Adult Theist Mother VS Adult Atheist Son

It all starts from an awkward post on the mothers facebook news feed about how “muslims will take over the world & no one is paying attention.”

Mother - Well, that’s creepy. Where did this come from?

Son - (gets up from chair and checks feed.)

Son - It’s a post that your friend shared on her news feed.
Son - What the post says will never happen.

Mother - Don’t bet on it.

Son - I don’t think it will happen in your lifetime or my life time.

Mother - There are a lot of things that has happened in my life time that I didn’t think would happen.

Son - The majority of the country right now are of the Christian Faith.

Mother - what do you think of the youth today?

Son - depends on how you look at it. We do have Gen. X & Millennials.

Mother - Well yea, your best friend & friends’ wife ask for prayers, so yea. The thing I always tell people is, when you’re really get sick or you are going down hill or struggling; never have I seen people say “don’t pray for me.” They usually ask for people to pray from them, the ones they trust. Because they need faith, they need encouragement to make it. Cause you know, the Sharia Law is horrible. It’s a deviating, horrible law.

Son - Well, if you were to look at all the laws of the christian holy bible, there is a lot of gruesome things in there as well.

Mother - There is. But today, under grace… we don’t stone people.

Son - Well, if you were to actually follow the laws of the holy bible, you would.

Mother - We don’t violate women.

Son - Well, if you were to follow the laws of the holy bible, you would.

Mother - Now, that’s old testament, that’s not under grace. Under grace the rules change.

Son - Wait, where is the creation story?

Mother - In Genesis.

Son - Where is Genesis?

Mother - The first book of the bible.

Son - Which is what?

Mother - is the first book of the bible. You’re saying some of this stuff is still going on; under grace… The old ways, they were going to stone Mary.

Son - Yea, but you can’t say old covenant/new covenant, old testament/new testament. You can’t have the New without the old.

Mother - But the whole thing is a learning process. We are forgiving under grace.

Son - Do you follow the ten commandments?

Mother - Yes.

Son - The ten commandments are in the old testament.

Mother - Yes, but I am just saying that under grace, we don’t follow or do some of the things that happened in the old.

Son - So we should not follow the ten commandments because of grace of the new.

Mother - I didn’t say that.

Son - Then what are you saying. Cause you are surely making excuses and apologetics for stuff that happened back in the old test. times.

Mother - I’m just saying that some of the violence did happen, I agree. Look at the people that was mean to Moses. This is why I always tell people, don’t ever do things that will make god mad at you.

Son - But you can’t say, you are only going to follow the new, if you are following the ten commandments. Because the ten commandments are in the OLD TESTAMENT. So if you are saying there is a lot of bad stuff in the old and you are saying that we don’t follow that because we are under the new, then that means you don’t follow the old rules… the ten commandments are old rules.

Mother - under grace, you are forgiven and you know better than to do those things.

Son - But we don’t follow those rules anymore.

Mother - I didn’t say that. I said we don’t follow all those things that they did in the old because we are covered under grace. I didn’t say anything about not following the ten commandments.

Son - So do we follow the ten commandments?

Mother - Yes.

Son - The ten commandments are in the old testament, which is the old covenant, the old ways.

Mother - EXACTLY.

Son - But you said, we don’t follow that anymore, because we are saved by grace?

Mother - I never said that, you said that.

Son - You said, we don’t live by the old ways anymore.

Mother - We don’t follow the rules, that were like, the violent things.

Son - So how do you know which rules to follow?

Mother - Because under grace of the new testament, it tells you what to follow.

Son - Why are you talking about the new, when the ten commandments are in the old?

Mother - I didn’t say anything about… You keep saying the ten commandments… you are saying something that I am not saying. You’re switching it around and you are not gonna do that.

Son - Are you talking about rules? Rules to follow?

Mother - When you are under grace, you are forgiven…

Son - so then we don’t have to follow rules?

Mother - There are still rules.

Son- Ok, where are the rules?

Mother - The ten commandments.

Son - Ok, where are the ten commandments?

Mother - You are not listening to me. You are not listening.

Son - I am so listening.

Mother - No you’re not. You are making up your own story.

Son - ok, then run me through it again.

Mother - You are not listening, and every time we raise our voices…

Son - I’m not raising my voice. I’m listening. I’m having a dialogue conversation with you. I’m listening.

Mother - The old testament was set up first. In the old, there were things that god did not like, so he sent his son to get things squared away.

Son - So where did the Jesus died and save us from grace happen?

Mother - That’s in the new testament.

Son - Ok, I’m listening.

Mother - That’s really all I have to say about that.

Son - So god sends Jesus down in the new to save us with grace… and now we can wipe out the old?

Mother - no… NO…. The old is history. You read and learn from the old. If you take away history or the old and don’t learn from it, then you repeat the same thing.

Son - So then what rules do we follow?

Mother - You still follow the ten commandments.

Son - (Haha) Why? why would you follow the ten commandments; if god sends Jesus down to save us with grace, which could obliterate the old…

Mother - No it doesn’t, because before that time, the gentiles weren’t allowed to be saved.

