How does saying the two issues are treated differently cause a conflict between the victims of either?

IOW, you don't care about racism because you have your own problems. I get that. It's totally off point and, if anything, supports my point. But okay.

@redbai How dare you reduce me to that!!! I have been fighting for the rights of Blacks and women since the 60's! You don't seem to understand anything anyone says here in response to your post unless they agree with you. I read your post as whiny and male...no color involved really. I read it as a woman. By the way...1870: Non-white men and freed male slaves are guaranteed the right to vote by the Fifteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution...Women got the right to vote in 1920...I'm not whining about that. A WOMAN'S PERSECTIVE. Black or White...you men are always whining about how unfairly you're treated. You had to add women to your whine. Be angry about being treated like crap because you are a Black man...leave us out of it

@Xena How dare you start your first post with some condescending comment implying my ignorance. You don't want to be considered that, then don't do it to others.

As far as your fight for blacks and women, I couldn't care less. You're claims mean absolutely nothing in reference to the dialog.

If I don't agree with someone, I have a right as a human being to point that out. Just like they have the right to point out if I am incorrect in what it is that I say. That's how a dialog of opposing views is suppose to work, FYI.

The fact that you think that this thread has nothing to do with color simply demonstrates how you ignore it when it is the actual point of the dialog. This may shock you, but women of color suffer from racism too. The level of denial makes a mockery of your comment about fighting for black people, because black women are people too.

The idea that "non-white men and freed male slaves" got the right to vote in 1870, and thus eliminated the issue for the franchise for men of color is simply ignorant and ignores the need for the civil rights laws of the 60s where black people had to fight to eliminate poll taxes and unfair polling practices that kept black people from voting. Suppression tactics that continue to this day. Once white women got the vote, there was no concerted effort to keep them from the polls with laws that purposely kept them from the ability to exercise their franchise. They got to go to the same polling places as white men and vote with very little, if any, resistance.

And thanks for demonstrating the viability of this "intersectionality" that white liberal women are always talking about. I see how it is so inclusive given your arguments. (That's sarcasm, in case you missed it).

Reality from a black perspective.

@redbai Exactly! So, you'll understand my reply above...from a woman's perspective

@Xena Understand what? I never said there wasn't a woman's perspective in anything that I've written. Nor have I made any attempt to discredit or mitigate the issues of women.

I didn't say it had to be either or, I asked why they aren't treated equally. How does asking why they aren't treated equally pitting them against each other? Why isn't it just asking that one get the same respect as the other?

@redbai Your question pits one injustice against another when both groups are treated as 2nd class citizens. You think everything is okie dokie in the "metoo" movement? Just look at the WMS splainy #whyus threads in response.

At least people of color "get it" on the issue of discrimination. As a group women too often have misogynists amongst their own gender! I can't explain the psychology of it but have seen it on issues that apply to #metoo, even when they don't have a "dog in the fight".

I guess it also depends on what news media you watch. I'm on a blackout on tv proper but can't escape it in FB feeds etc.

@Qualia I don't see a reason why asking why one is treated differently than another is pitting them against each other. I'm not asking the concepts to compete, I'm asking people to treat them the same. If a person likes chocolate over vanilla ice cream that's not asking the two flavors to compete, it's a personal choice of a person to prefer one over another. Regardless of the person's personal choice of flavor, both must be treated the same for them to stay viable as ice cream.

Where did I say that women shouldn't be taken seriously?

They are equitable because both women and POC are groups that want their issues seriously addressed and, until recently for women, they aren't and were dismissed as having some other cause than sexism and racism as the cause. Both are accused of having done something that instigated violence against them.

Women are accused of wanting sex, or wearing provocative clothing or leading a man on, thus being complicit in her rape or assault. POC are accused of not listening with respect or crime prone or some other racist assumption to explain why cops can kill them. Both groups find the characterization of their behavior to be flawed reasoning for being oppressed.

@redbai that’s actually your first sentence.
Why should women be taken seriously...

