So I've watched the video of the kids with the MAGA hats. I didn't see what the kids did wrong. If anything, the black guys and the indian fellow playing the drum seemed very disrespectful. Did I miss something?
5
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Dang... I honestly thought no atheist person would really support Trump and what he stands for as just a human being. I’m shocked you feel this way ?
sandrarocks83
Level 7
Feb 9, 2019
0
What way do you think I feel?
@beenthere that the MAGA kids were not being disrespectful
@sandrarocks83 No feeling there. Just an observation from my perspective. IMO it doesn't mean anything about being for or against Trump.
Kudos to the Elder who tried to diffuse the situation. Shame on the school for using kids to promote anti-abortion (and anti-women) bigotry. The Black Israelites are... probably nut cases. A whole lot of mental illness going on, using groups to assuage the trauma of cognitive dissonance.
racocn8
Level 9
Jan 21, 2019
1
Diffuse the situation my ass. It was outright aggressive behavior and he should be thankful that kid was there. Someone else might not have had the same restraint.
I don't see a problem with the video. It's a public space. No one initiated violence against another. The man had every right to play his drum, the black dudes had every right to make statements and ask questions.
The group of students showed restraint and simply ridiculed the adults.
Who was right? Who was wrong? This is an atheist / agnostic site. I am not supporting much from a black israelite group as I feel their dogma is dangerous. I also support neither the maga movement or the identity politics of the left.
The most dangerous thing I see here is Israeli prophecy they are pushing forward to create world war and nuclear holocaust; followed by the obvious pushback it will create. Also the amount of young people following the American war machine of identity politics, right or left.
SCal
Level 7
Jan 21, 2019
2
First of all, the hat. MAGA hats are red flags that announce you're looking for a fight. Put on a MAGA hat and you're saying, "I'm a racist douche and I dare you to confront me on that... I DARE you... Bring it..." And then they get all snow-flaky when the hat has the exact effect that they wanted it to have.
Benthoven
Level 8
Jan 21, 2019
5
BD66:
Could you explain how "Make American Great Again" means you are looking for a fight?
Oh, and don't forget this one
[motherjones.com]
Or maybe this [theguardian.com]
This was his campaign [splcenter.org]
Its just a hat. I've seen way more offensive clothing. We need to be honest with ourselves about who's assigning meaning to that hat. If you ignored it and made it unimportant, would it have more meaning or less?
I can not find much info about how this was developed, so proceed with caution. But I like it's style, it's got pluck [americasvoice.org]
@beenthere: That would be like saying the swastika is just an arm band.
Humankind lives by symbols, and these hats have come to represent deeply angry and frightened people who desperately want combat. They wear the hats to provoke people.
We didn't create that symbol, they did, just as pussy hats were created to signify that the person wearing it believed that women's rights were being threatened and they needed to stand up because the man who admitted he grabbed pussy somehow made it to the White House.
It is a symbol. It's become a symbol, and those that wear them know this. They deliberately go to restaurants and gatherings, and marches, and proudly display their hat for that very reason.
@Gwendolyn2018, @Benthoven Symbolism is undoubtedly a tool. It empowers those who use it to manipulate those who follow it and those who fight it.
@BD66 because they are the words of Hitler, I mean Trump?
Yea....you missed the SJW snowflake bus. Don't worry, another will be around in 5-10 min on the internet.
jondspen
Level 7
Jan 21, 2019
0
You missed it completely. The native elder was trying to de-escalate by using traditional drumming, by his own admission in subsequent interviews. The drum in his culture is a symbol of coming together, besides he is an elder. The children have varying degrees of guilt regarding disrespect. Many were just caught up in the moment and in need of using up their adrenaline from the previous encounter. The young man in the elders face is different. He was intentionally "mad dogging: and trying to intimate the elder. That was, and is disrespectful. A child doesnt do that to his elders.
His actions were a clear cut example of white male privilege. He felt, as a child mind you, that he could get in that elders face and directly and overtly disrespect him. He felt this way because he is white and is used to seeing the adults around him getting away with similar behaviors. Minorities have lived with type of direct challenge for generations. They cannot fight back because they are a minority and do not have the power. This young man understood this and knew he could do it with impunity, exactly because he was white. If you cannot see this, then perhaps you are also part of the problem.
t1nick
Level 8
Jan 21, 2019
6
BD66:
Have you even watched the videos? Phillips and his group come out of nowhere, barge their way into the kids forcing them out of the way, change directions multiple times forcing more kids out of the way until they encountered Nick Sandmann. When Sandmann would not be intimidated, Phillips banged the drum in has face for 2 minutes? That's deescalating? He deserved to be knocked back on his ass, but Sandmann was very disciplined.