Son - But they could be now because of the new?

Mother - Yes.

Son - which is why we follow the new, which you can disregard the old.

Mother - NO. I didn’t say that. You said that.

Son - I am saying that, cause you are explaining it that way.

Mother - Because of grace.

Son - What is grace?

Mother - grace is when Jesus died.

Son - What is grace? Define grace?

Mother - Well, when he died, his blood…

Son - no no no, not that. Define the word grace?

Mother - The forgiveness of our sins.

Son - So if we was to look that up in the dictionary, that is what it will say?

Mother - I don’t know???

Son - That’s what I am saying. People say the word grace and say faith but they don’t know what it really means. You’re just flinging that word as if it has meaning.

Mother - How would you know? You just read it like crazy and you just add everything you want too.

Son - No, I am actually trying to have a dialogue conversation with you. You have to define.

Mother - This is our level here. I am up here with faith, and you are down here. (level examples with hands)

Son - Well, we have had these mini conversations in the car before that faith is an unreliable pathway to truth.

Mother - I didn’t say that, you said that.

Son - Yea, I did. Because what you are saying is that you believe christianity on faith… and that post that was shared…….

Mother - So you walk out to your van everyday, do you not have faith that it will start?

Son - No. I have a reliable expectation based on data and research collected over years of driving, seeing & watching others drive, along with working on my van, that it started yesterday, and the day before. Now, do I have a 100% chance that it will start… No… but that is not on faith.

Mother - A child is dying in the hospital, and they say there is no chance. Yet people pray and the next day, the child is well. How do you explain that?

Son - Well, I would say as an honest answer, I don’t know. Even if we can not explain it at that moment in time, we might be able to in the future. We have years of different subjects we can research, we can discover, that we can experiment on, we can do things of collecting data to figure out “eventually” how that may of occurred. You don’t just say, I don’t know how this happened, therefore god. That’s what they called the god of the gaps fallacy. You don’t know what happened, you don’t have the knowledge, the experience, or the medical training, or the data to back up your claims, so you are automatically gonna say, it had to been some sort of supernatural, spiritual thing. That’s not how science and that’s not how you as medical professional LPN should do things. Someone has a pulse 30 minutes ago that is 90 and now in current time, they have a pulse of 140… WOW, they must be demon possessed.

Mother - Oh, I would never think that someone is possessed by demons.

Son - Right, because we have the medical knowledge to know that if someone is having a seizure, we know that they don’t need an exorcist. We know they are not demon possessed, we know it’s a mishap in the brain. we’ve grown since then with our medical knowledge and technology.

Mother - so, you’re so grown, you get so much information and you get so much data, that you are going to erase god?

Son - Well, for years people thought there was a god in the sky named Zeus that was throwing lighting bolts down. We know now how lighting works. We know how storms work. We know how the earth rotates, not just on its own axis, but how it rotates around the sun. So therefore, we can discredit Zeus.

Mother - Ultimately, I will get right down to the nitty gritty, where did this come from? Where did the earth come from? Where did the sky come from?

Son - Well, we have scientific, archeological, physics, astrophysics, and other data that point to models that show….

Mother - we just have a big boom theory? Who made that?

Son - The bigger question is not WHO, but WHY or HOW? Why are you assuming that it is a Whom?

Mother - No, I’m just saying, where did it all come from? There is nothing magical about this. If there is a big gas explosion from a truck, we know that there was a cause. What was the cause and what was the start of that cause? So with all the earth and the rotating, and water, floods, rain and thunder, and lighting, and child birth, and making of human beings, where did that come from? I didn’t say who, I said WHERE?

Son - Well, if you are talking about WHERE I came from… I came from my parents. My parents had sex, and a sperm and an egg came together. Cause you talked about child birth and human beings.

Mother - Yea, where did me and your dad come from?

Son - well, you came from your parents.

Mother - yea, and you can keep going back.

Son - Yea, you can keep having an infinite regression. So, know we could get into topics like evolution. Which evolution is a fact. Change over time is a fact.

Mother - Even with your evolution, which I don’t agree with….

Son - well if you look up the Silver fo….

Mother - Something started that. Even if you had this little amoeba and it split, where did it come from?

Son - well, first of all, I am not a Biogenies.

Mother - I’m just saying, where did it come from? It had to come from somewhere. Where did it come from? where? where? where?

Son - Ok, I am trying to have a dialogue conversation with you and you are just rambling on.

Mother - No, I am just saying, you don’t know how to answer.

Son - That is the smartest thing to say. Instead of jumping to conclusions….

Mother - cause you don’t know the answer…

Son - You don’t know the answer either.

Mother - No, I asked you.

Son - and I said that I am not a biogenesis.

Mother - So, see… that is your out. because you don’t have an answer.

Son - That is the smartest thing to say, instead of jumping to conclusions.

Mother - Exactly, you don’t have an answer. because it comes right down to it, those had to come from somewhere…. and that’s when you say god. EASY. EASY OUT.

Son - nope.
SILENCE. END OF CONVERSATION.