. I suspect it is world-wide, in one form or another.

1

This is the kind of thing I do to my mother's male cat: light hazing. It's a way for me to say "I'm bigger than you, I'm older than you, I have more status than you, and I could flatten you if I wanted to--but I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna abuse you, or ignore you; I'm gonna pay attention to you--which is my way of conferring status on you, actually--while reminding you of my status. You should be grateful.". My mother's cat adores me, btw.

Not sure if it works exactly the same way in humans...

See responses for yourself, but I would say yes. Pretty much the same thing.

1

I used to roughhouse with teen guys when I was growing up..they'd sometimes swing us younger kids in circles while holding us by the heels, then let us fly. We'd crash across the grass, then jump up and run back for more.

But overall, any boy who laid a hand on me against my will was going to have scars to show for it.

1

I've seen young men do the "Noogie" thing.

But in my family we just ruffled hair. No neck hold. And I seem to remember I know a move to counter that one?

????

@EllenDale Getting out of a choke hold. I had a lot of self defense training.

1

Nope, not really....
But Bruce Springsteen used to get that from his uncle all the time ????

He told you this lol?

@EllenDale Oh, I WISH!
No, it's in his autobiography.

4

It’s not to toughen anybody up. It’s a display of affection. The boys don’t like it because it’s not manly. Every guy that I’ve ever known has gone through it.

It's not a display of affection when they do it so hard that it injures them.

Yes it is. @kiramea

4

My uncle did it with my two cousins male and female but they walked all over him literally. My cousin Michele would climb up her father and do backward somersaults again and again.

6

Sure, happened all the time. Couldn't wait for it because it meant someone was going to give me a nickel. And that someone was actually paying attention to me. I never considered this to odd or to anything but showing love.

They paid you to do that to you?

2

What's the big deal. I don't even remember if at all it happened. Of course, they play with the kids hair. Its fun. Nothing more than that. I do not know about arm around the neck thing. That friends do to each other. But I do not see anything serious in it.

@MrLizard I can vouch I was a young boy myself once😉.. And I call tell you with my experience it may be uncomfortable but not frightening. It's done only by those relatives who are really close. And if someone who is not close does it, he will not do it next time, that I would have made sure. By the way, a little roughing up is good. Why do we want our kids to be 'touch me not'. Unwanted physical contacts are different where there is intention to harm you physical, sexual etc.. And definitely roughing up your hair is not physical harm or battery. Of course arm around the neck I have not experienced. I can not speak about that.

@MrLizard I have seen that roughness happening. It was a stepfather, and -I wondered if there might have be other agendas going on.

3

Never personally experienced it and, predictably, never inflicted it on my son. The closest I came was a quick affectionate hug, which, beyond a certain age, was awkward / not really wanted. But a parent reserves the right to insert themselves anyway. My wife's equivalent is to kiss her (now 25 year old) son's "lucky spot" on the crown of his head. He submits to it dutifully.

What you're describing is what I've heard called a "Dutch rub". I think it's a sort of extension of "roughhousing" types of male play and it probably is a way to show physical affection that's somewhat deniable, as men have been historically socialized not to be "touchy-feely" or nurturing or "sensitive".

I can really appreciate this explanation. Thanks!

1

It's a nuggie. You wouldn't understand. It just is...It means you belong. It means , hey I take you as being on my level but I need to show you I'm still on your level. It's a right of passage with none of the dominant type A crap that people associate with it.

Thanks. I was never included/subjected to it.

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