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So, this happened yesterday:
I blew up at my wife when our 5-year old daughter said that God made her sister Autistic.
It's true that her sister is Autistic, but I was furious that she would allow our daughter to think that. After I calmed down, I tried to apologize to them both and explain why I had a hard time with that. My daughter is fine but my wife just doesn't want to talk about it now. She thinks as long as it's not hurting anyone directly then who cares?
I'm still mad about it. But I also recognize if I can't have grace for them I might end up undermining my position by reacting angrily. I have a sneaking suspicion this won't be the last issue I get pissed about, so I'm trying to approach it in a more detached way, where I don't blame them for saying something fairly innocuous without parsing through the deeper implications of what it is they're saying.
However... WTF?!
How do I explain everything wrong with this in a nice way? I don't want my 5 year old to think that there's a God who is ok with randomly changing human brains to function in a way that is factually more difficult then a non-autistic brain. It's ludicrous!
... and yet she's 5, so I don't want her to think she can't express this opinion without daddy getting angry.
Help! 😂

Nakedterror 6 Oct 1
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32 comments

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7

My son is autistic. He's absolutely amazing. But my religious family decided to pray that God would take away my sons autism and heal him.

I was furious too. I yelled at my 60 year old father and explained to him very harshly that autism isn't an illness. Just like he (my father) was born with brown eyes and ten fingers and a dislike for spicy food, so too was my son born with a unique mind.

He began to understand but I abhor how religiosity pollutes and miseducates, and insists on inserting God into everything.

6

So I just read your bio.....
Man dude you are in a very tough spot.

Your wife is religious and you’ve just recently found out there is no god. That’s going to be a lot for your wife to handle and it’s going to create confusion for the kids.

I would advise seeking out help from a psychologist. You are going to have to look around so you can find someone with the ability to remove their personal beliefs from the picture.

These kids are Likely going to get very confused with mom and dad disagreeing with each other on this topic.

Good luck man
This is going to take some inner strength and patience.

if your wife can become aware of the conflict by virtue of a calm discussion not triggered by something like what you described -- it's hard to do it on the spot, but you can plan a meeting! -- maybe it won't be as bad as you think. how religious is she? is she someone who just accepts that there is a god by rote but doesn't make it the center of her life, or is she hell-bent on being heaven-bent? that can make a different and of course the former will make things easier than the latter. but if you can calmly sit down with her and ask her what SHE thinks should be done about the conflict, especially with regard to your younger daughter, you may get a positive response. be sure to assure her that you don't need an immediate answer but would like her to think about it.

g

@genessa
He grew up Quaker
That’s pretty hardcore religion
Burning witches at the stake hardcore

@darthfaja really? quakers are notoriously peaceful! you are thinking of the puritans.

g

@genessa
Hahaha
Bad example on my part, I was trying to be funny
But it backfired by lack of thought on my part

What I was trying to imply, poorly
Is that is an Uber old school religion and it is highly probable his wife is as well

Most likely, her husband Being an atheist is going to be Very tough for her

@darthfaja maybe. or maybe a calm discussion will appease her, especially if he is clear that her thoughts on the matter, well, matter. she is human, after all!

g

@genessa
🖖🏽

@darthfaja okay i don't know for a FACT she isn't vulcan, but i think the original poster would have mentioned that detail were it there to mention.

g

@genessa
We can safely deduce she’s not due to her logic. Just as fair to say he’s likely not a Klingon with one outburst.
Haha

@darthfaja haha my point exactly! (although it's not easy being green!)

g

@genessa I'm the spock in our relationship.

Quakers never burnt anyone for "being a witch." There are two types of Quakers in the world. The evangelical ones, relatively recent development, and traditional Quakers of the FGC and conservative types. One has "churches," the evangelical type and one has Meeting Houses. Evangelicals have sermons and pastors, FGC and conservative ones do not. I used to be a Friends General Conference Quaker. I still admire the pacifism and simple living I was part of. I'd never be an evangelical one as they are little different from southern baptists.

@Theresa_N
I know! It was an attempt at humor

@Theresa_N i never could understand how richard nixon could justify his actions and still be a quaker. then again, trump claims to be a christian, so.... you know, if there ever had been a god, he'd have killed himself by now anyway.

g

6

There is nothing wrong with anger it is a human emotion. It sounds like frustration. When it comes to a child wait until you calm down a bit and explain autism in more realistic/ biological terms.

There is when it’s expressed in front of a five year old child. That is more damaging than any religious discourse.

