No thanks... No need to read it... I'm having a girl...

@Cutiebeauty And her brother in the future? I seem to remember you wanting a football team.

@Cutiebeauty Maintaining culpable ignorance?

@FrayedBear "there's a Time and place for everything". Right now, I'm pregnant with a girl so I'm focused on raising a girl not a boy... If and when I have a boy, I'll research what is necessary for raising a boy.. it's called setting priorities and time management...

@Cutiebeauty Sadly you have already expressed your beliefs in the cause of influencing others to pursue your expressed inclination to barbarity.
Prior to becoming a parent I always expressed the Nordic view that if the child that I fathered was born with Down's Syndrome the best thing was infanticide but as that was & is illegal adoption would have to do. After my daughter's premature birth and her abandonment by her mother you would not believe the devotion I had to maintaining and making her life worth living in the face of a prognosis of an equal probability of her living or dying.
When you have become a mother, and I hope that it all goes well for the two of you, I hope that you will understand.

@FrayedBear what's equally sad is your failure to properly respond to my last comment.. instead you bring up something we discussed eons ago....and which has nothing to do with having a girl...

@Cutiebeauty No sadness is your lack of grasp of principles. Trying seeing the forest not the tree.

@FrayedBear "please read this link and bear it in mind if you have a son.". Your words, not mind...
My words were... I'm having a girl... No need right now.....
End of conversation as far as I'm concerned... But you have some sort of need to push your agenda on me or others... I'm having a girl... A girl... Not a boy... Don't you know the difference? I don't have time to take up your agenda... Like I said above... If and when I have a boy, I'll do the research... I'm not dismissing it...

Quite agreed.

Parents have to make that decision for their child. Why should I feed my child meat, maybe he's going to grow up and want to be a vegetarian is that also abuse?

@Kojaksmom perfect answer! People are taking consent to ridiculous levels.. and they think themselves intelligent in doing it...

@Cutiebeauty I think you're right.

Poor hygiene is not a reason for mass surgery. On the same basis, women would have their breasts removed to prevent breast cancer.
I wasn't aware that Muslims also circumcise.
I wonder how many over the centuries, in the Middle East, have died as a result of this mass sacrifice to God or in the name of preventing future problems caused by poor hygiene.
Nowadays the problem can also be caused as a side effect of certain drugs given to ameliorate or cure other illnesses.
The Poms along with the French were always renowned for their lack of cleanliness - the shower being a recent sanitary addition in the UK and in fact I remember Alistair Hulett only 20 years ago campaigning against the closure of public baths in Glasgow as few of the tenement houses there had bathrooms.

@FrayedBear Poor hygiene is due to ignorance or laziness. Penile cancer can be caused by poor hygiene so there is a direct correlation.

@Moravian Quite agree it is not however a reason for mass surgery like mass vaccination. Cancer is not infectious. And in response to the Jewish argument that circumcised men are less likely to result in their partners contracting Cervical cancer my response is "don't let your bloke damage your cervix with his long penis and if if you are worried about its cleanliness you can take responsibility and wash it clean".

@FrayedBear I'm on your side. I am totally against circumcision of boys. I was just pointing out that poor hygiene can cause problems.

There is no unequivocal evidence that links a higher risk of cancer with the existence of a foreskin.
The only way to prevent penis cancer is to remove the penis.

@chazwin" Risk factors of penile cancer include aging, smoking, the presence of human papillomavirus (HPV) and poor personal hygiene."

Yes there is
.

@Moravian People without foreskins can have dirty cocks, and those with them can have clean cocks. It's more about what you do with them, and where and when you stick them in dirty holes, People with foreskins have more, and better sex; those without have less. That is probably why there is a tiny correlation.

@chazwin We seem to be at cross purposes here. I am totally against circumcision but there is a correlation between poor hygiene and penile cancer.
Read it for yourself
[cancer.org]

@Moravian Quote. the risk of penile cancer is low even among uncircumcised men.

@chazwin thankfully

@chazwin penile cancer is very rare but there has never been a circumcised man to be diagnosed with it.

