The writings of the "New Atheists" are certainly not meant to give you a warm and cuddly feeling. It is all so dire and bleak. Dawkins puts it quite bluntly:
“In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference” (Dawkins "River out of Eden" 1995).
Not much joy or meaning here. I might as well start drowning my sorrows in alcohol before I go to Belgium to have myself put down.
If there is something I learned in my life : Without some sort of religiosity, spirituality or transcendence, all is cold and flat and without purpose. Be a realist and your best friend will be lady Melancholia.
Matias, are you okay? You don't sound okay.
He’s still making posts. Maybe he was joking.
@WilliamFleming I just learned about the assisted suicide there. I don't understand. It sounds so alarming.
Yeah I could probably stand to calm down. Take up a new hobby. Knitting or something similar.
Please don’t go to Belgium.
I'd love to go there on a brewery tour, and not to drown sorrows due to a lack of supernatural mysticism, but to happily imbibe some doggone delicious brews.
@AlPastor Well sure. I’d love to drink some of their beer. But Matias is talking about going there to have himself “put down”. Matias is my very favorite person on this site and I don’t want him put down.
No supernatural mysticism is needed—just awareness.
@WilliamFleming What is the "put down" saying mean? I am not up on a lot of current phrasing and how it's used.
Supernatural mysticism? What is that? Are you attempting to speak derisively of belief in God? Please don't.
What awareness? Awareness of what?
@Flowerwall “Put down” is to euthanasia or kill—what you would do to an animal whose life was about over. I guess it’s legal in Belgium to euthanize humans.
I am one of the few people on this site who does not speak derisively of a belief in God. I do not think of God as supernatural however. I lean toward thinking that our true selves are one with universal consciousness. That is the awareness I was talking about.
@WilliamFleming I don't know what my problem is. I lean toward atheism one minute, am at heart an agnostic, but then I believe in God, or feel I'm starting too. This makes NO SENSE! I almost prefer going back to the past where I was a steady atheist because at least I knew what I believed then.
I think hearing "supernatural mysticism" that term it sounds like someone who is oblivious to the factual world, so it doesn't sit well with me. Just talked to some people the other day who relayed having supernatural experiences and I think, "Who am I to say?" But that seems illogical.
@Flowerwall You exhibit a lot of strength and courage to be so open about your struggle.
My response to life is that belief or disbelief are of no significance. At heart nobody really knows. The only rational response that I can see is awe, appreciation and reverence, along with total and abject bewilderment in the face of the staggering implications of conscious awareness.
Slapping a label on one’s self is not useful IMO.
@WilliamFleming I am not strong or courageous just thoroughly bewildered and trying to work through it, but I appreciate your positivity. You are right overall. I don't know that it is correct to say belief or no belief are of no significance however. I'm not sure. I need to work on this, on myself.
@Flowerwall Just remember that we are all in the same boat.
You are not alone.
@WilliamFleming Yes I was just thinking I need to not be so caught up in it. These are the same questions everyone has to work through.
I disagree. Each and every one of us suffers in some way -- big or small -- from random events over which we have no control. I have learned to say, "That is life" and pick up and move on. We should celeb rate the times when random events go right for us and the good times we have and be aware that there will be more.
I appreciate that writing as that is a very clear description of exactly what atheism feels like. But I think he's wrong.
Just because some people describe the world in those bleak terms doesn’t mean it’s really that way. It’s best to ignore those people IMO. They don’t really know what they are talking about. There’s way more to reality than meets the eye, and no one alive understands it. Physicalism is a juvenile phase of philosophical development through which almost everyone goes. Most people think their way through that immature phase and go on to a more sophisticated understanding or awareness.
We have, or are, conscious awareness, a phenomenon of startling significance and implications, and we have no idea where it comes from or even what it is. Yet every second of conscious awareness is a gift of enormous, infinite value.
We are connected by bonds of love. There’s no need to understand the physics of love. All we have to do is extend love and it will be amplified, distributed and returned a thousand fold.
You are very well-spoken here.
True, the Universe is indifferent. That means you must work, unless you're lucky. Your post seems to say that you are special and the Universe owes you something. Furthermore, since you figured out you aren't getting special treatment, the alternative is being bummed out. Or, life's shit and then you die.
My advice: man up and live as good a life as you can. We are all share the same boat.
I have never understood why atheists think that something that isn’t falsifiable can’t be true. What hubris! It simply means it’s beyond human purview. Much that has meaning can’t cleanly be falsified. Take educational research. It is thought that research in education will reveal the best educational practices. Yet students are so varied, the variables that impact the results are beyond control, and the interpretation of the resulting data is based on assumptions that cannot be falsified. I’m appalled that we think we can answer all questions with empiricism!
I've read quite a bit of Dawkins and, in context, it has never felt at all dire and bleak. In fact, most of it is more in line with how incredible the universe such as the following-
My eyes are constantly wide open to the extraordinary fact of existence. Not just human existence, but the existence of life and how this breathtakingly powerful process, which is natural selection, has managed to take the very simple facts of physics and chemistry and build them up to redwood trees and humans.
As well as messages of empowerment-
We have the power to defy the selfish genes of our birth and, if necessary, the selfish memes of our indoctrination.
The path of knowledge and understanding is what makes the title of his biography, An Appetite for Wonder, so fitting. Like Carl Sagan before him, he brings joy in learning about the universe. I do get why astrologers, mystics, and other "spiritual" people with an agenda would try to portray knowledge (real knowledge, not so-called 'revealed knoweldge' as Michael Ruse says, "Dire and bleak."
Speaking of Michael Ruse, you may have read the following page from his book, Atheism: What Everyone Needs to Know®
I knew I heard that name before-
You're thinking about it all backwards, if the universe is devoid of true objective purpose, that means there is no reason or excuse for anyone to be doing anything accept what they want.
If the world has absolute meaning, you don't get to decide what that meaning is, you are a slave to reality.
If the world does not have absolute meaning, you are free to do as you please. The world is a blank book and you have a pen.
Why not write something down?
@Matias If the universe turns out to be deterministic, then the evolution of physics is your purpose. To do what physics says you will, that is the meaning of it all. Slaves don't decide what the master wants. Nowhere near as consoling as "go to the good place" or "maximize karma"
In fact, neither of these things solve the problem. If the purpose of this life is " do good thing, go to the happy hunting grounds for the rest of eternity" then what is the purpose once you are there? If you can assign a purpose to an infinite afterlife, why can't you assign one to a temporary one?
Of corse none of these things have to be the purpose. Maybe it is to eat a raspberry danish on a monday. Maybe the only way to get into a speculative afterlife is to be the sole survivor of human kind, and however that happens is irrelevant. Of course there doesn't have to be an afterlife. Suppose when you die you go before some creator, and he says, "The meaning of life was to never step on a break in a rock or concrete, you (did) or (did not) fulfil this purpose" then you fade into oblivion regadless.