I think this story below, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the arrested man or the actions of the police highlight the real problem that immigrant Muslim men (especially) refuse to assimilate in to the culture and language of their adopted homelands.
Had this man, at the joy of seeing his old friend, spoken in swedish and said exactly the same thing, no one would have batted an eyelid, might even of raised a smile at his happiness, but because of religious arrogance shouts a phrase that in every non Arabic speaking country in the world is KNOWN to be a war cry of the insane suicide bomber much to his suprise and indignation he is arrested.
The accused here claims not even to be an imigrant but a Born Swede, 2 nd or 3 rd generation, but it did not matter to him, because he refuses to be seen as that except when it is expedient, and is Muslim first.
Likewise in this country when various imigrants where polled recently on what it means to be British, most nationalities claimed, it meant to be part of the on going history, the culture, the traditions and patriotism of the host nation the UK, however one group stood apart from all other, Pakistani Muslim men who sady said all it meant to be British was to have a British passport other than that it meant nothing as most of them as in their hearts they were still Muslim first Pakistani Second and happened at the moment to live in England.
This is not assimilation, it is selfish ingratitude, in my opinion.
[dailymail.co.uk]
2
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.I don't know how accurate this reporting is, but as a general principle, my attitude has always been that if I decided to move to Canada or Norway or the UK or whatever, it would be a high priority to me to learn the language and customs well and accurately, and to have proper respect for local customs and sensibilities.
The general pattern though, regardless of nationality in my experience has been that first generation immigrants are not willing to let go of their culture. The pattern then is that the 2nd and 3rd generations progressively assimilate. The first generation may not even speak the local language, the 2nd generation is bilingual, by the 4th generation they may at best understand but can't speak the language of the old country. I remember my father saying he could remember "the old timers" speaking the mother tongue, and he could understand but not speak it himself. And he was roughly gen 4. And I am monolingual and have basically no awareness of my cultural heritage beyond the bare facts of my ancestor's countries of origin.
I suppose that the world's "shrinkage" has changed this dynamic somewhat, since immigration is no longer an either/or proposition in the sense that it's more feasible to get on a plane once in awhile and visit the family in the old country, have them come and see you, and to maybe change countries more than once in your lifetime. Such that it's easier to regard where you're currently domiciled as little more than what passport you currently hold and what return address you currently use.
I would therefore not hold that against anyone or be inclined to suppose it's somehow unique to a particular nationality.
mordant
Level 8
Jan 16, 2019
1
If I come across this story in a proper newspaper, I'll probably come to a conclusion and respond here with my thoughts on it. However, since the Daily Mail is well-known for being extremely inaccurate in its reporting, reactionary, racist, openly anti-Muslim and arguably fascist, I'll need to get some facts that haven't been put through such a biased filter before forming any sort of opinion.
Incidentally, I consider having a British passport to be all that makes me British, too. I feel no emotional ties nor special attachment to this one particular area of mud and rock sticking out of the ocean, upon which I was born through sheer chance.
Jnei
Level 8
Jan 16, 2019
5
See I didn't need to say a word...Jnei said it perfectly!
Well said.
I'm sure then you would be equally happy living on some other rock sticking out of the ocean else where in the word, without an NHS, democracy and relative freedom 
@PalacinkyPDX don't be ridiculous
Jnei:
@LenHazell53 I would be just as happy living anywhere that enjoys the same benefits we enjoy in the UK, yes. We are not, however, the only nation that has those.
@Jnei Exactly, but WE do and that is why you still live here rather than somewhere that is not here and is by your own criteria not as good as here and that is why your initial statement is inaccurate as well as pointless.
@PalacinkyPDX You obviously did not read the article before commenting ...ridiculous?
@PalacinkyPDX If "Oi" in that country is a known war cry used by suicide bombers, then yes, especially if he is yelling it repeatedly while running through a crowded public area.
Actually "Oi" only has an alternate meaning in Japan where it means "hey"
@PalacinkyPDX
"Allahu Akbar" is used in common greetings in Arabic, however screaming it repeatedly while running IS NOT I know my life long best friend is half Iraqi half English, and the more common greeting is As-salāmu ʿalaykum
Oi is not pronounced Oi as in oy vey, it is pronounced gutterally o'yu, as it is short for hey you, again I know because my grandfather is Jewish and my father is a Cockney from the east end of London where the exclamation originated, among market traders.
Football fans are neither right or left wing they are simply people who like football, being a violent hooligan like wise has no political bias it is simply an act of barbarity carried out by morons (I'm sure you know what they are)
Do you really enjoy parading your ignorance like this or do you suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect?
