So how do you maintain a level of respect for those who believe in these fairytales? I find it harder and harder to accept opinions from folks that think there’s an old white man that lives in the clouds. Maybe I’m just an old white man...
Yes I’ve found I myself have the same issues . I Kant even meat ten halfway because there stances are just so unreasonable. I find it’s vest I just avoid all together discussions with the religious about religion
As I see it we have no logical choice but to respect everyone, not because we are trying to be good, but because everyone is worthy of respect. It is respect as in taking a second look and recognizing the miracle of life and mystery of conscious awareness. We love and respect children, and they are prone to believing all kinds of silly things. If the person is a threat, steps might be needed, but that is another issue.
The concept of God that you describe is by no means universal, even among fundamentalists. I think that almost all religious people think of God as being outside the realm of space, time, and matter.
Well it is disappointing when you hope to have more in common with someone but let me put it into another realm.
My wife is looking to make more friends and she is realizing that she can't let certain "turn offs" get in the way of that as she'd rather be happy than right.
She met a woman who shares her profession, is good at it, and is also looking for friendship.
It didn't take long however to see her new friend's warts. She's not a good active listener, and so despite having lunch at which they introduced each other, and discussed in general terms their children and families, this woman keeps mis-remembering my wife's FIRST name and whether she has any children. And then at a dinner they went to with others, this woman asked super embarrassingly ignorant questions of an Indian national at the dinner, that reflect not only ignorance but incuriosity and a sort of ugly Americanism. An odd trait in a writer.
So my wife is determined to see the humanity in this woman even though there are some really annoying turn offs in the mix. And isn't that how it works with relationships? You have to accept people as / where they are or you don't have many friends.
Yes people can be boogers but so can you and I. In reality if my wife has to correct this woman 3 or 4 times until she gets my wife's name right then problem solved -- isn't that better than taking it personally that she misremembers and calls her Kathy rather than Becky? I mean it's 2 syllables ending in an "ee" sound so that's better than nothing. It's all in how you look at it and what you're willing to sacrifice for your vaunted principles like "don't fuck up my name".
I used to believe that a person had to be either gullible or self deluded to believe in religion, in time I have modified m opinion.
I know good, talented and intelligent people who have a blind spot when it comes to godbothering and like to think of themselves as (insert religion here) but actually follow only a few select doctrines and don't even know what their holy books advocated.
There is a big difference between these ordinary decent people who happen to identify one way or another and the fundamentalist shit heads who let religion and doctrine rule their lives and actions, commit atrocities in the name of a god or gods and are in fact deranged.
The casual believer thinks no less of me for my atheism and respects my choices, hates almost no one and has no slavish devotion to a church or whatever.
Though my respect for that sort of person is lessened by their attributing their possitivity so some sky daddy I can still hold them in esteem for the good they do, unlike the fanatic for who I have no respect or trust at all.
Agreed on the whole, yet sadly though, the many moderate theists do help to create an environment which shelters and provides swimming space for the fundamentalist.
@Fernapple ^^^ this. I think far too often in places like this we act as if 100% of theists are fundamentalist nut jobs, but the problem with liberal theists is that they do far too little to disavow / speak out against their fundamentalist brethren.
I have noted on occasion that even with liberals, if you don't at least affirm in vague principle, belief in their deity, they can get just as huffy as a fundamentalist. There just aren't as many triggers, but for them, principled unbelief is still a bridge too far. Maybe it is this that makes them treat fundamentalists as the problematic and muddled but still beloved crazy uncle in the basement, rather than the dangerous beast that they are -- to really critique them is to force them to examine their own beliefs.
And of course all this implies that fundamentalism is just liberal religion, taken to its "logical" extreme. And that's not comfortable for them, either.
Indeed -- one can make a good argument that modern liberal Christianity is just watered-down 19th century fundamentalism, which watering down is what modern fundamentalism is an abreaction to.
@Fernapple The worst of all however are neither fundamentalist nor moderates, they are the religious professionals, cold hearted clergy who know it is all a con but live on the fruits of the gullible and drive them like sheep or hunting dogs to enforce their will on the world in the name of a fiction.
@LenHazell53 Yes that is true, and I am not sorry to say that they at least do make my blood boil, and I have no forgiveness for them.
I don't have to respect the beliefs of a crazy person to accept them as a human being and I try not to go around poking the weirdos with a stick. If they try to force their madness upon me then that is another story all together and I will resist with all my strength because those people can be very dangerous indeed, just look at their history.
So long as they keep their beliefs out of the halls of my government and out of the public schools, I have no problem with them.
A lot of people believe some really bizzare unfounded bullshit. It’s not just limited to religion. If they try to force that crap on me, even after I’ve said I’m not interested, I just choose not to interact with them any more.