@tkcoy No, I didn’t check the references. I can simply look at my own community and see that it’s not church folks who are getting arrested for crimes. I’m sure you could do the same for where you live.

[pop.psu.edu]

Here’s a Penn State study that confirms a positive influence of religion.

@tkcoy You are the one making the wild and weird claim that churches are breeding grounds for crime, and your mind seems set in concrete. I’ve presented you with various studies refuting your claim, but you either dismiss those studies as not being up to your high scientific standards, or you refuse to even look at them. A Penn State study would surely be valid and if you won’t read that nothing will persuade you.

I tell you what—Since you are the one making the claim, how about YOU presenting some studies to back up that claim. I’ll be waiting for your evidence, and if none is forthcoming I can only assume you are blowing smoke.

@tkcoy First of all, I apologize for thinking you were the person who made the original post. I see now that you were simply refuting or criticizing the first article that I linked. The post seems to imply that churches are the cause of crime, and I don’t think that’s true.

So far as pitweb.pitzer, it is a rough draft for a proposed article from ten years ago. IMO it is a somewhat disorganized mishmash of data, with hundreds of references. The article seems to be written to defend atheism and secularism rather than to analyze the effects of religion on society. The last paragraph frankly acknowledges this:

“Finally, it is important to acknowledge that what is missing from this essay -- and what is clearly beyond its limits -- are satisfying explanations for the many important patterns that we find. Why are men more likely to be atheists than women? Why is education correlated with secularity? Why are rates of irreligion so high among Jews and Asian Americans? Why are secular people more supportive of homosexual rights than religious people? Why is violent crime most heavily concentrated in the most religious regions of the USA? Why do the most secular nations on earth enjoy the highest levels of gender equality? Alas, such questions abound. We can only hope that continued social scientific research into the nature of atheism and secularity can begin to provide some satisfying answers.”

I have no problem with the defense of atheism—I have never had a negative opinion of atheists in general, and if I had I certainly wouldn’t be on this site. But this article simply doesn’t address the issue of whether religion has a positive or negative effect on society.

Much ado is made over the fact that more highly religious states and countries have the highest crime rates, greatest poverty, lowest education, etc. But you can not, based on that data, conclude that religion CAUSES crime, poverty, etc. Yes, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana have somewhat higher crime rates, but to know why that is you would have to look at demographics. Who is committing those crimes? Is it devout church members? No it is not. It is a subculture of white trash and rowdy young Blacks. If you came from rural Georgia I’m sure you understand.

No one should think for a second that atheists are causing crime, poverty, etc. Atheists in general are educated analytical people who have the courage to escape religious dogma. You can not draw conclusions about the effects of religion based on such a select group.

Thanks for responding with that link. I’ll try to read the other one tomorrow.