There are a few on this site that think that capitalism is the end all be all. They treat the subject as if there is only one model for which capitalism can be based. They are wrong.
There are multiple models for which capitalism can be practiced. The present is a rapacious, cannibalistic system, which is shortsighted and detrimental to its own existence. The present version being practiced presently in our country is predatory, similar to the model practiced in the early part of the 20th Century during the age of the Robber Barons.
At the time the misplaced business motto of the time was, "survival of the fittest". The practice was known as Social Darwinism. It was neither Darwinistic or social. They borrowed the saying, but had little understsnding of what it meant. In fact it was contrary to Darwin's Theory. Darwin's model looks at an organisms (or business) fitness for the environment for which is living. Social Darwinism eventually lead to the Great Depression. We see how well that model worked.
Just like now, it was shortsighted and over predatory. Had it been truly based upon an evolutionary model, it would have been long sighted, seeking to perpetuate a good thing forever into perpetuity, ad infinitum.
Instead todays model focuses upon getting in, getting as much as you can in the shortest time and getting out. The model, as being practiced, doesn't care what they do to the market they are part of. They exert hostile takeovers regardless of what it does to their industry long term. Then layoff the existing workforce and bring in outsiders, or downsize and lay off the existing workforce. They could care less what it does to the community.
They are willing to destroy their own market, just so can they reap their profits (aka. Predatory snd cannibalistic). They spend little energy or thought in regards to what they are are doing to the future, either to their own industry or the opportunities for future generations.
If their model were truly orgsnic and based upon the evolutionary model it would look very different. First, it would look long term towards the future. This means that it would seek to provide an economic environment in which all stakeholders benefited. By giving less profit to shareholders and reducing or eliminating exhorbitant CEO bonuses. That money would be pumped back into the company and the employees. Owners would still get a larger share than the employees (after all they invested the time and money to start the business and deserve a greater share of the profit). Its just that everything is scaled back. Owners, CEO's, and shareholders take a little less, employees get a living wage and health benefits. Employees protect investors by assuring the quality of their work, and management protect employees by assuring their ability to survive comfortably.
I'm not opposed to capitalism, just the present version. As I read the posts put out by the ardent supporters of capitalism on this site, I see a pattern. First they're predominantly white. That's significant. That means they probably had choices on their way up. The fact that they made good choices on their way to their capitalistic nirvana is laudable. But. they by and large ignore the fact thay they had choices that many in this country do not. Despite what they think, this country is not a Meritocracy. Whites benefit disproportionately compared to other groups in this and previous versions of this societies. Many groups never have the chance due to their socio-economic status, where they live, or other mitigating factors. That is not just some left wing, feel good bullshit, it is the truth. These people like to assuage their guilt by insisting everybody has a chance to pull themselves up by their proverbial bootstraps. Its a myth. Its a rationalization and a denial of the social structure that exists in this country.
There will always be have mores and have less, but the gap doesn't have to be so large. Narrow the gap, and bring more in by taking just a little less. More benefits and the entire system remains "fit" for a much longer period of time.
3
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
7 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.The present road of capitalism is the road to human extinction. We are already in the sixth great extinction due to our economic system and we will most probably follow those that we have already condemned.
Absolutely no system that governs humankind is correct if it destroys the principle that we all need to live, our natural resources.
JackPedigo
Level 9
June 1, 2019
1
"There are multiple models for which capitalism can be practiced. The present is a rapacious, cannibalistic system"
what else would you expect when a bunch of socio/psychopaths are running the show. financial, political, everything.
a texas economist (galbraith) wrote a paper in which he was forced to the conclusion that even though the power structure know that this short term gain will result in long term pain & it's even against their own interests, especially when the future of their descendants is considered, they can't help themselves.
no empathy--true socio/psychopaths.
callmedubious
Level 8
June 1, 2019
2
A rare point of agreement between us.
I don't know. I think capitalism is inherently flawed. It's based off of exploitation. It's all about having a surplus, and to get a surplus you must pay your workers less than what their production is worth. Some say it's tantamount to slavery or just a level above slavery. I have a question. I'm having trouble phrasing it though, so I hope you can get the gist. Are sociopaths/psychopaths so prevalent in being leaders in capitalism because of their mindset or does capitalism inherently promote that type of thinking? Or is it the perfect marriage?