@darthfaja Ah. So you've taken my comment out of context to attack it. Okay. I get it now.

@redbai or perhaps you expressed it poorly for I have taken it exactly as it is written.
If you meant something different then what you have written you may want to clarify as the vast majority of the replies on here are similar to mine. It is safe to assume others read it as I have.

However, the reality is that I’ve read it correctly.

Also your perspective and knowledge of women and rape crimes is inaccurate. Rape crimes are given some of the lowest priority of all but a few types of crimes. Read the recent crime report data. NPR has been doing a great deal of coverage with this as of late.

@darthfaja You quote me out of context and somehow it's me expressing poorly? Why not try putting my words into context and then they would express my concept correctly. I am not responsible for you taking my words out of context and then trying to figure them out. Believing that you "read it correctly" even after being corrected by the person who actually wrote the words, is nothing but hubris and denial.

Since I never said anything about the priority of rape crimes I'll pass on following that straw man.

@redbai
Why is it that a woman should be taken seriously about sexual harassment or assault, but a person of color can be dismissed when pointing out the inequities and harm caused by racism

Ok there ya go
So just like nearly everyone here
I have the same questions

Why shouldn’t a woman be taken seriously?
And I’ll go back to my original statement
They both deserve attention

@darthfaja Now in context, the implication is that they should both be treated the same and implies that they are not. The context of your responses totally ignores the part about racism as if it didn't even exist. Until you quoted my statement in context, you didn't even mention how racism is treated differently. Why would you ignore the racism part of the OP and only focus on the sexist part?

Which is the whole point in the first place. How easily racism is ignored.

@redbai then you should choose a different comparison, because what you are doing is rubbish.

@darthfaja It's rubbish to you. But I have no desire to write anything specifically for you so I have no reason to change anything.

It took 50+ women to send Bill Cosby to jail. That's disgusting. But in contrast, how many people have been imprisoned because of accusations of racism by hundreds of thousands of black people? While both deserve to be heard, one is silenced in the media and the other is given media time.

The "metoo" movement for black people was Black Lives Matter. BLM was turned into a terrorist group that sanctions killing police by many in the mainstream media. I've heard that "opinion" even on MSNBC from right wing commentators. Have any women been accused of being terrorists and wanting to kill people in the mainstream media because they want sexual abuse and harrasment to stop?

@redbai i understand that racism is a big issue but so is sexism in this country, Look at the presidential office and tell me where discrimination stands. It’s everywhere and it can’t easily be measured back to back with statistics. We need to be on each other’s side - not making comparisons about who is luckier than who

@HeraTera But my point has nothing to do with whether or not it exists. My point is that when a POC says that it has occurred, they aren't believed. There's even a history of this phenomenon even when there is a video of the altercation. Almost 30 years ago the cops who beat Rodney King got off because they were able to convince a jury that a black man, being beat by four men with batons and surrounded by cop cars and a cop helicopter circling above was a threat because he wouldn't lay still while being beaten. Just a couple of years ago a man was choked to death, pleading for his life by cops in NYC, on tape and people tossed out rationales about how he should have been acting so that the police wouldn't have had to choke him to death for selling lose cigarettes.

That's because the media presents black men in a way that gives some facile rationalizations for black men to be beaten generally treated in a violent manner. Media personalities and politicians avoid talking about the racist nature of events when POC claim that it is obvious. They use pathetic euphemisms like, "I don't know what was in his heart, so I can't call him a racist.", letting racist know that they won't be called out for their actions.

How do you think people would react if they saw a tape of a woman being raped and a politician said, "I don't know what was in his heart, what motivated his actions, so I can't call him a rapist."

I concur.

@Pbpierson2 Oh, how surprising, a Conservative troll. You just proved my point. I don't need this crap. you are blocked. Good riddance to bad garbage. Buh bye! and yawns I'm going to bed.

Where did I say women are always taken seriously?