Wait a second... what would make you (or the Indian elder) think the young men needed an enticement to come together? And what idiot would think an ancient Native American tradition would do the trick with these kids to begin with?? Looks like they were already quite happily on the same page with their reason for being there.. If anything the ''elder'' was the one mad-dogging, but for a different reason.. Turns out he wanted some exposure, and he got it, by lying about what happened.. ''they came up and surrounded me, intimidating me, yelling obscenities at me... etc''. Then when they showed him the video proving the exact opposite, he had to walk it all back.. The only ones actually causing a real problem were the Israelites heckling the students. [dailymail.co.uk]
@Captain_Feelgood. I do agree his calculations while well intentioned were misplaced. While the Native community recognizes the drum and its significance, to. He was in err to think that a group of catholic students would take it the same way. The paradigm of the church has shown it doesnt respect cultures in any case. As well as the segment of white society you speak from.
BD66:
@t1nick This all would have been a non-issue. The kids would have gone back to Covington telling about their encounter with Phillips and the Black Hebrew Isrealites. The Black Hebrew Israelites would have their fond memories of heckling the group of rich snot-nosed Catholic school kids. However Nathan Phillips went to the media with a completely false account of what happened that day attempting to smear the kids from Covington.
This explanation right here.
That's a lot of interpretation of the kids mind.
Here's the 2 hour video taken by the Black Hebrew Israelites:
1:07 They are taunting the Covington Catholic kids
1:12 Phillips and his group march into the middle of the kids attempting to intimidate them
1:17 Phillips and his group give up and the Black Hebrew Israelites start taunting the kids again.
What's amazing is the the Black Hebrew Israelites and Phillips group actually thought it was a good idea recording themselves harassing and intimidating the group of kids:
BD66
Level 8
Jan 21, 2019
3
You are 100% correct. The two hour video shows the whole sordid affair.
First the kids were harassed by one group of adults, the Black Hebrew Israelites (a hate group).
Then Phillips and his group marched into the middle of them trying to intimidate them with their drums.
The school was also negligent leaving the kids in the middle of such a volatile hostile environment without enough adult supervision or adult protection.
That group of kids responded about as well as you could expect in that situation.
BD66
Level 8
Jan 21, 2019
5
Not sure how playing a drum is disrespectful. He’s even stated he went between the two groups to break up the tension.
ThisIsPatrick
Level 6
Jan 21, 2019
3
BD66:
Well if you were standing with a group of your friends, and I marched into the group banging a drum forcing your friends out of the way, changed directions 2 or 3 times each time forcing a new group of your friends out of the way. Wouldn't you and your friends consider that to be disrespectful?
Those kids were quite disciplined in the face of his aggressive intimidation tactics.
@BD66 If you are afraid of an old man with a drum than you seriously have problems. Time to change your brand of razors...
BD66:
@OtherPatrick I'm certainly not afraid of an old man with a drum. Let me tell you about one of my best friends from high school, Allen Brooks. Allen Brooks was adopted by two white parents. He was half white and half Native American. He was 6'2" 185 pounds and he and I played basketball together for many years. Just after Allen Brooks graduated from high school, a teacher at the school who was ~45 years old, 6'5" and 230 pounds said "Hey Brooks, how is your dyke sister?" My friend Allen proceeded to beat the guy to a pulp. Everybody in my home town thought it was funny that the jackass teacher who called Allen's younger sister a dyke got exactly what he deserved. The police knew about it, but they didn't do a thing because that was small town justice in the 1980's. If Allen Brooks, a group of my high school friends, and I were standing where the Covington Catholic kids were standing, and Nathan Phillips had gone into our group beating his drum moving one way after another through the crowd forcing one kid after another to move out of the way, then came up to Allen Brooks and starting beating a drum in his face, I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that Allen Brooks would have hit him right on the chin and dropped him. Nathan Phillips would have received exactly the small town justice he deserved for trying to intimidate a group of high school kids.
Personally, I don't know how I would react if that old jackass had approached me hollering and beating a drum in my face. I would most likely hold my arm out to keep him at a distance and preserve my personal space. If he struck my arm with his drumstick, I would have likely shoved him back.
I think Nick Sandman handled the situation as well as or better than I would have if I was in his shoes. The only thing he could have done better was to gesture to Nathan Phillips that there was plenty of room to go past him on the left or the right.
BD66:
@OtherPatrick I'm obviously wasting my mental energy having a discussion with you.
@BD66 You have yet to display any mental energy so you certainly aren’t wasting any. But do go on blathering, you are good at it.
BD66:
@OtherPatrick Nope. You are a complete waste of my time.
@BD66 Okay Felicia.
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