@Piece2YourPuzzle ,
i suppose you could say it's the perfect marriage.
an individual who becomes a CEO would have no second thoughts about laying off many loyal, long term workers in order to improve short term performance in which he/she could make big gains with their stock options.
Capitalism, as we know it in this nation, has run amok, and become untenable.
The system needs an overhaul.
KKGator
Level 9
June 1, 2019
2
way too late for an overhaul.
the scale has tipped way too far towards unbridled, robber baron type capitalism.
there will be a total crash & burn & then it will go too far the other way.
human nature prevents an easy adjustment to a mean. it's always violent.
@callmedubious I am oddly okay with that.
@KKGator ,
so am i but i most likely won't be here.
You should read the creature from Jekyll island if you haven't already. However fucked you think the system is, thats giving it the benefit of the doubt.
Happy_Killbot
Level 7
June 1, 2019
0
It may be fucked, but I know its better than many that exist throughout the world. To criticize is not to throw the baby out with the bath water, but to point out flawed thinking and things that could be bettet.
@t1nick You should definitely read that book. Complaining is good, but you should be careful what you wish for.
@Happy_Killbot is it called Jekyll Island?
@t1nick "the creature from Jekyll island"
Its about the history of the federal reserve and how our monetary system actually works.
@Happy_Killbot I'm reading the authors synopsis online now. Thanks. I know there is a lotvof funny business regarding the Federal Reserve.
@t1nick Some would say the federal reserve is the funny business.
So far as material goods, humans are as well or better off as they have ever been. We are literally immersed in food, clothing and shelter. Besides that, we work relatively short hours and the hardest labor is done with the help of machines. I see little reason for grievance.
The economy world-wide has advanced through hard work, creativity, group cooperation, and trading. It is true that some people are at a disadvantage, but there are far fewer disadvantaged people today than there used to be, and there are more avenues for advancement today.
I’m not so sure that those robber baron types have much effect on general welfare. They might amass more money but money is not true wealth. Gambling is a zero sum game, but true wealth is created through hard work, creativity, risk-taking, and good management. One person’s wealth is not the cause of another person’s poverty.
Maybe there could be a special tax on income not tied to productivity, but it would be hard to determine, and I doubt if such a tax would result in greater general well-being. Most wealthy people became wealthy because of their contributions to society.
WilliamFleming
Level 8
June 1, 2019
1
With all due respect, I disagree with all your points and assertions except maybe the last. Your measure of well off isn't consistent with most facts and statistics I've come across. 5% of the population in this country has more wealth than the 70% lowest combined. I do not call that equitable.
I teach in marginalized communities, and have for 30 years. My anecdotal evidence alone doesn't jibe with your assertions. When is the last time you worked two or three jobs just to put food on the table for your family, and thats not filet mignon either. That situation is not an exception to the rule, but the norm outside of white America.
Whites have controlled the economics in this country since before 1776. Minority mobility has be hampered and obstacles thrown in their path for generations to keep them from aspiring to the next level. Yes our life has bern made easier with technology, but it has also lengthened our work time. Easier to get more done, therefore can put in more hours to get even more done. Most professional people in America are workaholics. They put in longer hours because they can and they find work often more satifying than their home life.
So with the 70% of the lowest population working two to three jobs, and the professionals being workaholics by choice, I guess everything is just hunky dory. Hmmm.
@t1nick Lots of non-white folks live all around me. Most of them appear to be living well, or at least getting by without working multiple jobs. Some appear to get by just doing occasional day labor. Maybe where you live conditions are different, but I can’t believe that nation-wide 70% of the population works two to three jobs.
I think that the main point of our disagreement is that we have different definitions of wealth. You either have enough to live on or you don’t. If you have enough to fulfill your expectations you are wealthy. Having a trillion dollars in assets adds nothing to your well-being, nor does it take away well-being from others. Money is just an accounting system. I once calculated that if Bill Gates’s assets were equally distributed to the world’s population each person would receive enough money for a cup of coffee. More to the point, giving a million dollars to every person would not accomplish a thing. True wealth is created through hard work and imagination.
