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While contemplating the existence of Christian's god, a hobby, a came upon this thought. The Christian god by definition has no beginning or ending, infinite existence.
So, this Christian god decides to create man. When he creates man, he creates man into an infinite existence, with a free will and a divine plan to follow..Man is now responsible for his existence, and eventually goes either to heaver or hell for infinity.
My observation is this: the Christian god, who is not responsible for his infinite existence, creates man, but he makes man responsible for his now infinite existence, There sees, to me, to be some divine unfairness, in that realizartion.

Tomm 5 Mar 20
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11 comments

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1

According to current theories of physics, time does not exist. From a cosmic perspective “when” and “where” are meaningless. Therefore, any talk about creation is just empty gibberish. Even the concept of material existence is in question.

I agree that Christian Church dogma is ridiculous, but such dogma does nothing to negate the concept of a higher power, call it what you wish. In an ultimate sense we humans simply are not capable of grasping ultimate reality. Both belief and disbelief are of no consequence, except that both demonstrate blindness to the extent and implications of the mystery of existence.

I agree time doesn't exist; however the seeming existence of time, to me, is a construct of our human consciousness, which interprets aspects of reality as having beginning and endings, If you take a circle, it has no beginning or ending, but it can be interpreted segmented arcs. which are then seen, by the human mind as time-based.
There is no way of proving or disproving the existence of god, as we all know. It's only possible to logically demonstrate the non-logic in believing in god, especially a personal god, something I enjoy and find interesting. To me, nothing is more interesting than attempting to understand conscious existence.

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It's much worse than that. The Christian god is also claimed to be all knowing. Thus for each creation he HAS TO know the outcome of each life he has created. Free will be damned he created be in the knowledge that I would reject him and his salvation, thus condemning me to hell. Each of us is created a sinner and commanded to be good. Each of us made ill and commanded to be well.

Absolute correct. Also, consider in the christian god's mind, everyone that has been, is now, or ever will be, exists in his all-knowing mind. So, to me, logically, if the christian god creates with a free will and a diviner plan to follow, and he sends those of us who use our gifted free will to reject him, he sends us to hell. Is he not sending a part of himself to hell, when everyone has forever existed in his mind. Thus, how could there be the existence of a christian god having the capability of rejecting himself?

0

When man invents these crazy beings there’s always going to be problems with it.

Right. Crazy things result from crazy interpretations. The trick is to interpret correctly, which, for each of us, is our subjective understanding of objective reality. I like what Shakespeare said :"Nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so."

1

It’s interesting to me that when we anthropomorphize reality as a god, we say that god can’t be real, because it’s unfair, and it doesn’t make sense.
But after we dispense with the abstracted construction we call god, when life is unfair or unfathomable, we just say “That’s life!” The unfairness inherent in life rarely, for some reason, makes us abandon belief in reality. We just accept it.

skado Level 9 Mar 20, 2019

Interesting reply which I agree with, but when pointing out the inconsistencies within christianity, god must be assumed to be anthropomorphic because that's what christians believe god is. It always continues to amaze that seemingly intelligent individuals believe in a personal anthropomorphic god.

@Tomm
I understand your point, and essentially agree, but feel compelled to beg for a slight rephrasing, because clearly not all Christians make that assumption.

And I’m not just talking about the odd unknown outlier here but the likes of Spinoza or Hegel or a more recent iconic Christian, Paul Tillich who was often accused of being an atheist because of his apparently non-anthropomorphic descriptions of God. And the list is long.

It’s not just an obscure token idea in religious history, but one of the time honored perspectives that has existed since the beginning of rational thought, and is alive today in theologians such as Bart Ehrman and Karen Armstrong, and others. The late Joseph Campbell was quite famous for his depictions of and respect for non-literal representations of religious symbology, and so on.

I would say it’s not always easy to know for sure, from the outside of a person’s skull, whether their words refer to a personification of a concept or a literal interpretation of a symbol, because they themselves may not have found it necessary to make that distinction consciously.

And I would make the case that, in some sense, it may not make much difference, because no matter how we envision the totality of forces in the universe that are beyond our control, they inarguably do exist. They did create us, and we will be enfolded back into them when we die. We can complain about the unfairness of it if we wish, but a refusal to believe it doesn’t make it go away.

It’s just not historically accurate to speak of religious literalists as if they represent the entirety, or even the most important component of religious tradition, even if they might admittedly comprise a majority.

0

The apostle Paul, who can be quite intelligent at times, wrote that the clay has no right to complain to the potter about what he has made. I always thought that was a very weak argument.

0

This sounds like the deist perspective (of which the founders of the country believed). A god man man but then left this creation with a free will to deal with his own issues. No interference from the god.
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1

The unfairness is more that of infinite punishment for very finite offenses. But you are right, if we are accountable for our actions, why is it okay that god is not accountable for his?

Abrahamic theists will generally reply that god is sinless and in fact incapable of sin and so there is no need. But that begs the question: why would a "sinless" god arbitrarily declare various things "sinful" and create beings with alleged free will as well as a propensity to the things he forbids and then complain when they "sin"? God is all-powerful; he could either arbitrarily decide that whatever we do is okay, or in the alternative, make us incapable of doing anything he doesn't like. Either way, as an omnipotent being; his issues, his disappointment, his anger, his surprise with us are strictly HIS self-created problem.

We all agree that the idea of a infinite personal god punishing individuals for exercising the free will that god implanted within everyone, is absurdly ridiculous. This idea also occurred to me: if an infinite god is all-knowing, he knows which of his creations would go to heaven or hell. So, why didn't an infinite all-knowing god only create individuals whom he knew would accept his divine plan? .

2

In Genesis it states that god is talking to somebody and says Adam and Eve have to leave the Garden of Eden because they might eat from the Tree Of Life. If they eat from the Tree of Life after they ate from the Tree of Knowledge they would be just like them, God’s!
But the Bible scholars don’t even bring that up instead they claim it was original sin.
Original Sin wasn’t a thing until Christianity, and was dreamed by early father of the Christian Church to justify Jesus ‘ death.

Difficult to keep their stories straight when it's all a LIE.....

Here's the way I see it logically (if christianity has any validity). Everyone that god so-called created existed in his mind before being created, be cause he's all-knowing. Thus, created man is an extension of himself, and in that sense we are all an individualization of god.

2

All Abrahanic religion is unreasonable. Many others have their moments as well.

3

There are a lot of things about the christian god's people that is purposely unfair. Add this to the list. Abusive people always blame the victim for it being their fault they are being abused, beaten or murdered. "I love you, but this is for your own good..." "this hurts me more than it hurts you" "worship me in just the right way, or I'll punish you forever"

This is what I've noticed as well. The Christian God has all the traits of an abuser but on a grand scale. And yet you're required to worship him or be damned. Give me damnation, I say.

5

You don't need to dig so deep to decide that their god is unfair or just irrational.

JimG Level 8 Mar 20, 2019
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