@Geoffrey51 so no one should ever show anger in front of a five-year-old child? that is not only ridiculous, it's impossible! people get angry! hiding anger sets a terrible example for the child. better to show anger but then reassure the child that anger and hatred are not the same thing. HOW one expresses anger is also important.

g

@Geoffrey51 Disagree... kids will encounter anger whether from peers, classmates, siblings or others in their life... they should be able to see it modelled for them in a healthy manner... allow it to be seen as something that occurs but then apologize or take appropriate actions for how one reacted in a moment of passion.

@demifeministgal spot on!

@Geoffrey51 I don't have children myself, but if I did I would raise my child in the real world where anger, hurt, frustration and negative things/emotions are explained and accepted as a normal human response.

@genessa yes your probably right!

6

One thing I have learned in my 65 years on this planet, when one loses their temper and yells at others, no matter the subject, no one is going to listen to anything you have to say. You say you are new at being an atheist, so slow down and think about how you come across to others who are "believers". Everyone evolves in their own time. You can't force others to believe as you do no matter that you are correct in believing there is no god. You want others to respect you, so you have to show respect for them as human beings. I'm not saying respect their religious beliefs, respect them as people.

6

Personally, I'd start with "god isn't real and fictional characters don't "make" things
happen". That should be good enough for a 5 year old, for now.
If your wife won't talk about it, and refuses to accept that it is indeed harmful, I'd be shooting down that nonsense every chance I got.

I have no patience for anyone who allows their children to be indoctrinated and
encouraged to believe in things that don't exist.
Kids learn Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, and the Easter Bunny aren't real.
God is NO different.

I don't blame you for being angry. If anyone was encouraging my children to
be deliberately delusional, I'd be pissed off, too. Spouse or not.

There is nothing wrong with being angry about it. It's perfectly
normal, and it's a natural emotion.
Contrary to what others may think, anger IS acceptable.

Good luck to you. You're going to need it.

5

Wow. Thanks for the informative/entertaining/thought-provoking/well intended responses.

I'm trying to address multiple responses at once here, but please know even if I disagree with some responses I appreciate all of them. It's why it's easy to enjoy this community.
When my wife and I got married 17 years ago, we were both very much believers. I realized I was atheist Jan 2017. I came out to her 3 months ago.
She is still a believer, and every time we try and talk about this issue seriously it seems to become heated. Sometimes because of me, sometimes because of her.
I don't think I have anger issues, but I've never bothered to find out. I'm pretty laid back and conflict averse. I like to diffuse tension with humor or sincere deprecation when its warranted. I was raised in a Quaker church. No, we didnt burn witches, but I understand how you confuse them with puritans. I liked it because it taught pacifism and humility that felt "right" for lack of a better word.

To be clear: I did blow up and I felt terrible. I sooo wanted to go back and handle it differently. I felt like a caricature of an angry atheist. I overreacted to what probably should have been a benign exchange with my wife in front of our kids.
At the same time, I didnt feel passive in this instance. I want my kids to have a firm grasp on reality in respects to religion. Beyond religion, I want them to be as imaginative as possible. We tell stories in our house all the time, we run around and howl like banshees. I cherish their childhood.
Right now, I can't help but look at religion as brainwashing. My knee jerk reaction was in direct response to that outlook.
Part of the joy of childhood should be learning the truth about how the universe and everything in it works, from brains to stars and everything they can see.

Thanks for weighing in, and thanks for the thoughtfulness in so many responses

I was joking about burning witches 🤣
I don’t think you have anger issues either

The only thing I would say to this is that I believe you should get a counselor so they can advise you how to move forward in regards to the children and mom and dad having a more unified front with religion. I can’t imagine it is healthy for them to have to chose which of you is right and which of you is wrong. It puts them in the middle and that doesn’t seem good, but I don’t really know.

@darthfaja sage advice. I agree. My wish is for them to simply feel like it's ok to choose for themselves. My wife at the moment does not agree. Still working on that, lol

@Nakedterror
Honorable

5

I would simply present following question to my daughter: Do you really think that a loving god would deliberately create people with problems that make life difficult for them? My hunch is that she would mull over that one for years.

When she's twelve maybe. Not at 5.

@skado It is never too early to get a child to think about serious questions.

@wordywalt
I don't disagree with the sentiment, but a 5yo brain isn't capable of making meaning from such abstractions. Science says we develop that capacity at age eleven. So it would just be meaningless jibberish to a 5yo, if not perhaps confusing.

I can remember that as a young child I was presented with thoughts and questions I did not comprehend, but the questions stuck with me for more than a few years, and helped to guide the development of my thinking.