@WilliamFleming
I have no interest in distributing wealth just for distributing the wealth. I have a well developed work ethic and so do those that need to hold two to three jobs to get by. They have to.
I get the feeling that your world experience has been limited to those like yourself. Not that you haven't been exposed to other lifestyles, but your incredulity to believe how many are near or below poverty level reinforces this observation. I get the feeling that you do not know what it means to have no substantial choices. Yes employment is up in the country, but do you realize what kind of jobs that primarily comprises? Most of the new jobs that contributed to thst dtatistic have been low paying service industry without any health benefits or employee protections. Many employers hire employees for just under fulltime so they do not have to pay benefits and health.
A report on NPR (yes liberal but so much more honest than 90% of popular media) this morning that about 10 billion dollars a year is stolen from immigrants and unregistered employees by unscrupolous employers. All because they know these people have no recourse to get their pay.
@Antidronefreeman
Then why is your writing so poor? Not to criticize, but your grammer, occasional spelling, and written style is tortured and chaotic
@Antidronefreeman
Morgan, Is that why you are living on rice and a $10 chicken every month as per your admission on a previous thread. You said you live on $100 a month on food. You make more than a Senator???? Hmmm Something doesn't seem right.
are you aware that this wonderful capitalistic system which you praise has only been possible b/c of the incredible deficits resulting in a national debt that can never be repaid by conventional means.
it can only result in a financial armageddon. just a matter of when.
@callmedubious
I am aware, as well as aware which party and which President is driving ever more deeply into the red.
@t1nick I know you aren’t calling for wealth redistribution. I was trying to define real wealth vs. money wealth. If you want to generate real wealth in your community maybe you could start up a new venture of some kind. That would be more productive than casting an envious eye upon the portfolios of certain individuals. You’ve already been adding wealth to your community through your teaching you know. You’re doing your part.
You are talking to an old cotton picker here. I’m not totally out of touch, but yes, I’ve been very fortunate. Our parents taught us about hard work, saving, and investing. For every advantage there’s a disadvantage though, and vice versa.
Vietnam was said to be one of the poorer countries, yet when I was there I was enthralled with their style of living. They might have been money-poor but they were living very well IMO. Life is not just about money.
@t1nick, @callmedubious I am very worried by that debt. Don’t blame it on the free market system. Blame it on ignorant greedy politicians, with GW Bush leading the pack.
@WilliamFleming
For once we agree. My father was blue coller and I grew up understanding hard work from him. I recapped truck tires for the company my dad worked for through high school. I am of the Vietnam era and was in the last draft call, but did not have to go. I respect those who did.
On another note, Im not envious of people who have portfolios better than my own. Its just that I have chosen to work for and with peoples less fortunate myself. My first undergraduate degree was in anthropology. I grew up in an hispanic community and came to love diverse cultures, so it was a natural gravitation for me.
@WilliamFleming I disagree, the paradigms that accompanies this version of the so called free market system is diseased. Corrupt politicians are just a symptom.
@WilliamFleming
Here is an article that one of the members (THHA) of our site just posted. Worth a read. Relevant to our thread.
Half of Americans Are Effectively Poor Now. What The?
America’s Collapsing Because it’s the World’s First Poor Rich Country. By. Umair Haque
@Antidronefreeman
Hmmmmm?
Capitalism has defeated communism, now it feeds on itself.
onthefire
Level 7
June 1, 2019
0
No communism defeated itself. The old Soviet Union overextended itself to the point of diminishing returns. Was fighting wars on too many fronts, broke its economy (Sort of like we are doing today- hmmmmm). Reagan helped by goading them on, but their own arrogance and belligerence defeated them, not capitalism.
meh. like all the other ideas there must be a balance. we need some aspects of regulation and social spending as well. same as with diversity and democracy - you have a mixture to take advantage of the strengths of both sides. unfettered capitalism is dangerous and ends up contrary to public interest like we are encountering now in this caste separation.
JeffMesser
Level 8
June 1, 2019
2
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
Share this post
Categories
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.