@PalacinkyPDX you know what I am actually beginning to feel sorry for you, it is sad when someone has become so bitter and angry that all they can do is throw about ill informed nastiness in a vain attempt to score virtue point and gain the presumed admiration of strangers on a web forum.
You're a sad little puppy unable to let go of a rubber bone, in the hope you may garner a few ooohs of approval and affection from a world you could not possibly understand.
Jnei:
@LenHazell53 Erm - well, no. I live here because it's where my family, job and home are. There may come a time when I live elsewhere.
I am going to reply to this more fully Len but for now...you cited the DailyFail...you lose
Amisja
Level 8
Jan 16, 2019
3
Feel free to find the story in various other papers worldwide.
And
Lose what?
@LenHazell53 Any credibility. I live in East Lancashire, I have lived and worked amongst Muslims all my life...I have seen Muslim doctors work for hours, providing personal sacrifice to save the life of some right wing beer sodden scumbag, I have dear dear friends who are Muslim nurses, guys as well as women. From where I am sat right now there are Muslim people who had Christmas trees out at Christmas and sent us cards. The local mosque sold poppies and a set of young Muslim lads dressed up in a traditional Indian regiment attire for the WW1 remembrance. Why would anyone be proud of a country that enslaved their ancestors and mistreated them when their grandfathers were ASKED to come here to help after WW2? Yet they are. They love the footie and the cricket. Yes there are issues. We heard of the 'grooming gangs'. However the vast majority of paedophiles in UK are white. Those men have been condemned by most Muslims in the same way we would condemn white paedophiles.
When young men, particularly, feel disenfraiched in THEIR OWN country and some charismatic leader turns up and fills them full of BS, is it any wonder some of them turn to violence?
Another life time ago, I used to turn out for the Anti-facist league, (precusor to Antifa) and a guy there, much older and more radical than me said we (the established British population) would sign our own death warrants if we failed to support the then newly arrived Kenyan Muslims. He was right. British Muslims are British Muslims...
@Amisja I agree with much of what you say, which is why I made point of drawing attention to the fact that it is those noticeable groups who ghettoize themselves and isolate themselves and refuse to assimilate. The most noticeable of these groups in my experience, because they make no secret of it, are Muslim men from Pakistan, Egypt, Somalia and Uganda.
Most immigrants, especially the adult crowd, are very resistant in separating themselves from their own culture, religion, and traditions. Obviously most of them are escaping from wars, religious persecutions, and looking primarily for jobs, unavailable in their countries. with this in mind; nationalistic assimilation, remains in second place.
The solution? Change the political and economics situation in their own countries.. The more advanced countries in Europe and the USA have a large responsibility In that regard,
Eldovis
Level 7
Jan 16, 2019
0
I was speaking of immigrants, not refugees and asylum seekers, but I take your point.
Tribal and cultural bonds significantly pre-date nation-states. Most people identify with their nation because it is also their tribe. How would you feel if your were, say, a Christian in Pakistan with roots in England?
Mitch07102
Level 8
Jan 16, 2019
3
If I had decided to emigrate there and make it my home, I would learn the language, adopt the dress style and endevour to find work suited to my skill set.
I would not parade around in a pin stripe suit and bowler hat, only speak English and refuse to work with anyone who was not English.
I would not cry racism when my neighbors celebrated ede or observed a call to prayer.
I would still be English born, and an ex-pat, but I had CHOSEN to go an live in another country and another culture and would not be so arrogant as to accept that culture to change to fit with me.
Us brits gave up that shit with the end of the empire.
@PalacinkyPDX You presume to know an awful "fucking " lot, don't you?
@PalacinkyPDX Word
@LenHazell53 Calm down Len. It's just a forum.
@PalacinkyPDX
So glad you agree, but I feel I should point out that being presumptuous id not actually something to be proud of, or to boast about, it is a bad thing.
Also whether I am at present copulating or not is irelevent to my idiocy or lack thereof.
@Mitch07102 Perhaps but when someone calls me a bigot, an idiot and so forth, I do tend to take that personally.
@PalacinkyPDX Oh you really are foul minded are you not, carry on proving just how childish and disgusting you are and how incapable you are of holding an intelligent and reasonable conversation.
I would not agree with your take on it at all.
hippydog
Level 8
Jan 16, 2019
3
Please elaborate as to where you feel I am wrong and I shall try an either learn from you, or explain where I have failed to make myself clear.
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