i have been suicidal and sometimes still feel that way, and there is nothing anyone can say or do. it just has to pass, and for some it doesn't. the more situational it is, the less likely it is to pass without effort (o if someone is suicidal out of desperation for being homeless, telling that person it will pass is stupid; helping the person get a home would be useful!) if it is totally internal, medical intervention may be called for. there is no one-size-fits-all solution, and sometimes there is no solution.

as for religious folks wondering why we don't kill ourselves, the answer is simple: this is the only life we have. i have heard us wondering why they don't kill themselves since they are so eager to go to heaven!

g

"I have heard some religious people ask why Atheists just don't kill themselves, if they don't really believe in god. As if not having a belief in a god immediately means not having any reason to live."

I would counter with "Why don't theists just commit suicide so their eternity of delirious happiness at God's side can begin that much sooner?" Makes more sense for them to want to die as soon as possible since they expect a paradise awaits them.

I did not read your whole rambling post. Good Grief! However, on the topic of suicide, it must be taken in context. If someone who is permanently disabled, etc., wishes to end it, it is their human right. Considering that I am elderly (76 in two months), had Cancer that could very well return. If it does, I may just opt to give myself a better death (Helium gas), than to go through a longer process of possible pain and weakness. So, if I decided to "get off the bus", there is nothing anyone could say to me that would dissuade me from doing so. Hell, I'm going to die anyway, so no argument would strike me as logical.

Ironically, the "why don't you kill yourself right now" argument actually makes a lot more sense for a conventional fundamentalist Christian. If this life is a veil of tears and we look forward to rejoicing at being reunited in heaven with our loved ones, then why not cut to the chase and ditch this joint?

People kill themselves because they're in emotional and/or mental and/or physical pain that they feel is unresolvable and they see no other way to stop the pain. They do that whether or not they are believers. That actually has nothing in particular to do with it. Some Christians like to pretend that "real" Christians don't have such issues, but they are full of horseshit. The most you can say in favor of Christianity as an influence on the decision is that it will encourage people to suffer longer for fear of divine displeasure or because of the stigma for their survivors. But that is not a solution to the impulse, it is just a way to keep a lid on it a bit longer.

The world is not and cannot actually be unfair or unjust unless you have the notion that life or the world or god or existence owes you something. If on the other hand as I believe to be the case it does not owe you anything whatsoever, then you cannot be cheated out of anything.

More to the point is that life is frequently painful and difficult. But it can also come with privilege, opportunity and enjoyment. It has been my consistent experience and observation that we are wired to pay way more attention to the slightest frustration or discomfort than to even the largest boons that come our way. This is how natural selection wired us -- assume something is threatening, run and ask questions later, and you are more likely to live to be embarrassed another day.

So the solution is to train your mind to pay more attention to things that produce contentment and enjoyment, and to be very clear about your goals and make sure those goals are realistic and attainable rather than baroque and grandiose and impractical (notice I didn't even use the word "happiness" in this statement). This is not being a Pollyanna, it is simply compensating for a weakness in your mental structure that predisposes you to negativity and to brooding over things to no good purpose.

Always ask yourself, "to what purpose, or to what end, is this train of thought?" and ruthlessly turn away from every thought that has no purpose, to every call to action where it's not actually actionable. You will be surprised to find that a lot of the stuff you devote all sorts of time to fretting about is actually a lot of nothing. You have very little control over life, and to bemoan that is to cede what control and self-determination you do have.

Well, that was a good ‘get it off your chest’ moment. I’m glad you were able to vent because keeping that shit in just creates further problems.

I have experienced depression for around 20 years now but my meds work well. When I forget to to take them I can feel the dark cloud as if another person is taking over. Depression is not to be stigmatised and it is a chemical condition which medications can address. Some of the New Age brigade will tell you to think positively to be able to remove medication. Probably not the best solution.

I do understand the suicide idea. Not that I ever would because I am far too arrogant for that, but I have lost jobs in the past, my two dogs, financial difficulties and broken relationships. They all take their toll but I have discovered you do get the other side of these situations. Although not considering suicide I did consider that if I didn’t wake up, that would be fine. Not a suicidal tendency but a despondent view of the prevailing circumstances.

I used to think that we should all come with a Killswitch as standard to employ when we see fit, but I recognise now that we need to grow through these situations rather than become defeated by them.