@Moravian did you know that 80% of all sexually active humans have or have had HPV?almost everyone in the US has herpes simplex 1.

@Kojaksmom You seem very sure about that.

@Kojaksmom I had cold sores when I was about 8 year old and I was certainly not sexually active then.

@Moravian I used to volunteer at Planned Parenthood . The human papillomavirus is so common almost all sexually active people have/had it . There are literally millions and millions of new cases each year . Most of these people test positive when they're first exposed, but will test negative once the virus is absorbed by the body. some have real problems from it.I hear most of us pick up herpes simplex 1 in daycare and kindergarten. I've never had a cold sore a day in my life but yeah I tested positive.

@Kojaksmom Girls in in the UK are now offered the HPV vaccine from the age of 12 so hopefully it will eventually die out. As far as I am aware there is no vaccine for herpes simplex

@Moravian there are a lot of strands of HPV. Most of the time our own immune systems are able to control it. Some types are very nasty and cause warts and cancers. with a whopping 80% of sexually active people with it its unlikely that it's going away for good.

@Kojaksmom [capitalfm.com]

It has been very successful in Scotland

Parental peer pressure - "look what happened to the Jews in Germany - make little boys all look the same so they cannot be discriminated against"?
Besides which how can you ask a girl to go down on an uncircumcised penis? It might have smegma underneath the foreskin!

@FrayedBear Ever heard of soap?

@chazwin And I've been using it ever since my foreskin was capable of retracting. What is the message that you are trying to make to me?

Do you not understand that I commiserate with you over your loss and am one of the few people in the world who have actively campaigned to prevent it from happening to more boys without their adult consent?

@FrayedBear See !y latest comments. If foreskin removal were a good idea,it could wait for informed consent.

@chazwin you don't have a crystal ball to look into. perhaps you would have needed a far more serious circumcision as an adult because of foreskin problems. Is that really the most important attribute of what makes a man a man a foreskin? I've been with men who were uncircumcised, and They've never known anything else so they have zero opinion of their preference. The exact same thing could be said for men who are circumcised. The people on the agnostics Forum are known to be more science oriented. The medical community has established that there are benefits to circumcision. It is up to parents to make a decision based on their son's health. Circumcised men have a much easier time with hygiene, they are not as prone to getting infections and some forms of sexually transmitted diseases.

Not so very long age. Hitchens in his book God is Not Great talks about a living NY rabbi, a repeat offender who has cause the death of babies from herpes

@chazwin Has Iceland found how to keep the Jewish diaspora moving?
[rightsinfo.org]

@chazwin I also could find no mention of the bill after April 2018. Does anyone know what happened?

The first time I heard of this 'practice' among the ultra orthodox I was grossed out. How fucking stupid can you get? damn! Thank mothers would allow it and fathers go along with it is crazy. I know they are so insulated from the real world, as are the Amish but still SMH.

Is ignorance bliss or cognitive dissonance?

[thefreedictionary.com]

And you were a lucky one. I'm led to believe that 2 out of 6000 do not live.

@FrayedBear so , are you telling another man that he's damaged and worthless? I've come to believe the anti-circumcision crowd is very similar to the anti-vax crowd. There is indeed a clash between the medical community and the anti-vax and anti-circumcision crowd. 2012 was very recently, and that's when many health organizations have declared that when circumcision is performed under sterile conditions by medical personnel the benefits outweigh the risks.

@Kojaksmom No you are. I'm telling him that he was betrayed by his parents. You women possibly place greater emphasis on progenation than men do but your selfish self protection from your own ignorance at times is unbelievable. Have you answered my question as to whether you have had your dog circumcised in order to enhance its life and protect bitches?