4

Jesus Christ
Guy says he gets mad one time and a bunch of you get all touchy feely with the “you have anger issues...”
WTF people

There’s only one thing important here that’s missing is your wife religious?

If she is then you two need to have a sit down on what’s the plan for your daughter. If both of you contradict each other it’s going to cause a mind feck for your child.

Niw if you’re both atheist well that’s just an odd thing to say but it’s harmless

And just between us men brother
Man anger is scary to some people
Tuck that shit inside the best you can
But you certainly have the right to express emotion.

It’s fine to be mad sad angry happy or any emotion we feel. It’s also great for your daughter to see them and for her to see how you manage your different emotions.

@maturin1919
That’s your issue that does not automatically make his example an anger issue nor does having an anger issue make you an authority in the topic.

@maturin1919
Actually I won’t back it up 🖖🏽

4

For now, since they're so young, just say (maybe, what do I know) that's not true honey. We aren't really sure why she's autistic. But we love her just the same anyway. You can have a more mature convo about it down the road. And I completely stand by you NOT allowing her to be indoctrinated or having her mind warped like that!

4

saying that god did it then later explaining how "god" is just a personification of the universe is the superior solution. she doesn't need to know about NOTCH21NL gene sequence irregularities in chromosome 1 that lead to various organic brain abnormalities and placing the child on the spectrum. don't be so angry about it.

3

I think you need to first take a deep breath and calm yourself before responding. Since you’re dealing with someone so young, even if she says “god” gave her sister autism, she may not fully understand what she’s saying. She might even be repeating something she heard someone else say.

Rather than getting angry, it’s important to look at these as teaching moments. If your wife believes and you don't, you can say that, too, to help her learn she can think for herself.

I myself might say something like: Mommy thinks there’s a god. Daddy does not. We don’t agree on that. But one thing that’s for sure is no one gave your sister autism. It’s just the way she was born, just like you were born with [brown] hair and your brother was born with [blue] eyes and Mommy was born with [freckles].

Yeah, I kind of tried to say that to her. But right now I'm the only one suggesting there's more than one opinion. It's become like an eggshell topic

3

Your wife does have a point. Having an imaginary friend really does not matter much.

@MissKathleen No. Not healthy.
If the imaginary friend selectively makes certain people suffer, then they are not merciful. The child should eventually realize these conflicting beliefs.

3

When you've calmed down , explain that God is a man made fabrication . but remember at five , she most likely still believes in the tooth fairy and Santa Clause .

When I found out there was no Easter bunny, all my beliefs died. I guess god did too.

2

Do you get upset when your daughter asks Santa for a present? How about the Tooth Fairy when she loses a tooth?

The best thing you can do is to take anger out of it! The other best thing you can do is to make sure your daughter is exposed to all thoughts and possibilities and let HER decide as she gets older. You telling her that there is no god is almost as bad as someone telling her there is.

Lead her to water... But never force her to drink!

Great reply, thank you

2

Just say "God is not real, sweetie. Some people just like to believe there is someone making decision controlling our lives. But it's not real. We don't know what caused your sister's autism and that's okay. It okay to not know how or why, but it not okay to lie to ourselves or others and think that we do know. Okay? "

You don't have to be mad, you just communicate like you would any other topic.

It's important to talk to her and tell her your beliefs. Your beliefs are just as important as your wife. Let your daughter know exactly what how and why you think the way you do, but don't push her in any direction. Let her figure it out and make her own decisiion. But be honest about your thoughts just as religious people are honest about theirs.

2
  1. Do not get angry
  2. Do not get angry
  3. Tell your wife that she is hurting someone, herself.
  4. Look for help in youtube or google, seen many great videos on the same subject with kids.
  5. Did I say do not get angry?
2

Getting angry wasn't wrong. The way you expressed your anger sounds like it was maybe not the best way to handle things. Also, you need to figure this out without depending on changing your wife's mind. She has the right to believe what she wants and if her beliefs are important to her, she will find ways to teach them to your daughter even if you forbid it.

I would suggest working through your anger and teach your daughter to think critically, rather than try to make sure she learns certain things. You can even do the same with your wife. Ask questions rather than state your opinion. Counter self-righteousness with teasing irony. Do it right, and you'll make your wife think through ideas rather than just try to defend herself from your ideas.

Thank you

2

I would think of god as an arbiter of random chance. It is random chance that made your daughter autistic. Why not call that god?