There is life on the other side of these situations, it’s just riding out the white water until the calm stream picks you up again.

All the best.

There are various studies that indicate that religiosity tends to prevent suicide in western societies but not in the Far East.

[ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Various reasons are offered for the discrepancy.

People obviously are not rational, but from a strictly rational viewpoint you would think that a religious person would not be very concerned with the fate of his body—after all, heaven is supposedly awaiting. However, in western society suicide is looked upon with shame and horror, and Christian Churches teach that suicide is a sin. In Eastern countries suicide is often viewed as an honorable and courageous act.

As for me, when the end of life is near, if I am in pain I don’t think I would hesitate to pull the plug. In the interim I consider every moment of conscious awareness to be a joyous and glorious unfathomable miracle of untold value. Maybe if I concentrate on this truth rather than wallowing in negative, untrue and judgmental thoughts I will not become angry, depressed, sick or suicidal.

It is important IMO not to allow the issue to dominate us. If someone chooses to die we can not but accept that decision with love and respect, and move forward with our lives.

I’ve been suffering with depression for a long time and spent a good long while with suicidal ideations every day. I had become a nonbeliever by that point already but that had little or nothing to do with my depression. I had no fears relating to god and a lot of days the only convincing reason I could come up with to keep going was how sad it would make my sister. I don’t think we owe it to anyone in particular to keep going if we are inconsolably miserable and I’ll never call it the easy way out or say it’s cowardly but I’ll never recommend it either. No matter how long you’ve been feeling a certain way it can turn out to be temporary and we should all be careful not to employ permanent solutions to temporary problems in this case. Especially if you think this is all there is; nothingness can wait. It’ll happen to us all soon enough.

I’ve become a cheerful nihilist. Ultimately I’m way less likely to seriously contemplate suicide than ever now that I’m more tenably aware of my beliefs. I know how unlikely life is, how strange it is for any of us to be anything at all, and how short life is in the long run. I’ve suffered through this much of it and it was gone in the blink of an eye. I’ve got 2 blinks left at most. If any of it at all turns out to be good then the whole miserable lot of it will feel too short. If it all winds up being miserable then it’ll feel a little longer but not much. No one is guaranteed anything and being aware of the random chaotic nature of the universe makes life seem precious for its own sake. It’s a strange trip n you only get to consciously take it once, so let the bad and weird and everything else wash over you. Might as well experience it and see what it has to offer, you’re not gettin your ticket price back in the end either way.

I think adults should be free to do with their lives as they see fit.
If they want to end their lives, no one should interfere.
Suicide used to be considered an "honorable" end, back in ancient times.
It wasn't until the advent of the Abrahamic religions that society started
looking down upon it, and criminalizing it (which is stupid and makes no sense).

If someone wants to end their life, for whatever reason, I say let them.
As long as they aren't taking anyone else with them, let 'em go.

If you don't believe in the afterlife, then the choice is to live in the here and now of whatever life and time you have. If anything, being agnostic has given me more reason to live fully and unfettered by norms and rules that others have created to control behavior.

Depression and futility that your life is meaningless is common, so the key is to find that spark that makes a difference not necessarily for the entire the world, but to just one person. Obviously, depression is not fixed by mental focus...medications do help...everything else is an add on...stepping outside yourself to better the life of others, enriching people with your own views, comments, art, music, etc.

You have to find meaning for yourself and not rely on others to bring you happiness and joy...

I would never commit suicide because it is a finality to me when I don't believe there is anything else "after"...

You are correct: we don't deal with the sense of hopelessness, loneliness, lack of love and validity as a human being...but there are many places where help of a non-religious kind can be found

I have zero medical education but my understanding is that depression is not related to all to "having a bad day", or traumatic life events but is instead a chemical abnormality.
Many people at the height of personal wealth and fame have been it's victim. There was nothing wrong with their life; there was something wrong with their brain.

