My late partner's brother and sister-in-law- paid a lot of money to get a special visa to come visit us (from Vancouver BC) when she was dying. They insisted she not participate in the Death with Dignity program and return with them to (their small) apartment in Vancouver because that is where 'family' was (but no doctor or community or DwD program). To my relief she sent them packing after less than 2 days. Luckily, she was, apart from her brain tumor, is full possession of her mind and body. It has been shown that in 2/3 of eventual death scenes the family talk the suffering member into hanging on until the last minute. I have said and believe if one truly loves another one should do all that is necessary for the other not oneself.

@JackPedigo ,
glad to know your sister had a painless, dignified death.
my mother died from a brain tumor in Victoria, BC 17 yrs ago. she went into a coma & they disconnected her feeding & hydration tubes. it took about 8 days before she died. it would have been easier for my mother & her son & daughter if she had had access to assisted suicide.
assisted suicide is supposed to be available now in canada. but some of the criteria are too stringent for many ppl to meet & they would prefer to go sooner. but as always the Fing religious nut-cases are making this issue as difficult as possible for the majority.

@callmedubious It was my partner (wife). Canada now has DwD although, I am sure it is honored differently in different parts of the country. My partner was lucky in that the tumor only affected her speech center and little else. She was alert and active 90% of the time. Unfortunately, it doesn't effect others the same and some do have serious issue. I recently read that next to the speech center of the brain is the center for understanding. When this is affected the person loses their sense of understanding and, so, may not be able to comprehend the DwD program and would be ineligible. The program can't deliver good results for all, only a lucky few.

Thanks for the comment.
The Death with Dignity laws have been written in order to prevent such things. The rules are strict and it took us over a month to get something done that should have been accomplished in 17 days. Anywhere along the process can be slowed by one person who disagrees with the process. In the meantime the suffering continues. Here is one published letter I wrote. Check out the link at the bottom. [sanjuanjournal.com]

We should learn from history but, at the same time, not let history trap us.

BTW I lived in Germany 15 years. My uncle fought with the Wehrmacht on the Russian front and was captured and sent to a Siberian Gulag for 5 years. I had neighbors who also fought with the Wehrmacht (one in France and one with Rommel in N. Afrika - he was sent to a camp in Texas). I have a degree in European history and understand many of the horrors of the Holocaust. It should send a loud message but it seems, more and more, it is being used as an excuse.

@JackPedigo yeah well after you've researched assisted suicide for a year and a half as I had to come back and we'll talk about it but couching any argument in exclusionary terms like "our" right-to-die programs isnt a good start. And no, the laws do suggest that there is a point where people should ask to die...and once you allow judges and psychiatrists to determine if you're "eligible" it's no longer YOUR right.

@JackPedigo [de.wikipedia.org] … I take it that you read German: Sterbehilfe vs Euthanasia ...

@lerlo Unfortunately, in this age we are more and more losing our individual rights. There is rightfully concern that someone may take advantage of a family member for personal gain. It has happened more than one thinks. In the Death with Dignity ruling, as I have experienced it is up to one's family doctor to make the final decision. Yes, a consulting physicians signature is needed but, if they support the law they often go along with the family physician. O can only speak from experience.
Where would you suggest we start? We all have our ideas but it always seems others (the religious) have their own opinions which often counter ours. The group, "Final Exit Network." [finalexitnetwork.org] has ideas that show, in the end, it is our right but we often have to take it ourselves.

@lerlo, @PontifexMarximus I have not. Is there a copy in English? My Deutsch is moderate but often complex ideas require and deeper level of comprehension.

@JackPedigo The deutsche version explains in some detail why Sterbehilfe (assistance in dying) is the preferred label. Euthanasie is avoided because the Nazi used it as euphemism for (mass) murder.
A translation cannot reflect that adequately.
Still throwing "Why do so many people continue to fall for this 70 years after the fact and in light of what is going on in Israel." into your initial statement deflates your argument.
Remember: You were arguing about Jewish religious interference in a legal matter in New Jersey.

@PontifexMarximus Words have different connotations in different languages. I am wondering what the word is in Switzerland? We used to have a car here called a Nova. This meant no go in Spanish. We cannot change words because they have different meanings in different countries.

I used the holocaust because this was the excuse used by the Rabbi lawyer. It was real and happened and was a real horror. Lessons need to be learned but when the victims use the term while mistreating the people they were supposed to share the land with it seems to have lost some of it's meaning. The issue should be a lesson not an excuse.

Can we change the subject?

@JackPedigo well … A Japanese university changed its name because of the meaning in English.

[brandinginasia.com]

The Jewish Rabbi lawyer who is speaking out against the program, for one. Using the holocaust as an example, to me crossed the line even more. Maybe I should stick to my criticism only to Christians and leave other religions alone? All religions are fair game on this site, or so I thought.

@JackPedigo all criticism is fair … but I just didn't get what it was all about. The link didn't open. I finally got the info. However, your comment "Why do so many people continue to fall for this 70 years after the fact and in light of what is going on in Israel." is perhaps not the best way to present your criticism.
I understand that some people get annoyed at the overuse and abuse of the holocaust horrors. And the laywer using this analogy is not doing his community a favour. It is true, however, that the Nazi used the term euthanasia ... but they committed arbitary no voluntary euthanasia => assassination on a massive scale.
By bringing in Israel you certainly deflate your argument to the point where it seems to be just another antisemitic rant.

