I think the death penalty needs to be less buried in bureaucracy and ritual. If we are going to kill someone lets make it raw and quick. A guillotine or bullet to the back of the head. The cost I feel is all about pretending its not what it is.

@Quarm I'm saying the exact opposite:
If we decided to put someone to death, we'd have to know for sure the intracacies of the case. Were there good reasons why the crime was committed? Was there an underlying mental illness? Perhaps it was done in the blind rage of temporary passion? Did the perp's upbringing come into plsy?
OR was it done with premeditated calculation, the criminal knowing it's wrongfulness and doing it anyway, purely for self-serving purposes without regard for the rights of others? Did this wrongdoer see himself (or herself) as more important than everybody else, and thus free to do, well, anything, whatever the consequences for those of less importance?
All kinds of considerations are to be studied.
So to just to put someone to death quickly, to disguise the immorality of putting someone to death at all, defeats the purpose: to do justice.
Of course, if the consensus is, it is inherently immoral, then it shouldn't be done at all.
Your sarcasm is unbecoming.

@Storm1752 I was refering to what we do after all due diligence to prove guilt has been established. Once we are sure the killing is just it should be brutal and quick. Someone who chooses to be an executioner should have the conviction and certainty that what he is doing is just. It should not be buried under layers of illusion attempting to shield us from what it is. Immoral? Of course it is. Its horrific. Killing should never be considered moral or right. At its best it is necessary for the safety of us. But it still is not a good thing or something that should ever be seen as routine or easy.

@Storm1752 I agree in theory but then I think if progress is to be made in human conflict resolution we must face the subjective nature of morality. In war we commit mass murder quite often of civilians and call them causalities or acceptable losses. Irrelevant to the cause of the war or justification there are always innocent victims who if we are honest are murder victims. The firebombing of Tokyo and similar events were nothing less then atrocities and yet we consider WWII a clean war. (Not you specifically but that is its portrayal I think in popular lore.) My point is immorality of some kind is intrinsic to human action and the best thing we can do is mitigate it as much as possible, be honest about it and never bury it in sanitized language or ritual. We must face our demons or they will grow in the dark and in time destroy us.

@Quarm I happen to think a lot of immoral things happen in war. Hiroshima anf Nagasaki were immoral. Carpetbombing Dresden and other German cities was. Lots of things.What does thst have to do with the death penalty? Nothing.

I failed to see what good killing anyone would do?

Were Hitler and Stalin deserving, to name just two? If your answer is 'no,' then there's nothing to discuss.

@Storm1752 The entire Leadership ( Field Marshalls, Generals, etc, etc,) of the Nazi party, Stalin, Pol Pot, EVERY Pope and Catholic Priest, Cardinal/Bishop, etc, who either stayed silent or condoned the slaughter, rape and pillaging of native peoples throughout the centuries or was involved in the abuse of children or adults in the name of Religion throughout the centuries, any Ruler, King or Queen who sanctioned the same, ergo EVERYONE who has ever or will ever kill or cause pain and suffering to a victim/s with deliberate and or malicious forethought deserves imprisonment for the Term of His/her Natural Life in my opinion.

Brilliant post

@Amisja Thank you, I get lucky once in a while. I stole part of my argument from the lyrics of Elvis Costello's song Let Him Dangle, a song against the death penalty.

should we just take the word of the woman that her husband was abusive?

@callmedubious should we just take the word of any victim that a crime has been committed? Evidence is part of the nature of any crime.

It costs more to give someone the death penalty than life in prison. They have pointed this out for decades. Pay attention.

Happy?

@chazwin Extremely, what’s your point?

But then you have a problem with prisoners killing other prisoners and guards. How do you protect other persons from murderous prisoners? In the U.S., solitary confinement has a lot of critics as being inhumane and their is a move to abolish that...so how do you keep prisoners and guards safe if you cannot execute? Seems like quite a conundrum.

@dahermit well in USA people are so religious,( so don't take what god gave ) and you live in pure capitalism so jails are a way of creating business and jobs.

See and respond to my post above please.

My schizophrenic sister shot and killed a boyfriend in her 20s. She lamented often...that she was going to Hell, for killing that guy. She died at 76 last year! She was a tortured soul, (being witness to your only sister in this state, is another kind of lifelong living sadness).

Uauuu that´s a radical point a view. No mercy at all. This is one of the things I hate in US.So may innocent have been killed there

@Freedompath that is sad for both. So sorry

@margarida thank you.

@Freedompath I do hope that anyone at all that reads my remarks here know that I am responding to what is known as "the death penalty." I am in no way saying or trying to say that people who have killed someone should themselves be killed. There are always extenuating circumstances.

@DenoPenno I understood. Unless your sister or some other family member ends up where my sister did...it is hard to imagine the pain that I felt! A family lost their son, and my sister did it and could have been put down as well! And, we had made great efforts to find help for her and we were told, ‘until she does something, there is nothing that can be done,’ ...the system may pretty much work like this now.

@Freedompath So sorry to hear this

@Freedompath Would you be happy to have killed her yourself? If not why would you out that burden on us all as members of society?

@chazwin your questions makes no sense to me. I have never wanted to kill others...not even my sister! ...’out that as a burden to society,’...surely you know that ‘society,’ has inacted laws that we all must live by...and also the punishments when those laws are broken! Why would you blame me, as ‘putting the burden on society,’ for my schizophrenic sister? This makes no sense to me and I find it very insulting to boot!

@chazwin I am not putting any burdens on anyone.

@DenoPenno On the subject of burdens. If YOU want to bring back the death penalty, then you shall be placing that burden on others to do the killing.

@DenoPenno, @Freedompath No offense was meant. It was hypothetical. The case of your sister she deserves no punishment for her crime, crime though it was. I understand the burden of mental health as my own brother is also profoundly schizophrenic. Thankfully I live in a country where guns are not readily available, and so my brother's outbursts tended to do himself harm rather than others.