@makeitgood - would it be a failure if a person’s deconversion resulted from reading The God Delusion or similar? If not, do you see any difference in the two scenarios?

They lack critical thinking because most were told what to think as a child.

I disagree. The impetus of my deconversion began with a stupid movie, then a book. Boom. It was a rush of clarity at first, then anger for being lied to for so many years.

I agree. I also feel like I put alot of time and effort to get this point, reading, watching documentaries, contemplating, analayzing and observing. I feel that other person should do the same and not rely on my efforts for a shortcut to find truth...

@geoffrey51 no, as mentioned before, I’m in a debate group. Imagine Christians and Skeptics going toe to toe - voluntarily.

@DallasKimmerzzz Sounds fun. Is it reasoned or inflamed debate.

@Geoffrey51 it can get somewhat heated - especially pro-life/pro-choice subject - origin of morals or ethics etc. To be honest, the only reason in the group comes from the skeptics, but I’m biased of course!

@DallasKimmerzzz The problem with debate groups is that you are using logic to convince the other side you are right and they are wrong. The problem here is that the religious will argue based on emotions, not logic and it is almost impossible to convince someone that their emotions are wrong. That is why I do not argue religion with "true believers." It is a waste of time and energy. I challenge them to read the entire Bible and not just bits and pieces. I challenge them to read the Jefferson Bible. I tell them that science does not have all of the answers, but neither does faith.

@SageDave emotion vs logic ain’t that the damn truth! . You mention “read the whole bible” as a tactic, but this particular group, full of fundamentalists, calvinists, evangelists, apologetics - lawd - are quick to throw in the presupposition argument or “you’re taking the verse out of context” bs. I’ve never seen so much candy-coated turd rebuttals in all my days LOL. They are also quick to say all answers are found in the Bible and with faith. Koolaid anyone?

@DallasKimmerzzz I have th KJV and NIV Bibles on my smartphone and read the entire section to those who say I am taking something out of context. Or to prove that they are taking things out of context. It's a hard sell and I only "fight" when I know I can make headway. I also have th Jefferson Bible in case they are interested.

@SageDave the debate group I refer to is on FB. If you want to see what I’m talking about, I’ll give you the info

@DallasKimmerzzz Please. I would be interested in reading the arguments.

@SageDave I'll inbox the link

@DallasKimmerzzz Thanks Dallas. I will read some of the threads and see if the group is worthwhile. So far, however, I am finding the arguments a bit confusing and non-directed.