Word baggage, I guess. No one else around her will have that same approach because everyone around her has a very specific definition of god

2

As I have read, women tend to respond more to how something is said than to what exactly was said, and that can be a real kicker. Children, on the other hand, respond to stories, imagination, and become insecure if exposed to to much anger, contentiousness. Were the rubber really hits the road is, if you try to use force . . . and I am not speaking of physical force . . . to influence these two, it will fail.
.
One person suggested a psychologist, and I would agree, if that it possible, because it would help get your mind set in a way that could attack the issue in a better way. Even on here, you may get some inspiration.
.
When I run in to a problem that I know might prove to be difficult to solve, I generally look for a way to develop a frame of mind going into the problem that will work best. Often that frame of mind is seeing it as a challenge ... it puts your mind above the problem in a way, because instead of dealing with the problem as a fear or drudge-work, it becomes a puzzle to solve. This situation requires a lot though, because you cannot JUST see it as a puzzle to solve, because it also has to be done both diplomatically and delicately.
.
My take on this could be complete rubbish, since I have never been married, but then again, I have the advantage of an outsider's view . . . . it may be that the way to overcoming this obstacle is to first be open about it all, but at the same time find ways to be more subtle, maybe even hide that emotional stuff when this kind of thing happens, and tackle the problem from a more . . . . might I say seductive manner? What I mean by that is, as I mentioned earlier, children adore fantasy, stories, imagination . . . find via the internet or via suggestions from people in the know (I'm not one of them, most likely) the type of stories, themes, that support agnosticism / atheism, and use it to change your daughter's views more subtly . . . It is highly unlikely she would respond to pure logic at this point, it is far to crude in her view, my bet is.
.
With your wife, is has to be somewhat similar, likely more subtle . . . it is like planting ideas . . . but very indirectly, subtly . . . remember when you were in high school, and you were told about this really "cool" thing that just got everyone's attention, and everyone started to mimic or talk positively about it? This is the kind of thing that can change opinions, but it has to be done subtle like, almost like a salesman, but not so brassy and open, and possibly with more affection. What you want to do is make that event of the anger episode disappear from their consciousness, replace it with something more intriguing . . . . attack the issue in a much more subtle way . . . are you up for the challenge?
.
Emotions are surface phenomenon . . . crude. Read Sun Tzu . . .
.
The Art of War . . . . 'The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.'
.
Obviously we are not talking about an enemy of course, unless you frame the enemy as the ideology itself removed from the connection they have to it.
.
This seems like a problem that is difficult, the Gordian Knot, so to speak . . . but because Alexander The Great was in the correct frame of mind to solve it, it turned out to be child's play . . . . Your advantage is that you can first buy yourself some time by pushing the emotions aside, and then dealing with the problem as Sun Tzu might . . . . avoiding battle, using intellect to conquer . . .

2

I would say it sounds like you have rough waters ahead over the next few years. Good luck.

2

You probably need to sit down and have "The discussion" about how you'll both answer questions for the kids. Particularly if religion comes up.

Did you daughter come up with that on her own? Did she hear it from another child? Or from her Mom? - If it was from Mom I'd find that problematic.

Autism is a difference in the brain. Not something sent by an imaginary being.
It's not punishment - it's a difference.

It's how you approach that as a family that will matter in the end. I can see why it was triggering. I'm sure you understand that yelling isn't the answer.

My wife takes her to church, I'm sure that's where she heard it

@Nakedterror Oh dear! That would do it.
You might want to look into atheist books written for five year olds? A way to combat the church with story time.

@RavenCT great idea!

2

Are you normally angry, or is this specific to this incident?

Not really. I get angry at thoughtlessness, but I'm actually kind of laid back.

@Nakedterror well, apologize to your wife and child. That's a start. Then think about what triggered the response. While I have always been a non believer, I grew up that way, if you have recently left your church then I imagine you are under stress. And you have a neuro divergent child which also brings it's own challenges. Hug your little one and tell her you made a mistake. Children are very forgiving!

@GreatNani thanks. I did apologize to both of them more than once right after the argument. I brought it up again last night to my daughter to see how she was feeling, she seemed ok.

1

Some people are born with brown eyes, some blue, some people are great at math others are better at art. There aftee many different ways to be human, many different ways to be born. Your sister was just born a different way than you. Can you think of a way you're different from me? Isn't it fantastic that humans can be born so many different ways? Mommy believes god made your sister this way. I don't have proof of that, so i believe everyone is born exactly how they should be, but no one made it happen.

I like that

1

In what way is it more difficult for an autistic brain to function?

I only can see how she struggles to express herself sometimes, I don't know how she thinks. To her it's normal.
To me, it's simply frustrating. Sometimes my frustration makes her more frustrated. That is the difficult part, I guess

1

Is your wife atheist?

No. Lifelong christian, as was I until a couple years ago

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