@Renickulous You out renickuloused yourself with that stupid comparison.

@Renickulous, LOL, wow, SO many things wrong with your argument.

First, trans people are under no delusion, they don't deny they have a body of different anatomy. They can distinguish real from unreal. Just because you don't experience it....doesn't make it not real!

Second, the voices are real! They aren't audible, but they are absolutely real to the schizophreniac, since their brain is producing the signals. Are you saying the schizophrenic is lying to us about hearing voices? No, I think you meant to say that the voices don't belong to real people, real in the sense of existence. So your analogy breaks down with trans people...they aren't experiencing an unreal person. Their experience and their bodies both are real. Thus, their mental and physical states are both valid. You don't get to decide that one or the other is correct. Only the individual experiencing it get to decide whether to change their body or change their mind. Not you.

Third, would you give the same argument for gay people? Are you saying gay or bisexual people suffering from a delusion?

Fourth, don't tout science as if it is the final truth. Science can be wrong. The DSM modifies and updates it's findings every few years. It currently labels sexual and gender identity as disorder, even though biological science have long identified such behavior in nature ubiquitously. There is clear culturally and religious bias being applied, and it is tainting the psychological sciences right now. There is very little basis on the neurological and biological origin. It's all conjecture and labeling of what a small group decide is right and wrong. And they have been quite wrong on a lot of things. BTW there is a strong push by religious people to classify Atheism as a mental disorder. So be very careful how you apply your Science. It can and will be wrong.

Fifth, there is absolutely nothing in Atheism about trans people! You are behaving like an illogical religious person, bringing your own flawed assumptions and thinking and trying support it using established ideas that have nothing to do with it. I think that is a clear sign you have left logic and reason behind.

Sixth, you don't know anything about the trans experience personally, so maybe you shouldn't make the error of thinking that your understand their reality. How about we let trans people have the freedom to explore, investigate, and debate the nature of their existence since neither of us can directly experience it.

How about we just give them a chance to go on their own unique journey with our support and friendship instead of denying the nature of their existence?

@Renickulous

Point 1 has no bearing on the argument. We arent arguing proper labels.

Point 2. FMRI has been used to show that auditory and visual pathways light up during hallucinations.

3. Both are "feels" - both are products of the mind. Why treat one as a delusion? Whats your basis of discriminating against trans people based on thinking their feelings are invalid just because you claim it so?

4. Fine: The specific issue is that you are misusing the scientific accuracy in establishing sex (body, chromosomes) as a means of implicitly defining someones gender (which is a product of the mind - how they feel or self identify). That is an incorrect use of science by you to attempt to discriminate against trans people.

5. As I said, you made the mistake of implying Atheism has standards that define sex. And that Atheism implicity accepts Science. Neither of those claims is true. Showing that you are wrong is not a character attack.

6. Thats is not argument from authority. You made claims about transpeople "feelings". I deny that you can make any claim about trans people "feelings" without actually being trans. And yes - you can't know how a slave feels without being a slave, or how war feels without being in war! Real experience counts, and no amount of reasoning can replace that. You have no ecperience concerning being a trans person.
   Considering that, you claims about the invalidity of trans "feelings" are duly ignored.