@redbai Oh jeeze don't be a dick. YOU misread that, not me. I'm responsible for what I say, not for what YOU are reading into it. Two down. See ya! I got no time for this! Fuck your assinine, point whoring, vague AF thread! Lol! You won't see me stepping in that shit again.

@CaroleKay So you like to project your behavior onto others. Good to know.

How they are addressed in the media.

Thats unfair to the original person posting. Bill Cosby is an exception. Exceptions do not make the rule. We could bring up our president if you want to compare sins

@t1nick How is Bill an exception? What does Trump have to do with this post?

@mikebeed. Your implication is that all black men are like Cosby. Cosby does not represent the actions of all men of color.

My point is, should all white males be judged by Trump's misogynist actions? I think not.

If we shouldn't be lumped together, and generalized based a pathologic outlier. Why should anyone else.

@t1nick No, I don't mean it like that! Pointing out Cosby does not imply all men of color!

@t1nick This alludes to the point I made above. It's about power structure.
Bill Cosby, by name recognition and the influence he had, escaped justice for many years not because he was black, but because he had power, money, name recognition, not to mention the luxury of being male.

Why how is that relevant?

@Qualia If you end up in jail you haven't escaped.

@redbai He, like others, got away with it for decades. The backlash for outting predators is still in effect. I don't think Cosby et al are getting death threats the way the women who outted them do.
You have to be prepared to turn your life upside down, without the luxury of security guards, to speak out.

@Qualia And people have gotten away with racism for generations. There were men who were publicly hanging black people all over this country and taking home body parts for souvenirs. Many rich and powerful people who did that never went to jail, unlike Cosby. Many of them were able to pass on the disgusting traditions of killing and abusing black people and create monuments making heroes of the people who championed that cause.

How many monuments are there of rapists and sexual predators, where whole segments of the population are coming up with facile excuses to keep them? Actual statues celebrating them for the accomplishments as rapists and sexual predators? I'll tell you. NONE! There are literally thousands of them in the USA making heroes of racists and traitors who fought to preserve racism.

Where is anything remotely like that in reference to keeping women oppressed?

@redbai I don't agree with those monuments either, much of them erected during eras where suppression & the status quo were in full force.

"Where is anything remotely like that in reference to keeping women oppressed?"
Since you're male and don' t need to be concerned with this directly women are still legally fighting for the right to body autonomy to have the right to decide for themselves whether or not to carry out a pregnancy for whatever reason.
Even corpses have more rights to body autonomy than women at this stage in history.
No one can force you, or anyone else to give blood, marrow, or a body part in life or death but somehow women are legally challenged on whether or not to have our bodies used as a vessel for another person, regardless of health, circumstances in life, or mental stability.

That's where.

Do you agree that is just?
You are minimizing the struggles of women, including women of color, with your comparison, when neither speaks of justice. All the while conservatives in the corner laughing their asses off with no fucks to give to the matter.
You're in a sense, fighting against those who would otherwise agree with you.

Am I by default wrong to you because I happen to be white? Even if I sympathize with the plight of racial discrimination?

@Qualia How does what you wrote answer my question about physical monuments glorifying racism? If there were statues of people who fought against Planed Parenthood, or glorifying those who killed doctors that were abortion providers you'd have a point. But there isn't and my question remains ignored, just like racism is in general in this country.

If you believe that men of color have control of their bodies, you are obviously not aware of the black experience in this country. The fact that a boy of color can be killed for holding a toy gun as a CHILD and it be rationalized demonstrates a lack of respect for black LIVES. The fact that a cop can beat a person of color and not be punished because the cops have made policies that justify it demonstrates a lack of respect of their body integrity. The fact that a black man can be killed just because a cop feels fear demonstrates a lack of control of LIFE. These are all existing conditions for a man of color regardless of how much money they may have or where they live in this country.

But a woman of means, who has health care or lives in the right state, has full autonomy of her body and as a citizen of the United States can relocate to a place where their rights are respected. And there isn't a single public monument glorifying the people for trying to take away the rights of women to have the right to decide what they want to do with their bodies.