@PontifexMarximus Thank you for your honest comment. I was told my opening statement was misleading and changed it with apologies. However, I disagree about the Israel part. I had a Jewish friend that renounced his religious mores because of what is happening in Israel and there is now an attempt at a boycott and many Jews are a part of it. To criticize Israel is not antisemitism but anti-Zionism.

Just because the Nazi's used certain terms should not mean they are no longer valid. The Netherlands and Switzerland have euthanasia programs without any connection to the Nazi's. It was also said Hitler was a vegetarian and anti-smoker. Should we all become meat eaters and smokers because it was a part of one evil person's persona? The problem, I see, with the holocaust is it seems to be a constant reminder of what was once done to a people and now it seems an excuse to mistreat another group by the said people. On this site it has been said that too often abuse is the gift that keeps on giving. The holocaust should send a message not give an excuse.

@JackPedigo Thank you for your detailed response … just a quick remark.

You: "To criticize Israel is not antisemitism but anti-Zionism." My comment related not to a very legitimate criticism of Israel's despicable actions. Which would not necessarily constitute anti-Zionism, but the fact how you through this initially into the mix.
You were commenting on a religiously driven initiative regarding some state matter.

I suggest you grab a copy of Shlomo Sand's "The invention of the Jewish people.

Yes … the holocaust should be a warning.
I have no problems with the term euthanasia though in Germany, because of what happened during the Nazi dictatorship, the term is largely avoided.

@JackPedigo Are their any unjewish rabbis?

@JesseThompson There are good and bad people everywhere. Forming opinions about an entire group of people based on the beliefs and actions of a few doesn't help.

@JesseThompson If someone is bad, they're bad, period, I'm not saying they're not. But I'm of Jewish descent, so are you implying that someone like me is also bad just because of that? That's what lumping everyone together does, and that's a dangerous road to go down. I don't see where you're going with this unless you're just trying to be right.

I was advised of my poor wording and have changed it. I am very sorry for the mistake. It was a post I made just after seeing the link. I should have given my posting a little more time and reflection. It was not supposed to be about the Jewish community only another aspect of religion interfering with our secular government. I feel all religious groups are up for criticisms.

@JesseThompson Okay, I see your point. Maybe you're not aware that Jews in the US are not naive, they know there are Jews, particularly the ultra orthodox, who spout a lot of prejudice. Many ultra orthodox even feel that reform Jews like how I was raised aren't "real" Jews because they're not "religious enough." It's sort of a given that most secular Jews don't appreciate the ultra orthodox, but unfortunately all Jews seem to get lumped together -- ie, consider Trump's awful comment today about Jews voting Democratic betraying Israel.

@OwlInASack i get the picture...but, you know that is not from my personal experience. Where I grew up, we were very poor and my daddy took rabbits down to our ‘colored town,’ and sold them. I can never remember saying or doing things that degraded them...we were all trying to survive is how it seemed to me. And another little interesting ‘tidbit,’ I heard the words ‘Jew him down,’ and thought that was just something that came from the ‘back woods people’...it was way into adulthood before I knew that it referred to Jews. Note, ‘back woods people!’ That would refer to Appalachian people as I knew them...ignorant and backwards! Which described the majority of them! And I was one of them, growing up! Maybe, we are making ‘statements’ that sound global...that should only refer to a few?

@OwlInASack ...’resilience,’ yes! My family could only scratch out a living with odd jobs...my mother only had 7th grade education and my dad had none! He did not read or write and worse had difficulty functioning in society! But, I am grateful, if not for them, I might not exist!

@OwlInASack it is good to appreciate less, as we never know when it might be thrust upon us! It is harder to teach appreciation, when it appears an ‘overflow,’ is available!

You are right and I guess that little expression was what caused so much hard feelings. I will go back and rephrase it. Thanks R.

@OwlInASack Right not all Jews are the same. I hate what Israel is doing to the Arab community.

@Freedompath Funny but this reminded me of my German uncle. He fought in the war and immigrated to the US. He always complained about his 'Jew' doctor. I once asked him if he disliked him so much why did he go to him. He didn't seem to understand and simply said because he was a good doctor. That same doctor once told him he could not help him if my uncle kept smoking he would die soon. My uncle (in his 70's) came home, threw away his cigarettes and never smoked again. He lived to 94. Sometimes one simply can't stop saying things they have said hundreds of times before even though their way of thinking has changed.

My late, mother-in-law once showed me how to cook Brussels Sprouts. She said she knew because they were called 'Krauts' because they knew how to prepare cabbage.

My late partner did and I have signed up for a willed body program. A lot was done in this community because of her choice and a lot of people were made aware of the program. I have became a spokesperson here on in our community for the Death with Dignity program which is a part of the endoflifewa program. [endoflifewa.org] Sorry, but I really get my back up when I see people spouting nonsense against the program because it is always based on some cultural or religious ideas and we all know how valuable (not) that is.

It did mention the orthodox Jews that were behind this. We hear of the Judeo-Christian nation when it serves us but the actions still show how the Jews are vilified by the Christians.

It seems to be the norm with them. You missed my series on this and my letters to our papers. At the end I said these people can't wait to meet Jesus but not just yet. What galls me is the holocaust ploy. Still playing it and many fools are falling for it. Now it's used to actually extend suffering.

@JackPedigo ,
same old "everybody wants to go heaven but nobody wants to die." bunch of chicken shit hypocrites, imo.