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So many everyday stories from America here about religion being so traumatic in people's personal lives. When someone leaves a religion the stories usually seem like escaping from a cult or sect that is out to wreak vengeance on the escapee. Or, if you're safe after escaping, wanting to "come out" as anti-theist to your former fellow believers and worried about hurting them or being officially excommunicated -- something I thought had gone out with the Spanish Inquisition. Whatever happened to the tradition of cheerfully lapsed Catholics? And the Church of England custom where you just turn up at church for funerals? Religion used to be so easygoing. Why do you have to take a "stance" on something that doesn't exist? It's as if you're creating a whole new religious belief for yourself.

Garbonza 6 May 19
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11 comments

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1

I guess that is a danger--like getting religious conviction against religion. It's so hard escaping the conditioning. Those of us who leave feel like we have deserted our loved one.

2

My personal view of religion is that most of it is a cult. People that do not like one cult move on to another cult. That is why there are so many religious denominations.

1

I live in a world surrounded by religious people.
normally I'm the lone atheist what is careful not to voice his beliefs too loud and around the wrong people. but when I look at the way people live their actual day-to-day lives.
they live like a atheist worshipping at the Temple of football praise the almighty dollar. or keeping themselves so busy they don't have time to think about the internal questions

3

It is often said that Islam needs an enlightenment a bit like the European enlightenment of the 17th and 18th century. It sounds like the USA needs one as well.

Yes we do. However, this attitude exists in places I have lived. Denver, Austin, and Taos were like that. l am sure it exists in other places. Other than Utah I have found the West has that attitude.

2

I see that as well. the effect that a religious upbringing has on some people seems to be very dramatic.
There seems to be a longing to cling on to the artificial "comfort" the religion gives.

2

No anger. No concern. I found I was unable to accept what was presented, though admittedly I hung around for a few years after reaching my conclusion, then casually announced my departure. Several were visibly shaken and some said I'd be back, that no one can ignore the truth for long. I lost some relatives and a few friends, but we were not even close to the same chapter, let alone the same page, so it didn't matter that much. We, I think, were in different books.

It takes some courage alright to break away. In this country the native Maori population is more or less wedded to forms of Christianity, though not normally Bible-bangers. I've had Pacific Island women friends and male acquaintances who were shocked -- shocked I tells ya! -- when I told them I had no religion. I accept that Christianity is alloyed to their very core, deeply imbedded in their culture, though in umpteen different denominations. In my day it was mostly Methodist and Mormon, now mostly evangelical fundamentalist. But there is still recourse against such haranguing from Old Testament Christians in Australia & New Zealand. In the past day or two a very highly rated professional rugby player in Australia was called out by his club and fired for breaking the code of conduct for players repeatedly and posting online that all homosexuals, fornicators, atheists were going to Hell. Some of his fellow Island rugby professionals have come out supporting him. Hope that same medieval crusading spirit isn't on its way here in a big way.

1

Good point. I understand why you have such an impression from this forum. I think it’s a minority that have those strong feelings, but they are the ones who post virulent anti-religious statements.

I understand it in a way because I was very angry for a long time myself. I think the anger is there to prevent the person from being dragged back in. In many cases the negative side of religion might be exaggerated in order to self-justify the decision to leave.

I see it like the US Declaration of Independence, a flowery and high-flown letter with exaggerated and trumped up charges against the King. If I had written the letter it would read: “Your Majesty, we the representatives of your American colonies do, by this letter declare that we are independent states, no longer under your jurisdiction. We see independence as being in our best interests, and we are prepared to fight to defend ourselves. We wish you well.”

Oh good grief.

2

It was never that dramatic for me . I just stopped going to church . And over time decided I liked it that way . Then , after awhile , and some thought , I was glad I wasn't going anymore .

2

You have to remember the US was populated by people who religious beliefs were so extreme they essentially for kicked out of Europe. A lot of that still hangs on 400 years later.

GwenC Level 7 May 19, 2019

Yes, as a "former" American (you never really leave an American upbringing behind) I have been a steady student of US history from the Pilgrims/Puritans on. Yet, logically (and I know this isn't an adjective that applies in religion) the influence of a hundred or so surviving settlers at Plymouth Rock should have been lost about 395 years ago; should just be an object of Halloween dressing-up today. And to think the whole idea of resettling from England was to establish religious freedom. Instead, the opposite -- intolerance -- has been magnified over the centuries. My impression is that Roger Williams/founder of Rhode Island(?) was infinitely more liberal than most religionists today. As a kid, how naive was I? -- I used to think sons and daughters of the Mayflower/Revolution were a bad joke. How very, very destructive.

3

The ‘divide & conquer’ strategy is unfortunately alive and well. And note, it’s mainly happened within the USA ..as most civilized nations drift further from religion. ‘We’ may be, too, but religious vs. non has become a divisionary and rallying tool for ... you guessed it, the Republican Party.. So they use it!

Really, all religions are but varying sized cults.. Some may care to bicker over semantics, but that’s all they are - the largest most successful cults. All having started the same way - usually within some guy’s sick head. So yes, they’re by design going to punish those having figured them out..

Varn Level 8 May 19, 2019

Yes, it's disappointing to us internationalists to see someone even as "progressive" as Bernie Sanders regularly ritually nodding to Christians, Muslims, you name it. i.e. Freedom of religion -- as long as you pick one!

4

Yes I am still going through that with my ex. Even after a year of being separated he wants me to defend my non belief.

I know, your post prompted me to post. Hope the ongoing trauma you're obviously suffering has a chance to settle down in time. I'm just lucky I had an easygoing Catholic mother and an absent easygoing Baptist father; and that we were kicked out of Catholic school here in Auckland for not being able to afford the fees. This was 1960! -- being just too poor for the likes of God's spokespersons on earth. My mother was a nostalgic Irish Catholic, and my older sisters and I would have done better than we did being educated by the nuns. But eventually she realised we were no worse off out of the Church on balance. (I'm so aware these days about the benefits of church solidarity -- I'm constantly amazed how many Pacific Island mormons with no connection to US heritage are able to leave new Zealand here and connect with USA residency and benefits I've never enjoyed!)

@LisaL81 -- Stay the course. Chin up and carry on.

Have you suggested that maybe he should defend his belief first?

@amymcmxcii no because he’s all too happy to do that and he will talk for as long as it takes for me to give up and tell him he’s right, there is a god. And the longer I resist the more angry he gets and then the name calling starts.

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