I'd be interested in knowing more about Carl's notions of "spirituality" in this regard. Anyone have any links or writings to suggest?
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.The problem is that religion is generally unwilling to defer to science when science contradicts one of its dogmatic assertions.
The Dali Lama, unique so far as I know among major religious leaders, has said that when science corrects religion, religion must accept it and change its views.
Now I don't know how much of that is nice-sounding rhetoric and how much his religion actually practices it. And it may be that so long as science is meditation-friendly he doesn't care. Maybe he can afford to be generous.
But that's the problem in a nutshell. Religion does not stay in its lane, which is asserting things that can be neither proved nor disproved. Science does not comment upon that which is non-falsifiable, and if religion would stick to what's non-falsifiable then it would have no quarrel with science.
Religion doesn't want to do this however, because that which is non-falsifiable is a steadily shrinking realm of influence. Thanks to science.
mordant
Level 8
Mar 5, 2019
2
Two Sagan quotes addressing that.
"Who is more humble? The scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us, or somebody who says everything in this book must be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of all the human beings involved?”
– Carl Sagan
-- and --
"In science it often happens that scientists say, ‘You know that’s a really good argument; my position is mistaken,’ and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it.
It doesn’t happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.”
– Carl Sagan
The people who believe, promote and control what religion pushes, will never willingly defer to anything or anyone that would limit their control of the masses who believe them. They would lose to much power and money.
I'm a Sagan fan. I believe he means that uncertainty, awe and wonder can remain consistent with science. Things we can't explain don't need to be attributed to a God, just what science has yet to discover or determine.
Athena
Level 8
Mar 5, 2019
3
Thank you, Athena. I think you nailed it. Carl has always been quite poetic as he shares his love of science and discovery.
Many thanks for the link. Quite an interesting read. Sagan was a great man, full of logic and truth about life.
Possibly my favorite Sagan quote of all time.
"I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking.
[...]
The world is so exquisite, with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better, it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look Death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.”
― Carl Sagan, Billions & Billions: Thoughts on Life and Death at the Brink of the Millennium
@WilliamCharles excellent, thank you for sharing!!
@Redheadedgammy YVW. That, and his Pale Blue Dot quote.
@WilliamCharles Brings tears to my eyes knowing how humans are destroying our beautiful Pale Blue Dot.
@Redheadedgammy Yup
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