I for one NEVER pay the full bill for anything. I want a woman is is able and capable to take care of herself, secure and not the princess looking for a knight to save her. "I look after me and you look after you and together we meet as equals." Don't fall for paying and groveling expecting anything in return, DEMAND equality from the start. I am not speaking of sex but every emotional and temporal need.

Well that's very flattering, although because of my age, I think I am pretty much on an even playing field with most people. I have found that people, including men are attracted to vibrant, happy, and exuberant people. None of the couples I know are extraordinary looking. We are all in our fifties. I would be perfectly happy with someone who was ordinary looking! My major concern is personality, and intelligence. To me, the thought of being intimate with a stupid ignorant person is repulsive. I appreciate what you are saying, but I don't think that's it. I think some people just lack opportunity because they are so different than the mainstream. Sometimes people like that are really funny in an off beat way and are lucky enough to attract and find someone who suits and understands them. Either that or they are so typical and common that they can be with practically anyone. Still, sometimes things in relationship's aren't what they seem. I was propositioned by a guy who, it turns out, is engaged. She has no idea, but in the end, oblivious women like that still get the ring, the house, and the man. Relationships evade me because I don't play the game. Also the fact that about 80-90% of people deep down think I'm going to hell eliminates alot of dating possibilities.

You've been seeing the wrong women. I think any relationship worth having consists of both partners contributing.

Sounds like you've been exposed to some real winners ...

Thanks for all the ideas, yes maybe I am a little bitter , but only because I've been taught to be, and I didn't make the post because I'm sick of making the efforts, im sick of making the efforts alone, I want to step out of 1957, you think all the women I choose are the problem, as if I just take my choice of who I want to date, lol I've got to try with who will have me, maybe I only attract lame, time wasting women? What else do I have to go by on my judgements?

Seems like you've reduced relationships to nothing more than early stage dating there. You are aware that marriages, common-law relationships and other LTRs where this type of thing is not common exist, right?

This is genetic stuff. We do not have control. None of us. Learning about our evo developments and probable behaviors can help. But demanding that we change is just fucking stupid.

I don’t think the guy has to do jack shit.. If she’s interested, she can tag along. If some formalities or rituals are no longer relevant, then none of them should be. If two people are right for each other, it’ll work.

If you leave 1957 you will find that most of that has changed. If you don't want to pay for a date, look for women who are willing to go dutch. If you don't want to go anywhere to meet a woman, only date local. If you don't like making all the plans (no need for you to do that, by the way), then ask the woman what SHE would like to do. Or perhaps engage in some introspection as to why you resent women as much as you seem to.

Hmm...why would women want to take the risk of meeting a strange man who could endanger her, give up her evening plans just to meet him, and on top of that..PAY for it? NO thanks. The man can take the risks and the woman can evaluate him to see if he actually cares about her or is only trying to seduce her ASAP, thus wasting her time.

Why should she risk pregnancy/STDs for someone who doesn't even care what books she likes to read or what her interests are?

If a man ever asked me to pay for a meal after inviting me to dinner, I'd just walk out, since I'd have driven my OWN car to the redezvous place. I'm perfectly happy as a single and a man would have to convince me otherwise.

There are plenty of people of both sexes that make little effort...sometimes the effort is greater one way or the other for a bunch of reasons, like money, opportunity, time, etc.

I have paid for all of the above and have had all of the above paid by the man as well...

Hope you experience it all to find the right person for you...

Let her take initiative but don't pay Dutch treat if she insists you pay get out of there unless it's a real date but be careful

Just a thought... you sound a bit bitter.

Gone are the days when a man drives a relationship. It’s so much more fun to make plans together. Find commonalities to build a relationship on. It’s better to go dutch, that way a woman doesn’t feel pressured.

Perhaps reevaluate the kind of women you’re dating

Actually, I have been thinking about this topic lately. What I have found, as a woman is that men seem to value superficial things, like looks, youth, and sex much more than personality, or intelligence. When I was really young, I fantasized about meeting someone with whom I could share my innermost thoughts, and be appreciated for all of my good qualities, such as intelligence, truthfulness, uniqueness, etc. etc... But what I actually experienced is that men couldn't give a damn about anything other than whether or not they think you are sexually appealing. Until men appreciate women for their other redeeming qualities, they will continue to seek out an arrangement such as you described.