@FrayedBear every single human that walks on the face of the Earth has been betrayed by their parents. Parents do not own their children, we just have to make the best decisions that we can and often times they are wrong. There is zero evidence that circumcision ruins a man's sex life makes him impotent. I don't breed, but if I did have a son I would have him circumcised. After reading the benefits and listening to the scientific Community I believe it is the best choice. And as far as my dog , its worse,I had my dog completely neutered. He's not a male dog anymore theoretically he's an it. I suppose that is animal abuse to you because I could be letting him roam the neighborhood and f*** every stray dog that he could find, and cause massive amounts of dogs that are going to have to be euthanized. Perhaps that's the kind of life that he would prefer, but it's not Humane to both him and other dogs.

@Kojaksmom You have said it.

@FrayedBear you will never admit that decades and Decades of scientific evidence points that there are benefits to circumcision.. the anti-vaxxers also believe that there is zero scientific evidence that vaccinations prevent disease

@Kojaksmom Stop trying to muddy the water with anti vaxxers.
As for those advocating it, most are severely compromised for lack of independence. Not too long ago their was a huge demand for baby foreskin to grow skin for grafting onto burns. A very strong reason for advocating for continuation of the barbaric act of circumcision.
We both know that the monetary profits from human spare parts has created a billion dollar + industry worldwide, just as peddling pharmaceuticals has led to improper practice of doctors prescribing for commission not patient benefit.
The Jewish religion has and continues to fight tooth and nail against all attempts to criminalise male infant circumcision. These all point to biased and false research findings.

Why are you such a control freak that you cannot let male children grow up and then make the informed adult decision that for their own health and the benefit of women they be circumcised when adult?
Is it because you wish to perpetrate your misandry and psychological illness onto helpless male children?
The majority of male children have no problem with not being circumcised. In adulthood the majority of men have no problem with not being circumcised. The only one's with a problem are 1. women who infect far more people than women infect men 2. Religious barbarians claiming it as integral and necessary to their religion 3. Obsessive compulsive control freaks affecting others in order to assuage the symptoms of their illness. 4. Those financially benefitting by arguing for infant and childhood circumcision.

I suggest that women have now so corrupted the thinking of millennials, turning them into snowflakes, that I suspect many males will flock to be circumcised simply to shut you up, just as many will flock to religion for the same stupidity.

@FrayedBear some countries have banned it. Men who need to have circumcisions later in life for medical reasons have to suffer for a very long time because of it. There are two sides to every story. Good luck in your foreskin worship!

@Kojaksmom Which countries please? I must write and congratulate them.
I do not need luck just medicines, women and civilised people who do not effect the smooth retraction of my foreskin. The hygiene I will continue to look after as I have for the last 6 decades.
And why would I worship it? The penis is not necessary for orgasm or procreation.

@FrayedBear Australia, Iceland, Norway and Sweden seem to be coming close to such legislation. Banning circumcision means taking away the parents right to make an informed decision based on medical facts. Next we won't be able to feed our children because they cannot give consent about what they want to eat because it's their bodies that are being nourished.

@Kojaksmom News to me. And you now state that it has not been enacted. I know from personal correspondence that 25 years ago Australia was very barbaric and would not make circumcision a criminal act as it did female mutilation. The pathetic excuse that I was given being that fgm was the removal of an important organ whereas male circumcision only involved the removal of skin. When I pointed out that skin is the biggest of the human organs they, like the puerile minds on here who block because they do not like contrary opinion, ceased to communicate with me.

@FrayedBear female genital mutilation involves removing the clitoris. Without the clitoris no female will ever be able to achieve orgasm at all. An interesting fact is The clitoris is literally the only part of the human body ,male or female, that was made for sexual pleasure ONLY. well you're actually on the winning side of the battle. If you don't want to circumcise a male child you have every right to not to. I don't push circumcision, I simply would choose it for my son because of medical reasons and medical facts. Keep in mind that I am not a breeder.

@Kojaksmom Again I dispute your belief /knowledge on clitoridectomy.
If males can achieve orgasm without a penis why can females not do likewise without a clitoris. The clitoris I read is merely like the tip of the iceberg - the bulk of the sensory organ spreading below through all the sensitive vaginal and anal spots. As I think I have mentioned before if you wish you can have the tip of your nose, your nostrils or your ears react like a clitoris.