My thoughts on the matter, having prosecuted the assisted suicide cases of Dr. Jack Kevorkian, is that I didnt ask to be here and I get to leave whenever I want. That said, it's a hardship on family and friends and not something to be taken lightly. On the other hand, assisted suicide cannot be regulated without taking the decision out of the person's hands. So it's no longer your decision. Doctors are supposed to preserve life not kill. Assisted suicide turns their profession on its head. Additionally, EVERYONE has the same right to die...not just people with a made up six months to live. Any law that doesnt grant it to all, in my opinion, violates the equal protection clause. Then there are the people in the Netherlands where assisted suicide wasnt prosecuted who wore necklaces in the hospital saying "don't kill me" because 60% were killed without consent. Wayyyyyy too many problems regulating assisted suicide...the only way you really know if someone wants to die is if they do it themselves. Then the argument is "what if they can't do it themselves?" Everyone can stop eating...you may not like how you have to die but everyone can. Last but not least is the old, "we treat our animals better." Forgetting that animals can't commit suicide and need out help. You can search for previous posts of mine on the subject and await the trash talking that I have just generated by people who think differently but didnt spend a year and a half of intensive study on the issue.

Clinical depression is a serious condition, a. mental distubance with no easy cure. Some kinds of depression cycle, people go in and out of it. Physically it appears to be due to hormones being out of balance.

I think a lot of morality, what one ought to do or not do, is based on the "do no harm principal'. It is not right to harm anyone (to the extent that is possible). If so then harming one's self is also wrong, not moral.

it must be horrible for a religious person to be struck down with a catastrophic disease. even worse when it happens to a child in a religious family. i really don't know how they cope. does remind me of the old song: "everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die". the conflicts they endure must be terrible.
if you're young & healthy, although it sounds trite, you need to get a life. you need interests that will make you want to get out of bed in the morning. if your job sucks then you need to consider finding something that will give you some satisfaction. failing that, just put the hours in, cash the cheques & find a hobby or other activities that you can enjoy.
most ppl, especially when they get older & things start to go wrong with their health think about suicide. if one of my cancers comes back i'm quite sure i'll make my final exit without having to go thru all the chemo & shit. i'm able to golf several times a week with my bad hip which i enjoy. and then there are the craft beers, good whiskey & open oven pizza which i also enjoy. even so there are days when i feel a powerful urge to just exit. but, then, i've been a diagnosed depressive with anxiety disorders for 1/2 a century.
you're young and you don't know what this life has in store for you. it's a mystery that may have some exciting rewarding times in your future.

You've got me thinking....is the suicide rate higher amongst non-believers than believers? Not really sure how that information would be collected, but it's a piece of missing information that might be helpful.

And I totally agree that we don't get to the core issues regarding why suicide happens. Suicide runs in my Mom's side of the family, with it's most recent victim being my nephew at age twenty-five in 2014. The grief his mother has endured, I mean... Nothing compares to it. I wish suicide was preventable.

Your writing is excellent, by the way.

Someone told me that If you don't believe in god that you have no reason to live, and I told them that if they truly believed in an eternal afterlife that they should go lion hunting with a whiffle ball bat and claim their eternal reward.

Witty remarks aside, the only possible advice I can give is that you need to see your depression as a source of strength rather than shackles. If you can deal with soul crushing depression, thoughts of suicide, and total loss of motivation, then you can deal with anything. You can't get strong without weights and exercise.

I don't commit suicide for the same reason I don't drink DRANO. I don't want to die just yet. If I do get to the point, and believe Me, I've been close, where life is more pain than it's worth, I'm quite intelligent enough to find a way to do it relatively painlessly and quietly.

I know exactly how you feel..

No.1 if there is an afterlife and it's full of believers I'd rather live as long as possible so I don't get to go there no.2 there's lots of reasons to live you just have to find your own one

I know you have made this lengthy for a reason but perhaps non-believers do not kill themselves because they enjoy their lives. I would tend to think that if you are in a hurry to go to heaven you would kill yourself. As for suicide there are probably many reasons to do it, but so far I have not been confronted with any that make sense to me.

I don't remember the mindset that lead me to try to kill myself. I just know it was very different from my mindset today. You're not yourself and it'll take a lot more than a Snickers to solve the problem. I think the religious condemnation came from the idea that you rejected the gift of life God gave you so what's the point in you getting a resurrection. I think that old idea still has traction in my old religion, the Jehovah's Witnesses. That was in the 80s and 90s. Maybe it's different now.

There are too many people on the planet. Those who are driven by their internal motivation to leave the here-and-now should not be prevented from exercising their right to life or not.

And::: I have the idea that those who are "brought back" from death are inhabited with a different "soul." They are not who they were before the action.